What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Redskin/Bronco Trade (1 Viewer)

Some guys on NFL Radio just speculated the Redskins may have obtained this first round pick so they could grab a franchised player like Darren Howard.. seems like a possible scenario to me

 
I missed the audio fo the news conference, but the Redskins held one this afternoon and apparently Gibbs said Ramsey is the starting QB. These quotes are from the board, not actual quotes from the press conference.

Ramsey is our starter....and he knows it.....sez Gibbs
Link to message board thread
Danny on the Trade:"You don't do what we did with a target of one or two guys.""...array of options..."Thinks the Cooley trade - this year's two for last year's three - was a "heck of a bargain"
Gibbs addressing areas of need:"we don't feel pressure there [at receiver]""[we don't feel pressure] at corner."
From what I can tell there was mention of possible Gardner return to the team, and Snyder and the media went at each other pretty good.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Regardless of what Washington's strategy was in this trade, I think the Bronco's raped them and put themselves in beautiful shape! Nice job, skeletor! :boxing:

 
Don't the Redskins get compensatory picks for Pierce and Smoot in next year's draft? That would make their draft cupboard less empty next year if true. There's speculation on Redskin boards that they traded next year's #1 knowing that they would be tight for money to sign one next year. If Arrington leaves next year (the way it looks now, I think he will) I think they will take a cap hit for that, also.
Were they restricted? I don't think so. Pierce offered the Skins a chance to match, but that was his own agreement. Neither of them signed an offer sheet, they were UFAs.I don't pretend to understand the move. If it's to move up, they're essentially trading two #1s (one next year) and two other first day picks for Braylon Edwards. I think the kid is talented, but he's not worth that.

There's not a player at 25 that I can imagine anyone being THAT in love with either. Maybe Matt Jones or Campbell, but neither really fit that "win now" philosophy.

I know this is supposedly a Gibbs move, so I should leave other Skins FO mistakes out of this, but it sure would be nice to have SOMEONE over there who really seems to value draft picks and not just specific players.
Compensatory draft picks have nothing to do with RFAs. With RFAs, the teams designate the offer/leve they want to assign to an RFA and if another team offers the RFA a contract then the player's original team can match the offer or get the offer/level draft pick for them. Compensatory draft picks are a calculation based on how much a team lost overall due to free agency. In this case Washington lost Pierce and Smoot to big contracts so they could get a good compensatory draft picks since I can't even think of who they did sign as FAs. Here is a link to explain (it has 2002 examples, but the top has a decent explanation):LINK
they did sign Casey Rabach, so they're looking @1 comp pick, I would think
 
Don't the Redskins get compensatory picks for Pierce and Smoot in next year's draft? That would make their draft cupboard less empty next year if true. There's speculation on Redskin boards that they traded next year's #1 knowing that they would be tight for money to sign one next year. If Arrington leaves next year (the way it looks now, I think he will) I think they will take a cap hit for that, also.
Were they restricted? I don't think so. Pierce offered the Skins a chance to match, but that was his own agreement. Neither of them signed an offer sheet, they were UFAs.I don't pretend to understand the move. If it's to move up, they're essentially trading two #1s (one next year) and two other first day picks for Braylon Edwards. I think the kid is talented, but he's not worth that.

There's not a player at 25 that I can imagine anyone being THAT in love with either. Maybe Matt Jones or Campbell, but neither really fit that "win now" philosophy.

I know this is supposedly a Gibbs move, so I should leave other Skins FO mistakes out of this, but it sure would be nice to have SOMEONE over there who really seems to value draft picks and not just specific players.
Compensatory draft picks have nothing to do with RFAs. With RFAs, the teams designate the offer/leve they want to assign to an RFA and if another team offers the RFA a contract then the player's original team can match the offer or get the offer/level draft pick for them. Compensatory draft picks are a calculation based on how much a team lost overall due to free agency. In this case Washington lost Pierce and Smoot to big contracts so they could get a good compensatory draft picks since I can't even think of who they did sign as FAs. Here is a link to explain (it has 2002 examples, but the top has a decent explanation):LINK
they did sign Casey Rabach, so they're looking @1 comp pick, I would think
They also signed Patten and maybe a couple minor guys, I think. I'm not sure they will qualify for ANY comp picks.
 
