Rice cut by Ravens (1 Viewer)

[SKI]

Does Rice ask to be reinstated after 6 games? And, if so, does the league reinstate him? (This assumes this is his first offence)

No way this happens. The NFL has been trying very hard to soften it's image the last few years with breast cancer awareness, etc. No way they let this guy back in. Honesly, I think his NFL career is over.

pretty sure a divorce is coming too.

She married him AFTER the incident on the video. Not so sure we can count on a pending divorce.

Well, my guess is she married him anyways because of the money. As his fiance she gets no piece of the pie, but as his wife she gets at least half. She'll probably get out while the gettin's good.

They have been together since high school. I doubt that money was her only motivation.

The word from inside the organization is that Ray lied to them about what happened.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Does Rice ask to be reinstated after 6 games? And, if so, does the league reinstate him? (This assumes this is his first offence)

No way this happens. The NFL has been trying very hard to soften it's image the last few years with breast cancer awareness, etc. No way they let this guy back in. Honesly, I think his NFL career is over.

pretty sure a divorce is coming too.

She married him AFTER the incident on the video. Not so sure we can count on a pending divorce.

Well, my guess is she married him anyways because of the money. As his fiance she gets no piece of the pie, but as his wife she gets at least half. She'll probably get out while the gettin's good.

They have been together since high school. I doubt that money was her only motivation.

The word from inside the organization is that Ray lied to them about what happened.

It just boggles my mind that a woman would marry, a few months later, the same dude that knocked her out cold. The only motivation HAS to be the money, right?

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

1. The Ravens IMO could do whatever they wanted. It's not their job to implement additional punishment outside of what the league mandates, and had they chosen to keep Rice and let him come back, I wouldn't have blamed them. Rice's story made big time headlines, but teams consistently bring back impact players that get into trouble with the law, and serve their league mandated suspensions. We've seen players come back from everything, vehicular homicide (Stallworth, Little Brent), domestic violence, drug and weapons offense... On the flipside, I wouldn't have had (and don't) any problem with them cutting Rice over his behavior (now, or 3 months ago). That is their choice as an organization. Some teams operate in that manner (I.e., Pittsburgh); most don't. See all players with criminal records; there's a lot of them.

2. I don't have the numbers, but I'd be pretty willing to bet that since Goodell has been the commissioner, there have been other incidents where players have been found legally culpable of domestic violence, whether by trial or pleading out. I'd also bet that court documents would be able to provide highly detailed information regarding the circumstances surrounding the majority of those cases. For example, Greg Hardy has already been convicted of domestic violence, and is currently in the appeals process. Google his case and you can find all the dirty details of the incident, and trust me, Rice has nothing on him (Hardy had a nice game yesterday with 4 tackles, a sack and a forced fumble. But prior to the backlash on Rice, and the announcement of the new DV policy (6 week suspension, 2nd offense = lifetime ban), what was the common punishment for DV convictions? Were most players getting 2 games; 6 games; a season? I honestly don't know, but I cannot remember hearing of a player being suspended for a first time DV offense for any serious amount of time. Even Daryl Washington's one year ban this season was for the DV charge combined with a second documented failed drug test. If Goodell had instituted his new, tough on DV policy, and then suspended Rice 6 games, I highly doubt we're having this conversation today. If he had just given Rice half a year or a year out of the blue, and that was 4x to 8x what any player had previously gotten for the same offense, he (and probably most of this board) would be crying foul. My guess is the NFL underestimated the backlash, but due to Rice's popularity, the high profile nature of the issue, the fact it's on tape, and what was going on with Gordon at the same time, it blew up on them. Goodell's two game suspension was most likely standard operating procedure when he made that decision.

3. I really don't understand the current indefinite suspension by the NFL today. Like I said, I'm all for the Ravens cutting him, but what does the NFL have to prove. They already modified their suspension policy regarding domestic violence. Does Ray McDonald and Greg Hardy get 6 game suspensions if found guilty, or are they suspended indefinitely? I'm sure they'll have some excuse like Rice's statements counter this new video that we had never seen before (yeah, right). It seems to me this just adds additional confusion on what the policy actually is. If they felt they needed to go retroactive on Rice (which I think is a slippery slope anyways), why not give him 6 games.

I think what was Rice did was awful; I don't know if I'd go so far as others and call him a despicable human being. I also think he should have to pay the price. Seems to me like he originally did receive a penalty in line with penalties given out for previous DV infractions. The villagers got angry, and the story grew beyond the realm of just to the NFL to a hot button news topic in general. To save face, the NFL reviewed and modified their punishment policies on domestic violence incidents, and things settled down. Then today's tape was made public and the villagers got angry again. So now, on a whim, they go back and make the new policy retroactive for Rice only, but implement a harsher punishment, inconsistent with their own policy. I think that's a huge mistake and one that could come back to bite them long term. What's a negotiated CBA if the commissioner can implement new policies whenever he wants, then still has the discretion to go against that policy based on a case-by-case basis, as well as having the right to determine retroactivity. I wonder who the last player currently playing in the league right now is, who was convicted on some form of DV charge. I guess if he wasn't suspended or only suspended a few games, Goodell is going to go back and give him 6 games... or maybe an indefinite suspension. What about the second to last guy. Is it retroactive to him two, or just Rice and the last player...

