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RB Saquon Barkley, PHI (2 Viewers)

Jello_Biafra said:
No matter who they took, there would be risk. Just less risk with Barkley.
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I agree but think of it like fantasy football. If you draft a RB with the 2nd pick and he finishes as RB12, it was disappointing but it was still a solid pick. You got production that would have been difficult to replace in the late rounds of the draft or free agency. If you took a QB in round 1 and he wasn't a top 1 or 2 QB, it would be devastating because QB production is so cheaply replaced. If Chubb or Ward or Darnold are B level DE/CB/QB, it is a win taking them at 2 because good DE/CB/QB are very tough to find and when they do come around, they get paid. With RBs, only the A level guys might get paid. If Barkley isn't an A, it's a failure of a pick. 

 
Ilov80s said:
I agree but think of it like fantasy football. If you draft a RB with the 2nd pick and he finishes as RB12, it was disappointing but it was still a solid pick. You got production that would have been difficult to replace in the late rounds of the draft or free agency. If you took a QB in round 1 and he wasn't a top 1 or 2 QB, it would be devastating because QB production is so cheaply replaced. If Chubb or Ward or Darnold are B level DE/CB/QB, it is a win taking them at 2 because good DE/CB/QB are very tough to find and when they do come around, they get paid. With RBs, only the A level guys might get paid. If Barkley isn't an A, it's a failure of a pick. 
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Not sure I get your point. If anyone picked that high is a bust, then you could view it as a wasted pick. Not sure why RB matters.

 
Jello_Biafra said:
Not sure I get your point. If anyone picked that high is a bust, then you could view it as a wasted pick. Not sure why RB matters.
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Yes lets just imagine these players future performance gets rated like a Madden score. A 100 is Reggie White, a 0 is a guy that never gets signed or drafted. A 50 is average guy, a decent backup but someone totally replaceable. Barkley has the biggest RB contract in the NFL so he needs to be a 90+ or else they are really overpaying. With a DE, even if the players if a 75, he was a good pick because he is getting paid on par with how the free market would pay him anyway. No RBs get the kind of money the 2nd pick gets but lots of DEs get paid like that. Barkley has to be one of the top 3 RBs on the NFL or it was a wasted pick.  As long as Chubb turns into a top 20 DE, it was a good pick. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Barkley has the biggest RB contract in the NFL
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Not on a per season basis he doesn't.

Bell, Freeman and McCoy are higher paid. Jerrick McKinnon will be paid virtually the same and Fournette, Lamar Miller and Zeke Elliot will only make marginally less.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Not on a per season basis he doesn't.

Bell, Freeman and McCoy are higher paid. Jerrick McKinnon will be paid virtually the same and Fournette, Lamar Miller and Zeke Elliot will only make marginally less.
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This is a matter of semantics, I grant you that. However, Barkley has the 2nd most guaranteed money ever for a RB. Peterson was the only RB to get a deal with more guaranteed money. This info is courtesy of Spotrac which seems legit to me. 

 
Ilov80s said:
This is a matter of semantics, I grant you that. However, Barkley has the 2nd most guaranteed money ever for a RB. Peterson was the only RB to get a deal with more guaranteed money. This info is courtesy of Spotrac which seems legit to me. 
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Yeah I think it's a bit disingenous to say that his contract is the 2nd largest RB contract ever, and then later specify that you're actually talking about the 2nd largest guaranteed portion of a contract ever.  It is very much not the 2nd largest RB contract ever.

And that's even before we consider that this is kind of how the NFL works.  As the salary cap rises contract values are more and more inflated.  What's surprising is that it's only a few million more than #2 pick Reggie Bush got as a rookie more than a decade ago when the cap was $60 million lower.  Rookie deals really used to be out of control.

 
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Ilov80s said:
Important point for sure. I mean Jimmy G has played less than a season and he already likely made more $ than Marino, Montana, Young and Elway combined. As for the point about Eli's money, they are stuck paying  $68 million for Eli +2nd round pick no matter what. Tying up $68 million for a staring QB over 5 years and a back-up QB for 2 years is pretty normal for the NFL right now. 
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It's crazy to compare contracts of players that last played in 2000 (Marino)  It is not hard to understand that the salary cap has increased greatly. Of course someone who gets a big contract now is going to have been paid more than the Hall of Famers of a different generation.  It is a horrible comparison and just lazy.