Anyone think Jason Campbell turns out to be worth 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks?
We'll know for sure in about 3 years.
True, although Gibbs probably won't even be around to see him develop. If Campbell is even ready within the next few years, it may be a new coach that wants his own QB. So I'd say the odds are certainly stacked against it working out.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
To really evaluate the trade, the question that must be asked is where would Campbell have gone if the Skins hadn't drafted him. I don't remember seeing many (if any) mocks that had him going in the 1st round. With that perhaps the Redskins only needed to jump ahead of Tampa or Miami in round 2. I'm guessing the cost would be significantly less.

 
Anyone think Jason Campbell turns out to be worth 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks?
We'll know for sure in about 3 years.
True, although Gibbs probably won't even be around to see him develop. If Campbell is even ready within the next few years, it may be a new coach that wants his own QB. So I'd say the odds are certainly stacked against it working out.
This school of thought is being perpetuated by the media but I still don't agree with it. Barring his untimely demise, Gibbs will finish out his current contract. Seriously, do you make the move they made to obtain a rookie QB in the first round, who everyone agrees is raw, and not expect to be there to groom him for your use? Ramsey's contract has 2 more years on it. Gibbs likes to draft QBs and have them hold a clipboard for a couple of seasons. Gibbs still has 4 more years left on his contract. The math just doesn't seem that hard to me.

 
Anyone think Jason Campbell turns out to be worth 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks?
No. Washington is looking more and more like one of the most poorly-run franchises in the league. When the Cincinnati Bengals are consistently out-drafting you, that is a sign that something is going awry in your organization.

 
Seriously, do you make the move they made to obtain a rookie QB in the first round, who everyone agrees is raw, and not expect to be there to groom him for your use?
Which Washington Redskin coach drafted Patrick Ramsey? How long was that coach's subsequent tenure in Washington?
 
To really evaluate the trade, the question that must be asked is where would Campbell have gone if the Skins hadn't drafted him. I don't remember seeing many (if any) mocks that had him going in the 1st round. With that perhaps the Redskins only needed to jump ahead of Tampa or Miami in round 2. I'm guessing the cost would be significantly less.
You also have to take into consideration what else the Redskins knew (i.e., who else had a strong interest in Campbell) and who else was, or was not, willing to trade with them. If they couldn't move into any other spot between Denver and Tampa (to use your example of the next team that would have selected Campbell) then it doesn't matter too much whether or not Campbell would have slipped into the second round.Gibbs wanted his guy. He insured that he got his guy. Whether it was a "good" move or not won't be known for awhile. But the speculating is the fun part :D

 
Seriously, do you make the move they made to obtain a rookie QB in the first round, who everyone agrees is raw, and not expect to be there to groom him for your use?
Which Washington Redskin coach drafted Patrick Ramsey? How long was that coach's subsequent tenure in Washington?
:lmao: Sorry, but the notion that Steve Spurrier > Joe Gibbs (or even Spurrier = Gibbs) is laughable. To each his own, though.

 
Seriously, do you make the move they made to obtain a rookie QB in the first round, who everyone agrees is raw, and not expect to be there to groom him for your use? 
Which Washington Redskin coach drafted Patrick Ramsey? How long was that coach's subsequent tenure in Washington?
:lmao: Sorry, but the notion that Steve Spurrier > Joe Gibbs (or even Spurrier = Gibbs) is laughable. To each his own, though.
Steve Spurrier was considered The Savior Of The Franchise when he arrived. Two years later he was run out of town.Joe Gibbs was considered The Savior Of The Franchise when he arrived last year. The team generally under-performed expectations.

How many times has this team been remade during Snyder's tenure? How many house-cleanings? How many big free agent signings have been "reversed" the following season?

This team doesn't know where it wants to be 5 years down the road, and the problem there lies in the front office, not on the coaching staff.

I would argue that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that Joe Gibbs has any job security. There is nothing, nothing in Dan Snyder's history to make me think that's he's really committed to anybody more than one year down the road.

 
Anyone think Jason Campbell turns out to be worth 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks?
I'd say the odds are against it. But the only way to know for sure is to look at it 3 years or so down the road when we know who those picks are and how all 4 players are performing. I think the trade and pick were made because Gibbs intends to stay for the full 5 years of his contract, he wants a good young QB behind his starter, and he has 3 (I think) former QB coaches on his staff who thought Campbell was worth trading up for.

