Not to take anything away from Barkley and I am sure some will disagree but LT2's numbers from 18 years ago seem better to me than Barkley's today. With the advancements in sports science, nutrition, workout regimens, growth hormone in the meat, etc. of course the elite prospects today are putting up better numbers than the ones from almost 2 decades ago. There will be kids playing college football this year that weren't even born yet when LT2 put up those numbers.
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RB Saquon Barkley, PHI (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
Ultimately, he will disappoint many. Not because he's not good, but because the hype is out of control. I'm not sure anyone could live up to the hype surrounding this guy.
kutta
Footballguy
I traded for the 1.01. My expectations aren’t really that out of whack.
As long as he catches like Marshall Faulk, runs like a combo of LT/Barry/Jim Brown, scores just a few more TD’s than the Greatest Show on Turf did, and puts up twice the total points Gurley did last year, I’ll be totally happy
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
I'd like him to throw a few TD passes too, let's call it 5-10.kutta said:I traded for the 1.01. My expectations aren’t really that out of whack.
As long as he catches like Marshall Faulk, runs like a combo of LT/Barry/Jim Brown, scores just a few more TD’s than the Greatest Show on Turf did, and puts up twice the total points Gurley did last year, I’ll be totally happy
DJackson10
Footballguy
I think that's where I stand on this too. He's not gonna live up to the hype. Same reason why people think Lebron never lived up to it. He was crowned the next MJ, Wilt and he only has 3 titles and a loosing record in the finals. flip flops teams and honestly I think if he doesn't stay with Cleveland and he goes elsewhere and win he'll destroy any legacy he has as he'll be known as the best player who was just a hired mercenary who had to micromanage everything. My fear for Barkley is he doesn't do something people expect him to do and they'll start saying he sucks and what have you. The hype on this guy crossed overboard awhile ago.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
I dunno. The hype is there every year with the top rated rookies. Barring injury he should be a pro Bowl RB. It’s pretty obvious he has the stuff you need to be elite, probability is in his favor.
-OZ-
Footballguy
He needs to cure cancer at halftime and beat Chuck Norris.I traded for the 1.01. My expectations aren’t really that out of whack.
As long as he catches like Marshall Faulk, runs like a combo of LT/Barry/Jim Brown, scores just a few more TD’s than the Greatest Show on Turf did, and puts up twice the total points Gurley did last year, I’ll be totally happy
DJackson10
Footballguy
It's more or less expectations people have. What are you expecting out of him in his first year? The NFL competition wise is much different then playing at college IMHO and playing cupcake schedules like PSU has had for yrs. I'm not saying he won't be good. I just think theres a lot of lofty expectations I think many players wouldn't stand by. The hype for him is out of control. I don't remember a prospect being this hyped in the NFL for awhile. This is the sort of thing I see in the NBA more so because of how weak many of the drafts are so the top guys get hyped up more. By no means is this a weak NFL class though. Just think the hype in comparison to other leagues reminds me of those NBA drafts.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Concept Coop
Footballguy
What expectations or hype are we calling out of control and unrealistic, specifically? I don't recall seeing projections being floated around.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
My expectations for his rookie year? I’m not expecting pro bowl numbers as a rookie, that’s for sure, although it’s definitely a possibility, I would never expect that type of production immediately. I expect him to be a 3 down starter right away and barring injury, I would also expect low end RB1 or higher end RB2 production as a rookie. All that said, I don’t necessarily count on rookies in dynasty no matter how large the hype.
My career expectations for him are loftier for sure. I’m expecting perennial pro bowl type production.
nittanylion
Footballguy
According to teamrankings.com, while PSU's SOS in 15-16 was 54th, it was 12th in 16-17 and 5th in 17-18. Just sayin'...
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Not really understanding the thought process behind the Giants drafting him. Barkley is a win now player. Why trade JPP if you're trying to win with Eli for 1 or 2 more years?
NY should trade the pick or draft a QB. If they take Barkley they're just going to waste his best cheap years behind a mediocre offensive line with a QB that isn't much of a threat to beat you by himself. Then they run him into the ground while breaking in a rookie QB after a few more years from Eli?
NY should trade the pick or draft a QB. If they take Barkley they're just going to waste his best cheap years behind a mediocre offensive line with a QB that isn't much of a threat to beat you by himself. Then they run him into the ground while breaking in a rookie QB after a few more years from Eli?
NYRAGE
Footballguy
Any chance of the Giants talking up taking Barkley to try to induce Cleveland into taking him first to get their QB to slip to #2?
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
It makes sense for them because they have so many picks and are a rebuilding team. The Giants can't seem to decide what they are.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Other than trading away JPP (and he's been in decline), all their moves have been more in the "win now" bucket:
- they did not trade Eli away;
- they traded picks for Alec Ogletree;
- they signed a 31 year old LT to the biggest OL contract in the league;
- they signed a 30 year old RB...
