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Report: Omicron is much more contagious - Discussion on severity (1 Viewer)

Here he is again

First, the whole analysis hinges on the idea that age-sex matched kids without covid should be comparable to the kids who got covid in terms of risk of diabetes. The only difference between the kids should be that some, unfortunately, had covid. But COVID may be more likely to affect kids of lower socioeconomic status, of certain races, and kids who were already overweight or suffering from medical problems.

Does the CDC attempt to correct for any of these confounders? Not at all. They surely have height and weight, and could adjust for BMI, but do not. I am truly puzzled as to why.
If true this is shocking, this is basic data analysis.  This sort of flawed analysis plagues so much of the "science" that we see today with regard to covid and social issues (wage gap another example).

 
Someone may someday ask if it made sense to boost 12-year-old boys with essentially no efficacy data...

isn't that the truth ? taking a group of people (18 and younger) that has had what, 400 deaths in 2 years with almost all of them dying from something else but having covid and pushing shots/boosters

its unreal - truly
Agreed.  Particularly now that the vaxxed can get and spread almost as readily as the unvaxxed.

 
Yes...see lifetime limits on cancer treatments.  A majority of those plans meet their max in the first or second year of treatment.  That's why additional cancer insurance exists.  Of course, this changed a bit with Obamacare, but it happened all the time prior to that.


Why is it you guys keep moving the goalposts?  The original poster I replied to now is using higher rates for smokers to justify his original statement of REFUSING HOSPITAL beds to unvaxxed Covid sufferers, now you're talking about lifetime limits.  That is NOT what I replied to.  Full stop.

 
Why is it you guys keep moving the goalposts?  The original poster I replied to now is using higher rates for smokers to justify his original statement of REFUSING HOSPITAL beds to unvaxxed Covid sufferers, now you're talking about lifetime limits.  That is NOT what I replied to.  Full stop.
I answered your question.  Cancer is a commonly rejected claim on standard insurance.  It's been hard to find ANY standard plans that provide meaningful cancer coverage.  That's why supplemental cancer insurance exists.  Below are the two posts I saw before I replied.  I didn't see where he said to refuse a hospital bed to unvaxxed patients.  Can you point it out to me?  The only shifting of goalposts that I've seen in this exchange is going from "refusing insurance coverage" to "refusing treatment", but I'm open to the possibility that I missed something.

They will still clog up the hospital.  This will just leave you with a bunch on bankrupt unvaccinated people.  

But maybe not offering insurance for a Covid hospital stay would have pushed more people to get vaccinated.


Wow.  Pretty sure if this had ever been tried in the past insurance companies would have been accused of letting people die in the name of profits.  Have we ever done this for insurance for any legit disease in the past, ever?  Seems like a dangerous precedent to set.

 
This really has nothing to do with what was being discussed....at all.  If you go back and read what I actually said you'd see I stated specifically that we need to be running things through the existing insurance process.  So, whatever your current insurance says it will cover, they will cover.  Pre-existing conditions aren't part of the equation at all.  Your insurance would pay for COVID treatments just like it would any other viral treatments and you'd pay the rest, just like with any other viral treatments.
If you don't have insurance and get covid should you be able to get insurance?

 
I answered your question.  Cancer is a commonly rejected claim on standard insurance.  It's been hard to find ANY standard plans that provide meaningful cancer coverage.  That's why supplemental cancer insurance exists.  Below are the two posts I saw before I replied.  I didn't see where he said to refuse a hospital bed to unvaxxed patients.  Can you point it out to me?  The only shifting of goalposts that I've seen in this exchange is going from "refusing insurance coverage" to "refusing treatment", but I'm open to the possibility that I missed something.


So now we've gone from lifetime limits to flat out denying claims.  As someone who has known a number of people who dealt with cancer, some successfully and some not so much, I disagree.  Ok, we're done here. 

 
I like this guy

Vinay Prasad, MD MPH 

@VPrasadMDMPH

·

Jan 7

Optimize your medical problems, lose weight, get vaccinated, and get on with life. That was always the right answer. Everything else is a fools errand.

