Rice talks Moss (1 Viewer)

[yetiknight]

This is what drives me crazy about this whole debate. Moss could have made a clear case that he was on the same level as Rice..... oh and Hutson(SSOG knows stuff). Fact: Hutson and Rice had no peers. They were so far ahead of the rest it isn't even a queston of who was the best of their time, but who is the best of all time. Clearly Rice carries that torch and it takes some convincing to get Hutson a little consideration.

Moss has to be constantly be graded against his contemporaries. For three years he wasn't even in that discussion. Why? Because he played on a bad team? That is part of it. I would argue that Rice wouldn't let any below average teams he played for squander any of their potential. He set a very high standard of expectations. Moss adhered to the standards being set by guys like Aaron Brooks. He slacked off. He quit trying. And not just for a play or two. He did it for whole seasons.

This year we are constanly being reminded of what an extroidinary player Moss is. Too bad there are still people saying they would rather have TO or Harrison. No disrespect to those guys, but when everyone is at their best, Moss has no equal. Maybe I am the selfish one, but I wish we had seen the best from this guy his whole career, for every game, on every play.

If there is a "Greatest of all time when he feels like it". Moss is that guy.

 

[Raider Nation]

Moss has to be constantly be graded against his contemporaries. For three years he wasn't even in that discussion. Why? Because he played on a bad team? That is part of it. I would argue that Rice wouldn't let any below average teams he played for squander any of their potential. He set a very high standard of expectations. Moss adhered to the standards being set by guys like Aaron Brooks. He slacked off. He quit trying. And not just for a play or two. He did it for whole seasons.If there is a "Greatest of all time when he feels like it". Moss is that guy.

DAMN fella....Moss is the ultimate frontrunner.

 

[Road Warriors]

Rice talks Moss

By Mike Reiss, Globe Staff December 13, 2007

Former San Francisco 49ers receiver Jerry Rice, who holds the NFL record for touchdown catches in a season with 22, talks to the Associated Press about Randy Moss' pursuit of his record.

Rice tells reporter Howard Ulman that he will congratulate Moss (19 TDs) if he breaks the record.

"The only thing that bothers me a little bit is that I did it during the strike year," Rice says to the AP. "It was 12 games for me. If he had done it in 12 games, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. But I'm still going to congratulate him and do all of that.

"But I'm surprised the league is taking it upon themselves to give him 16 games to do it."

umm, he means 22 tds in 12 games with someof them coming against SCABS, right?

No, he didn't play the 3 "strike" games. There were 15 games played that year. Rice played the 12 before the strike, but didn't cross to play the 3 games where the replacements played.

 

[Keith Lewis]

From a talent standpoint Jerry could possibly hold Moss' jock strap with help from Harrison.

Rice was way more talented. If you wanna say Moss was born genetically superior with size/speed, fine. I don't think Moss could hold Rices' jock if we're talking "talent". Talent = a capacity for achievement or success; I'd say Jerrys achievement/success outweighs Moss and it ain't even a discussion.

So by that logic Emmitt Smith has the most "talent" of any other RB because of his capacity of achievement and success outweighs the likes of Barry, Walter, and Jim Brown? Emmitt has more superbowl wins and the rushing record = Most talented. Im sure there are other backs with more genetically superior size/speed, but they lack your definition of talent....so that makes Smith the most talented back of all time do you agree?

No I don't agree. I actually watched Jerry Rice play in every game of his career. I think Jerry is the best ever and Moss isn't in the discussion, in reality nobody is in the discussion. Emmitt was great but I don't have him as the best ever, I'd take Barry/Walter over him easily, I have only seen Jim Brown highlights and they are more impressive than Emmitt but I really can't judge Jim Brown, let the historians do that. Jerry Rice is more talented than Moss, Jerry Rice is more motivated than Moss, Jerry Rice is a more special player than Moss, Jerry Rice has better stats than Moss, Jerry Rice is more clutch than Moss. I don't know what else to say. Lots of guys including Moss have better genetics, Calvin Johnson is genetically better, does that make him better than Rice? You misinterpreted what I was saying, which is right on par with the evolution of these forums this season, no shock there.

 

[Keith Lewis]

And before I get the "You're a homer" card pulled out on me. Brady = Montana and just may pass him up before it's all done, and I do have Montana as the best QB ever. (Anyone who throws out Johnny Unitas or any other old timer, I have no clue how good they were, just talking in my lifetime).

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

You can't compare Rice to Moss. They're completely different players, both in how they approached the game and their playstyles. How about we have a thread where we don't compare them but reflect on their greatness? Because both are HoFers.

Rice is better in every way except Moss can make catches over defenders better because he was born taller which is genetics and in no way skill.

Moss is quite a bit faster. These guys are about as different as two all-time greats in the same position can be.

 

[Master of Past and Present]

From a talent standpoint Jerry could possibly hold Moss' jock strap with help from Harrison.

Rice was way more talented. If you wanna say Moss was born genetically superior with size/speed, fine. I don't think Moss could hold Rices' jock if we're talking "talent". Talent = a capacity for achievement or success;

I'd say Jerrys achievement/success outweighs Moss and it ain't even a discussion.

So by that logic Emmitt Smith has the most "talent" of any other RB because of his capacity of achievement and success outweighs the likes of Barry, Walter, and Jim Brown? Emmitt has more superbowl wins and the rushing record = Most talented. Im sure there are other backs with more genetically superior size/speed, but they lack your definition of talent....so that makes Smith the most talented back of all time do you agree?

