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Reggie Bush 3rd overall pick (1 Viewer)

Mozeta

Footballguy
DD has and the VBD spreadsheet have Reggie bush ranked 3rd or 4th overall in my league with the latest updates. This is a standard 10 man PPR league with 1 point for every 10 yards and 6 for a TD. Start 1 QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1Flex, 1 TE.

Am I the only one seeing this and is anyone else surprised FFG has him ranked so high in this sort of league? Meanwhile Gore has fallen to 6th and LJ to 9th on these rankings.

Is this consistent with what others are seeing.

 
DD has and the VBD spreadsheet have Reggie bush ranked 3rd or 4th overall in my league with the latest updates. This is a standard 10 man PPR league with 1 point for every 10 yards and 6 for a TD. Start 1 QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1Flex, 1 TE. Am I the only one seeing this and is anyone else surprised FFG has him ranked so high in this sort of league? Meanwhile Gore has fallen to 6th and LJ to 9th on these rankings. Is this consistent with what others are seeing.
His value explodes in PPR, but with Deuce looming as a TD vulture I can't see Bush being the logical third pick.
 
DD has and the VBD spreadsheet have Reggie bush ranked 3rd or 4th overall in my league with the latest updates. This is a standard 10 man PPR league with 1 point for every 10 yards and 6 for a TD. Start 1 QB, 2RB, 2WR, 1Flex, 1 TE. Am I the only one seeing this and is anyone else surprised FFG has him ranked so high in this sort of league? Meanwhile Gore has fallen to 6th and LJ to 9th on these rankings. Is this consistent with what others are seeing.
His value explodes in PPR, but with Deuce looming as a TD vulture I can't see Bush being the logical third pick.
He's pretty high up there in mine too. I think like 3rd or 4th. (PPR)
 
In PPR, the difference between 80 receptions and 20 receptions is as big as the difference between 20 TDs and 10 TDs.

 
I took him with the 3rd pick in my PPR dynasty without hesitation.

I haven't lost a wink of sleep over the decision.

:goodposting:

 
I just d'led the latest DD and these are the top picks it suggests...

1. LT

2. SJAX

3. Westbrook

4. Gore

5. Addai

6. Bush

7. Willie Parker

8. Torry Holt

9. Steve Smith (Car)

10. Travis Henry

11. Ocho Cinco

12. LJ

13. TO

14. Rudi Johnson

15. MJD

That's a very interesting list to me. I'm in a PPR league. 4 pts per passing TD, 6 pts rushing and rec. TD, .1 pt per rushing yd, .04 per passing yd., .05 per rec. yd. 1 pt per rec.

Very interesting, I think.

 
You can definately state a case for Westy at #3 in a PPR league. Bush does not get as many TDs as Westy and his numbers should be lower in every category. Westy is finally getting his "due" in terms of fantasy status and will not be a steal in the early second any longer.

 
I just d'led the latest DD and these are the top picks it suggests...1. LT2. SJAX3. Westbrook4. Gore5. Addai6. Bush7. Willie Parker8. Torry Holt9. Steve Smith (Car)10. Travis Henry11. Ocho Cinco12. LJ13. TO14. Rudi Johnson15. MJDThat's a very interesting list to me. I'm in a PPR league. 4 pts per passing TD, 6 pts rushing and rec. TD, .1 pt per rushing yd, .04 per passing yd., .05 per rec. yd. 1 pt per rec.Very interesting, I think.
It all depends on starters. If you have to start 3 WRs their value increases and I would assume that you do in your league. Holt is a lock for a minimum of 100 grabs 1200 yards and 8 TDs and what's not to like about that? Though Holt can usually be had in the mid-2nd (even in PPR leagues).
 
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You can definately state a case for Westy at #3 in a PPR league. Bush does not get as many TDs as Westy and his numbers should be lower in every category. Westy is finally getting his "due" in terms of fantasy status and will not be a steal in the early second any longer.
Bush does not end up on an injury report 71% of the season with a Monday night scratch either, though.
 
I don't know if this is the thread to mention this, or rather, ask this question, so if it's a potential hijack, then I'll start my own thread...

I notice a considerable variance between the draft suggestions that DD makes versus the MyFBG page cheat sheet, using the same league set ups. What gives? Any ideas?

Or, should I just ##### off and start a new thread? :-)

 
You can definately state a case for Westy at #3 in a PPR league. Bush does not get as many TDs as Westy and his numbers should be lower in every category. Westy is finally getting his "due" in terms of fantasy status and will not be a steal in the early second any longer.
Bush does not end up on an injury report 71% of the season with a Monday night scratch either, though.
not YET... but from how many times i've seen Bush stay on the ground a few extra seconds then limp/wimper over to the sideline for a few plays, I wouldn't be surprised if he battles injury through out his career and ends up w/ the label "injury prone" at some point.
 
