Record player guys -- Talk to me Goose, about record players (1 Viewer)

[OC Zed]

Seriously wedded to this tube amp. Can one of you audionerds tell me what speakers would work well with it?

 TIA 

As someone who went down the vinyl rabbit hole a couple years ago and now has a vintage Motorola tube console and a couple Sony turntables with various other components from the 80s, I would suggest you start small/mid-range and work your way up to the overall sound you want over time.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the sound of the tubes from the Motorola, but I also get an entirely different and probably more enjoyable sound from my mid-level Sony player and assorted components.  Yes, I really want to work my way up to nicer components - including a fantastic tube pre-amp - at some point, but I'd rather make those buying decisions over time after really figuring out what I want.

Think about it this way... you've been spending at least the last 15 years listening to music digitally almost exclusively.  Your ear isn't accustomed to analog.  After a while, you'll start to pick up more and more nuances in sound that you hadn't heard before.  And that experience, along with the types of music you want to listen to, will guide you to the right system for you.

Buying a $3k+ system now will probably sound great, but it's akin to the guy who suddenly gets into wine and starts splurging on a 100+ bottle fridge and filling it only with $150+ bottles because Wine Spectator gave them a good score.  Ya, it's good quality stuff... but it might not be the right stuff for you.  And the fun of it is in the process.

 

[Otis]

@OC Zed you’ll also be proud of my for redecorating my office/den in mid century modern style. I just bought a sweet Brady bunch looking leather chair off west elm. It’s where I plan to sit while I listen to my vinyl. 

 

[Otis]

As someone who went down the vinyl rabbit hole a couple years ago and now has a vintage Motorola tube console and a couple Sony turntables with various other components from the 80s, I would suggest you start small/mid-range and work your way up to the overall sound you want over time.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the sound of the tubes from the Motorola, but I also get an entirely different and probably more enjoyable sound from my mid-level Sony player and assorted components.  Yes, I really want to work my way up to nicer components - including a fantastic tube pre-amp - at some point, but I'd rather make those buying decisions over time after really figuring out what I want.

Think about it this way... you've been spending at least the last 15 years listening to music digitally almost exclusively.  Your ear isn't accustomed to analog.  After a while, you'll start to pick up more and more nuances in sound that you hadn't heard before.  And that experience, along with the types of music you want to listen to, will guide you to the right system for you.

Buying a $3k+ system now will probably sound great, but it's akin to the guy who suddenly gets into wine and starts splurging on a 100+ bottle fridge and filling it only with $150+ bottles because Wine Spectator gave them a good score.  Ya, it's good quality stuff... but it might not be the right stuff for you.  And the fun of it is in the process.

Eh. If I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do it once. It’s not like I’m buying a 20k mcintosh setup. 3k for a pretty nice mid level system l’ll never graduate past seems like the right place to be. 

 

[rockaction]

Eh. If I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do it once. It’s not like I’m buying a 20k mcintosh setup. 3k for a pretty nice mid level system l’ll never graduate past seems like the right place to be. 

There's a point at which pricing and increased audio quality hits serious diminishing returns, that's for sure.  

 

[Otis]

BTW I have a little more context than other listeners in that I’ve played guitar for almost 30 years and in that time with all the gear I owned the one and only thing that stands out is the Mesa boogie tube amp I bought used in college. I had lots of gear that was more expensive, but never anything than sounded nearly as good. 

Tubes are where it’s at. My two experiences with them are calling to me. 

 

[OC Zed]

Eh. If I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna do it once. It’s not like I’m buying a 20k mcintosh setup. 3k for a pretty nice mid level system l’ll never graduate past seems like the right place to be. 

Fair reasoning... I'm just saying you can start lower and still have just as much enjoyment.  Otis is/was a gear hound w/his guitar equipment.  This is in the same vein.  If you really end up digging it, then you'll be on the hunt for different stuff soon enough.  And as rock action mentioned, there is a diminishing level of return in this area at some point.  

 

[rockaction]

Tubes are where it’s at. My two experiences with them are calling to me. 

Best amps I've ever heard have had tubes. 

Do it. Find reviews and your price point. Good luck, Otis. 

By the way, if you get the Project USB Debut Carbon, you probably don't need a separate preamp to drive it, though it might be recommended. 