No I don't agree. I actually watched Jerry Rice play in every game of his career. I think Jerry is the best ever and Moss isn't in the discussion, in reality nobody is in the discussion. Emmitt was great but I don't have him as the best ever, I'd take Barry/Walter over him easily, I have only seen Jim Brown highlights and they are more impressive than Emmitt but I really can't judge Jim Brown, let the historians do that. Jerry Rice is more talented than Moss, Jerry Rice is more motivated than Moss, Jerry Rice is a more special player than Moss, Jerry Rice has better stats than Moss, Jerry Rice is more clutch than Moss. I don't know what else to say. Lots of guys including Moss have better genetics, Calvin Johnson is genetically better, does that make him better than Rice? You misinterpreted what I was saying, which is right on par with the evolution of these forums this season, no shock there.

Motivation, stats, and clutch there is no arguement. Special really depends what area you look at. If you look at heart and will, then Rice kills Moss but if you look at physical gifts I don't see how Rice touches Moss. Moss is 2 inches taller, much better vertical, and has killer speed. People talk about Rice's hands not being the best when he arrived and developed them but Moss always had great hands. I don't see how Rice wins on talent in any way. You put Rice's heart and will in Moss' body and he would outproduce everything Jerry did if he played the same length as Rice. Moss was making catches Rice only dreamed of in college. It's too bad Moss never dreamed of having Rice's work ethic cause Rice ethic, heart, will + talent of Moss = priceless viewing experience.

 

[candy bar]

From a talent standpoint Jerry could possibly hold Moss' jock strap with help from Harrison.

Rice was way more talented. If you wanna say Moss was born genetically superior with size/speed, fine. I don't think Moss could hold Rices' jock if we're talking "talent". Talent = a capacity for achievement or success;

I'd say Jerrys achievement/success outweighs Moss and it ain't even a discussion.

So by that logic Emmitt Smith has the most "talent" of any other RB because of his capacity of achievement and success outweighs the likes of Barry, Walter, and Jim Brown? Emmitt has more superbowl wins and the rushing record = Most talented. Im sure there are other backs with more genetically superior size/speed, but they lack your definition of talent....so that makes Smith the most talented back of all time do you agree?

No I don't agree. I actually watched Jerry Rice play in every game of his career. I think Jerry is the best ever and Moss isn't in the discussion, in reality nobody is in the discussion. Emmitt was great but I don't have him as the best ever, I'd take Barry/Walter over him easily, I have only seen Jim Brown highlights and they are more impressive than Emmitt but I really can't judge Jim Brown, let the historians do that. Jerry Rice is more talented than Moss, Jerry Rice is more motivated than Moss, Jerry Rice is a more special player than Moss, Jerry Rice has better stats than Moss, Jerry Rice is more clutch than Moss. I don't know what else to say. Lots of guys including Moss have better genetics, Calvin Johnson is genetically better, does that make him better than Rice? You misinterpreted what I was saying, which is right on par with the evolution of these forums this season, no shock there.

Motivation, stats, and clutch there is no arguement. Special really depends what area you look at. If you look at heart and will, then Rice kills Moss but if you look at physical gifts I don't see how Rice touches Moss. Moss is 2 inches taller, much better vertical, and has killer speed. People talk about Rice's hands not being the best when he arrived and developed them but Moss always had great hands. I don't see how Rice wins on talent in any way. You put Rice's heart and will in Moss' body and he would outproduce everything Jerry did if he played the same length as Rice. Moss was making catches Rice only dreamed of in college. It's too bad Moss never dreamed of having Rice's work ethic cause Rice ethic, heart, will + talent of Moss = priceless viewing experience.

Do you think Calvin Johnson is more talented than Rice?

 

[az_prof]

funny, once you took away Montana and Young, Rice seemed pretty average.

Exactly. Rice played most of his career with two HOF QBs: Moss has never played with a HOF QB before until this year.

 

[Righetti]

22td's in 12 games is just amazing. For me comparing Randy Moss to Jerry Rice was like comparing Mario Lemieux to Wayne Gretzky. Even though Mario Lemieux was more physically gifted than Gretzky, Gretzky has all the records. Part of the reason was that Gretzky played with a better supporting cast for a longer time. I look at Moss as the Mario Lemieux of the NFL, a greater phyisical talent than Rice, but the QB's throwing to Moss didnt approach the skills of the Montana and Young that were thowing to Rice. With that said, if Moss breaks the record with say 23 or 24 td's in 16 games, it just doesnt compare to 22 td's in 12 games.

He has only played for him for one season but Tom Brady will go down as every part the QB that Montana and Young were

 

[candy bar]

funny, once you took away Montana and Young, Rice seemed pretty average.

Exactly. Rice played most of his career with two HOF QBs: Moss has never played with a HOF QB before until this year.

Exactly what? Where is the evidence offered that once you take away Montana and Young that Rice was average?

 

[Franchise Playa]

From a talent standpoint Jerry could possibly hold Moss' jock strap with help from Harrison.

Rice was way more talented. If you wanna say Moss was born genetically superior with size/speed, fine. I don't think Moss could hold Rices' jock if we're talking "talent". Talent = a capacity for achievement or success;

I'd say Jerrys achievement/success outweighs Moss and it ain't even a discussion.

So by that logic Emmitt Smith has the most "talent" of any other RB because of his capacity of achievement and success outweighs the likes of Barry, Walter, and Jim Brown? Emmitt has more superbowl wins and the rushing record = Most talented. Im sure there are other backs with more genetically superior size/speed, but they lack your definition of talent....so that makes Smith the most talented back of all time do you agree?