 
This team doesn't know where it wants to be 5 years down the road, and the problem there lies in the front office, not on the coaching staff.
I'll definitely agree with the 2nd part of this statement. The problems with the franchise lie in the front office and not with Gibbs and his staff.
I would argue that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that Joe Gibbs has any job security. There is nothing, nothing in Dan Snyder's history to make me think that's he's really committed to anybody more than one year down the road.
And I would argue that the reason Gibbs has more job security than his predecessors is simply because he is Joe Gibbs.Snyder inherited Turner and it wasn't long before DannyBoy wanted to start putting his fingerprints on the team. So Turner goes (and the interim Robiskie) and Schottenheimer comes in. Snyder had alluded to wanting Spurrier at some point so Marty really was only a stopgap until the Spurrier experiment could be started. Snyder ends up being able to get Spurrier after only 1-year of Marty so he goes ahead with what he wanted all along. Horrible, horrible mistake. Sure, at the time Spurrier's arrival was cause for hope, but what offseason coaching change isn't. Spurrier hangs it up after 2 forgettable seasons and in comes Gibbs.

Bringing in Gibbs is nothing like bringing in Spurrier. Getting Gibbs back is akin to bringing in a Don Shula/Tom Landry/Chuck Noll/Bill Walsh to get your team on the right track. The difference in the leeway you give a Joe Gibbs and a Steve Spurrier is astronomical, IMHO. Snyder does not have a history of dumping legendary coaches with busts on display in Canton. Until he does, I'll contend that Gibbs has a much longer leash than Turner, Schottenheimer or Spurrier ever did.

 
I don't like the trade, but here's what I think the justification is.Gibbs isn't sold on Ramsey. We get that. Also, the Mark Brunnell experience was a mistake. If Ramsey does not do his best Drew Brees impression this year, he's likely out of town next year. And in that instance, the Skins are looking at a rookie or bringing in another high priced veteran. Here's the problem. We likely won't be able to afford a either next year. Certainly not a #1 pick in the range that Leinart would go and probably not a real veteran. I'm guessing the Skins staff saw no rookies in 06 that they liked below Leinart, so they took Campbell with the intention of plugging him in 2006. If Ramsey wins this year, great, but if not, better to take your medicine and blow up and start from scratch.I don't really agree with the strategy, but it's the only way the move makes even a lick of sense to me.

 
Seriously, do you make the move they made to obtain a rookie QB in the first round, who everyone agrees is raw, and not expect to be there to groom him for your use? 
Which Washington Redskin coach drafted Patrick Ramsey? How long was that coach's subsequent tenure in Washington?
:lmao: Sorry, but the notion that Steve Spurrier > Joe Gibbs (or even Spurrier = Gibbs) is laughable. To each his own, though.
Steve Spurrier was considered The Savior Of The Franchise when he arrived. Two years later he was run out of town.Joe Gibbs was considered The Savior Of The Franchise when he arrived last year. The team generally under-performed expectations.

How many times has this team been remade during Snyder's tenure? How many house-cleanings? How many big free agent signings have been "reversed" the following season?

This team doesn't know where it wants to be 5 years down the road, and the problem there lies in the front office, not on the coaching staff.

I would argue that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that Joe Gibbs has any job security. There is nothing, nothing in Dan Snyder's history to make me think that's he's really committed to anybody more than one year down the road.
You got your facts wrong. Spurrier quit, despite Snyder being open to his return. Besides, at the time Spurrier was hired no one, NO ONE was critical of that choice and everyone thought he'd be an innovative mind in the NFL. Ron Wolf was among those who praised his hiring. Snyder has been impulsive, but if you track the team's progress over Snyder's tenure you see refinement in his methods. He inherited Norv (who was already a lame duck - he unfortunately also fired Casserly because Norv forced him to choose), and was too hands on.

He then responded (overreacted?) by handing over all of the personnel and coaching reigns to Schottenheimer (no one ever seemsm to remember this), who then became a dictator and created problems within the organization and didn't communicate at all with Snyder, so he fired him.

He hired Spurrier and put Cerrato back into control of personnel matters, and was praised for his innovativeness and for thinking outside the box, only to see Spurrier sputter and fail, and then quit on his cell phone from the golf course.

He's now hired Gibbs and the organization is more stable than it has ever been since Snyder arrived. I personally don't trust Gibbs as much in personnel matters as in coaching matters, but he's in control. You saw that with a draft that was very conservative and not splashy.

With regards to the Campbell pick, it was a conservative choice of a long-term QB insurance policy. I personally thought they traded too much for that pick, but if Campbell ends up being the best QB in this draft (and I think he could be when it's all said and done) that would arguably in hindsight place him within the top ten picks in this draft, which would be worth the 2006 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks that were given up to get him. I for one am not overly impressed with either Smith or Rodgers, so this is a possibility.

Either way, we won't know for 3-4 years at a minimum, so jumping all over this pick now is an overreaction.