Oh. And, For all the people who think masks will keep flu away forever. Flu will find us all soon and it will punish us twice as bad for avoiding it. There is no avoiding respiratory viruses. They only exist because we must be close to each other to truly live.
I agree with the gist of what he says but it sounds like he has an agenda. Getting vaxxed should be first and it wasn't the answer before there was a vaccine for almost a year. Social isolation made sense in the beginning, and around immunocompromised people. Good luck with losing weight. And what does "Optimize your medical problems" mean?

Indeed I think he does have a personal agenda:

Did Vinay Prasad need to mention the Nazis to make a point on the U.S. pandemic response?

 
Why is it you guys keep moving the goalposts?  The original poster I replied to now is using higher rates for smokers to justify his original statement of REFUSING HOSPITAL beds to unvaxxed Covid sufferers, now you're talking about lifetime limits.  That is NOT what I replied to.  Full stop.
They do this all the time

 
Why is it you guys keep moving the goalposts?  The original poster I replied to now is using higher rates for smokers to justify his original statement of REFUSING HOSPITAL beds to unvaxxed Covid sufferers, now you're talking about lifetime limits.  That is NOT what I replied to.  Full stop.
I hope you weren't referring to my post.  I was talking about refusing insurance (or charging much higher insurance rates).  If it was me, can you refer to the post where I said to refuse someone a hospital bed.

 
I agree with the gist of what he says but it sounds like he has an agenda. Getting vaxxed should be first and it wasn't the answer before there was a vaccine for almost a year. Social isolation made sense in the beginning, and around immunocompromised people. Good luck with losing weight. And what does "Optimize your medical problems" mean?

Indeed I think he does have a personal agenda:

Did Vinay Prasad need to mention the Nazis to make a point on the U.S. pandemic response?
I think people may conflate things like “I think he goes to far” and “he has an agenda”.

He obvious has some firm opinions, as do most people that opine on this topic.  Whats important to me is how he supports them.  

What’s his agenda?  Does this agenda discredit any thesis he presents?

 
I think people may conflate things like “I think he goes to far” and “he has an agenda”.

He obvious has some firm opinions, as do most people that opine on this topic.  Whats important to me is how he supports them.  

What’s his agenda?  Does this agenda discredit any thesis he presents?
"Optimize your medical problems, lose weight, get vaccinated, and get on with life. That was always the right answer. Everything else is a fools errand."

There was no vaccine for almost a year, so it wasn't the right answer for almost a year. Is isolating or wearing good masks around immunocompromised cancer or transplant patients a fools errand? 

 
"Optimize your medical problems, lose weight, get vaccinated, and get on with life. That was always the right answer. Everything else is a fools errand."

There was no vaccine for almost a year, so it wasn't the right answer for almost a year. Is isolating or wearing good masks around immunocompromised cancer or transplant patients a fools errand? 
I dunno, I think when he says getting vaxxed is part of the right answer it is to be assumed the statement applies to the time when the vaxx existed.  
 

To your second point I’m sure he’s addressing the very large instances that most of the public debate is around (schools, retail, restaurants, beaches, etc) that applies to 99% of interactions.  I think trying to formulate corner cases to discredit the broad statement is not helpful.  I’d rather you say I disagree and wearing masks in schools or restaurants makes sense.  In which case I’d say thats a good difference of opinion , but doesn’t mean he “has an agenda”.
 

If you have evidence he thinks wearing masks is not a good idea around immune compromised or other corner cases I’d be interested in seeing it.

 
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I agree with the gist of what he says but it sounds like he has an agenda. Getting vaxxed should be first and it wasn't the answer before there was a vaccine for almost a year. 
Well, duh.  It's pretty obvious that the guy means that this is how it should have been since vaccines were available, not from March 2020. 

When you see somebody making an argument that you think is obviously and transparently stupid, you should stop and ask yourself if maybe you're misinterpreting them.  "Getting vaccinated should have always been the main thing since this pandemic started in the spring of 2020" is obviously a very dumb argument, but it shouldn't be hard to see that that's not what he's saying. 

 
More generally, people need to stop pretending that the situation before vaccines were available was qualitatively similar to the situation since vaccines became available.  These are night-and-day different circumstances.  Anybody arguing for the same set of policies during both periods should be under lots of scrutiny one way or the other.