No I don't agree. I actually watched Jerry Rice play in every game of his career. I think Jerry is the best ever and Moss isn't in the discussion, in reality nobody is in the discussion. Emmitt was great but I don't have him as the best ever, I'd take Barry/Walter over him easily, I have only seen Jim Brown highlights and they are more impressive than Emmitt but I really can't judge Jim Brown, let the historians do that. Jerry Rice is more talented than Moss, Jerry Rice is more motivated than Moss, Jerry Rice is a more special player than Moss, Jerry Rice has better stats than Moss, Jerry Rice is more clutch than Moss. I don't know what else to say. Lots of guys including Moss have better genetics, Calvin Johnson is genetically better, does that make him better than Rice? You misinterpreted what I was saying, which is right on par with the evolution of these forums this season, no shock there.

How can I "misinterpret" a definition you yourself wrote? Should I quote you again? "Talent = a capacity for achievement or success;

I'd say Jerrys achievement/success outweighs Moss and it ain't even a discussion.

I repeated your exact definition of talent and applied that to Emmitt. By your own definition of talent Emmitt Smith should be the greatest RB of all time (and as you would say "it aint even a discussion"). And now you say you would take more genetically talented backs with less achievement over Emmitt who so perfectly fits your description. So how exactly did I misinterpret by repeating your own words?

What got you riled in the first place is that someone stated Moss is more talented than Rice...Clearly that meant physically gifted not that he is better overall. Rice is not the most physically gifted....That is not said as a diss but it is well known. That does not mean he is not still the greatest...in fact it enhances that more because he didn't have the worlds greatest measurables. Im not sure why you seem to have such disdain for Moss but hey to each his own....

 

[Master of Past and Present]

From a talent standpoint Jerry could possibly hold Moss' jock strap with help from Harrison.

Rice was way more talented. If you wanna say Moss was born genetically superior with size/speed, fine. I don't think Moss could hold Rices' jock if we're talking "talent". Talent = a capacity for achievement or success;

I'd say Jerrys achievement/success outweighs Moss and it ain't even a discussion.

So by that logic Emmitt Smith has the most "talent" of any other RB because of his capacity of achievement and success outweighs the likes of Barry, Walter, and Jim Brown? Emmitt has more superbowl wins and the rushing record = Most talented. Im sure there are other backs with more genetically superior size/speed, but they lack your definition of talent....so that makes Smith the most talented back of all time do you agree?

No I don't agree. I actually watched Jerry Rice play in every game of his career. I think Jerry is the best ever and Moss isn't in the discussion, in reality nobody is in the discussion. Emmitt was great but I don't have him as the best ever, I'd take Barry/Walter over him easily, I have only seen Jim Brown highlights and they are more impressive than Emmitt but I really can't judge Jim Brown, let the historians do that. Jerry Rice is more talented than Moss, Jerry Rice is more motivated than Moss, Jerry Rice is a more special player than Moss, Jerry Rice has better stats than Moss, Jerry Rice is more clutch than Moss. I don't know what else to say. Lots of guys including Moss have better genetics, Calvin Johnson is genetically better, does that make him better than Rice? You misinterpreted what I was saying, which is right on par with the evolution of these forums this season, no shock there.

Motivation, stats, and clutch there is no arguement. Special really depends what area you look at. If you look at heart and will, then Rice kills Moss but if you look at physical gifts I don't see how Rice touches Moss. Moss is 2 inches taller, much better vertical, and has killer speed. People talk about Rice's hands not being the best when he arrived and developed them but Moss always had great hands. I don't see how Rice wins on talent in any way. You put Rice's heart and will in Moss' body and he would outproduce everything Jerry did if he played the same length as Rice. Moss was making catches Rice only dreamed of in college. It's too bad Moss never dreamed of having Rice's work ethic cause Rice ethic, heart, will + talent of Moss = priceless viewing experience.

Do you think Calvin Johnson is more talented than Rice?

I haven't seen Johnson enough (Not sure if I have watched a Lions game since Moss left Minnesota). My best friend growing up was a Rice/49ers fan so we often watched their games (on tv or he would get tapes) and I was a Moss fan since Marshall (same thing as Rice, watched games or got tapes(. I have watched them both enough to see that Moss just can do things Rice couldn't no matter how much heart/will Jerry has. That Rice homer who despises Moss' attitude agrees that Moss is better than Rice in talent. From what little I know I would agree with the statement that Johnson is genetically better. What does that tell me? That if I was to be given the choice of starting from Johnson's genetic base and Rice's genetic base, I would chose Johnson's and that would give me a leg up on those that take Rice's. Does that mean I will be better? No, maybe you (who sounds like he would take Rice) would out perform me from work ethic, heart, will. Does that mean taking Rice's genetics/born given talents is better? No, it just means you did more with them than I did with Johnson's.

Moss' born given talents + Rice's heart, will, ethic vs. Rice's born given talents + Rice's heart, will ethic vs. Rice's born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethics vs. Moss' born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethic

What order do you think it comes out in for best career? Mine would be:

Moss' born given talents + Rice's heart, will, ethic

Rice's born given talents + Rice's heart, will ethic

Moss' born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethic

Rice's born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethics

Clearly I think Moss has better talent than Rice but just as clearly it shows I think Rice's heart, will, ethic is more important because it's what you do with those gifts and not who is born with more. Moss was born with more, Jerry has and will still have done more with what he was born with when Moss retires.

 

[candy bar]

From a talent standpoint Jerry could possibly hold Moss' jock strap with help from Harrison.

Rice was way more talented. If you wanna say Moss was born genetically superior with size/speed, fine. I don't think Moss could hold Rices' jock if we're talking "talent". Talent = a capacity for achievement or success;

I'd say Jerrys achievement/success outweighs Moss and it ain't even a discussion.

