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Rex Grossman or John Beck? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gbill2004
- Start date
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Skins fan here. Unless Beck clearly outplays him, it's got to be Grossman. I don't care what the media thinks it knows, they've been regurgitating the same quotes from 2 months ago constantly. If Grossman is clearly the better option, as I believe he will continue to prove to be, he'll start.
Anonymous Internet User
Footballguy
Rex will be used during the 2 minute drill
SammyJankis
Footballguy
Maybe stating the obvious but...
I think the coaching staff loves Beck and he'll be their starter. For FF purposes though, I aim to stay far far away in all leagues. (Including my 16 team dynasty league - no thanks.)
I think the coaching staff loves Beck and he'll be their starter. For FF purposes though, I aim to stay far far away in all leagues. (Including my 16 team dynasty league - no thanks.)
loose circuits
Footballguy
too early to tell. If beck doesn't look good tonight, have to believe it will be Grossman because he seems improved
Go DC Yourself
Footballguy
The best indication will be who gets to play against Baltimore's first stringers next week.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
It's going to be Beck, it always was going to be Beck, and anyone who doesn't get that hasn't been paying close enough attention to the words of either Shanahan. It almost doesn't matter what you see on the field in preseason, he's their guy and they want to see what he can do when the bullets are flying for real. They already know what they have in Grossman -- a backup -- and they need to learn whether they have more than that in Beck. He'll start Week 1, that's a certainty.
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Eastwood
Footballguy
loose circuits
Footballguy
do you have a link to that quoting Shanny? or are you one of the zillion bloggers assuming?http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/shanahan-says-hes-never-insinuated-john-beck-is-his-starter/2011/08/08/gIQAPNzO2I_blog.html
T with T
Footballguy
Beck and its pretty easy question to answer... Did it even have to be asked?
Hoss Style
Footballguy
I'm so glad we got rid of Shanny here in Denver before he started going insane.
And I'd guess Beck.
And I'd guess Beck.
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
If the answer is a 29 year old QB who hasn't been more than an emergency QB since his rookie year 4 years ago, who has a career QB rating of 62, and who sat on the bench last year playing for the same team and the same coach in favor of the the guy he's currently competing against, yeah, I'd say the question needed to be asked.The question should really just be WTF?Beck and its pretty easy question to answer... Did it even have to be asked?
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Yes. Such great things have happened for your team since he left.
The thing is, we know that Grossman is a barely adequate QB. Lower tier of NFL QB's. We think that Beck is probably an inadequate QB, but no one really knows how he has developed sitting on the sidelines (no one knew about Rodgers, either). So, if you are Shanny, do you go with the dead cert lower tier, or do you roll the dice with Beck. If you are wrong about Beck, and you probably are, you know what you need to do in next year's draft.If the answer is a 29 year old QB who hasn't been more than an emergency QB since his rookie year 4 years ago, who has a career QB rating of 62, and who sat on the bench last year playing for the same team and the same coach in favor of the the guy he's currently competing against, yeah, I'd say the question needed to be asked.The question should really just be WTF?Beck and its pretty easy question to answer... Did it even have to be asked?
Couch Potato
Footballguy
There are specific quotes from both Shanahans. Do your own research, you know how. Don't ask me to go back and find it again for you. I read it days ago.
Hoss Style
Footballguy
What happened after Shanny left has anything to do with my opinion of him going insane in Washington?Let me flip that for you:"Yes. Such great things have happened for your team (Washington) since he arrived.Yes. Such great things have happened for your team since he left.
"We are back on the up with Fox. It just took us a few years to get rid of the little Twit (McDaniels).
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loose circuits
Footballguy
yeah, ok
apparently you didn't even take the time to read that link I provided where shanny specifically says he's never named a starter
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
A few years? Do you even follow your own team? Shanahan is doing great things for Washington right now. The McNabb debacle is over, and was an anomaly, judging by everything else.What happened after Shanny left has anything to do with my opinion of him going insane in Washington?Let me flip that for you:"Yes. Such great things have happened for your team (Washington) since he arrived.Yes. Such great things have happened for your team since he left.
What happened after Shanny left has anything to do with my opinion of him going insane in Washington?Let me flip that for you:"Yes. Such great things have happened for your team (Washington) since he arrived.Yes. Such great things have happened for your team since he left.
He is rebuilding a pretty bad team from the ground up. So yes he has done a decent job since he arrived last year. Personally I think Allen and Shannahan are setting up this season so the fans won't revolt next year when they trade up to get Luck (If they don't get the #1)
Hoss Style
Footballguy
Na, I don't follow my own team because I used the word "few" instead of the exact number of years McDaniels was here.A few years? Do you even follow your own team? Shanahan is doing great things for Washington right now. The McNabb debacle is over, and was an anomaly, judging by everything else.What happened after Shanny left has anything to do with my opinion of him going insane in Washington?Let me flip that for you:Yes. Such great things have happened for your team since he left.