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

You guys are posers.

I bought a 1979 Sears all-in-one stereo and a gross of TDK MA60 cassettes.  I pop one of those bad boys in, hit ‘record’ and ‘pause’ simultaneously, and then wait until a good song comes on the radio.

BIM BAM BOOM. MIXTAPE, 8ITCHES.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

She’s a woman of good and discerning taste. This should not surprise you PIXIEGUY

Seriously in that one link you posted it just sounded like some guys yelling at some other guys. It was like an Irish bar fight, or musical Black Friday. 

You’re just bitter because your celeb crush got finger-blasted by a minister at Aretha Franklin’s funeral today.

 

[Otis]

 

 

[Otis]

Ok after doing a bunch of research, here's about where I'm leaning in terms of my setup -- someone talk me off the ledge or tell me where I'm wrong:

-- Quad VA one tube amp -- $1599 -- I really love and want a tube amp sound.  Most are a fortune.  But I found this little rig that sounds perfect -- tube preamp and power amp, small form factor, supposedly sounds warm and amazing for the price point.  The reviews I've read are all glowing (no pun intended).  It won't get obscenely loud, but this is a smallish room where my record player setup will go, and I have small kids and neighbors, so I don't need mega loud.

-- Pro-Ject Debut Carbon SB turntable -- $599 -- Everyone seems to say this is the gold standard for starter/decent quality TTs.  

-- Pro-Ject Phono Box MM DC Phonograph Preamplifier -- $79 -- I believe I need one of these, to bring up phono level from the TT to be sufficient to go into the Quad VA preamp?  (Maybe??)

-- Bowers and Wilkins 600 series 686 S2 bookshelf speakers -- $549 -- honestly don't know what to do on speakers, but when I listened to these "entry level" speakers at the Magnolia store at Best Buy, I was blown away.  Kind of embarrassed after that to explain to the guy that I've been listening to music through computer speakers or the Amazon Alexa all these years    I'm sure there are better speakers out there, but these were sufficient for me.  That said, I can't seem to find these online, which is kind of annoying, so if anyone is aware of comparably nice speakers for this budget or less, I'm all ears.

Woah, looks like all-in I'll be around $3k.  Wonder if I should talk to Mrs. O about this before taking the plunge...  

Can anyone recommend a pair of speakers in the 300-500 range that would be a better match for the amp I linked?  Consensus seems to be the amp is underpowered for these B&W speakers I linked. 

 

[jwb]

Educate me!  Yes I’m open to whatever, provided it has those warm Smokey tubes. I’m imagining sitting in low lighting at the end of a long day with a Miles or Thelonious or Was record and a tall scotch. 

The two numbers you want to pay attention to on speakers are the ohms, and the sensitivity (called "efficiency" by some). I don't know too much about ohms in the scientific aspect, but the lower the ohms, the harder they are to drive. So 8ohm speakers are easier to drive than 6 ohms than 4, etc. Amps change output depending on speaker ohms (so you'll see "12 Watts at 8 ohms, 15 at 4, etc). I probably wouldn't try 4 ohm speakers with anything under 50 watts. 8 ohm is fine for you, and that's where most speakers will fall.

The big number here is sensitivity - in plain terms, that's what they do with the power given to them. The higher the number the better. Ideally, 89db+ is decent. But lower than that, and you'll be left wanting unless you up the power of the amp. I realize you don't want to crank it, and I get it, but it's more than just loud - if the speakers aren't getting much power (and 12watts is not a ton of power), they will lack even at lower volumes. The beauty of good equipment is it sounds fantastic / full at lower volumes as well. 

That IS a nice amp you are looking at, and you seem set on tubes, so I would try and find some 8ohm speakers @ 89+ db sensitivity. I have people coming over, and need to get the ribs going, but I'll try and find/post a recommendation tonight.

Oh, and on the "I'm doing this once".... maybe. But maybe not. This becomes a hobby for many, and for some, an obsession. For me, I started looking at vintage gear - that stuff that was "HIFi" in the 70's when I was a kid, and I was hooked. A few years later, I have a really nice/restored Marantz Pre / Amp, one of those awesome Denon turntables from the early 80's, some A/D/S tower speakers, etc.    