So by that logic Emmitt Smith has the most "talent" of any other RB because of his capacity of achievement and success outweighs the likes of Barry, Walter, and Jim Brown? Emmitt has more superbowl wins and the rushing record = Most talented. Im sure there are other backs with more genetically superior size/speed, but they lack your definition of talent....so that makes Smith the most talented back of all time do you agree?

No I don't agree. I actually watched Jerry Rice play in every game of his career. I think Jerry is the best ever and Moss isn't in the discussion, in reality nobody is in the discussion. Emmitt was great but I don't have him as the best ever, I'd take Barry/Walter over him easily, I have only seen Jim Brown highlights and they are more impressive than Emmitt but I really can't judge Jim Brown, let the historians do that. Jerry Rice is more talented than Moss, Jerry Rice is more motivated than Moss, Jerry Rice is a more special player than Moss, Jerry Rice has better stats than Moss, Jerry Rice is more clutch than Moss. I don't know what else to say. Lots of guys including Moss have better genetics, Calvin Johnson is genetically better, does that make him better than Rice? You misinterpreted what I was saying, which is right on par with the evolution of these forums this season, no shock there.

Motivation, stats, and clutch there is no arguement. Special really depends what area you look at. If you look at heart and will, then Rice kills Moss but if you look at physical gifts I don't see how Rice touches Moss. Moss is 2 inches taller, much better vertical, and has killer speed. People talk about Rice's hands not being the best when he arrived and developed them but Moss always had great hands. I don't see how Rice wins on talent in any way. You put Rice's heart and will in Moss' body and he would outproduce everything Jerry did if he played the same length as Rice. Moss was making catches Rice only dreamed of in college. It's too bad Moss never dreamed of having Rice's work ethic cause Rice ethic, heart, will + talent of Moss = priceless viewing experience.

Do you think Calvin Johnson is more talented than Rice?

I haven't seen Johnson enough (Not sure if I have watched a Lions game since Moss left Minnesota). My best friend growing up was a Rice/49ers fan so we often watched their games (on tv or he would get tapes) and I was a Moss fan since Marshall (same thing as Rice, watched games or got tapes(. I have watched them both enough to see that Moss just can do things Rice couldn't no matter how much heart/will Jerry has. That Rice homer who despises Moss' attitude agrees that Moss is better than Rice in talent. From what little I know I would agree with the statement that Johnson is genetically better. What does that tell me? That if I was to be given the choice of starting from Johnson's genetic base and Rice's genetic base, I would chose Johnson's and that would give me a leg up on those that take Rice's. Does that mean I will be better? No, maybe you (who sounds like he would take Rice) would out perform me from work ethic, heart, will. Does that mean taking Rice's genetics/born given talents is better? No, it just means you did more with them than I did with Johnson's.

Moss' born given talents + Rice's heart, will, ethic vs. Rice's born given talents + Rice's heart, will ethic vs. Rice's born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethics vs. Moss' born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethic

What order do you think it comes out in for best career? Mine would be:

Moss' born given talents + Rice's heart, will, ethic

Rice's born given talents + Rice's heart, will ethic

Moss' born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethic

Rice's born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethics

Clearly I think Moss has better talent than Rice but just as clearly it shows I think Rice's heart, will, ethic is more important because it's what you do with those gifts and not who is born with more. Moss was born with more, Jerry has and will still have done more with what he was born with when Moss retires.

Was Rice not born with his heart, will and ethics? Was Moss not born with his?

 

[Master of Past and Present]

From a talent standpoint Jerry could possibly hold Moss' jock strap with help from Harrison.

Rice was way more talented. If you wanna say Moss was born genetically superior with size/speed, fine. I don't think Moss could hold Rices' jock if we're talking "talent". Talent = a capacity for achievement or success;

I'd say Jerrys achievement/success outweighs Moss and it ain't even a discussion.

So by that logic Emmitt Smith has the most "talent" of any other RB because of his capacity of achievement and success outweighs the likes of Barry, Walter, and Jim Brown? Emmitt has more superbowl wins and the rushing record = Most talented. Im sure there are other backs with more genetically superior size/speed, but they lack your definition of talent....so that makes Smith the most talented back of all time do you agree?

No I don't agree. I actually watched Jerry Rice play in every game of his career. I think Jerry is the best ever and Moss isn't in the discussion, in reality nobody is in the discussion. Emmitt was great but I don't have him as the best ever, I'd take Barry/Walter over him easily, I have only seen Jim Brown highlights and they are more impressive than Emmitt but I really can't judge Jim Brown, let the historians do that. Jerry Rice is more talented than Moss, Jerry Rice is more motivated than Moss, Jerry Rice is a more special player than Moss, Jerry Rice has better stats than Moss, Jerry Rice is more clutch than Moss. I don't know what else to say. Lots of guys including Moss have better genetics, Calvin Johnson is genetically better, does that make him better than Rice? You misinterpreted what I was saying, which is right on par with the evolution of these forums this season, no shock there.

Motivation, stats, and clutch there is no arguement. Special really depends what area you look at. If you look at heart and will, then Rice kills Moss but if you look at physical gifts I don't see how Rice touches Moss. Moss is 2 inches taller, much better vertical, and has killer speed. People talk about Rice's hands not being the best when he arrived and developed them but Moss always had great hands. I don't see how Rice wins on talent in any way. You put Rice's heart and will in Moss' body and he would outproduce everything Jerry did if he played the same length as Rice. Moss was making catches Rice only dreamed of in college. It's too bad Moss never dreamed of having Rice's work ethic cause Rice ethic, heart, will + talent of Moss = priceless viewing experience.

Do you think Calvin Johnson is more talented than Rice?

