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RG3 and his receivers (5 Viewers)

duaneok66

duaneok66

Footballguy
I haven't seen a lot of conversation about the receivers in Washington.

Pierre Garcon is the unquestioned #1 and his probably on 100% of rosters, however he is dealing with a leg injury.

Josh Morgan is the other starter but only had one catch Sunday. He played on 75% on the snaps.

Santana Moss is the slot guy and he was on the field half the time. He had 3/47.

Aldrick Robinson filled in for Garcon after Garcon went off in the first quarter. Robinson managed to get 4/52/1.

Leonard Hankerson was expected to do more, yet he was only on the field 7% of the time.

Is Morgan a legitimate add here? We know one week does not make a trend, and maybe he's the guy to produce. Can Aldrick slide into that role opposite Garcon?

My point is that if RG3 continues to be a very good passing QB, then he should support at least two viable FF receivers. Garcon is locked down; I am looking to find the other one.

 
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I liked what I saw from Aldrick Robinson and I think he could emerge as the second most valuable wr in this offense if he sees the field enough. I think he could claim a starting spot moving forward if Garcon is out or limited this week and Robinson sees a good amount of snaps.

 
As a Fred Davis owner, I am a little concerned. While it is only week 1, and we can't necessarily presume too much based on 1 game, the fact is Davis was only targetted 4 times and only caught 2.

Now, on the one hand, if you look at the target breakdown:

A. Robinson -6

P. Garcon - 4

Santana Moss -4

F. Davis - 4

R. Helu - 3

J. Morgan -2

It seems (and again 1 week is hardly enough data to presume too much) that RG3 was simply "spreading the ball around" or hitting the open man. Keep in mind though, that Garcon left the game after the injury. Robinson took over his spot in the offense. If the targets had looked more like:

Garcon - 10

S. Moss - 4

F. Davis - 4, etc.

It actually muddies the situation. Garcon seems (again, 1 week) to be the clear "go to" pass catcher - not Davis. And the rest of the WRs would hardly be startable with 4 or less targets a week.

Even if RG3 is just looking for whoever is open, that doesn't necessarily bode well for Davis, as 4-5 looks a game isn't going to yield the type of production many had projected for him. Especially if Shanny wants to run the ball a ton. The fact is, Davis' 4 targets are half of what many of the TEs who were drafted near him got in week 1. It could be a long year if you drafted Davis as your TE1.

In terms of which is the "2nd receiver" I think we'll have to wait a week and see what the number look like. Moss is always criminally underrated - but Robinson clearly showed something. If I were a betting man, it's one of those two. But which one remains to be seen.

 
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news is sounding more pessimistic on Garcon. Aldrick stepped in nicely last week. Interested to see what he can do with a full game of snaps. Rams do have Cortland Finnegan, not sure if he'd be on Aldrick or not, that could be limiting.

 
Skins homer here. Imo...

-RG3 is absolutely legit and will be a top 5 FF QB this year. They will continue to open up the playbook and demonstrate full trust in him.

-Garcon was only on the field for 8 snaps, Garcon looked great in preseason, they gave Garcon a big contract this offseason. Imo this is very similar to Steve Smith situation last year. I have him in 3/4 of my leagues and think he is a STRONG BUY. If he hadn't gotten hurt, there is no way you could get him this cheaply right now. Before the Thursday night game I traded LeSean McCoy for Forte/Garcon and felt great about it.

-The other WRs are all mediocre. Santana Moss can still turn in some big plays though, and while I expect him to be inconsistent from week to week, I think he will end up as a reasonable WR4 who you can plug in on bye weeks. If you can get an owner to include him as a throw-in then take it. I would expect his game log to look like 4/30/0, 2/20/0, 4/125/2, 1/15/0, 3/45/0, etc.

-Fred Davis is what we thought he is coming into the year- a solid fantasy TE1, but not an elite TE1. Week 1 was a mixed bag for his value- he didn't have a ton of targets, but that offense looked 10x better than expected. I think hes a high variance player because he could put up big TD numbers since that offense will score more than we thought.

-Their depth is decent at WR, their RBs can catch(yet Morris, their starter, will not be the primary pass catching RB) and RG3 has shown a willingness to take what the D gives him. As such, all the other guys will have minimal value this year.