 

[massraider]

It just boggles my mind that a woman would marry, a few months later, the same dude that knocked her out cold. The only motivation HAS to be the money, right?

It must be, because ordinarily, women always make the right choices when it comes to relationships.

 

[Henry Ford]

Does Rice ask to be reinstated after 6 games? And, if so, does the league reinstate him? (This assumes this is his first offence)

No way this happens. The NFL has been trying very hard to soften it's image the last few years with breast cancer awareness, etc. No way they let this guy back in. Honesly, I think his NFL career is over.

pretty sure a divorce is coming too.

She married him AFTER the incident on the video. Not so sure we can count on a pending divorce.

Well, my guess is she married him anyways because of the money. As his fiance she gets no piece of the pie, but as his wife she gets at least half. She'll probably get out while the gettin's good.

They have been together since high school. I doubt that money was her only motivation.

The word from inside the organization is that Ray lied to them about what happened.

It just boggles my mind that a woman would marry, a few months later, the same dude that knocked her out cold. The only motivation HAS to be the money, right?

Ray Rice is 27. That means they've been together a minimum of 9 years, right? She probably doesn't want him to go to prison. Marrying him may have made it legally impossible for the prosecutor to force her to testify.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

Does Rice ask to be reinstated after 6 games? And, if so, does the league reinstate him? (This assumes this is his first offence)

No way this happens. The NFL has been trying very hard to soften it's image the last few years with breast cancer awareness, etc. No way they let this guy back in. Honesly, I think his NFL career is over.

pretty sure a divorce is coming too.

She married him AFTER the incident on the video. Not so sure we can count on a pending divorce.

Well, my guess is she married him anyways because of the money. As his fiance she gets no piece of the pie, but as his wife she gets at least half. She'll probably get out while the gettin's good.

They have been together since high school. I doubt that money was her only motivation.

The word from inside the organization is that Ray lied to them about what happened.

I remember him confessing that they were fighting and that he hit her, knocking her out. In that video, I saw them fighting, and then he hit her knocking her out. It's not like he straddled her and pummeled her face in anything the public hadn't heard. Sure, they both down-played the incident, but has any player ever come out, fully owned up and described in raw detail the heinousness of their actions? We all want people to take responsibility for their actions. As awful as they were, Rice genuinely seemed to take responsibility and be remorseful. He admitted punching her and knocking her out; that's what I saw on that video today.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I wonder if Dez Bryant will get suspended for hitting his mom.

 

[Henry Ford]

What's the CFL's view on domestic violence?

 

[Vector]

1. The Ravens IMO could do whatever they wanted. It's not their job to implement additional punishment outside of what the league mandates, and had they chosen to keep Rice and let him come back, I wouldn't have blamed them. Rice's story made big time headlines, but teams consistently bring back impact players that get into trouble with the law, and serve their league mandated suspensions. We've seen players come back from everything, vehicular homicide (Stallworth, Little Brent), domestic violence, drug and weapons offense... On the flipside, I wouldn't have had (and don't) any problem with them cutting Rice over his behavior (now, or 3 months ago). That is their choice as an organization. Some teams operate in that manner (I.e., Pittsburgh); most don't. See all players with criminal records; there's a lot of them.

2. I don't have the numbers, but I'd be pretty willing to bet that since Goodell has been the commissioner, there have been other incidents where players have been found legally culpable of domestic violence, whether by trial or pleading out. I'd also bet that court documents would be able to provide highly detailed information regarding the circumstances surrounding the majority of those cases. For example, Greg Hardy has already been convicted of domestic violence, and is currently in the appeals process. Google his case and you can find all the dirty details of the incident, and trust me, Rice has nothing on him (Hardy had a nice game yesterday with 4 tackles, a sack and a forced fumble. But prior to the backlash on Rice, and the announcement of the new DV policy (6 week suspension, 2nd offense = lifetime ban), what was the common punishment for DV convictions? Were most players getting 2 games; 6 games; a season? I honestly don't know, but I cannot remember hearing of a player being suspended for a first time DV offense for any serious amount of time. Even Daryl Washington's one year ban this season was for the DV charge combined with a second documented failed drug test. If Goodell had instituted his new, tough on DV policy, and then suspended Rice 6 games, I highly doubt we're having this conversation today. If he had just given Rice half a year or a year out of the blue, and that was 4x to 8x what any player had previously gotten for the same offense, he (and probably most of this board) would be crying foul. My guess is the NFL underestimated the backlash, but due to Rice's popularity, the high profile nature of the issue, the fact it's on tape, and what was going on with Gordon at the same time, it blew up on them. Goodell's two game suspension was most likely standard operating procedure when he made that decision.

3. I really don't understand the current indefinite suspension by the NFL today. Like I said, I'm all for the Ravens cutting him, but what does the NFL have to prove. They already modified their suspension policy regarding domestic violence. Does Ray McDonald and Greg Hardy get 6 game suspensions if found guilty, or are they suspended indefinitely? I'm sure they'll have some excuse like Rice's statements counter this new video that we had never seen before (yeah, right). It seems to me this just adds additional confusion on what the policy actually is. If they felt they needed to go retroactive on Rice (which I think is a slippery slope anyways), why not give him 6 games.

