Remember Justin Fargas? (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

LINK

A career average of 4.5 yards-per-carry looks good enough for the Silver

and Black.

Reportedly, the Oakland Raiders ' late third-rounder of 2003, Justin

Fargas, will take on a larger role in 2006. Attempting just a handful of

rushes last season, the 220-pound speed back will likely alleviate the

substantial workload previously placed entirely on starter LaMont

Jordan. As an oft-injured, highly-criticized member of a second-rate

backup running crew, Fargas' chance at substantial playing time next

season is unexpectedly high.

With likely one final run at an NFL career with the Oakland Raiders,

Fargas will need to improve on three major elements of his game:

Running lower: Easier said than done. Fargas' natural comfort zone is

higher than most running backs. Unfortunately, that comfort zone has

caused consecutive seasons of discomfort for both Fargas and his team.

In his first three seasons with the Raiders, the 26-year-old has missed

over 10 regular season games due to injury. The 6-1, upright speed back

has been bothered with knee, toe, and hamstring injuries throughout his

short career, limiting him to just 80 carries. At 220 pounds, he runs

with a style equivalent to better-known Chris Brown of the Tennessee

Titans . Like Fargas, Brown uses his 220-pound frame to dance through

the line at a more upright stance than typical. Not coincidently, Brown

has been afflicted with hamstring, ankle, toe, head, shoulder, and elbow

injuries throughout his three-season NFL career. For Fargas, who has

little to lose and a permanent roster spot to gain, making even a slight

adjustment in running style may become a necessity. Turning into a

Jerome Bettis clone surely isn't the answer; however, compressing his

running form a bit will give defenders less to hit and less to injure.

Blocking better: With a player like Justin Fargas, you are not asking

for a handful of pancakes week in and week out. Nevertheless, blocking

for the quarterback is an aspect of the game that silently will help

Fargas transition into a dependable backup. Providing full-time starter,

LaMont Jordan, with sideline time is a requisite in 2006. However, if

Fargas proves to be incapable of holding off an average blitzer, more of

the work is spread onto Jordan and the less-than-stellar halfback crew

behind him. Again, Fargas won't be knocking defenders down in '06;

however, buying some time for his quarterback will help the bruised

runner quickly regain some respect.

Choosing better lanes: For a one-sided runner like Justin Fargas,

breaking off a long scamper is always the desired result when touching

the ball. However, despite his tremendous speed, Fargas has been very

sketchy when behind the line of scrimmage. On most occasions, panic or

impatience seemingly sets in on the young runner, often forcing him to

run through closed doors and high traffic. At the NFL level, few running

backs find their way out of traffic with a chunk of yardage; at most,

falling forward becomes the ultimate goal. Unfortunately, falling

forward isn't the USC grad's area of expertise. By the time the 2006

season rolls around, Fargas will need to shape up his

vision-and-decision point, as hitting the first hole is the only way to

exploit speed in the secondary.

"I don't look at it as a make or break year," stated head coach Art

Shell. "Justin is doing well. He has really improved. I was talking to

[skip Peete] and he said, 'I'm seeing Justin doing some things out there

I haven't seen him do over the last couple of years.' That comes from

maturity."

Despite Art Shell's opening comment, 2006 is unquestionably a "make or

break year" for Justin Fargas.

Perhaps the word "break" should remain distant from the oft-injured

Fargas for now, though.

 

[Bri]

raider fans have been saying this for so long they probably said it when he was in college

 

[Super King]

raider fans have been saying this for so long they probably said it when he was in college

i drafted this guy in my dynasty league years ago, and have sat on him ever since. and you know what, im not going to give up on him yet. cuz i know as soon as i drop him, someone is going to pounce on him. makes me sick

 

[THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA]

i got him too, he had just as good of a combine as Reggie Bush so i have heard.....and Plus im holding him for trade value and possible dynasty value.

 

[Hagger]

This seems like off-season fluff to me. LaMont is the man there. Short of an injury to Jordan, Fargas is really no better than a second stringer/change of pace type. I suppose it's possible he'll see a little more time in spot duty, but really not enough to make him worth much. He only has value if he's traded to a team that needs a RB or if Jordan gets injured.

 

[Donnybrook]

i got him too, he had just as good of a combine as Reggie Bush so i have heard.....and Plus im holding him for trade value and possible dynasty value.

That makes sense since Reggie Bush didn't work out at the combine.

 

[Z-Dog]

This seems like off-season fluff to me. LaMont is the man there. Short of an injury to Jordan, Fargas is really no better than a second stringer/change of pace type. I suppose it's possible he'll see a little more time in spot duty, but really not enough to make him worth much. He only has value if he's traded to a team that needs a RB or if Jordan gets injured.