You can definately state a case for Westy at #3 in a PPR league. Bush does not get as many TDs as Westy and his numbers should be lower in every category. Westy is finally getting his "due" in terms of fantasy status and will not be a steal in the early second any longer.
Bush does not end up on an injury report 71% of the season with a Monday night scratch either, though.
not YET... but from how many times i've seen Bush stay on the ground a few extra seconds then limp/wimper over to the sideline for a few plays, I wouldn't be surprised if he battles injury through out his career and ends up w/ the label "injury prone" at some point.
I'm a Saints' fan and watched as many games as possible, which was about 10 total including the playoffs. The only time he "limped" over to the sideline was when he was lit up in the playoffs against the Eagles. How many times did you watch the Saints last year?
 
That shot Bush took in the Eagles playoff game was insane. I though he would be out for at least part of the game, but he came right back. (As much as I hated to see that since I'm Eagles loyal).

 
You can definately state a case for Westy at #3 in a PPR league. Bush does not get as many TDs as Westy and his numbers should be lower in every category. Westy is finally getting his "due" in terms of fantasy status and will not be a steal in the early second any longer.
Bush does not end up on an injury report 71% of the season with a Monday night scratch either, though.
not YET... but from how many times i've seen Bush stay on the ground a few extra seconds then limp/wimper over to the sideline for a few plays, I wouldn't be surprised if he battles injury through out his career and ends up w/ the label "injury prone" at some point.
I'm a Saints' fan and watched as many games as possible, which was about 10 total including the playoffs. The only time he "limped" over to the sideline was when he was lit up in the playoffs against the Eagles. How many times did you watch the Saints last year?
I'd say I saw a minimum of 1/2. We got alot of N.O. games here in LosAngeles last year. It could've been more.Football is a violent game... these players are pretty much perpetually injured. That play against the Eagles happened to lesser degrees throughout the season... but that was the worst i saw him jacked up... and him dropping back to his knees and crawling on all fours after popping up for a second definitely leaves a lasting impression... but that's not the only instance i've seen to make me (semi) question his toughness and durability.
 
Bush has a chance to get 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving in any given year, plus close to 100 catches. Even without TDs, that is 300 points in a PPR. I think he is gold in a PPR league.

I would definitely take him 3rd in a PPR league, especially a dynasty.

 
bonesman said:
but from how many times i've seen Bush stay on the ground a few extra seconds then limp/wimper over to the sideline for a few plays, I wouldn't be surprised if he battles injury through out his career and ends up w/ the label "injury prone" at some point.
You're kidding, right ?
 
gurp13 said:
I just d'led the latest DD and these are the top picks it suggests...1. LT2. SJAX3. Westbrook4. Gore5. Addai6. Bush7. Willie Parker8. Torry Holt9. Steve Smith (Car)10. Travis Henry11. Ocho Cinco12. LJ13. TO14. Rudi Johnson15. MJDThat's a very interesting list to me. I'm in a PPR league. 4 pts per passing TD, 6 pts rushing and rec. TD, .1 pt per rushing yd, .04 per passing yd., .05 per rec. yd. 1 pt per rec.Very interesting, I think.
Remember, 50% do not repeat the following year. Review this list closely, there are some clear non-repeaters...
 
bonesman said:
but from how many times i've seen Bush stay on the ground a few extra seconds then limp/wimper over to the sideline for a few plays, I wouldn't be surprised if he battles injury through out his career and ends up w/ the label "injury prone" at some point.
You're kidding, right ?
Yeah, the one time I saw it last season has me really worried too. :)
 
bonesman said:
SproutDaddy said:
bonesman said:
Leroy said:
Harald said:
You can definately state a case for Westy at #3 in a PPR league. Bush does not get as many TDs as Westy and his numbers should be lower in every category. Westy is finally getting his "due" in terms of fantasy status and will not be a steal in the early second any longer.
Bush does not end up on an injury report 71% of the season with a Monday night scratch either, though.
not YET... but from how many times i've seen Bush stay on the ground a few extra seconds then limp/wimper over to the sideline for a few plays, I wouldn't be surprised if he battles injury through out his career and ends up w/ the label "injury prone" at some point.
I'm a Saints' fan and watched as many games as possible, which was about 10 total including the playoffs. The only time he "limped" over to the sideline was when he was lit up in the playoffs against the Eagles. How many times did you watch the Saints last year?
I'd say I saw a minimum of 1/2. We got alot of N.O. games here in LosAngeles last year. It could've been more.Football is a violent game... these players are pretty much perpetually injured.