I think what was Rice did was awful; I don't know if I'd go so far as others and call him a despicable human being. I also think he should have to pay the price. Seems to me like he originally did receive a penalty in line with penalties given out for previous DV infractions. The villagers got angry, and the story grew beyond the realm of just to the NFL to a hot button news topic in general. To save face, the NFL reviewed and modified their punishment policies on domestic violence incidents, and things settled down. Then today's tape was made public and the villagers got angry again. So now, on a whim, they go back and make the new policy retroactive for Rice only, but implement a harsher punishment, inconsistent with their own policy. I think that's a huge mistake and one that could come back to bite them long term. What's a negotiated CBA if the commissioner can implement new policies whenever he wants, then still has the discretion to go against that policy based on a case-by-case basis, as well as having the right to determine retroactivity. I wonder who the last player currently playing in the league right now is, who was convicted on some form of DV charge. I guess if he wasn't suspended or only suspended a few games, Goodell is going to go back and give him 6 games... or maybe an indefinite suspension. What about the second to last guy. Is it retroactive to him two, or just Rice and the last player...

Best post on this subject.

 

[SKI]

Does Rice ask to be reinstated after 6 games? And, if so, does the league reinstate him? (This assumes this is his first offence)

No way this happens. The NFL has been trying very hard to soften it's image the last few years with breast cancer awareness, etc. No way they let this guy back in. Honesly, I think his NFL career is over.

pretty sure a divorce is coming too.

She married him AFTER the incident on the video. Not so sure we can count on a pending divorce.

Well, my guess is she married him anyways because of the money. As his fiance she gets no piece of the pie, but as his wife she gets at least half. She'll probably get out while the gettin's good.

They have been together since high school. I doubt that money was her only motivation.

The word from inside the organization is that Ray lied to them about what happened.

I remember him confessing that they were fighting and that he hit her, knocking her out. In that video, I saw them fighting, and then he hit her knocking her out. It's not like he straddled her and pummeled her face in anything the public hadn't heard. Sure, they both down-played the incident, but has any player ever come out, fully owned up and described in raw detail the heinousness of their actions? We all want people to take responsibility for their actions. As awful as they were, Rice genuinely seemed to take responsibility and be remorseful. He admitted punching her and knocking her out; that's what I saw on that video today.

My understanding is that he (and she) told the Ravens in their private meetings that he was defending himself from her and that when he hit her in response, she hit her head on the railing which was the reason she was knocked out. That is a very different scenario than the tape showed.

 

[WisWolvrns]

NFL is a kangaroo court. If they made the changes to 6 weeks and indefinite, the presence of a video or not shouldn't matter. Rice should have been hit with 6 weeks. Done. Anything more and the NFL is being driven not by policy but popular opinion/media biases..

If seeing a video makes things so much more real for the media and everyone that is putting up an uproar, why isn't there a million times bigger uproar over the slaughter of christians and videos of beheadings by ISIS??

 

[SKI]

Does Rice ask to be reinstated after 6 games? And, if so, does the league reinstate him? (This assumes this is his first offence)

No way this happens. The NFL has been trying very hard to soften it's image the last few years with breast cancer awareness, etc. No way they let this guy back in. Honesly, I think his NFL career is over.

pretty sure a divorce is coming too.

She married him AFTER the incident on the video. Not so sure we can count on a pending divorce.

Well, my guess is she married him anyways because of the money. As his fiance she gets no piece of the pie, but as his wife she gets at least half. She'll probably get out while the gettin's good.

They have been together since high school. I doubt that money was her only motivation.

The word from inside the organization is that Ray lied to them about what happened.

It just boggles my mind that a woman would marry, a few months later, the same dude that knocked her out cold. The only motivation HAS to be the money, right?

Ray Rice is 27. That means they've been together a minimum of 9 years, right? She probably doesn't want him to go to prison. Marrying him may have made it legally impossible for the prosecutor to force her to testify.

Actually, no. New Jersey doesn't recognize spousal immunity in criminal cases. They could still have compelled her testimony at trial.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

Absurd

Really?

Yes. He rightfully deserves punishment. Making him a pariah and taking away his job, along with literally millions of dollars, is not in line with the offense.

It's a public relations league. He's one of the faces of a franchise. If I were in the news in a video knocking out my wife, I'd be fired by my job in about ten seconds, and I'm not the face of the law firm.

True, but you'd find a similar job with similar income and benefits before too long. If it took you two years to get back to your prestige/income, that would represent only a small fraction of your lifetime earning potential.An NFL RB has no other "similar job" to turn to, and has only a few short years to his career to begin with. Two years represents up to 30% of his LIFETIME EARNINGS ....and that's assuming he can come back in two years to a paycheck similar to what he would have had if this hadn't happened.

Domestic assault is an ugly thing that needs to be taken seriously, but taking away 30-50% of a man's lifetime earnings is harsh for an offense that in the end is a simple assault. Far too harsh IMHO.

Wait wait wait aren't you the guy calling for suspension for Antonio brown kicking the punter in the face after he tried to hurdle him and then planted his foot in the face mask?