I haven't seen Johnson enough (Not sure if I have watched a Lions game since Moss left Minnesota). My best friend growing up was a Rice/49ers fan so we often watched their games (on tv or he would get tapes) and I was a Moss fan since Marshall (same thing as Rice, watched games or got tapes(. I have watched them both enough to see that Moss just can do things Rice couldn't no matter how much heart/will Jerry has. That Rice homer who despises Moss' attitude agrees that Moss is better than Rice in talent. From what little I know I would agree with the statement that Johnson is genetically better. What does that tell me? That if I was to be given the choice of starting from Johnson's genetic base and Rice's genetic base, I would chose Johnson's and that would give me a leg up on those that take Rice's. Does that mean I will be better? No, maybe you (who sounds like he would take Rice) would out perform me from work ethic, heart, will. Does that mean taking Rice's genetics/born given talents is better? No, it just means you did more with them than I did with Johnson's.

Moss' born given talents + Rice's heart, will, ethic vs. Rice's born given talents + Rice's heart, will ethic vs. Rice's born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethics vs. Moss' born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethic

What order do you think it comes out in for best career? Mine would be:

Moss' born given talents + Rice's heart, will, ethic

Rice's born given talents + Rice's heart, will ethic

Moss' born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethic

Rice's born given talents + Moss' heart, will, ethics

Clearly I think Moss has better talent than Rice but just as clearly it shows I think Rice's heart, will, ethic is more important because it's what you do with those gifts and not who is born with more. Moss was born with more, Jerry has and will still have done more with what he was born with when Moss retires.

Was Rice not born with his heart, will and ethics? Was Moss not born with his?

I would say no. I know my work ethic is largly based off my parents and I highly doubt it would be the same if I grew up with the Rice fan who was my best friend. Most the people I grew up with got theirs from their home environments. The hardest working kids had parents who were hard workers and stressed it. Ones who sluffed off had parents that didn't care as much or stress it as much. My best friend scored the highest with another kid in the class for ACT. My best friend barely graduated with the class and the other kid was in the top 5 or so (parents expected more). If my best friend was born into my family with natural ability like that then there would have been no way he barely finishes high school on time. A C was an F in my house, his house was fine (not happy but not a huge deal made of it) with anything as long as you graduated. His dad weas into sports though and this kid practiced all the time and he had an incrediable ethic for sports. Do you really believe he was born with the abilty to have a good sports work ethic and a bad school one?

I would completely disagree with saying they were born with them.

 

[candy bar]

Was Rice not born with his heart, will and ethics? Was Moss not born with his?

I would say no. I know my work ethic is largly based off my parents and I highly doubt it would be the same if I grew up with the Rice fan who was my best friend. Most the people I grew up with got theirs from their home environments. The hardest working kids had parents who were hard workers and stressed it. Ones who sluffed off had parents that didn't care as much or stress it as much. My best friend scored the highest with another kid in the class for ACT. My best friend barely graduated with the class and the other kid was in the top 5 or so (parents expected more). If my best friend was born into my family with natural ability like that then there would have been no way he barely finishes high school on time. A C was an F in my house, his house was fine (not happy but not a huge deal made of it) with anything as long as you graduated. His dad weas into sports though and this kid practiced all the time and he had an incrediable ethic for sports. Do you really believe he was born with the abilty to have a good sports work ethic and a bad school one?

I would completely disagree with saying they were born with them.

It sounds like you both decided to put your energy into different areas; your friend, sports; you, school.I know Randy Moss wasn't born with Jerry Rice's work ethic, heart or will. He was born with Randy Moss' work ethic, heart and will. Perhaps in Moss grew up in Rice's home, his work ethic, heart and will would have more closely resembled Rice's. But Moss grew up in Moss' home.

 

[Master of Past and Present]

Was Rice not born with his heart, will and ethics? Was Moss not born with his?

I would say no. I know my work ethic is largly based off my parents and I highly doubt it would be the same if I grew up with the Rice fan who was my best friend. Most the people I grew up with got theirs from their home environments. The hardest working kids had parents who were hard workers and stressed it. Ones who sluffed off had parents that didn't care as much or stress it as much. My best friend scored the highest with another kid in the class for ACT. My best friend barely graduated with the class and the other kid was in the top 5 or so (parents expected more). If my best friend was born into my family with natural ability like that then there would have been no way he barely finishes high school on time. A C was an F in my house, his house was fine (not happy but not a huge deal made of it) with anything as long as you graduated. His dad weas into sports though and this kid practiced all the time and he had an incrediable ethic for sports. Do you really believe he was born with the abilty to have a good sports work ethic and a bad school one?

I would completely disagree with saying they were born with them.

It sounds like you both decided to put your energy into different areas; your friend, sports; you, school.I know Randy Moss wasn't born with Jerry Rice's work ethic, heart or will. He was born with Randy Moss' work ethic, heart and will. Perhaps in Moss grew up in Rice's home, his work ethic, heart and will would have more closely resembled Rice's. But Moss grew up in Moss' home.

And I still lettered more in the sports we went out for despite his focus in a singular area. So you admit that growing up affects your heart, will, ethic? Sounds like he wasn't born with the one he has today then doesn't it if you admit it could be different somewhere else. How is either born with their adult ethic, heart, will if it gets affected by their environment growing up?

I guess this is where we agree to disagree because I don't see a way you will concede anything to Randy Moss at this point.

 

[candy bar]

Was Rice not born with his heart, will and ethics? Was Moss not born with his?