That play against the Eagles happened to lesser degrees throughout the season... but that was the worst i saw him jacked up... and him dropping back to his knees and crawling on all fours after popping up for a second definitely leaves a lasting impression... but that's not the only instance i've seen to make me (semi) question his toughness and durability.
Superman would have been floored by that hit. In an interview with Sheldon Brown, Brown said that if Bush's arm wasn't tucked in ribs would have been broken. He probably has never been laid out like that. That he only missed a play or two tells me he's a pretty tough football player.
 
If you have a late first round pick (which I do) I would be half tempted to pass on Reggie and try to get him on the way back in the second round because I don't think he is has high on the radar to most people. I think it depends on where he is being taken on average the day your draft rolls around.

 
Good grief ...

You all are talking about a 2nd-string RB, and you have no reason to believe that Deuce is going to tail off or go away.

Non-PPR - NonDynasty - No way [He will continue to miss the Top 20]!

Non-PPR- Dynasty - No way [He will continue to miss the Top 20]!

PPR - NonDynasty - No way [He will go no higher than the Top 10]!

PPR - Dynasty - There's a chance that he continues to reach Top 10. IMHO, there's no chance that he ever breaks the Top 5, and expecting Top 3 is simply unrealistic.

 
Good grief ...You all are talking about a 2nd-string RB, and you have no reason to believe that Deuce is going to tail off or go away.Non-PPR - NonDynasty - No way [He will continue to miss the Top 20]!Non-PPR- Dynasty - No way [He will continue to miss the Top 20]!PPR - NonDynasty - No way [He will go no higher than the Top 10]!PPR - Dynasty - There's a chance that he continues to reach Top 10. IMHO, there's no chance that he ever breaks the Top 5, and expecting Top 3 is simply unrealistic.
Hmmm... in my season last year he finished as the #8 RB, and it's non-PPR.And the fact you say he's not worth it in a dynasty league leads me to assume you just don't like Bush, and that your opinion is extremely biased and hence unworth of consideration.Could you present some verifiable evidence to support your projections?
 
switz,

Good grief switz, go to footballguys.com and look at last years stats.

He was the 23rd RB with respect to ppg. Go ahead and amuse yourself by adding the receptions to all the RB totals and you'll find that he jumps to RB #10. Don't know what your leagues scoring system is, but it is non-standard if you had Bush in the Top 10 without PPR.

I see no way he obtains these levels again as long as Deuce is around ...

To name a few, here are RB's who will certainly displace him this year ...

Shaun Alexander

Joseph Addai

Edgerrin James

Travis Henry

You are completely mis-interpreting whether or not I "like" Reggie Bush. I do like him. I think he is an exciting football player to watch. I just don't appreciate the unbridled "man love" for him here on the boards and will do everything that I can to keep folks appropriately informed and moderated.

 
Anthony Borbely said:
Bush has a chance to get 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving in any given year, plus close to 100 catches. Even without TDs, that is 300 points in a PPR. I think he is gold in a PPR league.I would definitely take him 3rd in a PPR league, especially a dynasty.
I don't think Bush has a chance in hell at reaching 1,000 yards rushing this year, but maybe that's just me. Bush is not a BAD pick in a PPR league, but he is really being overhyped based on his 88 catches last year. People forget that Deuce McAllister is RB1 in New Orleans and he gets everything that goes with it. Carries, rushing yardage, and rushing TDs. Bush is a Westbrook type player, but he is also just the RB2 in that offense. Keep that in mind.PS- 1,000 yards receiving is also highly unlikely.
 
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Anthony Borbely said:
Bush has a chance to get 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving in any given year, plus close to 100 catches. Even without TDs, that is 300 points in a PPR. I think he is gold in a PPR league.I would definitely take him 3rd in a PPR league, especially a dynasty.
I don't think Bush has a chance in hell at reaching 1,000 yards rushing this year, but maybe that's just me. Bush is not a BAD pick in a PPR league, but he is really being overhyped based on his 88 catches last year. People forget that Deuce McAllister is RB1 in New Orleans and he gets everything that goes with it. Carries, rushing yardage, and rushing TDs. Bush is a Westbrook type player, but he is also just the RB2 in that offense. Keep that in mind.PS- 1,000 yards receiving is also highly unlikely.
How about 1500 total yards, 82 recs and 8-9 total TD's, because that is all he'd need to be RB3-4 in a PPR league
 