Short of an injury and short of Fargas becoming a good NFL RB...

 

[kaso]

This seems like off-season fluff to me.  LaMont is the man there. 

Short of an injury and short of Fargas becoming a good NFL RB...

 

[EBF]

Fargas is one of the two players who are on every single one of my dynasty teams. I think he could make some noise once he switches teams.

 

[Dave Baker]

Any comment about Fargas begins with "If healthy..."

I've always believed he could be very good if could ever be healthy long enough to prove it. But I doubt that ever happens.

 

[sholditch]

That article seems almost all speculation, buttressed by faint praise from the RBC. Seems like BS that people write this time of year when there is nothing to write about. I might consider taking him in my 25-round dynasty draft, but by round 24 there's so little left it's ridiculous.

You guys think he's a better bet than Alvin Pearman?

 

[mightyeskimo]

Always nice to see Huggy Bear's kid a little more!

 

[pinequick]

LINK

A career average of 4.5 yards-per-carry looks good enough for the Silver

and Black.

Reportedly, the Oakland Raiders ' late third-rounder of 2003, Justin

Fargas, will take on a larger role in 2006. Attempting just a handful of

rushes last season, the 220-pound speed back will likely alleviate the

substantial workload previously placed entirely on starter LaMont

Jordan. As an oft-injured, highly-criticized member of a second-rate

backup running crew, Fargas' chance at substantial playing time next

season is unexpectedly high.

With likely one final run at an NFL career with the Oakland Raiders,

Fargas will need to improve on three major elements of his game:

Running lower: Easier said than done. Fargas' natural comfort zone is

higher than most running backs. Unfortunately, that comfort zone has

caused consecutive seasons of discomfort for both Fargas and his team.

In his first three seasons with the Raiders, the 26-year-old has missed

over 10 regular season games due to injury. The 6-1, upright speed back

has been bothered with knee, toe, and hamstring injuries throughout his

short career, limiting him to just 80 carries. At 220 pounds, he runs

with a style equivalent to better-known Chris Brown of the Tennessee

Titans . Like Fargas, Brown uses his 220-pound frame to dance through

the line at a more upright stance than typical. Not coincidently, Brown

has been afflicted with hamstring, ankle, toe, head, shoulder, and elbow

injuries throughout his three-season NFL career. For Fargas, who has

little to lose and a permanent roster spot to gain, making even a slight

adjustment in running style may become a necessity. Turning into a

Jerome Bettis clone surely isn't the answer; however, compressing his

running form a bit will give defenders less to hit and less to injure.

Blocking better: With a player like Justin Fargas, you are not asking

for a handful of pancakes week in and week out. Nevertheless, blocking

for the quarterback is an aspect of the game that silently will help

Fargas transition into a dependable backup. Providing full-time starter,

LaMont Jordan, with sideline time is a requisite in 2006. However, if

Fargas proves to be incapable of holding off an average blitzer, more of

the work is spread onto Jordan and the less-than-stellar halfback crew

behind him. Again, Fargas won't be knocking defenders down in '06;

however, buying some time for his quarterback will help the bruised

runner quickly regain some respect.

Choosing better lanes: For a one-sided runner like Justin Fargas,

breaking off a long scamper is always the desired result when touching

the ball. However, despite his tremendous speed, Fargas has been very

sketchy when behind the line of scrimmage. On most occasions, panic or

impatience seemingly sets in on the young runner, often forcing him to

run through closed doors and high traffic. At the NFL level, few running

backs find their way out of traffic with a chunk of yardage; at most,

falling forward becomes the ultimate goal. Unfortunately, falling

forward isn't the USC grad's area of expertise. By the time the 2006

season rolls around, Fargas will need to shape up his

vision-and-decision point, as hitting the first hole is the only way to

exploit speed in the secondary.

"I don't look at it as a make or break year," stated head coach Art

Shell. "Justin is doing well. He has really improved. I was talking to

[skip Peete] and he said, 'I'm seeing Justin doing some things out there

I haven't seen him do over the last couple of years.' That comes from

maturity."

Despite Art Shell's opening comment, 2006 is unquestionably a "make or

break year" for Justin Fargas.

Perhaps the word "break" should remain distant from the oft-injured

Fargas for now, though.

Here's what I get from the note above--"Fargas could be a good runningback if:1) he changes his running style

2) he learns how to block, and

3) he develops good vision so that he can pick the right hole at the LOS."

Pray tell, what crappy NFL runningback could we *not* say those things about?