Eli, with better protection, getting OBJ and Sheppard back and having another year of Engram's development means he doesn't have to beat teams by himself (and he's still capable with some support) - Barkley would add another dynamic weapon along with OBJ to the offense. If the defense returns to 2016 form (and last season had a lot of infighting), I don't think it's unrealistic for the NYG to be back in the playoff mix. I have also read/heard that some in the organization think they already have Manning's heir on the roster in Davis Webb. Some see him on par with the top QBs in this class.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Barkley projects to help in the passing game just as much as the running game. He’s not your father’s RB; he’s a weapon. Look at what Kamara did for the Saints - arguably their second most valuable player last year. Look at Bell, DJ, and Gurley.
Drafting Barkley is a different proposition than drafting Fournette, or even Zeke.
Drafting Barkley is a different proposition than drafting Fournette, or even Zeke.
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You need a healthy dose of Vic Ketchman.
And understanding basic concepts like draft value.
And understanding that when you're leaving the best player on the table for your opponents to take that they are getting better than you.
History holds a long list of teams that left better players on the table because "they didn't need them" and it rarely turns out well. I'm forever thankful that Ted Thompson held true to draft principles and took the best player available (Rodgers) in his first ever NFL draft. Worked out pretty well, eh?
The NFL is a landmine of injuries, both season-long and career-ending. You will never regret taking the best player available. Not only are you going to need him sooner than you think, but you're getting the best long-term value out of the draft pick. NFL teams are built on drafts, so that's the best way to make your team the strongest possible over time. You never leave value on the table for your competition. It's common sense, and I bet you $1,000 that you won't find an NFL GM that says otherwise.
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
That's a really good article. Saquon sounds more cocky than he used to, but not necessarily in a bad way.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He was seen in a Barber shop wearing a Giants hoodie-sweatshirt a few days ago.
FWIW, Eli has a no trade clause in his contract.
After all the vitriol thrown at the previous regime for benching Eli last year it's understandable that the new GM and Coach were given an ultimatum to make it work with Eli if that is indeed the case. Barkley makes a ton of sense given their moves to date. It may not be the best play long-term instead of taking a chance at another franchise QB, but the Giants in particular seem like the types that want to win now and worry about tomorrow... well, tomorrow.
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jwb
Footballguy
I was convinced they were going QB, but after more thinking, I'm not so sure. If you draft a young qb, that means Eli gets this year, and that's it (if he even gets the entire year). Somehow, that seems an unlikely scenario - Eli could easily have 2-4 solid years left, and that gives plenty of time for Webb to develop.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Eli hasn't been good in like ever and now he's old.
higgins
Footballguy
Eli....
(1) Is the same age (or younger) than several other quality QB's out there.
(2) Has been playing from his back the past couple years as their OL-play has deteriorated.
You don't seem to be able to accept that taking Barkley make the most sense (which is your right) -- I believe the opposite as follows:
- Does the team believe it can win with a 2-time SB MVP? I don't know, but I certainly can understand why?
- Do you remember when the last regime horribly bungled his benching and the uproar over that? Do you want the new regime to intentionally do the same thing? What kind of locker room are you going to have at that point? What of the rookie's not even close to being ready -- what kind of spillover will that have?
- If they believe they can make a run, you give them the best weapon the O can have, a true "gold-jacket-er" as Gettlemen said. That weapon (running-game AND passing-game) can also help the defense by keeping them rested.
-- How potent can that O be with last year's 5th best TE (as a rookie), a more experienced Shepherd, a healthy OBJ, and a much better LT?
-- Do we know how Chubb would fit their scheme if we picked him instead? I don't but their trading him tells me it was some kind of combination of (a) scheme-fit, (b) diminishing skill-set, and (c) disastrous pricetag <-- especially for next year when they're going to try to get OBJ signed!
-- I totally get that when you're in position (#2) to get your next franchise QB, you should totally consider that
BUT that's the only reason to not take Barkley. IF you don't care about the rookie QB's and IF you think you can win now...taking Barklet clearly makes the most sense to me....especially when you consider the potential uproar a benching Eli-starting-Eli-rinse-repeat cycle would look like.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Come on.
These are his stats in just his last four seasons - which don't even include some of his best years. Keep in mind, last season his o-line was terrible and he was literally throwing to street free agents during most of the 15 games he played.
2014 4410-30-14
2015 4436-35-14
2016 4027-26-16
2017 3468-19-13
He also did win two Super Bowls.
Pipes
Footballguy
Best player according to whom? Obviously in cases like Aaron Rodgers draft it was clear he shouldn't have fallen but I would bet a vast majority of the time, ask who the best player available is for any given pick, and you'll get dozens of different answers. Biases come into play when ranking players so seldom is there truly an obvious best player available.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
If the Giants sign Dez, they are in win-now mode and it makes sense for them to draft Barkley at #2.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
DocHolliday
Footballguy
jwb
Footballguy
If drafting a rookie qb, any GM would sign up for Eli Manning's career every time.
15-17 year guy. Never miss a game. Consistent top 10. 2 super bowl MVP's.
Avery
Footballguy
I don't think it's necessarily polar - "win now" or "rebuilding" - although both those scenarios definitely happen as in trading picks for current talent or visa-versa.
I think it's possible to do something in between to be competitive now while rebuilding a team. Dez could be a part of a "in between" plan depending on the sort of contract he would accept.