 
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Good thread. I've been thinking about the same question the OP brings up.

So far, opinion seems to be that Fred Davis isn't going to be that TE1 he was when lesser checkdown QB's Beck and Grossman were using him as his safety valve. His targets are way down, and it's only one game, but its still a concern for any Davis owner. I've also heard that system RG3 ran at Baylor U largely ignored the TE and looked downfield, which doesn't bode well for Davis at least in the short term. Still, it's hard to believe that RG3 can ignore his 2nd best option in Davis for long. Davis owners have to be patient and hope that week one was an abberation, but it could also be a trend.

Pierre Garcon had a great few start, but disappeared early after his foot injury in week one. He looks like the solid #1 wideout, but is reported unlikely to play this week after missing all practices. Despite his injury, he's a strong buy low.

After that, this roster is littered with receivers who can be found on the waiver wires. Santana Moss is a second teamer who gets limited targets on select downs. His upside is very limited and he's not nearly the player he once was. Josh Morgan was starting, but almost invisible. Leonard Hankerson never even saw the field. And when Garcon got hurt, Aldrick Robinson came in and was targeted heavily by RG3 and went on to have a decent game. Robinson's role should grow this week if Garcon is indeed out. I think Robinson is a good pre-emptive add, but only a desperation start if you need one.

Bloom has already thrown his opinion on RG3 as legit and considers him in the elite tier with the top 5 QB's. But what doesn't add up or make sense to me is that if you look at Brady, he's got his TE's, Welker and Lloyd. If you look at Rodgers, he's got Jennings, Jordy, and Finley. If you look at Brees, he's got Colston, Moore, and Sproles. On and on, all of the top 5 QB's manufacture great fantasy weapons. If we are to believe that RG3 is of the same class, he's going to make a star out of somebody other than Garcon. Redskin WR's like Moss, Hankerson, Robinson, and Morgan can be found on my waiver wire. (Well scratch Robinson, because I decided to take a flier on him.)

Point is there's a lot of low priced WR value in this offense that is worth mining through. :popcorn:

 
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'Raiderfan32904 said:
But what doesn't add up or make sense to me is that if you look at Brady, he's got his TE's, Welker and Lloyd. If you look at Rodgers, he's got Jennings, Jordy, and Finley. If you look at Brees, he's got Colston, Moore, and Sproles. On and on, all of the top 5 QB's manufacture great fantasy weapons. If we are to believe that RG3 is of the same class, he's going to make a star out of somebody other than Garcon. Redskin WR's like Moss, Hankerson, Robinson, and Morgan can be found on my waiver wire. (Well scratch Robinson, because I decided to take a flier on him.)Point is there's a lot of low priced WR value in this offense that is worth mining through. :popcorn:
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Thank you. That was my thinking as well. If Griffin is as good as advertised, then there are guys that are waiting to be discovered. I added Morgan yesterday as a pre-emptive move just in case he does something today.Can someone chime in on why Hankerson isn't higher up on the receiver chain??
 
'duaneok66 said:
'Raiderfan32904 said:
But what doesn't add up or make sense to me is that if you look at Brady, he's got his TE's, Welker and Lloyd. If you look at Rodgers, he's got Jennings, Jordy, and Finley. If you look at Brees, he's got Colston, Moore, and Sproles. On and on, all of the top 5 QB's manufacture great fantasy weapons. If we are to believe that RG3 is of the same class, he's going to make a star out of somebody other than Garcon. Redskin WR's like Moss, Hankerson, Robinson, and Morgan can be found on my waiver wire. (Well scratch Robinson, because I decided to take a flier on him.)Point is there's a lot of low priced WR value in this offense that is worth mining through. :popcorn:
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Thank you. That was my thinking as well. If Griffin is as good as advertised, then there are guys that are waiting to be discovered. I added Morgan yesterday as a pre-emptive move just in case he does something today.Can someone chime in on why Hankerson isn't higher up on the receiver chain??
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Scratch Morgan. You gotta play your hedges on Robinson/Hankerson. I think one of them will be studs in the making. They just need time to develop like S Moss did when he entered the league. Chrebet got most of the receptions in Moss' 2nd year and then in his 3rd, he took over.
 