switz,Good grief switz, go to footballguys.com and look at last years stats.He was the 23rd RB with respect to ppg. Go ahead and amuse yourself by adding the receptions to all the RB totals and you'll find that he jumps to RB #10. Don't know what your leagues scoring system is, but it is non-standard if you had Bush in the Top 10 without PPR.I see no way he obtains these levels again as long as Deuce is around ...To name a few, here are RB's who will certainly displace him this year ...Shaun AlexanderJoseph AddaiEdgerrin JamesTravis HenryYou are completely mis-interpreting whether or not I "like" Reggie Bush. I do like him. I think he is an exciting football player to watch. I just don't appreciate the unbridled "man love" for him here on the boards and will do everything that I can to keep folks appropriately informed and moderated.
Last season, Bush was 17 in total fantasy points by an RB per FBG scoring. For the purposes of my league, whcih is not PPR, he still finished #8, but we reward big plays, which Reggie creates. However, of his 177 points, 126 were scored over the last 8 games. So using PPG is really irrelevant, as it doesn't give an accurate representation of his potential for this year. His prorated second half would put him in the #5 RB spot.I'm not sure, after giving a thorough examination of last season, anyone could say definitively that he's a lock to miss the top 20.And I still go back to your stating he's not a top-20 RB for a dynasty draft. Can you seriously name 20 RBs you would put above him in a dynasty??Again, please present some verifiable evidence to support your projection that he's not possible of being a top-20 back.Just an FYI - Shaun Alexander's prorated season only equals 218 points.Edgerrin James may perform better, but if he indeed is losing goalline touches, he is a greater risk than Bush.I have no problem ranking Addai or Henry above him at all. But I don't have a problem ranking LT or SJax above him either.
 
Anthony Borbely said:
Bush has a chance to get 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving in any given year, plus close to 100 catches. Even without TDs, that is 300 points in a PPR. I think he is gold in a PPR league.I would definitely take him 3rd in a PPR league, especially a dynasty.
I don't think Bush has a chance in hell at reaching 1,000 yards rushing this year, but maybe that's just me. Bush is not a BAD pick in a PPR league, but he is really being overhyped based on his 88 catches last year. People forget that Deuce McAllister is RB1 in New Orleans and he gets everything that goes with it. Carries, rushing yardage, and rushing TDs. Bush is a Westbrook type player, but he is also just the RB2 in that offense. Keep that in mind.PS- 1,000 yards receiving is also highly unlikely.
In a PPR redraft you may have a point,but PPR dynasty Bush is gold.McAlister won't be around for ever.
 
Anthony Borbely said:
Bush has a chance to get 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving in any given year, plus close to 100 catches. Even without TDs, that is 300 points in a PPR. I think he is gold in a PPR league.I would definitely take him 3rd in a PPR league, especially a dynasty.
I don't think Bush has a chance in hell at reaching 1,000 yards rushing this year, but maybe that's just me. Bush is not a BAD pick in a PPR league, but he is really being overhyped based on his 88 catches last year. People forget that Deuce McAllister is RB1 in New Orleans and he gets everything that goes with it. Carries, rushing yardage, and rushing TDs. Bush is a Westbrook type player, but he is also just the RB2 in that offense. Keep that in mind.PS- 1,000 yards receiving is also highly unlikely.
In a PPR redraft you may have a point,but PPR dynasty Bush is gold.McAlister won't be around for ever.
Did you know Bush had fewer touches during the second half of the season than the first, and still put up better numbers?McAllister's touches increased during the second half. But it didn't hurt Bush at all. I just don't see why so many people are saying McAllister is the reason Bush won't put up big numbers. :P
 
Actually switz, I think you are missing the mark.

If you owned Bush last year, then you had a whole bunch of disappointment and "hurt" associated with the games that you are so conveniently dismissing before Reggie supposedly figured things out. You have to take the whole package.

ppg is a far better gauge of performance on the whole considering that a RB will likely miss time due to injury. Especially as it pertains to putting a starting Fantasy team together each week. Take a look at Brian Westbrook; he missed game 4 last year. You knew it well in advance and could make adjustments to account for it with a substitute and their corresponding points for that week. Using ppg means that you are not "stuck" with Westbrook's 257.6 [standard] or 334.6 [ppr] spread over 16 games. Rather, you have those points PLUS your substitutes over the 16 games. Westbrook's value assessed over 15 games [ppg] is completely more factual and useful than 16 games [total points].