I would say no. I know my work ethic is largly based off my parents and I highly doubt it would be the same if I grew up with the Rice fan who was my best friend. Most the people I grew up with got theirs from their home environments. The hardest working kids had parents who were hard workers and stressed it. Ones who sluffed off had parents that didn't care as much or stress it as much. My best friend scored the highest with another kid in the class for ACT. My best friend barely graduated with the class and the other kid was in the top 5 or so (parents expected more). If my best friend was born into my family with natural ability like that then there would have been no way he barely finishes high school on time. A C was an F in my house, his house was fine (not happy but not a huge deal made of it) with anything as long as you graduated. His dad weas into sports though and this kid practiced all the time and he had an incrediable ethic for sports. Do you really believe he was born with the abilty to have a good sports work ethic and a bad school one?

I would completely disagree with saying they were born with them.

It sounds like you both decided to put your energy into different areas; your friend, sports; you, school.I know Randy Moss wasn't born with Jerry Rice's work ethic, heart or will. He was born with Randy Moss' work ethic, heart and will. Perhaps in Moss grew up in Rice's home, his work ethic, heart and will would have more closely resembled Rice's. But Moss grew up in Moss' home.

And I still lettered more in the sports we went out for despite his focus in a singular area. So you admit that growing up affects your heart, will, ethic? Sounds like he wasn't born with the one he has today then doesn't it if you admit it could be different somewhere else. How is either born with their adult ethic, heart, will if it gets affected by their environment growing up?

I guess this is where we agree to disagree because I don't see a way you will concede anything to Randy Moss at this point.

We're all born with some potential for work ethic, heart, will, drive, whatever. Certainly your environment affects what percentage of it you actually reach. You've got absolutely no idea whether or not Moss reached his absolute potential in terms of work ethic (since, ya know, he's currently having possibly the greatest WR season of all time), and his capacity is just a lot smaller than Jerry Rice's. There's a reason that Rice's work ethic is legendary -- almost no one has the ability to match it. Rice was obviously born with something special, as is any all time great.

 

[kilrb]

I thought this thread was about the record? Moss will probably break the single season TD Reception record, though he hasn't yet. But to say Moss is superior to Jerry Rice is absurd. Seems to me alot of the people posting on Moss' favor must not have seen Jerry play through his career especially his prime. This coming from a cowboy that hated Rice but respects his game to the utmost. Moss is a great WR and should be mentioned with the best but Jerry, as of now is the best of all time period. Look at Moss' first ten years versus Jerry's first ten.....case closed. Now could Moss surpass Jerry? Yes with time and several more great seasons.

http://www.nfl.com/players/randymoss/profi...;campaign=gsi_g

http://www.nfl.com/players/jerryrice/profi...;campaign=gsi_g

 

[Franchise Playa]

I thought this thread was about the record? Moss will probably break the single season TD Reception record, though he hasn't yet. But to say Moss is superior to Jerry Rice is absurd. Seems to me alot of the people posting on Moss' favor must not have seen Jerry play through his career especially his prime. This coming from a cowboy that hated Rice but respects his game to the utmost. Moss is a great WR and should be mentioned with the best but Jerry, as of now is the best of all time period. Look at Moss' first ten years versus Jerry's first ten.....case closed. Now could Moss surpass Jerry? Yes with time and several more great seasons.

http://www.nfl.com/players/randymoss/profi...;campaign=gsi_g

http://www.nfl.com/players/jerryrice/profi...;campaign=gsi_g

The only thing most here have said about Moss being superior to Rice in is god given Talent. Physical ability

 

[MarshallRob]

Other than Moss being taller and maybe faster in a sprint (anyone know their 40m times?), Rice is superior in every way.

Bill Walsh on Jerry Rice: "There is no part of his game that is not remarkable...He is most unusual in that he is both a great possession receiver and a deadly deep threat. The reason is his unfathomable ability once he latches onto the ball. I've never seen anyone who can move around, through, and away from defensive backs like he can."

 

[Bill Lust]

This thread has taking a turn toward the existential.

 

[Koya]

Moss might be the most physically gifted WR to play the game.

But that doesnt make him the best ever. Daryl Strawberry might have been the most physically gifted baseball player I ever saw play. So?

 

[Pai Mei]

Why can't the former athletes be happy that their record is being broken? It was held long enough. These guys make the normally pompous Dan Marino look gracious when his record was broken by Manning a few years ago.

Because in order to reach the pinnacle of such a highly-competitive profession, its VERY likely a person has to have competitive nature that borders on being totally out-of-control. If they didn't have an enormous ego, they probably would never make it. That's why Jerry Rice, Dan Marino, Don Shula, Bill Belichick and all the rest seem like ###holes. Its because they almost have to have that immense competitive nature to be the very best.The tiniest details that seem petty to the average person, things most would take a deep breath and move on, that will stew about for an eternity until they figure out a way to get the upper hand.

 

[nashua55]

22td's in 12 games is just amazing. For me comparing Randy Moss to Jerry Rice was like comparing Mario Lemieux to Wayne Gretzky. Even though Mario Lemieux was more physically gifted than Gretzky, Gretzky has all the records. Part of the reason was that Gretzky played with a better supporting cast for a longer time. I look at Moss as the Mario Lemieux of the NFL, a greater phyisical talent than Rice, but the QB's throwing to Moss didnt approach the skills of the Montana and Young that were thowing to Rice. With that said, if Moss breaks the record with say 23 or 24 td's in 16 games, it just doesnt compare to 22 td's in 12 games.

He has only played for him for one season but Tom Brady will go down as every part the QB that Montana and Young were

I agree Brady will go down as possibly the greatest QB ever or atleast in the top 5. Imagine if Randy Moss had played the last 5 years will Brady, I think Randy Moss statistically would be alot closer to Rice if not better. Every place Moss has played, except Oakland, all the QB's throwing to him had career years. To me Randy Moss is the most gifted WR I have ever seen, no disrespect to Rice, but I never saw a player time a leap to catch a deep ball in traffic with ease like Moss does. My one knock on Moss is he somewhat one dimensional in that , he won't catch a short pass and turn it into an 80 yd td. He is mainly a deep threat, and as a deep threat there has been no one better than him. As good as Moss is, Rice's career numbers are too great for Moss to break, so in the end Rice will still be considered the greatest WR of all time. I dont really care if Rice is considered the greatest of alltime, with the career he had , he is well deserving of that title, but in my eyes Randy Moss is every bit his equal.

