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Requiring a Starting TE is Stoopid (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter drunken slob
- Start date
There has been quite a bit of turnover as far as offensive coordinators and QBs, IIRC. I think this was the first season where he's got some continuity. He's on a torrid pace this year - it has to slow down a little (he's not going to have 112 rec on the year... right?), but if he's not a top 3 TE at year end, I'll be surprised.
It makes more sense than giving points for receptionsdrunken slob said:Please tell me why any league would require a starting TE position. I'm not going to bash you either way.
Just seeking justification for a lineup requirement for such a crappy position in today's magic football leagues. Maybe one of you smart guys can convince me otherwise. TIA
spider321
Footballguy
I don't like either, but this statement is true.It makes more sense than giving points for receptions
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I actually agree with this. He's one of the most overvalued players on this board. 14 TDs in five years - career high is 4 - is not a small sample size. He's been a TE8-TE-14 tier guy since he came in the league. I don't think he'll be top 6 TE in full PPR for the season when we're unwrapping presents.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Ertz has been everyone's preseason breakout TE pick for years now. You're not exactly ahead of the curve here. More like late to the party, and most folks have already left.
But who knows, maybe this is the year.
I don't know why you would use TDs to determine his value. They are such a volatile stat. But we can dig into those numbers, I guess. Think about it this way... rookie TEs always start slow, so let's ignore his rookie year where he caught a very reasonable 1 TD per 9 rec. In his next 3 years he played with a hodge podge of QBs that ranked 24th in the league in passing TDs so I don't know how anyone could expect him to put up big TD numbers. Kelce seems pretty popular here, yet he's not exactly a TD magnet, either (also likely due to situation). So far Wentz has 5 goal line attempts and 2 have gone to Ertz. On the whole, Ertz has gotten 24% of Wentz's targets. If Wentz takes a step forward in passing TDs this year, Ertz should snag at least 5-6.
Ertz is a year younger than Kelce. Had Ertz not gotten injured last year, resulting in a very slow start, we might've been talking about last year being his breakout and this year he'd be one of the priciest TEs instead of being a bargain at TE8.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Except I only play redraft and haven't been high on him untill this year. So it looks like my timing to the party was perfect.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Because they count for 6 points?
It's data, the sample size is sufficient, and the usage/utilization in the RZ has been consistent. After 5 years you can't keep saying "TDs are variable." Same deal with Diggs, great route runner, PPR pinball machine, but he doesn't score. Different reasons (burner speed, size for jump balls & fades) but the point is TDs are a heck of a lot more predictable than people think they are. Week to week, of course now. Over time, it is not a volatile stat IMO based on other research I've done. I could be wrong and I know I'm outside the consensus opinion "TDs are variable", but I believe independent thinking has served me well.
TEs with more RZ catches than Ertz:
2017 - Clay, Fleener, Rudolph, Witten*
2016 - Bennett, Brate, Clay, Doyle, Fleener, Gates, Henry, James, Kelce, Olsen, Pitta, Reed, Rudolph, Tamme, Witten**
2015 - Allen, Barnidge, Bennett, Cameron, Carrier, B. Celek, G. Celek, Chandler, Davis, Daniels, Dickson, Donnell, Ebron, Eifert, Fleener, Gates, Gilmore, Green, Gronk, Hardy, Hoomanawanui, Kelce, Olsen, McDonald, Miller, Reece, Reed, Rodgers, Rudolph, Thomas, Walker, Watson, Whalen, Witten
2013 & 2014 - Happy to do these if you like but I think you get the picture. Some pretty mediocre talent on the above lists. BTW, I probably missed a few, I did this by eyeballing RZ target lists that weren't filtered so I probably missed several.
Another metric: % of RZ targets. Ertz was is 28th this year, 15th a year ago amongst TEs.
Prefer targets over receptions? Number of TEs with more targets 2013-2017:
2017 - 6 (1 TD)
2016 - 15 (4 TD)
2015 - 18 (2 TD)
2014 - 8 (3 TD)
2013 - 37 (4 TD)
Mercedes Lewis catching three TDs is variable, unsustainable, unrepeatable. Zack Ertz finishing a season with 4 TDs or less has been a fact four years.
Maybe this year is different.
Anyway, he's a good TE. I just don't view him as elite, and he has never been a guy I targeted (actually I consciously avoid him.) More Ertz shares for everyone else, it's all good.
Same OC, same HC, same QB as last year. Not sure why your outlook would be any brighter than it was this time last season.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Let's see. Wentz favorite target was traded. Ertz was his second favorite target prior to Matthews leaving. Simple math helps.Same OC, same HC, same QB as last year. Not sure why your outlook would be any brighter than it was this time last season.
You think Jordan Matthews leaving and Alshon Jeffery coming in is a net win for Ertz? Interesting.Let's see. Wentz favorite target was traded. Ertz was his second favorite target prior to Matthews leaving. Simple math helps.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I'm not sure how others are not seeing this. This was a huge reason why I wanted Ertz this year. That and the fact that I could get him late in my draft, typically taken as the tenth TE in most drafts.Let's see. Wentz favorite target was traded. Ertz was his second favorite target prior to Matthews leaving. Simple math helps.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Topics bashing other leagues' rules and/or positional starting requirements are among the best in the Shark Pool.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
My league's rules are way better than your league's rules. It's the best, probably better than any league rules anyone has ever seen. Trust me because I probably know more about rules than anyone I know.