"Yes. Such great things have happened for your team (Washington) since he arrived.
We are back on the up with Fox. It just took us a few years to get rid of the little Twit (McDaniels).
Now, since we've gotten past the strongest point in your response lets hit the weaker part:
What is "everything else" that has proven the McNabb debacle was an anomaly? Your QB situation now? Or your RB situation?
I used to live in NC when it was called "Redskins country" by the locals before the Panthers got there. Most of my close friends are still 'Skins fans and are hardly as cheery about your team as you seem to be.
Now, I probably don't follow the Skins as closely as you do but I do remember that in 2007 they made the playoffs. After the Zorn experiment they hired Shanny, I believe. Correct so far?
So other than the "McNabb debacle" what has Shanny done?
I know many Redskins fans blame the owner but in my opinion Shanny has made some questionable moves, at best.
Forgive any numerical errors I may have made not related to the topic at hand.
Hoss Style
Footballguy
This response makes sense. Fair enough.I talk to my buddies back home frequently and they aren't quite as upbeat as you, though they hope this years roster revamp is a step in the right direction.My last response wasn't an attack on your team, really, or the job that Shanny's done. Didn't mean to encroach into the average Skins fan's zone. It was more a response to the guy who had a problem with me jokingly calling Shanny "insane". He's just done some really weird stuff with QB's his last years in Denver and his early one's in Washington.I'd never tell my buddies this but I secretly pull for the Skins after my Broncos and Panthers.What happened after Shanny left has anything to do with my opinion of him going insane in Washington?Let me flip that for you:"Yes. Such great things have happened for your team (Washington) since he arrived.Yes. Such great things have happened for your team since he left.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
Gawain
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
What Shanahan said is technically correct -- he never publicly named a starter. What Shanahan didn't say is that he told Adam Schefter during the offseason that Beck would be the starter, so that Schefter could report it reliably as coming from an unnamed source.
fatness
Footballguy
You and I are both Skins fans but I differ with you on this. Shanahan has not done anything "great" in Washington. He taught the team how to practice, how to line up and run a play without the time clock expiring, things the team was never able to do under Jim Zorn (the Emmett Kelly of coaches). That's not greatness on Shanahan's part.He traded a 2nd and 4th round pick for McNabb, whom his own offensive coordinator did not want. He benched McNabb at the end of the Detroit game, when the entire Redskin team saw McNabb as a leader. Grossman entered the game and promptly threw a pick 6 to salt away the loss. The next week was a bye week, and in the 2 games following the by the Redskins were embarrassingly pummeled by the Eagles and the Giants. Shanahan undercut the guy the team recognized as a leader, and the team tanked for awhile as a result. No greatness there/Shanahan later traded McNabb for a 5th, wasn't it? No greatness there.Shanahan was the only front office person in NFL history who thought Albert Haynesworth should be a nose tackle. He then fought with Haynesworth all year in a big **** contest, basically creating a dead roster spot. This year Haynesworth was traded to New England. Is Belichick trying to make Haynesworth play nose tackle? Um, no. Shanahan refused to run more bootlegs and rollouts last year when McNabb requested them. The Redskin offensive line stunk and McNabb kept getting creamed. This year the Redskins use more bootlegs and rollouts. That's not greatness, it's becoming aware of something a year too late.Shanahan inherited a defense in which 2 players (Carter, Orakpo) had had double digit sacks the previous year running the 3-4 with Haynesworth at DT, and promptly implemented a 3-4 defense when the Redskins did not have the personnel to run such a defense. They consequently became the 30th best defense in the league. That's only greatness if you like big numbers. Carter is no longer with the team, since his position was eliminated and the Redskins finally figured out he couldn't play OLB where they had him playing much of the year. Learning things too late isn't greatness.Shanahan went into this season with John Beck and Rex Grossman as his options for starting QB. Hoping for miracles isn't greatness.A year later, it looks like the Skins drafted competently and signed some decent free agents, and credit is due them for that. That may raise Shanahan's record with Washington up to "average" if those signings play well and the QB miracle happens. But their record was 6-10, they stunk last year, and they've won 0 games so far this year, so there's been no greatness since he's been in Washington.
eakfootball
Footballguy
Beck, he actually looks alright.
loose circuits
Footballguy
i'm pretty sure he just said, we are fine if we have to start Beck or something of that nature since Beck was the only QB on the roster. At that point, Rex nor Kellen was even signed...what was he supposed to say?