"Jonathan Wells could be a good runningback if. . ."

Please.

 

[EBF]

That article seems almost all speculation, buttressed by faint praise from the RBC. Seems like BS that people  write this time of year when there is nothing to write about. I might consider taking him in my 25-round dynasty draft, but by round 24 there's so little left it's ridiculous.

I agree that this is mostly a hollow puff piece, but I wouldn't count out a slightly increased role for Fargas. I'd definitely take him over a scrub like Pearman. Here are some important things to remember about Fargas:1. He led the NFL in preseason rushing yards a few years back. This might not sound like much of an accomplishment, but the preseason is where guys like Clinton Portis, Rudi Johnson, Michael Turner, and Chester Taylor have really shined before stepping up during the regular season.

2. Fargas has some of the best combine numbers of any RB in the past 5 years. It's possible that he lacks instincts and football skills, but he certainly has the physical ability to be a starting RB in the NFL.

3. Fargas was a first day draft pick and has yet to prove that he can't play at the NFL level. Sure, he's never had a big season or even a big game, but he's never had more than 40 carries in a season. Personally, I don't like to write off first day draft picks until they prove that they can't play. If you did that, you would've missed out on guys like Rudi Johnson and Ahman Green. Was anyone hyping them after their rookie and sophomore years? I doubt it. Fargas has only been in the league for three years. We still don't know what he can do. Maybe he stinks, but maybe he's great.

In all likelihood, Fargas will ride the pine and be limited to something below 200 rushing yards this season, but he's still a young player and I think he has the opportunity to emerge somewhere in the future. The nice thing about a player like this is that his price tag is so low that you're basically not taking any risk by acquiring him. The highest price I've paid to get him is Patrick Ramsey, and I've been able to scoop him off waivers in several leagues.

 

[Sleeper 43]

As a Dynasty owner thier comes a time when you have to move on and free up room for new prospects. Fargas has been dead weight on my rosters for too long. Hes cried wolf too many times for me to listen anymore. The guy gets turf toe just by walking on the field. And you thought Fraud Taylor And DeShaun Foster were bad, this guy takes the cake.

Fargas proves that measurables are NOT everything in the NFL

 

[Dave Baker]

Fargas proves that measurables are NOT everything in the NFL

Agreed, health is more important than measureables. Of course, you didn't state it, but various other intangibles are more important too. At this point, and EBF mentions this, we do not know what Fargas is capable of because health issues have kept him off the field. He was drafted highly and should get a chance at some point to at least show if he can do something. What happens then is a subject of greater interest and one that's been touched upon here many times.

Your comparison to Taylor does not bode well for your argument here either, as Taylor has over 10,000 career total yards and 58 touchdowns. If Fargas gets to that point, most would agree he's had a successful career.

 

[pinequick]

Fargas proves that measurables are NOT everything in the NFL

Agreed, health is more important than measureables. Of course, you didn't state it, but various other intangibles are more important too.

Agreed--of which vision in the hole is an important one for an NFL RB, right? The article above notes that Fargas has poor vision/decision-making at the line of scrimmage. I'm not sure that vision is something that can be learned.It's not all health with Fargas. He's also not a very good NFL runningback.

 

[EBF]

Agreed--of which vision in the hole is an important one for an NFL RB, right?  The article above notes that Fargas has poor vision/decision-making at the line of scrimmage.  I'm not sure that vision is something that can be learned.

If I'm not mistaken, that article was written by a nobody on a no-name site. I wouldn't place a lot of faith in his judgment.

It's not all health with Fargas.  He's also not a very good NFL runningback.

He has a career YPC average of 4.5 and was the 2003 preseason rushing champion, including a 100+ yard game against the Vikings. Those aren't exactly great indications that he's Canton-bound, but I don't know if there's a lot of evidence to support your claim that he's not a very good NFL running back. I think the truth is that we just don't know right now. We haven't seen enough of him.

 

[pinequick]

Agreed--of which vision in the hole is an important one for an NFL RB, right? The article above notes that Fargas has poor vision/decision-making at the line of scrimmage. I'm not sure that vision is something that can be learned.

If I'm not mistaken, that article was written by a nobody on a no-name site. I wouldn't place a lot of faith in his judgment.

It's not all health with Fargas. He's also not a very good NFL runningback.

He has a career YPC average of 4.5 and was the 2003 preseason rushing champion, including a 100+ yard game against the Vikings. Those aren't exactly great indications that he's Canton-bound, but I don't know if there's a lot of evidence to support your claim that he's not a very good NFL running back. I think the truth is that we just don't know right now. We haven't seen enough of him.

