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Red Sox Homers: The Value Of Ramirez for Beckett/Lowell (1 Viewer)

Encyclopedia Brown

Encyclopedia Brown

Footballguy
Looking over what Hanley Ramirez has accomplished at such a young age, and inside a pitcher's park and on a crappy team, it is simply amazing.

Beckett is a Grade A pitcher (and doubly so in the playoffs), and Lowell has been very productive. They are top tier players.

And of course there has been two world championships.

However, Ramirez seems on his way to becoming the best player in the game.

What if, this year and beyond, he is putting up A-Rod/Pujols numbers? Was it still worth it?

With the financial resources of the Red Sox, they could have spent on FA's like Brad Penny or Ted Lilly. Beckett is certainly a cut above, but the distance between him and those two is not as great as the distance between Ramirez and everyone else.

I'm just curious what the prevailing opinion is?

 
Encyclopedia Brown said:
Looking over what Hanley Ramirez has accomplished at such a young age, and inside a pitcher's park and on a crappy team, it is simply amazing.Beckett is a Grade A pitcher (and doubly so in the playoffs), and Lowell has been very productive. They are top tier players.And of course there has been two world championships.However, Ramirez seems on his way to becoming the best player in the game.What if, this year and beyond, he is putting up A-Rod/Pujols numbers? Was it still worth it?With the financial resources of the Red Sox, they could have spent on FA's like Brad Penny or Ted Lilly. Beckett is certainly a cut above, but the distance between him and those two is not as great as the distance between Ramirez and everyone else.I'm just curious what the prevailing opinion is?
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they will just sign him when florida cant afford him anymore.
 
boom king said:
Encyclopedia Brown said:
Looking over what Hanley Ramirez has accomplished at such a young age, and inside a pitcher's park and on a crappy team, it is simply amazing.Beckett is a Grade A pitcher (and doubly so in the playoffs), and Lowell has been very productive. They are top tier players.And of course there has been two world championships.However, Ramirez seems on his way to becoming the best player in the game.What if, this year and beyond, he is putting up A-Rod/Pujols numbers? Was it still worth it?With the financial resources of the Red Sox, they could have spent on FA's like Brad Penny or Ted Lilly. Beckett is certainly a cut above, but the distance between him and those two is not as great as the distance between Ramirez and everyone else.I'm just curious what the prevailing opinion is?
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they will just sign him when florida cant afford him anymore.
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Sad but true. That's the state of baseball economics. Ramirez is arbitration eligible this year. Unless the Marlins are sold or get a new ballpark, he'll be flipped for more prospects before he leaves via free agency.
 
We won a World Series, it was absolutely worth it. Without question. I am pretty sure Beckett established himself as an ok postseason pitcher as well. It was a great deal for the Sox and the Marlins.

 
Balco said:
We won a World Series, it was absolutely worth it. Without question. I am pretty sure Beckett established himself as an ok postseason pitcher as well. It was a great deal for the Sox and the Marlins.
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what posistion do you play?
 
Encyclopedia Brown said:
What if, this year and beyond, he is putting up A-Rod/Pujols numbers? Was it still worth it?With the financial resources of the Red Sox, they could have spent on FA's like Brad Penny or Ted Lilly. Beckett is certainly a cut above, but the distance between him and those two is not as great as the distance between Ramirez and everyone else.I'm just curious what the prevailing opinion is?
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I don't think the Red Sox are done winning World Series. I think they still have a good run and it was worth it.Can't compare Penny or Lilly to Beckett, no way. Beckett's numbers in the postseason were brilliant, you knew when he took the mound, the Sox would win.
 
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Without question. It's not like they traded Hanley for some old vet that helped put them over the top for one year but will soon be finished. Josh Beckett is THE best big-game pitcher in the game right now hands down, and will likely add some jewelry to all of the Sox fingers before he's done.

 
Sox also traded Anibal Sanchez in that trade, guy did throw a no-hitter, though has been oft-injured.

It's very difficult to acquire #1 ace pitchers as they are entering their prime. You have to give something to get something. Would it have been preferred to keep Ramirez, sure, but the fact that the Red Sox have already won one world series as a result of this trade already makes it worth it. The goal of a GM/Owner is to win World Series, and you do what you have to do. The Red Sox have been fortunate in the fact their farm teams have been pretty flush with talent. They were able to deal from strength to address a weakness. Schilling isn't getting any younger, Pedro's gone...and their younger arms may still be a few years away from being solid pitchers. This is exactly the reason the Sox overpaid for Dice-K. They could afford the money, and they need a top of the line pitcher approaching his prime.