 
Anthony Borbely said:
Bush has a chance to get 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving in any given year, plus close to 100 catches. Even without TDs, that is 300 points in a PPR. I think he is gold in a PPR league.I would definitely take him 3rd in a PPR league, especially a dynasty.
I don't think Bush has a chance in hell at reaching 1,000 yards rushing this year, but maybe that's just me. Bush is not a BAD pick in a PPR league, but he is really being overhyped based on his 88 catches last year. People forget that Deuce McAllister is RB1 in New Orleans and he gets everything that goes with it. Carries, rushing yardage, and rushing TDs. Bush is a Westbrook type player, but he is also just the RB2 in that offense. Keep that in mind.PS- 1,000 yards receiving is also highly unlikely.
How about 1500 total yards, 82 recs and 8-9 total TD's, because that is all he'd need to be RB3-4 in a PPR league
1500 total yards is possible. 82 receptions is possible. 8-9 TDs is possible. None of these are a given. Especially the total yardage, based on my previous argument. Just as easily as Bush could go 1500/82/8, he could also go 1200/67/6 and then where are you?A guy like Brian Westbrook, who thrives under the same high reception/receiving mold as Reggie Bush, deserves his first round billing. 1500 total yardage from him is LIKELY. 60-70 receptions are LIKELY. 8-9 TDs are LIKELY. He doesn't have a Deuce McAllister breathing down his neck for playing time. He's been a focal receiving option for his team for several seasons now. And from my experience, it is foolish to draft a player, ESPECIALLY a 1st rounder, for "possible" upsides without looking at potential downsides.
 
• Reggie Bush Injured; Should Saints Be Concerned?

• Reggie Bush Injured Against Ravens

• Reggie Bush Tweaked Shoulder on Fourth TD

• Reggie Bush Injures Ankle in NBA All-Star Celebrity Game

i realize the media loves them some Reggie Bush and if he gets a hang-nail it'll be in the news... but anyone professing Bush to be a rock could be in for a rude awakening IMO. Because of his style of play and how he's used in the passing game, Bush is in the face of danger more often than other RBs and that could increase the chance of him sustaining an injury.

also.... i may not have the best memory in the world... but i know i've seen Reggie Bush limping off the field more than that one time against the Eagles:

"I'm looking forward to" playing, Bush said after limping from the shower to his locker following the game.

Bush was wrenched to the ground by linebacker Bart Scott, who rolled over Bush's lower legs as the two spun down.

Bush sat on the field for several minutes and winced as he was examined by trainers. He then limped to the locker room with help from team staff.

http://www.reggiebushonline.com/bush102906.php

title of the article is "ankle isn't serious".... but it was serious enough for him to run for -5 yards on 11 carries against the Buccs the following week. Yea... that's NEGATIVE 5 yards.

so who's more crazy? Me... who says that Bush could POSSIBLY be considered injury prone someday... or those acting like Reggie Bush is impervious to pain and the only time he's limped off the field was after the shot in the playoffs?

 
Dancing Bear said:
Actually switz, I think you are missing the mark.

If you owned Bush last year, then you had a whole bunch of disappointment and "hurt" associated with the games that you are so conveniently dismissing before Reggie supposedly figured things out. You have to take the whole package.

ppg is a far better gauge of performance on the whole considering that a RB will likely miss time due to injury. Especially as it pertains to putting a starting Fantasy team together each week. Take a look at Brian Westbrook; he missed game 4 last year. You knew it well in advance and could make adjustments to account for it with a substitute and their corresponding points for that week. Using ppg means that you are not "stuck" with Westbrook's 257.6 [standard] or 334.6 [ppr] spread over 16 games. Rather, you have those points PLUS your substitutes over the 16 games. Westbrook's value assessed over 15 games [ppg] is completely more factual and useful than 16 games [total points].
Why? Are we to assume he's going to need to figure things out again? If that's the case then knock down LT, because we should treat him like he's a rookie again, learning everything anew. How about Gore? Or Addai? Or any othe rplayer you want...PPG is beneficial, but it too has flaws. Sure, if a player tends to get injured, you can get a better picture of what he's worth when playing, but what about rookies who are slowly worked into the offense?

For instance, take Portis rookie season. In weeks 1,2,and 4 he saw 5, 4, and 8 carries respectively. In 3 of his 16 games he barely touched the ball. His PPG was negatively afffected due to this. Which makes it inaccurate.

Last season, Addai had three games with less than 10 carries. Do yuo tihnk he'll have less than 10 carries in a single game this season???

Last season, Bush saw seven games where he carries the ball less than 10 times. Do you really think those games provide an accurate representation in PPG? Even if he only sees 10 carries a game this season (160 for the year, not a lot) those seven games severely skew the PPG negatively and paint a VERY incorrect picture of his performance.