What you see as half-full, I do not. There is plenty of evidence that he's not a very good NFL runningback. 3 seasons and 80 total carries is a lot of evidence for me. We can blame it on injuries, or ineffectiveness--but the Raiders gave his job away prior to last season, if he were ever going to win it.Maybe he is the next LaMont Jordan, who breaks out after an initial stint as a backup. But I don't have the roster space to wait and hope and find out.

 

[Dave Baker]

There is plenty of evidence that he's not a very good NFL runningback. 3 seasons and 80 total carries is a lot of evidence for me. We can blame it on injuries, or ineffectiveness--but the Raiders gave his job away prior to last season, if he were ever going to win it.

There is little evidence IMO that Fargas is not a good NFL RB, other than health. He's certainly unproven, so the Raiders have understandably been hesitant to pave an easy path for him to start in the past.As a USC back, I never thought his vision was great, but I think few RBs have great vision (maybe 6-7 in the NFL right now). But he certainly was not hesitant in college and that seems to be one problem right now.

There's really not much to see here though, so don't think I'm sitting here advocating aggressively pursuing Fargas in your leagues. But to write him off for incorrect reasons would be equally regrettable.

 

[EBF]

What you see as half-full, I do not.  There is plenty of evidence that he's not a very good NFL runningback.  3 seasons and 80 total carries is a lot of evidence for me. 

I think a lot of people who play dynasty make this mistake. It comes down to logic. Just because a player has not yet proven that he can produce does not mean that he is incapable of producing. Here is what Ahman Green and Rudi Johnson did during their first two seasons:Rudi Johnson

2001 - 0 carries for 0 yards

2002 - 17 carries for 67 yards

Ahman Green

1998 - 35 carries for 209 yards and 1 TD

1999 - 26 carries for 120 yards

I wouldn't say they were really setting the league on fire. Someone who used your logic probably would have concluded that they were not very good running backs. That would've been a mistake. Here's what they did in the next two seasons:

Rudi Johnson

2003 - 215 carries, 957 yards, 9 TDs

2004 - 361 carries, 1454 yards, 12 TDs

Ahman Green

2000 - 263 carries, 1175 yards, 10 TDs

2001 - 304 carries, 1387 yards, 9 TDs

I understand that we can't assume that every untested backup has what it takes to be a starter, but we also shouldn't assume that they don't. One of the better ways to find value in dynasty leagues is by pursuing guys who have been unjustly written off by the masses. I highly recommend players like William Green and Justin Fargas as quality late picks.

 

[jdoggydogg]

I think a lot of people who play dynasty make this mistake. It comes down to logic. Just because a player has not yet proven that he can produce does not mean that he is incapable of producing.

While Fargas has done practically nothing in the NFL so far, that doesn't preclude him from having success. Fargas can be had fairly cheaply in dynasty leagues, so I don't see a problem with stashing him on the back of your roster.

 

[Hammerage]

His biggest problem that I have seen is that he had a bad turf toe 2 years ago which hampered him all that year and lingered into last. This is a career ending injury for many RB's. If he has fully recovered from that and does not have a re-injury then I think he has a decent shot at being a productive back, possibly somewhere else. My guess is (and that is all it is) that we wouldn't be talking about Jordan as the Raiders RB but we would be talking about Vargas and whether he is worth a 1st round selection. When the Raiders brought Jordon on they knew that Fargas may never recover from his toe, and I still don't know that he has.

Just my .02.

 

[football fan]

What you see as half-full, I do not.  There is plenty of evidence that he's not a very good NFL runningback.  3 seasons and 80 total carries is a lot of evidence for me. 

I think a lot of people who play dynasty make this mistake. It comes down to logic. Just because a player has not yet proven that he can produce does not mean that he is incapable of producing. Here is what Ahman Green and Rudi Johnson did during their first two seasons:Rudi Johnson

2001 - 0 carries for 0 yards

2002 - 17 carries for 67 yards

Ahman Green

1998 - 35 carries for 209 yards and 1 TD

1999 - 26 carries for 120 yards

I wouldn't say they were really setting the league on fire. Someone who used your logic probably would have concluded that they were not very good running backs. That would've been a mistake. Here's what they did in the next two seasons:

Rudi Johnson

2003 - 215 carries, 957 yards, 9 TDs

2004 - 361 carries, 1454 yards, 12 TDs

Ahman Green

2000 - 263 carries, 1175 yards, 10 TDs

2001 - 304 carries, 1387 yards, 9 TDs

I understand that we can't assume that every untested backup has what it takes to be a starter, but we also shouldn't assume that they don't. One of the better ways to find value in dynasty leagues is by pursuing guys who have been unjustly written off by the masses. I highly recommend players like William Green and Justin Fargas as quality late picks.