 

[Franchise Playa]

Moss might be the most physically gifted WR to play the game. But that doesnt make him the best ever. Daryl Strawberry might have been the most physically gifted baseball player I ever saw play. So?

again I don't think anyone in this thread says Moss is a better WR than Rice...All that was said was he was more PHYSICALLY GIFTED. Im not sure why everyone assumes that automatically means your saying Moss is better by saying that. Or are people just reading it that way?

 

[SSOG]

Every place Moss has played, except Oakland, all the QB's throwing to him had career years.

Actually, Daunte Culpepper had a career year when Moss got hurt. His numbers were better in every respect (yards, TDs, turnovers) when Moss was off the field than they were when Moss was on.

 

[nashua55]

Every place Moss has played, except Oakland, all the QB's throwing to him had career years.

Actually, Daunte Culpepper had a career year when Moss got hurt. His numbers were better in every respect (yards, TDs, turnovers) when Moss was off the field than they were when Moss was on.

You are kidding right? So what you are saying the 13 TD's Moss caught in 13 games that year didnt count toward Culpepper having a career year? Moss made Culpepper look like he was a better QB than he really was. The year Moss left for Oakland, Culpepper was awful, 6 td's and 12 int's in 7 games before he blew out his knee. Culpepper was lost without Moss.

 

[candy bar]

Every place Moss has played, except Oakland, all the QB's throwing to him had career years.

Actually, Daunte Culpepper had a career year when Moss got hurt. His numbers were better in every respect (yards, TDs, turnovers) when Moss was off the field than they were when Moss was on.

You are kidding right? So what you are saying the 13 TD's Moss caught in 13 games that year didnt count toward Culpepper having a career year? Moss made Culpepper look like he was a better QB than he really was. The year Moss left for Oakland, Culpepper was awful, 6 td's and 12 int's in 7 games before he blew out his knee. Culpepper was lost without Moss.

Was Culpepper better the year Moss led the team in receiving yards or the year Nate Burleson led the team in receiving yards?

 

[Phlash]

Every place Moss has played, except Oakland, all the QB's throwing to him had career years.

Actually, Daunte Culpepper had a career year when Moss got hurt. His numbers were better in every respect (yards, TDs, turnovers) when Moss was off the field than they were when Moss was on.

This is a fact. I don't see how people keep forgetting it...Although, it must be said, the other starting QBs he played with (Randall Cunningham, Jeff George) had incredible years much above their normal output, while even backups like Todd Bouman and Gus Frerotte put up fantastic numbers as backups.

 

[candy bar]

Rice led his team in receiving yards every year except:

When as a rookie, Roger Craig had more

In 1997, when Rice played two games

In 2000, when at 38, TO had more

In 2001, when at 39, Tim Brown had more

In 2004, when he split time with Oakland and Seattle

Moss led his team in receiving yards every year except:

In 2004, when Nate Burleson had more (although arguably a healthy Moss passes him)

In 2006, when Ronald Curry had more (although arguably a healthy Moss passes him)

In 1998, a 36 year old Rice coming off ACL surgery beat out a 25 year old Terrell Owens. The next year, he did it again. In 2002, a 40-year old Rice beat out Tim Brown (36) and Jerry Porter (24); in '03, a 41-year old Rice beat out Brown and Porter.

Randy Moss, in his prime, had less receiving yards than Nate Burleson and Ronald Curry in a three year span. Nate Burleson and Ron Curry.

 

[PantherPower]

Calvin>Moss>Rice

 

[Franchise Playa]

Rice led his team in receiving yards every year except:

When as a rookie, Roger Craig had more

In 1997, when Rice played two games

In 2000, when at 38, TO had more

In 2001, when at 39, Tim Brown had more

In 2004, when he split time with Oakland and Seattle

Moss led his team in receiving yards every year except:

In 2004, when Nate Burleson had more (although arguably a healthy Moss passes him)

In 2006, when Ronald Curry had more (although arguably a healthy Moss passes him)

In 1998, a 36 year old Rice coming off ACL surgery beat out a 25 year old Terrell Owens. The next year, he did it again. In 2002, a 40-year old Rice beat out Tim Brown (36) and Jerry Porter (24); in '03, a 41-year old Rice beat out Brown and Porter.

Randy Moss, in his prime, had less receiving yards than Nate Burleson and Ronald Curry in a three year span. Nate Burleson and Ron Curry.

Is there some sort of point to this? All this means is Moss is a deep threat, and isnt a possesion receiver. Of course he is not going to lead his team in yards. He did not play in the west coast offense and is not a west coast receiver. These comparisons seem silly because they have 2 different styles of play.Moss goes deep most if not all the time....Rice catches underneath most if not all the time. Im not sure what those stats are supposed to prove other than Moss makes his living as a deep threat?

 

[candy bar]

Rice led his team in receiving yards every year except:

When as a rookie, Roger Craig had more

In 1997, when Rice played two games

In 2000, when at 38, TO had more

In 2001, when at 39, Tim Brown had more

In 2004, when he split time with Oakland and Seattle

Moss led his team in receiving yards every year except:

In 2004, when Nate Burleson had more (although arguably a healthy Moss passes him)

In 2006, when Ronald Curry had more (although arguably a healthy Moss passes him)

In 1998, a 36 year old Rice coming off ACL surgery beat out a 25 year old Terrell Owens. The next year, he did it again. In 2002, a 40-year old Rice beat out Tim Brown (36) and Jerry Porter (24); in '03, a 41-year old Rice beat out Brown and Porter.