That "assault" happened on the field and would cost Antonio a % of his earning potential if suspended but now you're balking at rice getting suspended for a left hook to his fiances jaw??

Perception is reality... He got what he deserved eventually

 

[justinl]

1. The Ravens IMO could do whatever they wanted. It's not their job to implement additional punishment outside of what the league mandates, and had they chosen to keep Rice and let him come back, I wouldn't have blamed them. Rice's story made big time headlines, but teams consistently bring back impact players that get into trouble with the law, and serve their league mandated suspensions. We've seen players come back from everything, vehicular homicide (Stallworth, Little Brent), domestic violence, drug and weapons offense... On the flipside, I wouldn't have had (and don't) any problem with them cutting Rice over his behavior (now, or 3 months ago). That is their choice as an organization. Some teams operate in that manner (I.e., Pittsburgh); most don't. See all players with criminal records; there's a lot of them.

2. I don't have the numbers, but I'd be pretty willing to bet that since Goodell has been the commissioner, there have been other incidents where players have been found legally culpable of domestic violence, whether by trial or pleading out. I'd also bet that court documents would be able to provide highly detailed information regarding the circumstances surrounding the majority of those cases. For example, Greg Hardy has already been convicted of domestic violence, and is currently in the appeals process. Google his case and you can find all the dirty details of the incident, and trust me, Rice has nothing on him (Hardy had a nice game yesterday with 4 tackles, a sack and a forced fumble. But prior to the backlash on Rice, and the announcement of the new DV policy (6 week suspension, 2nd offense = lifetime ban), what was the common punishment for DV convictions? Were most players getting 2 games; 6 games; a season? I honestly don't know, but I cannot remember hearing of a player being suspended for a first time DV offense for any serious amount of time. Even Daryl Washington's one year ban this season was for the DV charge combined with a second documented failed drug test. If Goodell had instituted his new, tough on DV policy, and then suspended Rice 6 games, I highly doubt we're having this conversation today. If he had just given Rice half a year or a year out of the blue, and that was 4x to 8x what any player had previously gotten for the same offense, he (and probably most of this board) would be crying foul. My guess is the NFL underestimated the backlash, but due to Rice's popularity, the high profile nature of the issue, the fact it's on tape, and what was going on with Gordon at the same time, it blew up on them. Goodell's two game suspension was most likely standard operating procedure when he made that decision.

3. I really don't understand the current indefinite suspension by the NFL today. Like I said, I'm all for the Ravens cutting him, but what does the NFL have to prove. They already modified their suspension policy regarding domestic violence. Does Ray McDonald and Greg Hardy get 6 game suspensions if found guilty, or are they suspended indefinitely? I'm sure they'll have some excuse like Rice's statements counter this new video that we had never seen before (yeah, right). It seems to me this just adds additional confusion on what the policy actually is. If they felt they needed to go retroactive on Rice (which I think is a slippery slope anyways), why not give him 6 games.

I think what was Rice did was awful; I don't know if I'd go so far as others and call him a despicable human being. I also think he should have to pay the price. Seems to me like he originally did receive a penalty in line with penalties given out for previous DV infractions. The villagers got angry, and the story grew beyond the realm of just to the NFL to a hot button news topic in general. To save face, the NFL reviewed and modified their punishment policies on domestic violence incidents, and things settled down. Then today's tape was made public and the villagers got angry again. So now, on a whim, they go back and make the new policy retroactive for Rice only, but implement a harsher punishment, inconsistent with their own policy. I think that's a huge mistake and one that could come back to bite them long term. What's a negotiated CBA if the commissioner can implement new policies whenever he wants, then still has the discretion to go against that policy based on a case-by-case basis, as well as having the right to determine retroactivity. I wonder who the last player currently playing in the league right now is, who was convicted on some form of DV charge. I guess if he wasn't suspended or only suspended a few games, Goodell is going to go back and give him 6 games... or maybe an indefinite suspension. What about the second to last guy. Is it retroactive to him two, or just Rice and the last player...

Very well said. Completely agree on all parts. Brandon Marshall is one that comes to mind in terms of DV and trouble w/ the law. But since he's gotten to Chicago, he's completely cleaned up his act and is a face for BPD Awareness. I don't remember Marshall getting chided as hard as Rice, and he received a 1 game suspension when it was all said and done. I think the video evidence made all the difference.

 

[renesauz]

So we should punish people less if they make huge amounts of money for a short period of time?

Define less.

If one of us has to work at McDonalds for 2 years before going back to our normal job, what kind of impact does that have?

If one of us has to work at McDonalds for 10 years?

Which one is more equivalent to what is being done to Rice?

4 games, 6 games, even 8 games made sense. A year would have been harsh. Indefinate, possibly permanent is simply too harsh.

 

[kupcho1]

Has the NFL ever abandoned a policy quicker than this one?

I thought it was 6 games 1st offense; lifetime ban for the 2nd?

Did I miss the indefinite suspension provision???

Goodell is a moron and should be fired. Rice should have been out a year to begin with, but Goodell just keeps compounding the problem. He'd be overmatched running a car wash (no offense to anyone out there running a car wash).

I don't believe this applies. The NFL didn't change the suspension. The Ravens just decided to terminate his contract.

What?

The NFL suspended Rice for two games several weeks ago.