last year hankerson was starting to look like a stud until he got injured.. i was hoping this season he would reach that potential.. i am surprised he wasnt used more in week 1 but its only been 1 week so we will see today.. its going to be hard to tell whether it will be robinson or hankerson but if you were to buy low now is the time

 
'VA703 said:
last year hankerson was starting to look like a stud until he got injured.. i was hoping this season he would reach that potential.. i am surprised he wasnt used more in week 1 but its only been 1 week so we will see today.. its going to be hard to tell whether it will be robinson or hankerson but if you were to buy low now is the time
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Hankerson went into the preseason as a starting WR while Morgan was still recovering. Hankerson did not show much in the preseason and Morgan was named the starter at the end of preseason. So Hankerson's development the past offseason is certainly disappointing.Last year he was inactive early in the season until he started practicing better and injuries provided an opportunity for him to get on the field. I expect Hankerson to see limited action until he turns things around in practice. Robinson has looked real good. But he is Garcon's backup and not Morgan's backup. If Robinson becomes the 2nd best WR, I don't know how easy he could move over to Morgan's position.
 
'Marvelous said:
'VA703 said:
last year hankerson was starting to look like a stud until he got injured.. i was hoping this season he would reach that potential.. i am surprised he wasnt used more in week 1 but its only been 1 week so we will see today.. its going to be hard to tell whether it will be robinson or hankerson but if you were to buy low now is the time
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Hankerson went into the preseason as a starting WR while Morgan was still recovering. Hankerson did not show much in the preseason and Morgan was named the starter at the end of preseason. So Hankerson's development the past offseason is certainly disappointing.Last year he was inactive early in the season until he started practicing better and injuries provided an opportunity for him to get on the field. I expect Hankerson to see limited action until he turns things around in practice. Robinson has looked real good. But he is Garcon's backup and not Morgan's backup. If Robinson becomes the 2nd best WR, I don't know how easy he could move over to Morgan's position.
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Hankerson is still recovering from his hip surgery but I expect he'll get worked in as the season progresses. There's little standing in his way and the Redskins want him to be a starter.
 
'ConnSKINS26 said:
Anyone starting Robinson this week? Starting in place of the Skins #1 WR.
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Picked him up but won't start him. I know he's Garçons backup but I've never understood why a guy was one persons backup but not the other. If the #1 receivers backup outplays the #2(in this case Robinson and Morgan) why wouldn't the backup take the other starters job? Are there that many differences at the 2 starting wideout positions (taking slot position out of the equation)?
 
'ConnSKINS26 said:
Anyone starting Robinson this week? Starting in place of the Skins #1 WR.
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I'm rolling with him as my WR3. It is less about Robinson and more about the X position for the Skins, which appears to be the focus of the passing attack.Of course, since my other options being Britt, Washington and Moore, maybe I'm just talking myself into it ;)
 
'mr roboto said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
Anyone starting Robinson this week? Starting in place of the Skins #1 WR.
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Picked him up but won't start him. I know he's Garçons backup but I've never understood why a guy was one persons backup but not the other. If the #1 receivers backup outplays the #2(in this case Robinson and Morgan) why wouldn't the backup take the other starters job? Are there that many differences at the 2 starting wideout positions (taking slot position out of the equation)?
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X, Y, and Z are different positions entirely in most offenses. Many of them run some of the same routes depending on the playcall, but not knowing the intricacies of the Skins offense, I can't really speculate. But not every receiver, no matter how skilled, is suited to play any WR position in a certain offense.
 
Morris expected to catch any balls? Didn't get to see him preseason.

 
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As a Garcon owner who looks to be out today, I'm interested in Robinson, but I passed on him for Andrew Hawkins. Honestly I think it's a coin flip between these two guys as fliers off the wire, but when Garcon plays I think Robinson goes back to having limited fantasy value, and I've never handcuffed a WR with a backup. Starting Amendola over Garcon today in 1.0 PPR to give folks an idea.

I believe there is another player on WAS with fantasy relavance and I also think that player is Fred Davis. I think Moss has the highest floor of the WR group but the ceiling is very limited. Gordon/Robinson/Hankerson all seem too boom or bust to be relied on as a fantasy starter if Garcon is on the field. So even if somebody breaks out this week, what happens when Garcon returns?

 
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So maybe Davis isn't so much of a guarantee in this offense?