valhallan
Footballguy
Shanny just refuses to name the starter and neither has played well enough or poorly enough to create an obvious gap. My hunch is Grossman starts the season but gets pulled around week 5, then it's Beck the rest of the way. Overall Beck certainly looks to have more upside and I'm excited to see him get his shot.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
My own analysis, based on everything I've read and heard, is that barring an injury or a complete meltdown between now and 9/11, Beck is going to be the starter. The coaches see Beck as the most talented qb on the roster.
valhallan
Footballguy
There's no question they see it that way, but the one thing giving me pause is how they held Beck back from taking even a single snap last season. They may be looking to keep him from live bullets as long as possible, reminiscent of Parcells' handling of Romo. If Grossman can keep the boat afloat for a few weeks, that might be more desirable to them then possibly killing Beck's confidence early. I think they very much want Beck to be the long-term answer more than they want him to be the week 1 starter.
You kind of know what you have in Grossman. A sort of decent quarterback who is capable of bouts of good/decent play, followed by some really, really poor plays. Probably not going to get you to the next level, but could do OK most games while losing a couple in very embarassing fashion.
Despite the universal dismissal of him, Beck is a pretty unknown quantity. How he played for five games in his rookie year for a really, really bad Miami team in 2007 doesn't seem terribly relevant. The fact he HASN'T played since then is seen as pretty damming, but I don't know.
Shanahan is a gambler. He wants the credit if his QB ends up doing better than expected. Beck seems to have the lower expectations and the higher ceiling, so I say he goes with Beck. But that's the extent of my "analysis". You might do better flipping a coin. Maybe that's what Shanny is doing!
Despite the universal dismissal of him, Beck is a pretty unknown quantity. How he played for five games in his rookie year for a really, really bad Miami team in 2007 doesn't seem terribly relevant. The fact he HASN'T played since then is seen as pretty damming, but I don't know.
Shanahan is a gambler. He wants the credit if his QB ends up doing better than expected. Beck seems to have the lower expectations and the higher ceiling, so I say he goes with Beck. But that's the extent of my "analysis". You might do better flipping a coin. Maybe that's what Shanny is doing!
Sounds about right...I expect Beck to start, fail miserably the first three games then Grossman to come in and perform OK.
The Hank
Footballguy
While I agree with the bolded part, I know that after Miami he was backup in Baltimore for a few years behind Flacco. I'm shocked though that last year, after all of the shoddy QB play, that he didnt get a snap.
From all the reports and tidbits I've read it feels like Beck will be the eventual starter if he doesn't start the first game. So I looked at the schedule.
NYG
AZ
@Dal
@STL
Bye
Not exactly a gauntlet but starting against the g men is gonna be tough. At Dallas is a tough matchup. Spags has the Rams D playing a whole lot better, they've turned over a lot of their roster. Az isn't a pushover.
I could see Shanny putting Grossman in for this run and switching to Beck at the bye. At that point the fans wont be asking for Grossman for the rest of the year regardless how it goes.
NYG
AZ
@Dal
@STL
Bye
Not exactly a gauntlet but starting against the g men is gonna be tough. At Dallas is a tough matchup. Spags has the Rams D playing a whole lot better, they've turned over a lot of their roster. Az isn't a pushover.
I could see Shanny putting Grossman in for this run and switching to Beck at the bye. At that point the fans wont be asking for Grossman for the rest of the year regardless how it goes.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Dallas is going to be in the running for the worst defense in the league this year. Giants will be tough (as always), but their secondary is decimated right now and the game is at home.Arizona's defense is average at best.
@STL might actually be the toughest matchup, as many people are underrating their defense.
I'm not buying this whole notion that Grossman will be the starter so he can fail and Beck can take over. That's nonsense.
The #1 reason Grossman saw the field last season and Beck didn't is because Grossman had 2 full years in Kyle Shanahan's offense, as compared to Beck, who barely had any experience in the system (they traded for Beck during the preseason last year).
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
Isn't that like having to choose between Rosie O'Donnell and Jocelyn Wildenstein?
valhallan
Footballguy
Right, and from week 17 to now Beck hasn't gotten nearly as much work with Kyle as they would have wanted. Isn't it possible they'd rather have him sit more?
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Pretty sure it just means they wanted more PT with the starters to evaluate Beck. Beck missed the first preseason game due to injury, so this evens up the preseason PT between Grossman and Beck.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Sure, it's possible. But only if they don't think he has a handle on the offense. I've heard, nor seen, anything that remotely suggests Beck doesn't have a good handle on the playbook. In fact, Shanahan has explicitly stated that he would be completely comfortable with either of them under center against the Giants.