It seems to me like you are trying to frame your argument to support a conclusion you've already drawn, instead of letting the evidence direct your conclusion.

 
SproutDaddy said:
I'm a Saints' fan and watched as many games as possible, which was about 10 total including the playoffs. The only time he "limped" over to the sideline was when he was lit up in the playoffs against the Eagles. How many times did you watch the Saints last year?
So i guess you didn't see that game against Baltimore then, eh?
 
Back to the original Draft Dominator question. I thought that Dodds had Reggie too high on the dominator last year so I backed down his stats a little. In the WCOFF, I had LT2, Harrison in the 2nd, and the beginning of the third round if I would have selected Bush I would have my league championship and went onto the playoffs to win some big $$$$$.....

I thought the beginning of the third was too high last year and the dominator was ranking Bush too high. I did not slect him and chose the "safer" option...

Chris "FN" Chambers.

I will never forigive myself for not listening to the Draft Dominator.

Kindly

BIGG Johnny

THE ASSclowns

 
switz,

I never said he needed to figure anything out again. You are the one making the assertion that one can dismiss the first part of his season and reference only the tail end of the season. And further you are using this skewed sampling as a means for projecting Bush into this year.

I am stating that ppg for all RB's is the most accurate way to reference their performance. That goes for any of them. IMHO, Total Fantasy points is essentially irrelevant.

If I had Kevin Jones last year for 12 games and offset him with Ron Dayne for the other 4 games as a Fantasy Owner I would have done absolutely fantastic. Jones' performance is totally undermined if you use Total Fantasy points and reference him as RB #23 instead of how he performed in each game that he played, which was RB #09.

Furthermore it does not matter to me that Bush drops from 17th to 23rd going from Total Points to ppg, I could care less. I did not pick ppg specifically to reduce or diminish Bush. In fact it is probably my objectivity which gives you such a problem. It seems to really rankle you that your dear Reggie would be looked at in a way which detracts from your perceived greatness for him.

I would be very interested in seeing the scoring system that your league used which somehow has Bush as RB #8 without PPR.

 
switz,

I never said he needed to figure anything out again.
Actually, you wrote:

If you owned Bush last year, then you had a whole bunch of disappointment and "hurt" associated with the games that you are so conveniently dismissing before Reggie supposedly figured things out. You have to take the whole package.
You are asserting that those games, before he supposedly figured things out, are a VALID basis for projecting this season. I am asserting they aren't. I would also asert that anyone with an open mind would agree that using games where a player was barely used to project how they will do the next season is NOT a VALID way to do things.Or are you asserting that Bush had ZERO learning curve, and that there is another reason he suddenly started excelling the second half of the season? If that is the case, I would love to know what your reason is.

You are the one making the assertion that one can dismiss the first part of his season and reference only the tail end of the season. And further you are using this skewed sampling as a means for projecting Bush into this year.
So then, on the record - you think that games where a player is barely used, or is learning a new system provide a SOLID, VALID basis for making projections? As this is different that a player who misses a game entirely due to injury, and in essence you think the player will continue to be barely used frequently in the future.
I am stating that ppg for all RB's is the most accurate way to reference their performance. That goes for any of them. IMHO, Total Fantasy points is essentially irrelevant.
And I believe I illustrated perfectly well the flaws inherent in PPG. And let me point out I'm not stating Total Season Points is without flaws either.
If I had Kevin Jones last year for 12 games and offset him with Ron Dayne for the other 4 games as a Fantasy Owner I would have done absolutely fantastic. Jones' performance is totally undermined if you use Total Fantasy points and reference him as RB #23 instead of how he performed in each game that he played, which was RB #09.
However, that still wouldn't help you this season, as in those games played he wasn't recovering from a LisFranc sprain, nor was he competitng with Tatum Bell who the coaches love for carries. So how does that PPG help you at all, when you fail to take into account circumstance?
Furthermore it does not matter to me that Bush drops from 17th to 23rd going from Total Points to ppg, I could care less. I did not pick ppg specifically to reduce or diminish Bush.
I don't think you picked PPG to diminish Bush's value. I think you have an agenda though in how you use statistics, instead of letting the evidence dictate your point of view.
In fact it is probably my objectivity which gives you such a problem. It seems to really rankle you that your dear Reggie would be looked at in a way which detracts from your perceived greatness for him.
Actually, I don't think you are objective at all. And Reggie Bush is not near or dear to me at all. I merely thought your comments were ludicrous, and am still waiting for verifiable evidence to support your conclusion. If you continue to discount the flaws pointed out in your argument, I can't see yhow you can insist you are being objective. An objective person will use as much information as possible to reach a conclusion, instead of rejecting information that doesn't support an already drawn conclusion.
I would be very interested in seeing the scoring system that your league used which somehow has Bush as RB #8 without PPR.
1 point for every 10 yards rushed or received, but not decimals.6 points for TDs rushed or received plus 1 point for each ten yards of the length of the TD.