I say:

[*]Hankerson starts after the moron Morgan gets benched/cut for blowing the game

[*]Garcon back in the mix when healthy is a given

[*]Moss just seems washed up. Can Robinson fill that role and be a FF contributor?

So could the starting three be Garcon/Robinson/Hankerson?

 
looks like they both got their opportunites yesterday.. but only hankerson was able to score (almost dropped) but it was a well placed long bomb from rg3...

robinson had the same attempt but couldnt come up with it

 
'cstu said:
'Marvelous said:
'VA703 said:
last year hankerson was starting to look like a stud until he got injured.. i was hoping this season he would reach that potential.. i am surprised he wasnt used more in week 1 but its only been 1 week so we will see today.. its going to be hard to tell whether it will be robinson or hankerson but if you were to buy low now is the time
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Hankerson went into the preseason as a starting WR while Morgan was still recovering. Hankerson did not show much in the preseason and Morgan was named the starter at the end of preseason. So Hankerson's development the past offseason is certainly disappointing.Last year he was inactive early in the season until he started practicing better and injuries provided an opportunity for him to get on the field. I expect Hankerson to see limited action until he turns things around in practice.

Robinson has looked real good. But he is Garcon's backup and not Morgan's backup. If Robinson becomes the 2nd best WR, I don't know how easy he could move over to Morgan's position.
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Hankerson is still recovering from his hip surgery but I expect he'll get worked in as the season progresses. There's little standing in his way and the Redskins want him to be a starter.
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This is the guy I've been holding since he was drafted.Last year he got his big shot and exploded but got injured.

Shanny talked him up and I saw him listed atop their depth chart and then he's nowhere man on opening day.

Yesterday he got one shot and took it to the house meanwhile Captian Morgan ball-chucked himself out of a job.

Aldrick Robinson just doesn't seem to have enough of 'it' to make big plays.

We know Garcion will get the bulk of the receptions and yards but someone else is due to clean up and I hope its Hank.

 
I dunno. Situation still doesn't seem clearer today. Hankerson may have produced the numbers, but he was AWOL the week prior. It's hard to trust those numbers. Kind of reminds me of the excitement around Ogletree. Just not feeling Hankerson. I agree with the earlier comment that Moss is done. Morgan should be in Shanahan's doghouse going forward, and Robinson and TE Davis are barely blips on the target radar. It's clear as mud.

Even though Robinson only caught 2 passes and was targeted only 3 times, he did have an awful drop that was right in his mitts, but he seemed to have lost it in the lights on a deep bomb. If he catches that perfect pass, his stat line would have been nice. He ran a good route, good extension, leap, hand position, everything but the catch. It looked like a fluke drop. I see nice things for Robinson going forward.

The clear takeaway from finally seeing RG3 in an entire game, not just highlights, is that he's really special. Damn good QB, and he is elite right now. I think better than Cam Newton and in the top tier both in terms of fantasy or reality football. He just doesn't have many good receiving weapons right now, but once they settle down and get some chemistry, watch out. This offense is going to produce some stud WR's later this season. But it's going to be inconsistent as to who for awhile.

 
RG3 has attempted 26 and 29 passes in his first two games. That 27.5 att/game is 26th in the NFL through 2 weeks. It is going to be difficult for his pass catching options to produce consistently if that is going to be his reality going forward. If he adds 7-8 attempts/game, there could be some real gems in that receiving corp.

To me it would seem that Fred Davis would be the likely candidate to emerge as the season progresses. Then again, it seemed as if Zach Miller should have emerged in Seattle as a quality pass catching option as well...

 
'Kitrick Taylor said:
RG3 has attempted 26 and 29 passes in his first two games. That 27.5 att/game is 26th in the NFL through 2 weeks. It is going to be difficult for his pass catching options to produce consistently if that is going to be his reality going forward. If he adds 7-8 attempts/game, there could be some real gems in that receiving corp. To me it would seem that Fred Davis would be the likely candidate to emerge as the season progresses. Then again, it seemed as if Zach Miller should have emerged in Seattle as a quality pass catching option as well...
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Good point on RG3's pass attempts. Certainly limits the upside of the entire receiving group. As a Fred Davis owner, I tried my best to sell him low last week, but I'm afraid his price is bottoming out now. You look at RG3 and his eyes are always looking downfield, or he decides tuck and run. There isn't any checkdown passes in his game. The reason Davis was so good before was because of garbage QB's who couldn't make deep accurate throws like RG3. Now Davis is left with the tablescraps. It doesn't look good for Davis unless RG3 gets hurt, (no I'm not wishing injury on anybody).
 