After significant uproar, the NFL instituted a policy of 6 game suspension 1st offense; lifetime ban after the 2nd offense

Today, after release of the video showing Rice's KO punch, the NFL suspended Rice "indefinitely."

Goodell should do the honorable thing and just resign. He's clearly out of his depth.

 

[Hipple II]

Suspended by NFL indefinitely.

now this is also absurd. Why can't the NFL just tack on 4 games to make his suspension in line with the new policy (even though that's bs too, ex post facto etc) Patently unfair to Ravens as well.

 

[fatness]

I remember him confessing that they were fighting and that he hit her, knocking her out. In that video, I saw them fighting, and then he hit her knocking her out. It's not like he straddled her and pummeled her face in anything the public hadn't heard. Sure, they both down-played the incident, but has any player ever come out, fully owned up and described in raw detail the heinousness of their actions? We all want people to take responsibility for their actions. As awful as they were, Rice genuinely seemed to take responsibility and be remorseful. He admitted punching her and knocking her out; that's what I saw on that video today.

His teammates say he told the team he was fending off her attacks in the elevator. That's obviously not true, and obviously not taking responsibility for what he did.

 

[renesauz]

Absurd

Really?

Yes. He rightfully deserves punishment. Making him a pariah and taking away his job, along with literally millions of dollars, is not in line with the offense.

It's a public relations league. He's one of the faces of a franchise. If I were in the news in a video knocking out my wife, I'd be fired by my job in about ten seconds, and I'm not the face of the law firm.

True, but you'd find a similar job with similar income and benefits before too long. If it took you two years to get back to your prestige/income, that would represent only a small fraction of your lifetime earning potential.

An NFL RB has no other "similar job" to turn to, and has only a few short years to his career to begin with. Two years represents up to 30% of his LIFETIME EARNINGS ....and that's assuming he can come back in two years to a paycheck similar to what he would have had if this hadn't happened.

Domestic assault is an ugly thing that needs to be taken seriously, but taking away 30-50% of a man's lifetime earnings is harsh for an offense that in the end is a simple assault. Far too harsh IMHO.

He has lost some huge percent of his lifetime professional running back earning potential, but like any other pariah, he's more than welcome to peddle his wares for a working man's wage. Plenty of warehouses and construction sites out there that would happily take a strong, healthy 30 year old without giving a second thought to the PR hit. He hasn't lost anything remotely like 30-50% of his lifetime earning timeline. He's just put himself in a position where those earnings probably can't come in a PR intensive industry.

Really? 30% in this case is upwards of 4 million dollars minimum. At 100K per year (which is far more than he would earn at the jobs you suggest), it would take 40 years just to make up for the lost money.

30% takes into account the money he's already made in the NFL...his true lifetime earnings. If you count just earnings going forward, if he is never allowed back into the NFL the figure is closer to 75%.

 

[GoBirds]

Suspended by NFL indefinitely.

now this is also absurd. Why can't the NFL just tack on 4 games to make his suspension in line with the new policy (even though that's bs too, ex post facto etc) Patently unfair to Ravens as well.

Kind of a Donald Sterling like example being made I guess......except Rice won't see quite the payday.

 

[socrates]

First, let me say that I am all for the Ravens cutting Rice. I believe that was the right move, both as a PR move, and simply as a "we are not willing to tolerate this type of deplorable behavior" move. The Ravens did what the League should have done. Kudos to them.

However, I am very curious about the circumstances behind the League's indefinite suspension. This wreaks of double jeopardy. It appears to me that the League did not do their due diligence in investigating this matter thoroughly the first time through, and then Goodell regretted his leniency after the public backlash.

So, is this a make-up call?

If the indefinite suspension is for lying or misleading the investigators, I might understand this, but if the League increases Rice's term of suspension for the same offense he has already been "sentenced" for, I cannot support that.

 

[Henry Ford]

Actually, no. New Jersey doesn't recognize spousal immunity in criminal cases. They could still have compelled her testimony at trial.

Assuming you mean spousal privilege, yes it does as a general rule. However, I'm not sure of the extent of it. I know that the spouse is allowed to testify against her husband in a crime against her or the children, I just don't know if she can be compelled to.

ETA: I don't think she can.

 

[ImTheScientist]

We all know it was wrong. Regarding fantasy football....

Who of the trio in Baltimore are you adding?

 

[socrates]

Actually, no. New Jersey doesn't recognize spousal immunity in criminal cases. They could still have compelled her testimony at trial.

Assuming you mean spousal privilege, yes it does as a general rule. However, I'm not sure of the extent of it. I know that the spouse is allowed to testify against her husband in a crime against her or the children, I just don't know if she can be compelled to.

ETA: I don't think she can.

Can you invoke spousal testimonial privilege in cases of domestic abuse? I do not practice in that area, and not in New Jersey, but I thought as a general rule, the privilege did not apply in domestic abuse cases.

 

[Henry Ford]

Actually, no. New Jersey doesn't recognize spousal immunity in criminal cases. They could still have compelled her testimony at trial.

Assuming you mean spousal privilege, yes it does as a general rule. However, I'm not sure of the extent of it. I know that the spouse is allowed to testify against her husband in a crime against her or the children, I just don't know if she can be compelled to.