 
So now we've gone from lifetime limits to flat out denying claims.  As someone who has known a number of people who dealt with cancer, some successfully and some not so much, I disagree.  Ok, we're done here. 
Both are examles of what you were asking for. Sorey you dont like the answers I guess. :shrug:

 
So now we've gone from lifetime limits to flat out denying claims.  As someone who has known a number of people who dealt with cancer, some successfully and some not so much, I disagree.  Ok, we're done here. 
Both are examples of how insurance companies refuse coverage.  Take your pick.  Reality is, the tactic is common despite you not realizing that.  That said, I do agree it's over.  It was likely over when you were accusing people of moving goal posts while at the same time attempting to equate "But maybe not offering insurance for a Covid hospital stay would have pushed more people to get vaccinated." with "REFUSING HOSPITAL beds to unvaxxed Covid sufferers".

It was a completely incorrect interpretation, but given the new year, thought some examples of what he was actually saying were worth it for benefit of the doubt.  Still not good enough for you, so we can move on.

 
We have a set or rules and processes to obtaining insurance already established.  We'd follow those.  No idea why you'd think that would have to change just because one gets COVID :shrug:  
I don't.  But all this covid punishment stuff seems more you and Chaz's thing.    

 
More generally, people need to stop pretending that the situation before vaccines were available was qualitatively similar to the situation since vaccines became available.  These are night-and-day different circumstances.  Anybody arguing for the same set of policies during both periods should be under lots of scrutiny one way or the other.
Scrutinize away.

 
Are you guys getting your frequent shopper cards stamped? LINK


:lol:   Wow.

Although, I have to admit that whoever started this gets innovation credits in my book.  He saw a money-making opportunity with the lemmings and struck fast.

I can't knock it at all.  Anytime you can separate a fool from his/her money is a quality investment.

 
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RavenFan said:
Agreed.  Particularly now that the vaxxed can get and spread almost as readily as the unvaxxed.


they always have been able to  -  though I admit, the use of the word "breakthrough" fooled a lot of people

 
quick-hands said:
I don't.  But all this covid punishment stuff seems more you and Chaz's thing.    
Then why ask the question?  Not sure I understand honestly.  All I said needed to happen was payments get back to our SOP process we have with insurance companies.  Process who pays for what the way we do with everything else.  The rest is dishonestly created straw man arguments by others.  Yourself included it seems.

 
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It’s a good test to see how we fare against other places with low vaccination rates.  Last I checked we were among the most vaccinated large counties in the country.
So, not at peak yet. Daily cases jumped again yesterday with 4,385 reported. Putting our 7 day rate at 2.14K per 100K. So, 2.14% of our county got Omicron last week (and reported it, actual number probably significantly higher).

We had a couple days where it held steady, kinda bummed it kept climbing.

 
So, I read over the weekend that some researchers are thinking Omicron came from mice. As in, we gave mice an earlier strain and they mutated it into Omicron and now we have it.

I guess the thoughts of zero-Covid are officially dead. If this thing is hopping species that easily now, we're not vaccinating our way to zero-Covid. Whatever omicron specific boosters come out, they'll be a day late and dollar short because we'll have moved from Omicron to flurona to Deltacron to that new variant they found in France to like 5 more different variants potentially.

The last hope I'm hanging my hat on is the universal coronavirus vaccine they're testing at Walter Reed. Please, please, please let that thing work well.

 
So, I read over the weekend that some researchers are thinking Omicron came from mice. As in, we gave mice an earlier strain and they mutated it into Omicron and now we have it.


its always been around, always will be around and the true sources of variants are most often guesses and undetermined ..... and with the below information its easy to see/understand the planet will never be rid of coronaviruses because we don' control the animal world ...

Coronaviruses didn't just pop up recently. They're a large family of viruses that have been around for a long time. Many of them can cause a variety of illnesses, from a mild cough to severe respiratory illnesses.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-strains#1

However, animals can sometimes carry harmful germs that can spread to people and cause illness – these are known as zoonotic diseases or zoonoses. Zoonotic diseases are caused by harmful germs like viruses, bacterial, parasites, and fungi. These germs can cause many different types of illnesses in people and animals, ranging from mild to serious illness and even death. 

https://www.cdc.gov/onehealth/basics/zoonotic-diseases.html

 
:lol:   Wow.