-3 points for a fumble.

And after reviewing, he was the #8 RB over the last 6 weeks of the season, he finished 15 overall for the entire season. The reason the 6 week average stuck in my head is because I use the last 6 weeks weighted when I do my projections, and I was surprised at how high Reggie had finished.

 
Wasn't there one game where Bush blew up for like 50 points or something? If you take that one game out, how does his season avg. and future 'projection' look?

 
switz,I hope you are having fun twisting things around.You are the one who mentioned his second half which led to my reference to "figuring it out".

switz said:
His prorated second half would put him in the #5 RB spot.
And then you completely mis-lead the thread with this false statement.
Hmmm... in my season last year he finished as the #8 RB, and it's non-PPR.
My rebuttals are contingent upon your arguments and I was assuming you were stating facts. Which you have not done in entirety. Therefore it is irrelevant to pick apart my rebuttals line by line.The basis of our differences is that I view Bush as a 2nd String RB behind Deuce McAllister and I view any RB seasons as a season.I don't have to show any projections. I have a year of history which I believe is a good indicator for how he will perform this year. Not much has changed in New Orleans.I believe that Bush will finish as a Top 25 RB in standard scoring leagues [ppg] and a Top 15 RB in PPR leagues [ppg]. I don't believe he breaks the Top 10 RB in standard scoring leagues or the Top 5 in PPR leagues.You believe that you can pick and choose a part of the season for Bush and project him into the Top 5. This is not logical or reasonable IMHO. It completely ignores the teams he played against, and further ignores who he had as peers to play with in a given week.Your sampling for instance includes his 40+ point game he had against San Francisco and it also includes the good games he had against all the other horrible Defenses New Orleans faced the 2nd half, but your projection conveniently ignores his two games against Carolina, two games against T-Bay, one game against Atlanta and the one against Baltimore. Hmm, wonder why ... cause they were tough defensive matchups?There is no way Bush is a Top 5 RB in either a standard scoring or ppr league in any year that Deuce is healthy and contributing to the New Orleans running game.One final comment. There have only been 40 instances of a RB obtaining 75 or more receptions in a season throughout the history of the NFL; these instances have been accomplished by 28 different RB's. Only 3 of these RB's have been able to repeat with 80 or more receptions [Roger Craig, Larry Centers and Marshall Faulk]. There is little or no history to support that any given RB will repeat 80 or more receptions; only 10% of the RB's have accomplished this. Reggie may in fact repeat his number of receptions but the probabilities are working against him and it is certainly not a "given".
 
So let me see if I got this straight....a 29 year old injury prone back is supposed to worry me enough into not drafting a highly versitile, younger, drafed #2 overall by his team because why? :shrug:

This thread baffles me in ways I cannot explain.... Since when did old backs have more value than young ones? And I still to the life of me can't get how people pass judgement either way; good or bad on Reggie after a rookie season? People talk about what he can or can't do like it's year 5 or something.

Im glad I wasn't here when Clayton from the Bucs went off his rookie year...I'm sure he was anointed the "New Jerry Rice". Let guys like him and Drew get at least 2 seasons under the belt before we start loving and hatin.

 
SproutDaddy said:
I'm a Saints' fan and watched as many games as possible, which was about 10 total including the playoffs. The only time he "limped" over to the sideline was when he was lit up in the playoffs against the Eagles. How many times did you watch the Saints last year?
So i guess you didn't see that game against Baltimore then, eh?
Actually, yes I did.
 
If you have a late first round pick (which I do) I would be half tempted to pass on Reggie and try to get him on the way back in the second round because I don't think he is has high on the radar to most people. I think it depends on where he is being taken on average the day your draft rolls around.
No way in hell he makes it to the second.
 
Bush has a chance to get 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving in any given year, plus close to 100 catches. Even without TDs, that is 300 points in a PPR. I think he is gold in a PPR league.

I would definitely take him 3rd in a PPR league, especially a dynasty.
I don't think Bush has a chance in hell at reaching 1,000 yards rushing this year, but maybe that's just me. Bush is not a BAD pick in a PPR league, but he is really being overhyped based on his 88 catches last year. People forget that Deuce McAllister is RB1 in New Orleans and he gets everything that goes with it. Carries, rushing yardage, and rushing TDs. Bush is a Westbrook type player, but he is also just the RB2 in that offense. Keep that in mind.PS- 1,000 yards receiving is also highly unlikely.
This is great.Deuce had 10 rushing TD's in his RB1 role with everything that comes with it. The second most in his career.