 

[rockaction]

The two numbers you want to pay attention to on speakers are the ohms, and the sensitivity (called "efficiency" by some). I don't know too much about ohms in the scientific aspect, but the lower the ohms, the harder they are to drive. So 8ohm speakers are easier to drive than 6 ohms than 4, etc. Amps change output depending on speaker ohms (so you'll see "12 Watts at 8 ohms, 15 at 4, etc). I probably wouldn't try 4 ohm speakers with anything under 50 watts. 8 ohm is fine for you, and that's where most speakers will fall.

The big number here is sensitivity - in plain terms, that's what they do with the power given to them. The higher the number the better. Ideally, 89db+ is decent. But lower than that, and you'll be left wanting. I realize you don't want to crank it, and I get it, but it's more than just loud - if the speakers aren't getting much power (and 12watts is not a ton of power), they will lack even at lower volumes. The beauty of good equipment is it sounds fantastic / full at lower volumes as well. 

That IS a nice amp you are looking at, and you seem set on tubes, so I would try and find some 8ohm speakers @ 89+ db sensitivity. I have people coming over, and need to get the ribs going, but I'll try and find/post a recommendation tonight.

Oh, and on the "I'm doing this once".... maybe. But maybe not. This becomes a hobby for many, and for some, an obsession. For me, I started looking at vintage gear - that stuff that was "HIFi" in the 70's when I was a kid, and I was hooked. A few years later, I have a really nice/restored Marantz Pre / Amp, one of those awesome Denon turntables from the early 80's, some A/D/S tower speakers, etc.    

This is a money post, all the way through the "I'm doing this once..."

You might indeed find yourself upgrading in ten years or so. 

 

[scorchy]

Can anyone recommend a pair of speakers in the 300-500 range that would be a better match for the amp I linked?  Consensus seems to be the amp is underpowered for these B&W speakers I linked. 

I know you want to just go out and buy something -- I've been there.  But I really really recommend patience and research.  Absolutely nothing takes the place of listening to various components, especially speakers.  You cannot rely on reviews - everyone has a different preference for how they want something to sound, and some folks may hate the type of tone in an amp/speaker combo that you find totally appealing.  It's not like you live in North Dakota or something -- you probably have a dozen hi-fi stores near you where you can hear alternatives.  Lots will have demo or pre-owned models that will allow you take a step up at a given price point. 

For example, I got a clearance $7K McIntosh preamp at Magnolia for $3,200.  From my main dealer, I got a $10K pair of Focal speakers for $6k after another customer returned them basically unopened.  These same kind of deals can be found almost everywhere on all sorts of levels of equipment if you're patient. 

ETA: I'll also add that getting my wife involved in the process was $.  We spent a rainy Saturday at Gramophone listening to a half-dozen speakers, focusing in-part on the kind of music she loves.  Otoh, totally worthless if Mrs. Otis doesn't share your taste.  I can't imagine Post Malone sounding great on a 12 wpc tube amp.

 

[jwb]

Can anyone recommend a pair of speakers in the 300-500 range that would be a better match for the amp I linked?  Consensus seems to be the amp is underpowered for these B&W speakers I linked. 

I know you want to just go out and buy something -- I've been there.  But I really really recommend patience and research.  Absolutely nothing takes the place of listening to various components, especially speakers.  You cannot rely on reviews - everyone has a different preference for how they want something to sound, and some folks may hate the type of tone in an amp/speaker combo that you find totally appealing.  It's not like you live in North Dakota or something -- you probably have a dozen hi-fi stores near you where you can hear alternatives.  Lots will have demo or pre-owned models that will allow you take a step up at a given price point. 

For example, I got a clearance $7K McIntosh preamp at Magnolia for $3,200.  From my main dealer, I got a $10K pair of Focal speakers for $6k after another customer returned them basically unopened.  These same kind of deals can be found almost everywhere on all sorts of levels of equipment if you're patient. 

ETA: I'll also add that getting my wife involved in the process was $.  We spent a rainy Saturday at Gramophone listening to a half-dozen speakers, focusing in-part on the kind of music she loves.  Otoh, totally worthless if Mrs. Otis doesn't share your taste.  I can't imagine Post Malone sounding great on a 12 wpc tube amp.