 
In the long-run, I think the Marlins come out as the winner(assuming they can afford the 20 million per Ramirez will surely be asking for in a few years), but at this point, the deal certainly appears to be solid from both sides...

 
guru_007 said:
Sox also traded Anibal Sanchez in that trade, guy did throw a no-hitter, though has been oft-injured.It's very difficult to acquire #1 ace pitchers as they are entering their prime. You have to give something to get something. Would it have been preferred to keep Ramirez, sure, but the fact that the Red Sox have already won one world series as a result of this trade already makes it worth it.
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Correlation<>Causation
 
It's interesting that everyone is ignoring Mike Lowell in this deal.. the guy is a gold glove 3B who is also a very solid hitter and was the World Series MVP. He's since resigned for a reasonable rate and while I don't think anyone is expecting this sort of offensive production out of him every year, he's certainly an essential cog in the Boston machine.

As someone stated earlier... you gotta give something to get something. Ramirez/Sanchez aren't too far off from Beckett / Lowell.... but it was a very very good trade for both teams.

 
[icon] said:
It's interesting that everyone is ignoring Mike Lowell in this deal.. the guy is a gold glove 3B who is also a very solid hitter and was the World Series MVP. He's since resigned for a reasonable rate and while I don't think anyone is expecting this sort of offensive production out of him every year, he's certainly an essential cog in the Boston machine. As someone stated earlier... you gotta give something to get something. Ramirez/Sanchez aren't too far off from Beckett / Lowell.... but it was a very very good trade for both teams.
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yep, good point. im pretty sure Sox fans arent gonna be hurting anytime soon. sure hanleys a stud. but so are the those World Series Rings. but it might make it a little worse if the yankees sign him in a few years.....
 
The deal worked for both teams. Sox won another Championship and Hanley will bring in a boatload of prospects down the road. Expect the Sox to be in the mix...as always.

 
Hanley Ramirez did not really dominate/produce through the minors. Highly regarded, but after repeating a season in AA (2005) where he should have separated himself from the pack, he was meh. Obviously, now he's a force, but both the team dealing prospects and the team dealing for prospects are both involved in degrees of risk.

 
Deal looks look from both sides but advantage Sox. A championship, a solid every day player at 3rd and an Ace in Beckett was worth it. In position to compete for another title and the financial luxury to bid for most free agents.

Of course Ramirez would have been much better than the carousel of short-stops they've endured but that's life!

 
Tackling Dummies said:
Hanley Ramirez did not really dominate/produce through the minors. Highly regarded, but after repeating a season in AA (2005) where he should have separated himself from the pack, he was meh. Obviously, now he's a force, but both the team dealing prospects and the team dealing for prospects are both involved in degrees of risk.
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This is a fantastic point, and shouldn't be ignored.
 
It is funny that Sox fans look at this trade and immediately say it was a positive becaus they won a championship. Yet they are not willing to give up Lester and Ellsbury to get Santana, who is a better pitcher than Beckett, and with him they would probably win many more. Also Ramirez has proven to be a great player, and Ellsbury/Lester are still all potential.

 
Domination said:
It is funny that Sox fans look at this trade and immediately say it was a positive becaus they won a championship. Yet they are not willing to give up Lester and Ellsbury to get Santana, who is a better pitcher than Beckett, and with him they would probably win many more. Also Ramirez has proven to be a great player, and Ellsbury/Lester are still all potential.
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This is debatable. If I were offered a straight up trade taking price tag into consideration I would keep Beckett.
 
Domination said:
It is funny that Sox fans look at this trade and immediately say it was a positive because they won a championship. Yet they are not willing to give up Lester and Ellsbury to get Santana, who is a better pitcher than Beckett, and with him they would probably win many more. Also Ramirez has proven to be a great player, and Ellsbury/Lester are still all potential.
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I'm not sure why you see these perspectives as some type of contradiction. The first trade, which can be assessed in hindsight, has them a championship, a solid 3rd baseman and a staff Ace.The second deal cannot be viewed with such clarity. Santana has some question marks. Does he have the frame to last? Is the dip in his numbers an aberration or a trend? How well do lefties fare in Fenway?Ellsbury lacks ideal power for an outfielder but appears to have great bat control and obviously speed to burn. Given Boston's long history of trading away young talent, I can see the reservations with dealing this kid.
 
Domination said:
It is funny that Sox fans look at this trade and immediately say it was a positive because they won a championship. Yet they are not willing to give up Lester and Ellsbury to get Santana, who is a better pitcher than Beckett, and with him they would probably win many more. Also Ramirez has proven to be a great player, and Ellsbury/Lester are still all potential.
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The Sox are a rich team, but there is a tremendous advantage for any team having players prior to the arbitration seasons. Buchholz, Lester, Pedroia & Ellsbury will cost the Sox pennies for several more seasons, so the front office can be very aggressive in acquiring players at the trading deadline or in the off season.
 
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