I am not sure how these examples are considered the same. Ahman didn't play much in his first two years because Coach Holmgrin didn't like his fumbling problems. When Green Bay traded for Ahman, and when his playing time increased, his stats increased.Rudi was waiting behind another RB, Dillon.

Why hasn't Fargus played much? I don't believe that he had changed teams or was waiting behind some other RB for his turn at starting. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[TME]

What you see as half-full, I do not.  There is plenty of evidence that he's not a very good NFL runningback.  3 seasons and 80 total carries is a lot of evidence for me. 

I think a lot of people who play dynasty make this mistake. It comes down to logic. Just because a player has not yet proven that he can produce does not mean that he is incapable of producing. Here is what Ahman Green and Rudi Johnson did during their first two seasons:Rudi Johnson

2001 - 0 carries for 0 yards

2002 - 17 carries for 67 yards

Ahman Green

1998 - 35 carries for 209 yards and 1 TD

1999 - 26 carries for 120 yards

I wouldn't say they were really setting the league on fire. Someone who used your logic probably would have concluded that they were not very good running backs. That would've been a mistake. Here's what they did in the next two seasons:

Rudi Johnson

2003 - 215 carries, 957 yards, 9 TDs

2004 - 361 carries, 1454 yards, 12 TDs

Ahman Green

2000 - 263 carries, 1175 yards, 10 TDs

2001 - 304 carries, 1387 yards, 9 TDs

I understand that we can't assume that every untested backup has what it takes to be a starter, but we also shouldn't assume that they don't. One of the better ways to find value in dynasty leagues is by pursuing guys who have been unjustly written off by the masses. I highly recommend players like William Green and Justin Fargas as quality late picks.

I agree that sometimes all someone needs is an opportunity. But, what seems to be propping Fargas up from a dynasty prospective is that monster workout. Otherwise, people would have all cut bait. The guys you mention above were monster productive in college. They were great ball carries, but other aspects held them back. Fargas never showed that kind of college production and really has not been incredibly productive since high school. I think that's another thing propping him up still is how higly he was touted out of high school. But, the guy has an indefinite injury bug and really from college on has not shown us that he stands out from the crowd other than his freakish athletic ability.

Rostering really depends on the size and roster capacity of your league, but he's really more of a late round "flier" than "quality pick."

 

[EBF]

Why hasn't Fargus played much? I don't believe that he had changed teams or was waiting behind some other RB for his turn at starting. Please correct me if I am wrong.

2003 - Fargas was behind Tyrone Wheatley and Charlie Garner, who had combined for 2,393 total yards the previous year.2004 - I think Fargas was dealing with turf toe this year. He was part of a weak RBC with Zack Crockett, Amos Zereoue, and Tyrone Wheatley.

2005 - Fargas was behind LaMont Jordan.

So basically it's been a combination of injuries and the presence of quality veterans like Garner and Jordan.

 

[caul]

Always nice to see Huggy Bear's kid a little more!

fargas has a weird distinction as the character Huggy Bear's kid appeared briefly in a simpsons cameo, but it looked/sounded/acted nothing like justin. Thought i'd throw that in there.

 

[EBF]

I agree that sometimes all someone needs is an opportunity. But, what seems to be propping Fargas up from a dynasty prospective is that monster workout. Otherwise, people would have all cut bait.

The guys you mention above were monster productive in college. They were great ball carries, but other aspects held them back. Fargas never showed that kind of college production and really has not been incredibly productive since high school. I think that's another thing propping him up still is how higly he was touted out of high school. But, the guy has an indefinite injury bug and really from college on has not shown us that he stands out from the crowd other than his freakish athletic ability.

Rostering really depends on the size and roster capacity of your league, but he's really more of a late round "flier" than "quality pick."

I agree with most of what you said. In fact, I think the most likely scenario is that he has a fairly unspectacular year as Jordan's backup and goes on to minimal success with a new team. That said, I still think it would be a mistake to disregard him entirely. I think he's shown enough talent to warrant a pick in the round 18-22 range of initial 12 team dynasty drafts. I think he represents a great risk/reward proposition in that range.

 

[mightyeskimo]

Always nice to see Huggy Bear's kid a little more!

fargas has a weird distinction as the character Huggy Bear's kid appeared briefly in a simpsons cameo, but it looked/sounded/acted nothing like justin. Thought i'd throw that in there.