Although, I have to admit that whoever started this gets innovation credits in my book.  He saw a money-making opportunity with the lemmings and struck fast.

I can't knock it at all.  Anytime you can separate a fool from his/her money is a quality investment.


There is a chain of "Let's go Brandon" stores back east somewhere. 

 
So, I read over the weekend that some researchers are thinking Omicron came from mice. As in, we gave mice an earlier strain and they mutated it into Omicron and now we have it.

I guess the thoughts of zero-Covid are officially dead. If this thing is hopping species that easily now, we're not vaccinating our way to zero-Covid. Whatever omicron specific boosters come out, they'll be a day late and dollar short because we'll have moved from Omicron to flurona to Deltacron to that new variant they found in France to like 5 more different variants potentially.

The last hope I'm hanging my hat on is the universal coronavirus vaccine they're testing at Walter Reed. Please, please, please let that thing work well.
Honestly, this was never really alive.  The hope is that as this thing mutates into new strands it becomes less and less virulent and eventually is generally ignorable.  Omicron seems to be trending that way.  

 
With all the "free" money our government has been printing and handing out everyone should be able to afford LGB gear.
Ironically I got more "free" money last year than this year.   I just have trouble understanding when the economy is in the ####ter for people and when it's not, I guess.   in one thread we are getting free money and these wonderful businesses are flourishing, in another thread people are barely scraping by. 

 
Ironically I got more "free" money last year than this year.   I just have trouble understanding when the economy is in the ####ter for people and when it's not, I guess.   in one thread we are getting free money and these wonderful businesses are flourishing, in another thread people are barely scraping by. 


This is a very large country, with a wide disparity of income levels.  Even it it's worst our unemployment levels were still what, less than 10 percent?  But I wish I would have gotten some "free" money.  I haven't gotten a penny.  I just have to help pay for everyone who did get it.  But I'm ok with helping my fellow Americans. 

 
This is a very large country, with a wide disparity of income levels.  Even it it's worst our unemployment levels were still what, less than 10 percent?  But I wish I would have gotten some "free" money.  I haven't gotten a penny.  I just have to help pay for everyone who did get it.  But I'm ok with helping my fellow Americans. 
Oh, I get it.   just an attempt a poking the narrative I see in these threads.  It's usually not anything like the bolded.  

 
Oh, I get it.   just an attempt a poking the narrative I see in these threads.  It's usually not anything like the bolded.  


Well, yeah.  The liberals want us all to believe that everyone is broke and we need to keep passing multi trillion dollar handout bills to keep the country afloat. 

 
why do you say that? 
Losing weight is one of the hardest things for most people to do and maintain. Something like 80% of the weight loss during diets is regained within 5 years. I'd put getting a vaccine first and foremost to stop the current surge in hospital admissions and get us back to normal faster, since dieting will have no impact at all on the current crisis. 

 
CDC is finally going to revise the covid death numbers and sperate those who died from covid from those who died with covid.  This should be interesting.  

 
CDC director: "The overwhelming number of deaths, over 75% occurred in people who had at least 4 comorbidities"
Is she talking about omicron specifically, or all covid-19 deaths?  Also, is this all-time since the start of the pandemic or just for the post-vaccine era?

Edit: Regardless, 4+ comorbidities is an awful lot.  It gently suggests that maybe we shouldn't be too terribly worried about whether kids are wearing N95s in social studies or not.

 
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Losing weight is one of the hardest things for most people to do and maintain. Something like 80% of the weight loss during diets is regained within 5 years. I'd put getting a vaccine first and foremost to stop the current surge in hospital admissions and get us back to normal faster, since dieting will have no impact at all on the current crisis. 


actually its not hard 

I could drop pounds off anybody, anytime if they'd simply eat less, exercise more -  its a simple combination that gets really good results

the vaccines/shots are not stopping covid - that is clear.  

I think more and more BMI / body weight and lifestyles are going to have to be a part of health care costs. If you are 25 years old, BMI 15, biometric exams every 6 months, no drugs, no smoking etc ... very little cost to you because you're not going to take from the system

If you're 25, BMI 38, recreational pot and vaping, don't excercise ... you need to pay a lot lot more because you are the person that's going to tax the health care system

The above is a comparable to charging more for a guy with DUI's on his record than a person with a clear record

 

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