Reggie Bush had 6 rushing TD's in his RB2 role. In his rookie year. He also added 2 receiving TD's.

 
SproutDaddy said:
I'm a Saints' fan and watched as many games as possible, which was about 10 total including the playoffs. The only time he "limped" over to the sideline was when he was lit up in the playoffs against the Eagles. How many times did you watch the Saints last year?
So i guess you didn't see that game against Baltimore then, eh?
Actually, yes I did.
SproutDaddy said:
I'm a Saints' fan and watched as many games as possible, which was about 10 total including the playoffs. The only time he "limped" over to the sideline was when he was lit up in the playoffs against the Eagles. How many times did you watch the Saints last year?
So i guess you didn't see that game against Baltimore then, eh?
Actually, yes I did.
So what are you saying?.... you have selective memory?!?!??or perhaps you are saying http://www.reggiebushonline.com is exaggerating his injury?

that'd be a pretty funny stance to take... especially considering that they didn't even mention that hit he took from S. Brown in the playoffs.... perhaps they have selective memory too?!?!?

perhaps you should be saying that you are wrong and that Bush "limped" to the sideline more than once, but you forgot about it?

I only wish that FBG didn't delete all the game threads from last year.... then we might see how many times Bush actually left the field to get checked out by the trainers last year.... because I'd bet it was more the two times we can account for for sure.

 
SproutDaddy said:
I'm a Saints' fan and watched as many games as possible, which was about 10 total including the playoffs. The only time he "limped" over to the sideline was when he was lit up in the playoffs against the Eagles. How many times did you watch the Saints last year?
So i guess you didn't see that game against Baltimore then, eh?
Actually, yes I did.
SproutDaddy said:
I'm a Saints' fan and watched as many games as possible, which was about 10 total including the playoffs. The only time he "limped" over to the sideline was when he was lit up in the playoffs against the Eagles. How many times did you watch the Saints last year?
So i guess you didn't see that game against Baltimore then, eh?
Actually, yes I did.
So what are you saying?.... you have selective memory?!?!??or perhaps you are saying http://www.reggiebushonline.com is exaggerating his injury?

that'd be a pretty funny stance to take... especially considering that they didn't even mention that hit he took from S. Brown in the playoffs.... perhaps they have selective memory too?!?!?

perhaps you should be saying that you are wrong and that Bush "limped" to the sideline more than once, but you forgot about it?

I only wish that FBG didn't delete all the game threads from last year.... then we might see how many times Bush actually left the field to get checked out by the trainers last year.... because I'd bet it was more the two times we can account for for sure.
Go back and check that site again. They did in fact mention the S. Brown hit. Please make a valid point if you want to call me out.
 
I have a PPR Dynasty start up draft Saturday.... I gaurantee hes gone be by pick 4.... either way; I have pick 7 which means I'm not getting him. :thumbup:

 
If you have a late first round pick (which I do) I would be half tempted to pass on Reggie and try to get him on the way back in the second round because I don't think he is has high on the radar to most people. I think it depends on where he is being taken on average the day your draft rolls around.
That's a very risky strategy and one I'm not sure will pan out - even in a non-PPR league. My league is switching to PPR for the first time and I have the 11th pick and would love to see Bush there but I'm afraid it's a pipe dream. In a PPR league, I don't think you can argue against taking him Top 5 - especially now with LJ's status in question. But even if LJ returns you could make a strong argument for Bush fourth or fifth (with Westbrook going right before or after him). There's no reason to believe Bush's role in the offense will decline; in fact it's logical to assume it will increase. And when you consider how strongly he finished the season it shows how high his ceiling is even sharing time with McAllister. This is a guy who could drop 1,500 total yards, 80+ receptions and double-digit TDs without question. In any league that's valuable but in a PPR league that's golden. And in a league like switz's and mine which rewards big plays his value increases even more.I've yet to see too many sites, magazines etc. which have Bush ranked outside the first round (i.e. Top 12 among RBs) regardless of the scoring system. So even if you're in a league with some guppies, chances are strong they will have a cheat sheet with Bush ranked no lower than 12 and quite probably in the Top 10. If you want Bush, I'd say the chances are very high you'll need a Top 8-9 pick to get him regardless of the scoring system in your league. The sharks all know how valuable he is and the guppies will see his name ranked firmly in that first-round range. I really can't see him falling to the second round except in the rarest of drafts.
 

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