Justin Fargas is the son of Antonio Fargas, the actor that played Huggy Bear in the popular 70's TV show Starsky & Hutch. The Simpsons episode to which you are referring, "Bart Has Two Mommies", actually stared Antonio reprising his role as Huggy Bear for the Fox animated series. Justin really is Huggy Bear's kid.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Always nice to see Huggy Bear's kid a little more!

fargas has a weird distinction as the character Huggy Bear's kid appeared briefly in a simpsons cameo, but it looked/sounded/acted nothing like justin. Thought i'd throw that in there.

Justin Fargas is the son of Antonio Fargas, the actor that played Huggy Bear in the popular 70's TV show Starsky & Hutch.

You can't get this kind of stuff anywhere else.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Fargas is one injury away from being in a great spot.

The offense ran through LamJ last year, and he's a centerpiece again this season.

Just like Michael Turner in SD, he's one play away from starting in an NFL backfield. That's valuable right there.

 

[Dave Baker]

Fargas never showed that kind of college production...

This is true to some degree, but in his senior season, Fargas came on in the second half of the season to lead USC to an Orange Bowl victory. Things really seemed to change as soon as he was named starter. He went 27/139/1 against Oregon, 9/43/1 in a Stanford romp, 26/125/1 against ASU, 16/41/1 in a UCLA romp, 20/120/0 against Notre Dame and 20/122/2 in the Orange Bowl against Iowa.The team was 4-2 prior to Fargas becoming a starter and went undefeated thereafter. And this was with Sultan McCullough and Malaefou MacKenzie on the team and getting carries.

Fargas' impact on that team was huge. Not a lot of college production, sure, but nothing to ignore, especially his senior season with one of the best team in the nation.

 

[mightyeskimo]

Always nice to see Huggy Bear's kid a little more!

fargas has a weird distinction as the character Huggy Bear's kid appeared briefly in a simpsons cameo, but it looked/sounded/acted nothing like justin. Thought i'd throw that in there.

Justin Fargas is the son of Antonio Fargas, the actor that played Huggy Bear in the popular 70's TV show Starsky & Hutch.

You can't get this kind of stuff anywhere else.

Amen Brother!!

 

[TME]

Fargas is one injury away from being in a great spot.

Just like Michael Turner in SD, he's one play away from starting in an NFL backfield. That's valuable right there.

This can be said for every NFL backup RB. Nothnig that would indicate Fargas of being of any value higher than any other backup RB.

 

[Dave Baker]

Fargas is one injury away from being in a great spot.

Just like Michael Turner in SD, he's one play away from starting in an NFL backfield.  That's valuable right there.

This can be said for every NFL backup RB. Nothnig that would indicate Fargas of being of any value higher than any other backup RB.

This is where I've tended to disagree, as I think, based on everything I know from watching Fargas, that he has plenty of talent as a runner. Health has held him back, not unjustifiably so. But he has more talent than I believe 95% of others around here credit him with.

 

[TME]

Fargas never showed that kind of college production...

This is true to some degree, but in his senior season, Fargas came on in the second half of the season to lead USC to an Orange Bowl victory. Things really seemed to change as soon as he was named starter. He went 27/139/1 against Oregon, 9/43/1 in a Stanford romp, 26/125/1 against ASU, 16/41/1 in a UCLA romp, 20/120/0 against Notre Dame and 20/122/2 in the Orange Bowl against Iowa.The team was 4-2 prior to Fargas becoming a starter and went undefeated thereafter. And this was with Sultan McCullough and Malaefou MacKenzie on the team and getting carries.

Fargas' impact on that team was huge. Not a lot of college production, sure, but nothing to ignore, especially his senior season with one of the best team in the nation.

I may not exactly recall top of mind, and I am not going to go look it up (but feel free to), but I believe the USC backfield was basically splitting time all year. "Starting" was basically irrelevant. Besides, you are highlighting 6 games over the past how many years? Not much to hang your hat on. I could go do that for any RB in the league.

 

[pinequick]

For all the college talk about Fargas--didn't he end up at USC because of *injuries* at Michigan cost him playing time?

One injury is fluke.

Two is a trend.

Injuries that force you to transfer colleges, and limit your production to 80 carries in three full NFL seasons is really all I need to see.

So maybe I'm wrong--it *is* the injuries with Fargas.

 

[TME]

Fargas is one injury away from being in a great spot.

Just like Michael Turner in SD, he's one play away from starting in an NFL backfield.  That's valuable right there.

This can be said for every NFL backup RB. Nothnig that would indicate Fargas of being of any value higher than any other backup RB.

This is where I've tended to disagree, as I think, based on everything I know from watching Fargas, that he has plenty of talent as a runner. Health has held him back, not unjustifiably so. But he has more talent than I believe 95% of others around here credit him with.