ETA: I don't think she can.

Can you invoke spousal testimonial privilege in cases of domestic abuse? I do not practice in that area, and not in New Jersey, but I thought as a general rule, the privilege did not apply in domestic abuse cases.

Depends on the state - the big difference is usually that the privilege when you can invoke it belongs to the aggrieved spouse, instead of the spouse on trial. Like I said, I don't know if that rule applies in New Jersey or not.

ETA: Basically, it's a rule that the spouse cannot be forced to testify instead of the spouse can be forced not to testify.

 

[SKI]

Actually, no. New Jersey doesn't recognize spousal immunity in criminal cases. They could still have compelled her testimony at trial.

Assuming you mean spousal privilege, yes it does as a general rule. However, I'm not sure of the extent of it. I know that the spouse is allowed to testify against her husband in a crime against her or the children, I just don't know if she can be compelled to.

ETA: I don't think she can.

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/evidenceprof/2014/03/according-to-espn-baltimore-ravens-running-back-ray-rice-and-janay-palmer-were-married-friday-what-makes-this-both-sad-a.html

 

[Brunell4MVP]

To the people calling for his head now...what the hell did you think he had done before you saw this video??? We already knew the woman was knocked out cold. He was dragging her dead weight body off the elevator. I figured he had hit her multiple times. One punch was far less than I was expecting to see.

I don't know the law on it, but I doubt domestic abuse usually gets a person anymore than a night in jail if the person abused isn't willing to press charges. Even if they do press charges I imagine it's no more than a month for a first offense. And the timing of the video coming out makes me think TMZ and the police had this planned all along. Week 1 NFL.

The guy f*ed up. Big time. He's an idiot. He's abuser. He needs anger treatment. And given that the union allowed the NFL to be jury and judge on these matters he probably shouldn't play another down in the NFL until he complete a long treatment program. But common, did any of you really think this wasn't what happened? If so, you need to get your head out of your a$$.

 

[socrates]

Actually, no. New Jersey doesn't recognize spousal immunity in criminal cases. They could still have compelled her testimony at trial.

Assuming you mean spousal privilege, yes it does as a general rule. However, I'm not sure of the extent of it. I know that the spouse is allowed to testify against her husband in a crime against her or the children, I just don't know if she can be compelled to.

ETA: I don't think she can.

Can you invoke spousal testimonial privilege in cases of domestic abuse? I do not practice in that area, and not in New Jersey, but I thought as a general rule, the privilege did not apply in domestic abuse cases.

Depends on the state - the big difference is usually that the privilege when you can invoke it belongs to the aggrieved spouse, instead of the spouse on trial. Like I said, I don't know if that rule applies in New Jersey or not.

ETA: Basically, it's a rule that the spouse cannot be forced to testify instead of the spouse can be forced not to testify.

Thanks. I think it is fair to say that even if the law allows the prosecution to compel Rice's wife to testify, if she is not a cooperative witness, she is unlikely to be of much help.

 

[massraider]

To the people calling for his head now...what the hell did you think he had done before you saw this video??? We already knew the woman was knocked out cold. He was dragging her dead weight body off the elevator. I figured he had hit her multiple times. One punch was far less than I was expecting to see.

I don't know the law on it, but I doubt domestic abuse usually gets a person anymore than a night in jail if the person abused isn't willing to press charges. Even if they do press charges I imagine it's no more than a month for a first offense. And the timing of the video coming out makes me think TMZ and the police had this planned all along. Week 1 NFL.

The guy f*ed up. Big time. He's an idiot. He's abuser. He needs anger treatment. And given that the union allowed the NFL to be jury and judge on these matters he probably shouldn't play another down in the NFL until he complete a long treatment program. But common, did any of you really think this wasn't what happened? If so, you need to get your head out of your ###.

Hearing about something isn't the same as seeing it. Is this news to you?

 

[Proust Loves Cake]

Absurd

Really?

Yes. He rightfully deserves punishment. Making him a pariah and taking away his job, along with literally millions of dollars, is not in line with the offense.

It's a public relations league. He's one of the faces of a franchise. If I were in the news in a video knocking out my wife, I'd be fired by my job in about ten seconds, and I'm not the face of the law firm.

True, but you'd find a similar job with similar income and benefits before too long. If it took you two years to get back to your prestige/income, that would represent only a small fraction of your lifetime earning potential.An NFL RB has no other "similar job" to turn to, and has only a few short years to his career to begin with. Two years represents up to 30% of his LIFETIME EARNINGS ....and that's assuming he can come back in two years to a paycheck similar to what he would have had if this hadn't happened.

Domestic assault is an ugly thing that needs to be taken seriously, but taking away 30-50% of a man's lifetime earnings is harsh for an offense that in the end is a simple assault. Far too harsh IMHO.

Is this shtick?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@EyeOnNFL: Report: Any new Ray Rice contract won't be approved by NFL http://t.co/9cuCSeu56D via @AdamSchefter http://t.co/joFW8XDqQ8

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

To the people calling for his head now...what the hell did you think he had done before you saw this video??? We already knew the woman was knocked out cold. He was dragging her dead weight body off the elevator. I figured he had hit her multiple times. One punch was far less than I was expecting to see.