 
Ilov80s said:
Right which means he has the 2nd biggest RB contract in NFL history. I love him but there is no room for error with the pick. If he is anything but David Johnson 2.0, it's a bad pick. 
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I think making the financial observation means very little. Salaries go up every year, nature of the beast. There will be lesser RBs making more than Barkley in a few years just like there are mediocre QBs making more than Brady and Rodgers now. 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Yeah I think it's a bit disingenous to say that his contract is the 2nd largest RB contract ever, and then later specify that you're actually talking about the 2nd largest guaranteed portion of a contract ever.  It is very much not the 2nd largest RB contract ever.

And that's even before we consider that this is kind of how the NFL works.  As the salary cap rises contract values are more and more inflated.  What's surprising is that it's only a few million more than #2 pick Reggie Bush got as a rookie more than a decade ago when the cap was $60 million lower.  Rookie deals really used to be out of control.
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I don't think it is disingenuous at all. I think guaranteed money is the best real measure for the size of a contract. I am done with this because we will just agree to disagree. I hope I get him in fantasy because he is so good. GL Giants and Barkley owners. 

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
I think making the financial observation means very little. Salaries go up every year, nature of the beast. There will be lesser RBs making more than Barkley in a few years just like there are mediocre QBs making more than Brady and Rodgers now. 
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Who do you think have the 3rd, 4th and 5th all time highest guaranteed contracts? It's not who I would have thought. It's Chris Johnson, Fournette and Reggie Bush. Most NFL contracts have been rising year after year, but RB contracts have not been rising. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Who do you think have the 3rd, 4th and 5th all time highest guaranteed contracts? It's not who I would have thought. It's Chris Johnson, Fournette and Reggie Bush. Most NFL contracts have been rising year after year, but RB contracts have not been rising. 
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Yeah but the pendulum has swung back in favor of RBs. 

 
Ilov80s said:
I don't think it is disingenuous at all. I think guaranteed money is the best real measure for the size of a contract. I am done with this because we will just agree to disagree. I hope I get him in fantasy because he is so good. GL Giants and Barkley owners. 
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Rashaad Penny tied for highest contract in NFL history!!!!*

*Contract size determined by percent of contract that is guaranteed.

In all seriousness, it makes no sense to say, for instance, that LeSean McCoy's $40 million contract was smaller than Barkley's because it had less than $31 million guaranteed even though he's already actually earned $35 million of it. 

Just by the nature of 1st round rookie contracts being fully guaranteed they are always going to be abnormally out of line if we focus only on the guaranteed value of the contract.  The same measure says Miles Garrett is the "3rd highest DE contract ever".  Pretty much any top 3 pick other than a QB is going to instantly have one of the highest guaranteed portions of their contract for their position.

 
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FreeBaGeL said:
Rashaad Penny tied for highest contract in NFL history!!!!*

*Contract size determined by percent of contract that is guaranteed.

In all seriousness, it makes no sense to say, for instance, that LeSean McCoy's $40 million contract was smaller than Barkley's because it had less than $31 million guaranteed even though he's already actually earned $35 million of it. 

Just by the nature of 1st round rookie contracts being fully guaranteed they are always going to be abnormally out of line if we focus only on the guaranteed value of the contract.  The same measure says Miles Garrett is the "2nd highest DE contract ever".
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No Penny will be guaranteed about $10 million. While it is still a lot, it's 9th most guaranteed amongst current NFL RBs.

 
Ilov80s said:
No Penny will be guaranteed about $10 million. While it is still a lot, it's 9th most guaranteed amongst current NFL RBs.
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You mis-read the fine print.  I was just pointing out that you can pull one random variable out of a contract to make it say a lot of different things.

Regardless, the meat of the post was in the second half of it.  By the nature of an increasing cap and fully guaranteed rookie contracts, top 3 rookie picks outside of QBs are always going to have big numbers in the guarantee column relative to the other players at their position.