Didn't watch either game, but followed both on gamecast and twitter. Seemed like Santana's targets are primarily closer to the LOS whereas Robinson and Hank have been the downfield guys. Given the unreliability of those 2 it has me even higher on Garcon when he does come back - probably this week. RG3's deep ball is one of the reasons I was as high on him as I was, it's beautiful.

 
'VA703 said:
looks like they both got their opportunites yesterday.. but only hankerson was able to score (almost dropped) but it was a well placed long bomb from rg3...
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Hankerson got waaaay open on that play, Griffin dropped the ball to him nicely, and I was still worried he was going to drop it for awhile. He acted like some big angry trout had dropped out of the sky into his hands.
 
'Raiderfan32904 said:
'Kitrick Taylor said:
RG3 has attempted 26 and 29 passes in his first two games. That 27.5 att/game is 26th in the NFL through 2 weeks. It is going to be difficult for his pass catching options to produce consistently if that is going to be his reality going forward. If he adds 7-8 attempts/game, there could be some real gems in that receiving corp. To me it would seem that Fred Davis would be the likely candidate to emerge as the season progresses. Then again, it seemed as if Zach Miller should have emerged in Seattle as a quality pass catching option as well...
Click to expand...
Good point on RG3's pass attempts. Certainly limits the upside of the entire receiving group. As a Fred Davis owner, I tried my best to sell him low last week, but I'm afraid his price is bottoming out now. You look at RG3 and his eyes are always looking downfield, or he decides tuck and run. There isn't any checkdown passes in his game. The reason Davis was so good before was because of garbage QB's who couldn't make deep accurate throws like RG3. Now Davis is left with the tablescraps. It doesn't look good for Davis unless RG3 gets hurt, (no I'm not wishing injury on anybody).
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consider this on passing attempts......the last 2 years, Washington has been 4th and 5th in passing attempts. If RG3 is putting him these numbers with limited passing, what is the upside if the offense tends more towards recent history once they feel he is comfortable? should be pretty damn high, no?additionally, the Skins just had 2 MAJOR blows to their defense this week losing both Carriker and Orapko for the year. This will likely mean more games where the offense is forced to keep the pedal to the metal.in summary, I believe there will be plenty to go around. Start RG3 with confidence and Garcon once back. Other than that, we'll have to continue to dissect to see if there is a consistent 2nd guy. It could change week to week though.
 
the pass attempts will go up. The Skins will not be jumping out to double digit leads like they have the last 2 weeks. There might be some shootouts in the NFC East games for sure. Plus Haslett is a dog of a DCoordinator. He's terrible and losing 2 starters won't help.

 
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"Zac Boyer of the Fredericksburg Free Lance-Star considers Leonard Hankerson "very likely" to replace Pierre Garcon (foot, doubtful) as the Redskins' starting Z receiver Sunday against the Bengals."

 
'duaneok66 said:
It will be interesting to see if Morgan is still the starter. I don't have Hankerson, but I wish I did.
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I don't know if he got demoted, but Shanahan said he wasn't going to punish Morgan.
"There's no need for him to apologize," Shanahan said of Morgan. "There's a lot of guys who are emotionally explosive. When you get hit, your first action as a football player is to retaliate. One thing you have to learn is, more often than not, the second guy will get caught. That's part of a young guy growing up."Shanahan said he had addressed the team about keeping their cool before the game. The NFL's replacement officials have demonstrated a loose grasp on maintaining peace after the play, and Finnegan is known for getting under opponents'skin."I talked to our team and Josh was in the room," Shanahan said when asked if he spoke alone with Morgan after the game. "I didn't talk to him specifically."Shanahan said Morgan won't be punished for his mistake."You've got to play your best players," he said. "What you're trying to do is make sure it doesn't re-occur for your whole football team. That's the difference between winning and losing: keeping your composure. A lot of these veterans set these guys up. All of a sudden a guy loses his composure, and the vets walk away."
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Targets were pretty evenly split week 2. Robinson dropped and easy pass and Morgan got a dumb penalty. Shanny is like Coughlin in that if you screw up he will pull you. Tuff love. Hankerson looked good last year before the injury and looked pretty good with limited opportunity last week. I am guessing he has earned more time, if for no other reason than because of the screw ups by Robinson and Morgan. I picked Hankerson up about an hour ago. Good chance I start him

 
Garcon is the only 'must start' when he plays. Hankerson has some talent that might become relevant. Morgan, Moss, Robinson, et al are just filler.