 
With regards to the Campbell pick, it was a conservative choice of a long-term QB insurance policy. I personally thought they traded too much for that pick, but if Campbell ends up being the best QB in this draft (and I think he could be when it's all said and done) that would arguably in hindsight place him within the top ten picks in this draft, which would be worth the 2006 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks that were given up to get him. I for one am not overly impressed with either Smith or Rodgers, so this is a possibility.
It wasn't just you who was not so impressed with Rodgers. Fox Sports column

4. Washington: The Redskins are always getting mauled for lack of imagination and one bonehead decision after another.

But they had a solid first day with physical Auburn CB Carlos Rogers, who was rated by 10 teams to be better than Antrel Rolle. And more than half of the teams had Auburn QB Jason Campbell ahead of Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers. Campbell has the best arm among the quarterbacks. They took two fullbacks, and UCLA's Manuel White should stick on the roster. Stanford OLB Jared Newberry might be a solid nickel linebacker. Made the most of their limited selections.
 
Seriously, do you make the move they made to obtain a rookie QB in the first round, who everyone agrees is raw, and not expect to be there to groom him for your use? 
Which Washington Redskin coach drafted Patrick Ramsey? How long was that coach's subsequent tenure in Washington?
:lmao: Sorry, but the notion that Steve Spurrier > Joe Gibbs (or even Spurrier = Gibbs) is laughable. To each his own, though.
Steve Spurrier was considered The Savior Of The Franchise when he arrived. Two years later he was run out of town.Joe Gibbs was considered The Savior Of The Franchise when he arrived last year. The team generally under-performed expectations.

How many times has this team been remade during Snyder's tenure? How many house-cleanings? How many big free agent signings have been "reversed" the following season?

This team doesn't know where it wants to be 5 years down the road, and the problem there lies in the front office, not on the coaching staff.

I would argue that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that Joe Gibbs has any job security. There is nothing, nothing in Dan Snyder's history to make me think that's he's really committed to anybody more than one year down the road.
You got your facts wrong. Spurrier quit, despite Snyder being open to his return. Besides, at the time Spurrier was hired no one, NO ONE was critical of that choice and everyone thought he'd be an innovative mind in the NFL. Ron Wolf was among those who praised his hiring. Snyder has been impulsive, but if you track the team's progress over Snyder's tenure you see refinement in his methods. He inherited Norv (who was already a lame duck - he unfortunately also fired Casserly because Norv forced him to choose), and was too hands on.

He then responded (overreacted?) by handing over all of the personnel and coaching reigns to Schottenheimer (no one ever seemsm to remember this), who then became a dictator and created problems within the organization and didn't communicate at all with Snyder, so he fired him.

He hired Spurrier and put Cerrato back into control of personnel matters, and was praised for his innovativeness and for thinking outside the box, only to see Spurrier sputter and fail, and then quit on his cell phone from the golf course.

He's now hired Gibbs and the organization is more stable than it has ever been since Snyder arrived. I personally don't trust Gibbs as much in personnel matters as in coaching matters, but he's in control. You saw that with a draft that was very conservative and not splashy.

With regards to the Campbell pick, it was a conservative choice of a long-term QB insurance policy. I personally thought they traded too much for that pick, but if Campbell ends up being the best QB in this draft (and I think he could be when it's all said and done) that would arguably in hindsight place him within the top ten picks in this draft, which would be worth the 2006 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks that were given up to get him. I for one am not overly impressed with either Smith or Rodgers, so this is a possibility.

Either way, we won't know for 3-4 years at a minimum, so jumping all over this pick now is an overreaction.
My point was that Snyder can't seem to make up his mind in what direction he wants this team to go. You respond by listing all the philosophical and structural shifts that have occurred year-to-year under Snyder's leadership. You and I would seem to be in agreement here.
 
Snyder did make up his mind - he wanted Spurrier. But when that loser quit, Dannyboy turned to Gibbs.At this point Snyder has been content to stick it out with two separate coaches, so I don't think we can say he's too quick triggered anymore. The real evil he's created is the atrocious stadium experience we have to suffer through.

 
My point was that Snyder can't seem to make up his mind in what direction he wants this team to go. You respond by listing all the philosophical and structural shifts that have occurred year-to-year under Snyder's leadership. You and I would seem to be in agreement here.
The last two coaches he's hired have been signed to five-year contracts, and the first one of those two quit. There's no ambiguity in those actions. This sounds to me like you're relying upon 4-5 year old information to bash Snyder, which is a pretty tired trick if you read the national NFL media's stuff.

Do you want the truth or do you want to bash Snyder?

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top