I will also say the budget needs to rise in light of the tube amp. Don't spend $1500 on a nice tube amp, then hamstring it with $300-$500 speakers. This isn't to say you can't find speakers for that price (especially secondhand), but the options go way up if you at least plan to spend about the same amount on the speakers as you do the amp.

I don't see Otis as a secondhand / vintage guy, and I do see him as a "buy it once" person, so yea, pay a little more now, and be happier later. "Good enough" is not what you are after here, Otis. 

eta - another thing on auditioning speakers - definitely listen to more than one, and have them instantly A/B'd if at all possible. The reason is almost all speakers sound great alone. But when you hit a button and you're instantly listening to a different pair (and then back again), that's when the different sound signatures are laid bare. 

 

[Otis]

All great stuff. Thanks fellas. 

 

[rockaction]

I know you want to just go out and buy something -- I've been there.  But I really really recommend patience and research.  Absolutely nothing takes the place of listening to various components, especially speakers.  You cannot rely on reviews - everyone has a different preference for how they want something to sound, and some folks may hate the type of tone in an amp/speaker combo that you find totally appealing.  It's not like you live in North Dakota or something -- you probably have a dozen hi-fi stores near you where you can hear alternatives.  Lots will have demo or pre-owned models that will allow you take a step up at a given price point. 

For example, I got a clearance $7K McIntosh preamp at Magnolia for $3,200.  From my main dealer, I got a $10K pair of Focal speakers for $6k after another customer returned them basically unopened.  These same kind of deals can be found almost everywhere on all sorts of levels of equipment if you're patient. 

ETA: I'll also add that getting my wife involved in the process was $.  We spent a rainy Saturday at Gramophone listening to a half-dozen speakers, focusing in-part on the kind of music she loves.  Otoh, totally worthless if Mrs. Otis doesn't share your taste.  I can't imagine Post Malone sounding great on a 12 wpc tube amp.

The bolded here is great advice. This is how my brother gets really, really high quality hi-fi at half off or something such.  Patience, research, and audiophile stores are your friends. 

And jwb nailed it. Tube amps are expensive. So are really good speakers. And just like your outfit sucks if your shoes don't fit and you can't walk, hamstringing a tube amp to lesser speakers will suck. They often tell you to start with the speakers in your budget because of the quality variance from speaker to speaker is greater when compared to the variance quality of a solid state amp to a different solid state amp, for example. (But we know you're not buying solid state and you're buying tubes, which also adds another research dimension to it.)

 

[Otis]

Let’s say my mind is set on tubes. Is this amp an ok way to go?  And if I buy it; how much more do I have to spend on “good” speakers?

 

[rockaction]

Huh. I don't know what you mean by "this amp." No link. Do you mean the amp you linked to earlier upthread, because I'll let scorchy and jwb do the heavy lifting. Those two have been spot-on with everything my brother and I have done over the years. 

 

[scorchy]

Let’s say my mind is set on tubes. Is this amp an ok way to go?  And if I buy it; how much more do I have to spend on “good” speakers?

I would really recommend checking a forum specializing in low-powered tube gear.  It's a pretty limited niche and they would be much better at being able to answer your questions. I've got a 230 wpc in my main system and still wish I had more power.  Even my tube gear is 75 wpc, so I would just be spit-balling about a 12 wpc amp.

 

[scorchy]

My dealer (Gramophone) sells Prima Luna tube gear.  Really nice stuff at the price point, and I've seen demos of this $2,399 integrated on sale for around the same price as the one you linked:

https://www.primaluna-usa.com/prologue-premium-integrated

I can't say it's "better" - I do know that tube purists would tell you that not having a DAC and all that other circuitry in it is actually a big upgrade.  Of course, that means you can't stream without adding another source component (I use Bluesound, but Sonos or dozens of others would work), so this may be getting to be too much.

 

[jwb]

Let’s say my mind is set on tubes. Is this amp an ok way to go?  And if I buy it; how much more do I have to spend on “good” speakers?

I would probably go w/ these Monitor Audio Bronze speakers. Fits your price range to a T too. I did not expect to see such efficient speakers at that price, but there you go.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LPTH92/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

Klipsch makes a decently efficient speaker in that price range too, but from what I am reading the MA's are warmer sounding (and Klipsch are somewhat known for being bright sounding - bright is the opposite of warm - think bright as treble and warm as bass). 