I don't know the law on it, but I doubt domestic abuse usually gets a person anymore than a night in jail if the person abused isn't willing to press charges. Even if they do press charges I imagine it's no more than a month for a first offense. And the timing of the video coming out makes me think TMZ and the police had this planned all along. Week 1 NFL.

The guy f*ed up. Big time. He's an idiot. He's abuser. He needs anger treatment. And given that the union allowed the NFL to be jury and judge on these matters he probably shouldn't play another down in the NFL until he complete a long treatment program. But common, did any of you really think this wasn't what happened? If so, you need to get your head out of your ###.

I assumed he simply failed to defend her from the elevator rail

kind of shocked that it was him all along

 

[Jobber]

@EyeOnNFL: Report: Any new Ray Rice contract won't be approved by NFL http://t.co/9cuCSeu56D via @AdamSchefter http://t.co/joFW8XDqQ8

As someone else mentioned earlier, this is them getting ahead of the inevitable Raiders phone call.

 

[socrates]

Does Rice ask to be reinstated after 6 games? And, if so, does the league reinstate him? (This assumes this is his first offence)

No way this happens. The NFL has been trying very hard to soften it's image the last few years with breast cancer awareness, etc. No way they let this guy back in. Honesly, I think his NFL career is over.

pretty sure a divorce is coming too.

She married him AFTER the incident on the video. Not so sure we can count on a pending divorce.

Well, my guess is she married him anyways because of the money. As his fiance she gets no piece of the pie, but as his wife she gets at least half. She'll probably get out while the gettin's good.

They have been together since high school. I doubt that money was her only motivation.

The word from inside the organization is that Ray lied to them about what happened.

I remember him confessing that they were fighting and that he hit her, knocking her out. In that video, I saw them fighting, and then he hit her knocking her out. It's not like he straddled her and pummeled her face in anything the public hadn't heard. Sure, they both down-played the incident, but has any player ever come out, fully owned up and described in raw detail the heinousness of their actions? We all want people to take responsibility for their actions. As awful as they were, Rice genuinely seemed to take responsibility and be remorseful. He admitted punching her and knocking her out; that's what I saw on that video today.

This is not what I recall. Even in his public press conference, Janay showed more remorse and acceptance of responsibility than Ray Rice did. The closest I recall Rice coming to showing remorse was saying that he and his wife wish they could take back that 30 seconds of their lives.

 

[Slapdash]

Goodell continues to lead from the front.

 

[Eminence]

@EyeOnNFL: Report: Any new Ray Rice contract won't be approved by NFL http://t.co/9cuCSeu56D via @AdamSchefter http://t.co/joFW8XDqQ8

As someone else mentioned earlier, this is them getting ahead of the inevitable Raiders phone call.

This is kind of ######ed. You've got people who abuse drugs in the league, people who use steroids, people who carry around guns, etc... etc... etc... but the guy who gets a lifetime ban is someone who makes a momentary lapse of judgement?

I'm sorry but it's not like he's out there with a gun or driving under the influence, two things that can actually KILL someone. He was having an issue with his significant other and acted in a very coldhearted manner but does that really warrant a ban? Larry Fitzgerald did something similar to his girl... Pacman Jones punched a girl... Daryl Washington suspended for a year.

The fact that no police charges were filed makes it laughable that the NFL has blackballed this guy. If anything, this is a personal dispute between him and his wife. I'd be more leery about a guy who keeps failing drug tests like Josh Gordon than I would Ray Rice. I HATE what the future is becoming. First, with Donald Sterling being illegally taped and using his personal statements as testimony against him and now with this Ray Rice fiasco.

It's dumb. The only silver lining is that Ray Rice gets all that money for absolutely free. But I don't think any of this is fair and I certainly don't think this video should have been available to the public. Why? Why can we get video coverage of Ray Rice punching his girlfriend in the face but not of the missile that hit the Pentagon on 9/11? This country is going to ####.

 

[Henry Ford]

Actually, no. New Jersey doesn't recognize spousal immunity in criminal cases. They could still have compelled her testimony at trial.

Assuming you mean spousal privilege, yes it does as a general rule. However, I'm not sure of the extent of it. I know that the spouse is allowed to testify against her husband in a crime against her or the children, I just don't know if she can be compelled to.ETA: I don't think she can.

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/evidenceprof/2014/03/according-to-espn-baltimore-ravens-running-back-ray-rice-and-janay-palmer-were-married-friday-what-makes-this-both-sad-a.html

Fully aware. What I don't know is how the common law has developed or how New Jersey courts have applied the law to cases like this.

 

[massraider]

Why can we get video coverage of Ray Rice punching his girlfriend in the face but not of the missile that hit the Pentagon on 9/11? This country is going to ####.

Ho-lee smokes.

 

[Henry Ford]

Why can we get video coverage of Ray Rice punching his girlfriend in the face but not of the missile that hit the Pentagon on 9/11? This country is going to ####.

Ho-lee smokes.

Yup.

 

[squistion]

Why? Why can we get video coverage of Ray Rice punching his girlfriend in the face but not of the missile that hit the Pentagon on 9/11? This country is going to ####.

 

[Eminence]

I really hate the mainstream media and how they invade people's lives.