See my prior post about what's propping up Fargas' value. Yes, he certainly had a perception of great talent coming into college; however, we have not seen anything special from him since high school to indicate that his talent was so great, and if it was so great, I think NFL scouts and coaches would have picked up on it and drafted accordingly and developed him accordingly.The guy was what - 3rd or 4th round pick and that was predicated on a monster workout. Yes, that is talent, athletic talent, but we have not seem much by way of football talent.

Again, yes, a good late round flier, but the next backup RB to get a full-time job (ala Jordan, Johnson, Green, and others mentioned), highly doubtful.

 

[Dave Baker]

I may not exactly recall top of mind, and I am not going to go look it up (but feel free to), but I believe the USC backfield was basically splitting time all year. "Starting" was basically irrelevant.

Besides, you are highlighting 6 games over the past how many years? Not much to hang your hat on. I could go do that for any RB in the league.

It wouldn't take you long to look at the number of carries of each back. Starting was indeed relevant, as Fargas got the vast workload during that period.I "highlighted" those games only in response to your question about his lack of college production.

I'm hanging my hat on my assessment of seeing Fagars play in college and dominate during a period his senior year, albeit admittedly very brief. Many I believe agreed with my assessments as Fargas was taken in the third round despite injury worries (which have proven correct). His skills were also somewhat on display during that one preseason, which EBF points out.

Not much to work with, I admit, but it's all we've got here, as health issues have consistently gotten in the way. I've stated earlier that I would NOT hang my hat on Fargas ever being a big-time NFL RB. His injury history is far too extensive for that, plus he's behind a producitve runner in Jordan. I only can say with some degree of confidence that Fargas has plenty of talent as a runner. WIll that be enough? Doubtful at this point. Deficiencies in blocking and the passing game could also hold him back. But don't discount Fargas' talent as a runner.

 

[Sleeper 43]

Fargas proves that measurables are NOT everything in the NFL

Agreed, health is more important than measureables. Of course, you didn't state it, but various other intangibles are more important too. At this point, and EBF mentions this, we do not know what Fargas is capable of because health issues have kept him off the field. He was drafted highly and should get a chance at some point to at least show if he can do something. What happens then is a subject of greater interest and one that's been touched upon here many times.

Your comparison to Taylor does not bode well for your argument here either, as Taylor has over 10,000 career total yards and 58 touchdowns. If Fargas gets to that point, most would agree he's had a successful career.

Put your stat book down for a minute and just realize the basics........Fred Taylor / Deshaun Foster / Chris Brown guys like this have been hurt ALOT and kill peoples Dynasty rosters because you wait and wait and wait. Fred Taylor did eventually pan out. That doesnt mean people didnt get burnt by him for 4 years in a row.

 

[EBF]

Fargas is one injury away from being in a great spot.

Just like Michael Turner in SD, he's one play away from starting in an NFL backfield.  That's valuable right there.

This can be said for every NFL backup RB. Nothnig that would indicate Fargas of being of any value higher than any other backup RB.

This is where I've tended to disagree, as I think, based on everything I know from watching Fargas, that he has plenty of talent as a runner. Health has held him back, not unjustifiably so. But he has more talent than I believe 95% of others around here credit him with.

 

[Dave Baker]

See my prior post about what's propping up Fargas' value. Yes, he certainly had a perception of great talent coming into college; however, we have not seen anything special from him since high school to indicate that his talent was so great, and if it was so great, I think NFL scouts and coaches would have picked up on it and drafted accordingly and developed him accordingly.

See my posts regarding a nice and impactful senior season with USC. Scouts saw that talent and drafted him, despite the nightmarish injury history, on day one.

 

[pinequick]

Do we have any RBs we can point to who had serious injury problems in college, injury problems in their first 3 NFL seasons, and then finally developed thereafter into productive RBs?

 

[Dave Baker]

Put your stat book down for a minute and just realize the basics........

Fred Taylor / Deshaun Foster / Chris Brown guys like this have been hurt ALOT and kill peoples Dynasty rosters because you wait and wait and wait. Fred Taylor did eventually pan out. That doesnt mean people didnt get burnt by him for 4 years in a row.

Nobody is discounting his injury history here.Also, nobody is talking about drafting Fargas at the point where guys like Taylor and Foster have been taken in the past.

 

[EBF]

Fargas proves that measurables are NOT everything in the NFL

Agreed, health is more important than measureables. Of course, you didn't state it, but various other intangibles are more important too. At this point, and EBF mentions this, we do not know what Fargas is capable of because health issues have kept him off the field. He was drafted highly and should get a chance at some point to at least show if he can do something. What happens then is a subject of greater interest and one that's been touched upon here many times.