We haven't talked subwoofer yet. You may feel like you want one. Bookshelf speakers (any bookshelf speaker, regardless of price) usually need one, but it does depend on the listener. $300-$500 will fit the bill here, but buy that later. 

 

[cosjobs]

The 70s were the golden age of turntable. Technics, Marantz, Pioneer, and many other made great ones You can find one refurbed in the 300-500 range. Pair it with a top notch cartridge. I have  a Denon DP-47f with a Denon DL 103 cartridge. 

I buy a lot of vinyl on Discogs. Finding a seller that has good shipping rates, then looking through his offerings makes it really affordable.

 

[jwb]

The 70s were the golden age of turntable. Technics, Marantz, Pioneer, and many other made great ones You can find one refurbed in the 300-500 range. Pair it with a top notch cartridge. I have  a Denon DP-47f with a Denon DL 103 cartridge. 

I buy a lot of vinyl on Discogs. Finding a seller that has good shipping rates, then looking through his offerings makes it really affordable.

That's the one with the buttons that move the tonearm back and forth, right?

I have Denon 59L w/ a Denon 110 cart. I love those big Denon decks. I want another one, just because... 

The 70's to about the mid 80's were a golden age for everything audio. I'm partial to that period Marantz gear for the pre/amp components, but Sony, Sansui, Yamaha, McIntosh, Kenwood, Pioneer... they all made fantastic stuff. 

I'm listening to the before-mentioned CSNY Deja Vu album I bought yesterday... I'll tell ya, great audio gear is the best gift you can buy yourself. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

In case you have a problem with records skipping, just duct tape a quarter to the top of the needle gizmo. If it still skips, try a half dollar.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

I have  a Denon DP-47f with a Denon DL 103 cartridge. 

Would you recommend taping a nickel or a quarter on top?

 

[Jefferson the Caregiver]

I have a Rega P1 with an Ortofon 2M Red, it's pretty good.  Rega makes good turntables, definitely check them out.

You are going to need at least a preamp.

I plug into a receiver and that's fine as well.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Son of a...

 

[cosjobs]

That's the one with the buttons that move the tonearm back and forth, right?

I have Denon 59L w/ a Denon 110 cart. I love those big Denon decks. I want another one, just because... 

The 70's to about the mid 80's were a golden age for everything audio. I'm partial to that period Marantz gear for the pre/amp components, but Sony, Sansui, Yamaha, McIntosh, Kenwood, Pioneer... they all made fantastic stuff. 

I'm listening to the before-mentioned CSNY Deja Vu album I bought yesterday... I'll tell ya, great audio gear is the best gift you can buy yourself. 

yes/ mainly I just require that the tone arm lifts up at the end of the album.

 

[cosjobs]

Would you recommend taping a nickel or a quarter on top?

You know, that's the thing. Most LPs you can find/afford will be much more playable on an old turntable with a penny on the tone arm. Otherwise they are too scratchy/scuffed for a high end cartridge to properly track.In fact, that's what I recommend to most people wanting to get into LPs. Get a cheap setup that will play the scratchy ones you find in garage sales and see if vinyl is for you. A lot of people cannot get into getting up every 20 minutes to change records, cleaning the records and returning them to their sleeves and covers.

 

[rockaction]

I buy a lot of vinyl on Discogs. 

I've begun to. It's an interesting market and basically, its unshipped mint condition records set the Amazon market, too. 

 

[kupcho1]

Oh I’ll never recover from this burn.

Thoughts and prayers "Goose"

 

[jwb]

You know, that's the thing. Most LPs you can find/afford will be much more playable on an old turntable with a penny on the tone arm. Otherwise they are too scratchy/scuffed for a high end cartridge to properly track.In fact, that's what I recommend to most people wanting to get into LPs. Get a cheap setup that will play the scratchy ones you find in garage sales and see if vinyl is for you. A lot of people cannot get into getting up every 20 minutes to change records, cleaning the records and returning them to their sleeves and covers.

This I've never run into - haven't put change on a tonearm since I was 8 years old. If a record sounds lousy even after a good cleaning, I throw it away. This does happen once in a great while with a record store find, but I'd say 95% of what I buy used plays just fine. And if it has a little pop and click, well, that's part of the vinyl experience. 