Yes, everyone. People make mistakes. I'm sure everyone in their life has done at least one or two things that we regret. But when these things happen it should be used to allow the person to grow, not to be ridiculed on a grand stage.

America has no culture and definitely no class.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

@EyeOnNFL: Report: Any new Ray Rice contract won't be approved by NFL http://t.co/9cuCSeu56D via @AdamSchefter http://t.co/joFW8XDqQ8

If this is true, that's pretty outrageous IMO. Rice is a POS, but he's hardly the only wife beater in the league.

 

[WisWolvrns]

It's the new "media law". What they toot as a public outrage becomes one. White cops kills black teen, media outrage. Black cop kills white teen, hardly a blimp in the media. ISIS atrocities hardly the uproar it should be. I gotta agree with Eminence. Laws aren't creating verdicts, the verdicts are becoming more just popularity opinions driven by media shillings. Bread and circuses till the end I guess...

 

[GoBirds]

@EyeOnNFL: Report: Any new Ray Rice contract won't be approved by NFL http://t.co/9cuCSeu56D via @AdamSchefter http://t.co/joFW8XDqQ8

As someone else mentioned earlier, this is them getting ahead of the inevitable Raiders phone call.

This is kind of ######ed. You've got people who abuse drugs in the league, people who use steroids, people who carry around guns, etc... etc... etc... but the guy who gets a lifetime ban is someone who makes a momentary lapse of judgement?

I'm sorry but it's not like he's out there with a gun or driving under the influence, two things that can actually KILL someone. He was having an issue with his significant other and acted in a very coldhearted manner but does that really warrant a ban? Larry Fitzgerald did something similar to his girl... Pacman Jones punched a girl... Daryl Washington suspended for a year.

The fact that no police charges were filed makes it laughable that the NFL has blackballed this guy. If anything, this is a personal dispute between him and his wife. I'd be more leery about a guy who keeps failing drug tests like Josh Gordon than I would Ray Rice. I HATE what the future is becoming. First, with Donald Sterling being illegally taped and using his personal statements as testimony against him and now with this Ray Rice fiasco.

It's dumb. The only silver lining is that Ray Rice gets all that money for absolutely free. But I don't think any of this is fair and I certainly don't think this video should have been available to the public. Why? Why can we get video coverage of Ray Rice punching his girlfriend in the face but not of the missile that hit the Pentagon on 9/11? This country is going to ####.

I think your right it's just where the future is going. Back in the day OJ was beating the crap out of his wife before the murder and it was overlooked completely. Has happened a ton since and today went 0 to 60 in a second.

In VA we just saw a Governor looking at decades in jail for accepting gifts from a businessman looking for him to push his bs medical product. It's different that it's politics but similar in that this stuff has gone one behind the scenes forever now they wanted this guy's head and got it.

It's good when scumbags are dealt with but wow. Last week the league said punishment was 6 games.....media goes wild and indefinite ban.

 

[squistion]

Derek Valcourt WJZ ‏@DerekWJZ

Many retailers around Maryland refusing to sell #RayRice merchandise -- boxing it up. @cbsbaltimore pic.twitter.com/YYWrjGNsgS

 

[Eminence]

Yeah, this can't be the final say on this. If you're telling me that Ray Rice is never going to play another snap, I have a huge objection to that.

If there were video cameras everywhere, nobody would be playing in the NFL.

 

[Proust Loves Cake]

I really hate the mainstream media and how they invade people's lives.

Yes, everyone. People make mistakes. I'm sure everyone in their life has done at least one or two things that we regret. But when these things happen it should be used to allow the person to grow, not to be ridiculed on a grand stage.

America has no culture and definitely no class.

This is so interesting. I think ridicule is well deserved in this scenario. For the NFL, the NJ district attorney, the Ravens, certain media types, and especially Ray Rice. I'm sure some people are fans of the team or have Rice on their fantasy squad, and this have a self-focused perspective and can't quite see past that. Others just don't like to see people punished for wrong-doing. Fortunately, those two segments represent a really small minority in our culture.

 

[Eminence]

Furthermore, the girl never pressed charges. Should it not be by her consent to have that video tape released?

She is the victim after all, is there a known police report? Somebody is going to end up somebody if this doesn't get negotiated.

 

[Eminence]

I really hate the mainstream media and how they invade people's lives.

Yes, everyone. People make mistakes. I'm sure everyone in their life has done at least one or two things that we regret. But when these things happen it should be used to allow the person to grow, not to be ridiculed on a grand stage.

America has no culture and definitely no class.

This is so interesting. I think ridicule is well deserved in this scenario. For the NFL, the NJ district attorney, the Ravens, certain media types, and especially Ray Rice. I'm sure some people are fans of the team or have Rice on their fantasy squad, and this have a self-focused perspective and can't quite see past that. Others just don't like to see people punished for wrong-doing. Fortunately, those two segments represent a really small minority in our culture.

The girl didn't press charges and I think she has a better perspective than both of us.

Yeah, her husband hit her. She got past it, married him and now you just cost her husband her job.

If this is really about the girl and her struggle, you made her life a living hell for doing this to her husband.

 

[Slapdash]

So much for the new domestic violence policy eh? The NFL is such a joke at how slow and arbitrarily they punish things.