The Gator
Footballguy
Same OC, same HC, same QB as last year. Not sure why your outlook would be any brighter than it was this time last season.
Tangfoot alias?
Weebs210
Footballguy
Sure, they're worth 6 points, but Kelce finished TE1 last year with TDs counting for just 10.8% of his scoring in PPR. So unless you play in a better scoring system than PPR (of which there are a few), then TDs aren't that big of a deal.
But I think you missed the main point - in the past 3 years, Ertz has played with different, sub-par QBs in each season. I'm not going to draw long-term conclusions about him or his usage based on those 3 seasons. The only thing that I saw which mattered to me was that he developed some chemistry with Ertz last year after he worked his way back from injury. If you look at the last 12 games on his game log, I think you've got to like what you see. And nine of those 12 games were available to view before the season started. The past 3 look very similar to those last 9 from 2016.
At this time last season, the Wentz-Ertz connection was an unknown. Ertz got hurt in week 1 during a 6 reception game. It wasn't until later in the year that it became obvious that Wentz favored Ertz.Same OC, same HC, same QB as last year. Not sure why your outlook would be any brighter than it was this time last season.
The Gator
Footballguy
Yes, taking away a WR that mostly ran routes in the middle of the field(where Ertz is) and adding a nice outside target, seems like a good formula for freeing up Ertz, imo.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I've got my issues at TE this year, but the solution isn't to complain about how a TE requirement is dumb or to get rid of it. The solution is to put TE at a higher priority.
In my defense, I thought I did with Graham at TE4 or 5, but it is what it is and I may still be okay with that pick yet... time will tell. Henry didn't help me this last week, that's for sure
I just think it's funny that people complain about a position because they ignored it during the draft and are getting owned in their league because of it
Weebs210
Footballguy
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Yeah we just start a second kicker, just to keep up the skill level. Another defense also works.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
bad example. I agree with you for the most part, but Gronk lines up a lot as a tight end.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I drafted Eifert for this reason. That's working out great.
I've got my issues at TE this year, but the solution isn't to complain about how a TE requirement is dumb or to get rid of it. The solution is to put TE at a higher priority.
In my defense, I thought I did with Graham at TE4 or 5, but it is what it is and I may still be okay with that pick yet... time will tell. Henry didn't help me this last week, that's for sure
I just think it's funny that people complain about a position because they ignored it during the draft and are getting owned in their league because of it
I took Witten in the 14th because I remembered he's always hurt. But drafting on my iPhone while driving down the NYS Thruway, I kind of missed the whole both-have-a-week-six-bye.
Put Eifert on IR, picked up Doyle.
At this point I'm thinking of literally throwing a dart for that Week 6 bye. Witten has been and will continue to be my starter, but there is no upside to that solution. Not feeling Clay, Howard, MIller, Watson, et al. But other than that exceptional 2015 season - tons of great TE seasons - does it really matter so much? I really don't see TE as being the cornerstone of league championships.
Small sample size anecdote from my 25 year league:
2012 - Gronk
2013 - Orange Julius
2014 - Witten
2015 - Reed
2016 - Ebron/Reed
Hmmm....maybe I'm wrong. Gronk missed 5 games but scored 11 in 11, Thomas had one of his 12 TD years, Witten was solid nothing special, Reed blew up, last year's champ didn't get anything out of either. Kind of hit and/or miss. I just feel like back when you could get Gates at the 2/3 turn and have a massive advantage, that was easy peasy. Now you either overpay for Gronk (messes up a lot of drafts) or get one before the run. My Eifert pick was near the end of a run, I would have had Cameron Brate if I didn't take him.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Yeah, and he's a run run blocker. There are also games from time to time where he sees few targets because he is max protecting. He is a true TE.
ffinmyblood
Footballguy
Gee, I don't know...NFL teams play TE's, so your fantasy team should to. It's really that simple.
Exactly!
All you clowns who aren't starting punters in your leagues need to get with the program!
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
And punters put their teams closer to scoring, and farther from letting the opposition score.
Every bit as important as that TD-less WR.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Not remotely at all in any possible way. Punts are nothing but failed drives. A sixty yard line drive punt that is returned 50 yards is a lot worse than a 40 punt with no return. Punters don't advance their offense. Not many guys score 90 yard tds so a receiver getting the ball inside the 10 with a 50 yard gain is a little more important than a 30 yard punt versus 40. I haven't seen a lot of punters win mvps or get paid, etc etc etc
drunken slob
Footballguy
Just handed out about 50 likes to a variety of posts.
Want to thank all the contributors to this topic.
Can't believe that this made it to three pages.
Want to thank all the contributors to this topic.
Can't believe that this made it to three pages.
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drunken slob
Footballguy
shadyridr said:
Weebs210
Footballguy
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SameSongNDance
Footballguy
1.5PPR for TEs is where it's at.