 
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smbkrypt24 said:
It's crazy to compare contracts of players that last played in 2000 (Marino)  It is not hard to understand that the salary cap has increased greatly. Of course someone who gets a big contract now is going to have been paid more than the Hall of Famers of a different generation.  It is a horrible comparison and just lazy.
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I found it pretty interesting :shrug:  

 
Will Hernandez is a bad man in the best way. Giants have two new OGs and the best LT they have had in years. Still (big) questions at C and RT (and depth) but things are looking better for Barkley getting some room to run and time to run routes. 

 
smbkrypt24 said:
I thought i helped put it in context with the rising salary cap, especially since ‘00, but if we can’t understand that concept there is no point on moving this conversation forward.
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Ok.

I just said I thought his comment was interesting. I don’t have much more interest in talking much more about it.

 
Love their draft apart from another asinine fish nor foul QB.  2-5 round picks on QBs are wasted picks, absent some kind of character concern letting them drop, IMO

 
He just went as the 2nd overall pick in the dynasty startup I'm in today (16 team, best ball PPR IDP). I had been hoping to get him at 7.

 
ILUVBEER99 said:
I'd take him #1.  Tried to trade Elliott for him before NFL draft and was rejected.
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Yeah, definitely seems like the type of player that some people are willing to go to any lengths to get. As it happens, that league I mentioned is actually two 16 team leagues that meet in the playoffs, so there are two drafts going and two copies of each player (though you can only trade within your 16 team league). He also went at 1.02 in the other player pool draft. 

 
What we learned about the Giants after Week 2 of OTA practices

Excerpt:

SAQUON BARKLEY WILL NOT BE USED LIKE A TRADITIONAL RUNNING BACK

The Giants have no plans to line Barkley up in the same formation on every single play in 2018. He will not be used like Rashad Jennings, Orleans Darkwa, or Paul Perkins. Barkley will be featured on screen passes, as a running back out of the I-formation, single back, shotgun formation and he will even be split out as a wide receiver. The Giants continued to throw more on Barkley’s plate in OTAs with extra reps as a receiver in the slot. Barkley was unguardable and the Giants linebackers had so much trouble that he caught multiple touchdown passes from Eli Manning.
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kutta said:
At this point my expectations are so high that a Marshall Faulk career would be a dissapointment...
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If he can avoid the ball cancer, sky's the limit.  Then again, imagine had Faulk done the same - probably would have had 2-3 more great years.  

 
Dr. Dan said:
anyone trading Barkley in dynasty? what are you getting?
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I thought about selling but there’s not anything I need right now. If someone made me a decent offer I’d listen. With everything I’ve been seeing they would have to start with at least two 1s.

Tex

 
BigTex said:
I thought about selling but there’s not anything I need right now. If someone made me a decent offer I’d listen. With everything I’ve been seeing they would have to start with at least two 1s.

Tex
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I’m not selling. My price would be so high that no one would do it. I gave up DJ for the 1.01 and 2.01 a few months back. Being a Cards fan, DJ is a guy I loved owning. There’s no way I’m not hanging on to Barkley to see what he’s got. 

 
Dr. Dan said:
I have a guy asking me what I would want for him. I told him I'm not even sure I want to say because it would be so high
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"Your whole team."

You don't trade talent like this.  You don't trade Adrian Peterson.  You don't trade Faulk.  You don't trade David Johnson.

 
Otis said:
"Your whole team."

You don't trade talent like this.  You don't trade Adrian Peterson.  You don't trade Faulk.  You don't trade David Johnson.
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Yup. You trade all three of those guys together to acquire Barkley.

 
Dr. Dan said:
I had 2 people ask me what it would take to get him, so I was just curious. I kind of figured if someone was willing to pay the actual price for him, maybe I'd consider it. I'm learning that anyone I give an honest answer as to what the price would be, they act like I'm a complete loon. Which may be true in some aspects, but not with regards to my price for Barkley. I am basically asking these guys for their best 1-2 players at each position for Barkley, and even then I'm not sure if that would get it done. 

It's very exciting what this guy may end up doing in the NFL... a lot of hype but in a day where most NFL RBs are talking about splitting time as the pass catching back or what not with another RB on the roster, it's hard to find a guy who can do it all and will be the "bell cow" in the offense. As practices continue, my price goes up on this guy. I'm not sure there is a single offer I would take. 
 
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They would ask for the same if the tables were turned.

The reality is that we are baking in our aversion to selling him into our asking price. His real value is certainly lower than what we are asking but we really don't want to sell so we ask a price we know will get rejected.

 
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