Your comparison to Taylor does not bode well for your argument here either, as Taylor has over 10,000 career total yards and 58 touchdowns. If Fargas gets to that point, most would agree he's had a successful career.

Put your stat book down for a minute and just realize the basics........Fred Taylor / Deshaun Foster / Chris Brown guys like this have been hurt ALOT and kill peoples Dynasty rosters because you wait and wait and wait. Fred Taylor did eventually pan out. That doesnt mean people didnt get burnt by him for 4 years in a row.

An important thing to remember:Fargas doesn't need to become LaDainian Tomlinson in order to be a worthwhile dynasty pickup. If he stays healthy and has a couple of good games then his value will skyrocket. Then you can trade him for more than you spent to get him. That's how you accumulate talent in dynasty.

A good example is Lee Suggs. He's talented, but fragile. That didn't prevent him from being a consensus top 100 dynasty player a couple years back after ripping off a streak of three 100 yard games. You could've traded him for a good draft pick or player back then.

 

[Sleeper 43]

Why hasn't Fargus played much? I don't believe that he had changed teams or was waiting behind some other RB for his turn at starting. Please correct me if I am wrong.

2003 - Fargas was behind Tyrone Wheatley and Charlie Garner, who had combined for 2,393 total yards the previous year.2004 - I think Fargas was dealing with turf toe this year. He was part of a weak RBC with Zack Crockett, Amos Zereoue, and Tyrone Wheatley.

2005 - Fargas was behind LaMont Jordan.

So basically it's been a combination of injuries and the presence of quality veterans like Garner and Jordan.

EBF 2003 he had his chance. There was pre-season hype and he had every opportunity in the world to be in the RBBC mix and failed to impress the coaching staff. Wheatley and Garner were well past thier prime at that point and Fargas had fresh legs.

 

[Dave Baker]

Do we have any RBs we can point to who had serious injury problems in college, injury problems in their first 3 NFL seasons, and then finally developed thereafter into productive RBs?

I would imagine there aren't many that remain on NFL rosters at that point, so it would be a small sample to just get there.But can you name any RBs who had serious injury problems in college and in their first NFL seasons and were given the opportunity to start afterwards?

 

[EBF]

Why hasn't Fargus played much? I don't believe that he had changed teams or was waiting behind some other RB for his turn at starting. Please correct me if I am wrong.

2003 - Fargas was behind Tyrone Wheatley and Charlie Garner, who had combined for 2,393 total yards the previous year.2004 - I think Fargas was dealing with turf toe this year. He was part of a weak RBC with Zack Crockett, Amos Zereoue, and Tyrone Wheatley.

2005 - Fargas was behind LaMont Jordan.

So basically it's been a combination of injuries and the presence of quality veterans like Garner and Jordan.

EBF 2003 he had his chance. There was pre-season hype and he had every opportunity in the world to be in the RBBC mix and failed to impress the coaching staff. Wheatley and Garner were well past thier prime at that point and Fargas had fresh legs.

The Raiders made the Super Bowl in 2002 with Garner and Wheatley. Those two backs combined for 2,393 total yards in that season. If ain't broke...

 

[pinequick]

Do we have any RBs we can point to who had serious injury problems in college, injury problems in their first 3 NFL seasons, and then finally developed thereafter into productive RBs?

I would imagine there aren't many that remain on NFL rosters at that point, so it would be a small sample to just get there.But can you name any RBs who had serious injury problems in college and in their first NFL seasons and were given the opportunity to start afterwards?

If I can't ( ) is that supposed to somehow make me have *more* faith in your argument? Because that would seem to be the track that Fargas is on--a RB who had serious injury problems in college and in his first 3 NFL seasons, and will likely never be given the opportunity to start thereafter.

 

[Sleeper 43]

I guess I feel strongly about him becasue I was the guy on the opposite side in 03 thinking he would be a super sleeper.

Everytime hes been given the opportunity though he fails, plain and simple. when he did play he was very indecisive and was looking like a deer in the headllights

Bottom line is his track record had shown it might be time to cut ties.

You want to pick him up in your last few rounds , go for it, I can understand how thier isnt too much risk at that point.

Even if hes got his vision down and knows the playbook inside and out he is very frail.

The idea of "hoping" he could pan out a for a few games and flip him quickly like Suggs is the best case scenario I see for an owner whos looking to aquire Fargas.

I would rather have Adrian Peterson who is buried on the depth chart and should be thier around Fargas. But could emerge in FA down the road.