 
'Raiderfan32904 said:
Good thread. I've been thinking about the same question the OP brings up.

So far, opinion seems to be that Fred Davis isn't going to be that TE1 he was when lesser checkdown QB's Beck and Grossman were using him as his safety valve. His targets are way down, and it's only one game, but its still a concern for any Davis owner. I've also heard that system RG3 ran at Baylor U largely ignored the TE and looked downfield, which doesn't bode well for Davis at least in the short term. Still, it's hard to believe that RG3 can ignore his 2nd best option in Davis for long. Davis owners have to be patient and hope that week one was an abberation, but it could also be a trend.

Pierre Garcon had a great few start, but disappeared early after his foot injury in week one. He looks like the solid #1 wideout, but is reported unlikely to play this week after missing all practices. Despite his injury, he's a strong buy low.

After that, this roster is littered with receivers who can be found on the waiver wires. Santana Moss is a second teamer who gets limited targets on select downs. His upside is very limited and he's not nearly the player he once was. Josh Morgan was starting, but almost invisible. Leonard Hankerson never even saw the field. And when Garcon got hurt, Aldrick Robinson came in and was targeted heavily by RG3 and went on to have a decent game. Robinson's role should grow this week if Garcon is indeed out. I think Robinson is a good pre-emptive add, but only a desperation start if you need one.

Bloom has already thrown his opinion on RG3 as legit and considers him in the elite tier with the top 5 QB's. But what doesn't add up or make sense to me is that if you look at Brady, he's got his TE's, Welker and Lloyd. If you look at Rodgers, he's got Jennings, Jordy, and Finley. If you look at Brees, he's got Colston, Moore, and Sproles. On and on, all of the top 5 QB's manufacture great fantasy weapons. If we are to believe that RG3 is of the same class, he's going to make a star out of somebody other than Garcon. Redskin WR's like Moss, Hankerson, Robinson, and Morgan can be found on my waiver wire. (Well scratch Robinson, because I decided to take a flier on him.)

Point is there's a lot of low priced WR value in this offense that is worth mining through. :popcorn:
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I do not totally agree with Bloom's ranking, but he is smarter than me so maybe he is right. I wouldn't look to compare RG3 through the same prism as the QBs you mentioned, but rather along the same lines as fellow read option QB Cam Newton. RG3's fantasy value comes from rushing + passing just as Cam's does and that probably means that RG3 doesn't actually have to make multiple receiving threats stars to produce big fantasy numbers. It doesn't mean that he can't make someone besides Garcon a fantasy star, it just means that the fantasy options on his team could mirror that of Carolina which is 1 big star (Steve Smith), serviceable TE, and a hit or miss unpredictable weekly 2nd WR steps up. The 2nd WR is a potential fantasy landmine just as much as he is a goldmine. The unpredictability kills though. If you like Hankerson then Robinson will likely be the thorn in your side and vice versa from week to week. So you really need to believe in a guys talent if you are going to bet on him in that regard. There are quite a few options and you need to consider many things... size, speed, hands. See how they stack up in that sense, then back up your thoughts with snap counts and targets, especially redzone targets. (Some guys don't play in certain packages in the red zone.) Then consider if the Redskins actually do what you think they should do based on your talent evaluation. If your talent evaluation, the opportunity data, and the Redskins philosophy converge you can jump on a breakout player if there is one.

I am not going to break down all the WRs, but one thing I will say is that if a guy is really short he better be special as a WR. I know that Aldrick Robinson looks really nice to some people, but it's really hard to be consistent in the NFL unless you have some sort of edge to your game especially when your size naturally puts you at a disadvantage. I don't know enough about Aldrick Robinson to count him out, I'm just saying. I would be generally skeptical of strictly slot WRs unless they are in extreme passing offenses.

 
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