 

[Otis]

Since I don't need major volume, I wonder how something like this would sound?

Or better yet, with matching extension cabinet.

 

[rockaction]

Since I don't need major volume, I wonder how something like this would sound?

You posted that because you like hearing collective groans, right? 

 

[Otis]

 

[rockaction]

You shrug, but it's nothing that you've explained you want. The all-in-ones usually don't give you the sound of a lovely vacuum tube.  They're generally solid-state and sound muted and tinny, usually pushing output through a built in speaker blocked by a grid.

I mean, get what you want, but you'd probably be massively unhappy with that one.  

 

[Otis]

You shrug, but it's nothing that you've explained you want. The all-in-ones usually don't give you the sound of a lovely vacuum tube.  They're generally solid-state and sound muted and tinny, usually pushing output through a built in speaker blocked by a grid.

I mean, get what you want, but you'd probably be massively unhappy with that one.  

The vintage ones I linked have tubes.  

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Off topic but you are one of the few people here that I haven't had the pleasure to meet IRL, GB Oats.  Hope that changes some day.  Of course love @gianmarco and he's in town and don't get together much with him.  Just felt like putting it out there.

 

[rockaction]

The vintage ones I linked have tubes.  

Ah, well at least that's cool about them, then. 

 

[jwb]

The vintage ones I linked have tubes.  

If you're not goofing, and vintage tube gear is an interest, let me know. I have an audiophile friend selling a very nice vintage 35watt tube amp and those exact Focal speakers mentioned on page 1. Would involve about 1k (for both), and a 2.5 hour drive for you (Kingston NY - he won't ship). 

 

[skol asylum]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/267568380638468/

 

[Leroy Hoard]

This is a weird mid life crisis.

Usually happens around either 33 or 45.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

This is mid 70's and people still paid retail, for the most part, for their office supplies.  My Father was a selling mojo and back then you used to get some really good spiffs for pushing certain lines.  The the gubberminst stepped in, and Staples, and put an end to all that.  Always has to be some ####### that wants the whole pie.  ########s, there's plenty around for all of us.  Anyway, Faber-Castell had this promo where if you sold 12 gross of Papermate pens you would get a free turn table, 8 track,stereo.  My Pop sold so many pens that every freaking person in the family had a stereo and most of their friends too.  Was so funny because every single place I went to as a kid had one of these stereo systems.

 

[OC Zed]

The 50s tube consoles can have a really great, unique sound (and I do love mine very much), BUT they aren’t the best turntables and you wouldn’t want to play good quality vinyl on them b/c of the weight of the TT arm.  Get a nice turntable from the mid-70s onward with nice components to complement if you’re going to get only one system.

ETA: The vintage consoles are great if you want to splurge and have a fun, second turntable as a showpiece in the living room.

 

[cosjobs]

The 50s tube consoles can have a really great, unique sound (and I do love mine very much), BUT they aren’t the best turntables and you wouldn’t want to play good quality vinyl on them b/c of the weight of the TT arm.  Get a nice turntable from the mid-70s onward with nice components to complement if you’re going to get only one system.

ETA: The vintage consoles are great if you want to splurge and have a fun, second turntable as a showpiece in the living room.

Did you replace/upgrade the speakers?

 

[OC Zed]

Did you replace/upgrade the speakers?

The speakers are Jensen (15" woofer, two 5" midranges and one 4" tweeter)... I believe they're vintage as they're labeled as Made in USA/Chicago.  The reissues are from Italy.  They sound great.

 

[OC Zed]

Anyone know of any good Black Friday deals on phono preamps?  I'm looking in the $200-$500ish range.  I have a Schiit Mani in my living room system, but need another preamp for my bedroom... was looking for a different sound to contrast.

 

[Otis]

Anyone know of any good Black Friday deals on phono preamps?  I'm looking in the $200-$500ish range.  I have a Schiit Mani in my living room system, but need another preamp for my bedroom... was looking for a different sound to contrast.

GB just buy the Pro Ject one I linked for you. Tubes> everything else. 

 

[rockaction]

GB just buy the Pro Ject one I linked for you. Tubes> everything else. 

So what does the rig look like, Otis? 

Or, if not the look, what's in it?