Randy Moss, in his prime, had less receiving yards than Nate Burleson and Ronald Curry in a three year span. Nate Burleson and Ron Curry.

Is there some sort of point to this? All this means is Moss is a deep threat, and isnt a possesion receiver. Of course he is not going to lead his team in yards. He did not play in the west coast offense and is not a west coast receiver. These comparisons seem silly because they have 2 different styles of play.Moss goes deep most if not all the time....Rice catches underneath most if not all the time. Im not sure what those stats are supposed to prove other than Moss makes his living as a deep threat?

Good deep threats don't end up with less receiving yards than good possession receivers. Being a deep threat isn't a disadvantage to leading your team in receiving yards. Not playing well, however, is. And LOL@Rice catching underneath stuff most if not all the time. You must not have watched much of Rice before he got old. Rice averaged over 20 yards per catch one season, something Moss never has and never will done. Rice in his prime was the most explosive player in the league.

 

[HoTnickZ]

Rice is right.

What, he isn't allowed to be right, if it interferes with you all wanting him to be sappy and nice?

I'm tired of this in pro sports. It's nauseating.

 

[Franchise Playa]

Rice led his team in receiving yards every year except:

When as a rookie, Roger Craig had more

In 1997, when Rice played two games

In 2000, when at 38, TO had more

In 2001, when at 39, Tim Brown had more

In 2004, when he split time with Oakland and Seattle

Moss led his team in receiving yards every year except:

In 2004, when Nate Burleson had more (although arguably a healthy Moss passes him)

In 2006, when Ronald Curry had more (although arguably a healthy Moss passes him)

In 1998, a 36 year old Rice coming off ACL surgery beat out a 25 year old Terrell Owens. The next year, he did it again. In 2002, a 40-year old Rice beat out Tim Brown (36) and Jerry Porter (24); in '03, a 41-year old Rice beat out Brown and Porter.

Randy Moss, in his prime, had less receiving yards than Nate Burleson and Ronald Curry in a three year span. Nate Burleson and Ron Curry.

Is there some sort of point to this? All this means is Moss is a deep threat, and isnt a possesion receiver. Of course he is not going to lead his team in yards. He did not play in the west coast offense and is not a west coast receiver. These comparisons seem silly because they have 2 different styles of play.Moss goes deep most if not all the time....Rice catches underneath most if not all the time. Im not sure what those stats are supposed to prove other than Moss makes his living as a deep threat?

Good deep threats don't end up with less receiving yards than good possession receivers. Being a deep threat isn't a disadvantage to leading your team in receiving yards. Not playing well, however, is. And LOL@Rice catching underneath stuff most if not all the time. You must not have watched much of Rice before he got old. Rice averaged over 20 yards per catch one season, something Moss never has and never will done. Rice in his prime was the most explosive player in the league.

Lets not factor in Chris Carter, rotating QB's, Randy Ratio, System and things like that...Moss and Rice were different players playing the same postion...Not sure what is so hard to grasp about that. Why would they produce the same?And last I remember in the west coast offense they use the short pass primarily. Much like TO Rice was great at getting YAC yards. He was not a guy I would say runs a straight route up the field and you throw it up for grabs to him (not saying he didn't but that it was not his bread and butter like Moss).

And I don't really understand why your getting into the "Rice is better than Moss" mode when the thread is about him breaking Rice's record and what Jerry thinks of it.

No one yet has said Moss is better than Rice in this thread....Yet people are throwing up stats and arguing tooth an nail as if it was written.

 

[nashua55]

And I don't really understand why your getting into the "Rice is better than Moss" mode when the thread is about him breaking Rice's record and what Jerry thinks of it. No one yet has said Moss is better than Rice in this thread....Yet people are throwing up stats and arguing tooth an nail as if it was written.

Only thing that I could surmise is that the hard core Jerry Rice fans feel threatened by the greatness of Randy Moss. Jerry Rice and Randy Moss were and are great players, does it really matter who was the greatest of all time. Everybody has there own opinions and have there favorite players. Just like Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter, to me I am a bigger fan of D. Jeter, but everyone knows he isnt going to go down as the greatest of all time like Alex might.But to me that doesnt matter. I am sure if Brady wins his 4th superbowl this year, the Joe Montana fans feathers will be ruffled when people start saying Brady is the greatest QB of all time.

 

[Master of Past and Present]

Was Rice not born with his heart, will and ethics? Was Moss not born with his?

I would say no. I know my work ethic is largly based off my parents and I highly doubt it would be the same if I grew up with the Rice fan who was my best friend. Most the people I grew up with got theirs from their home environments. The hardest working kids had parents who were hard workers and stressed it. Ones who sluffed off had parents that didn't care as much or stress it as much. My best friend scored the highest with another kid in the class for ACT. My best friend barely graduated with the class and the other kid was in the top 5 or so (parents expected more). If my best friend was born into my family with natural ability like that then there would have been no way he barely finishes high school on time. A C was an F in my house, his house was fine (not happy but not a huge deal made of it) with anything as long as you graduated. His dad weas into sports though and this kid practiced all the time and he had an incrediable ethic for sports. Do you really believe he was born with the abilty to have a good sports work ethic and a bad school one?

I would completely disagree with saying they were born with them.

It sounds like you both decided to put your energy into different areas; your friend, sports; you, school.I know Randy Moss wasn't born with Jerry Rice's work ethic, heart or will. He was born with Randy Moss' work ethic, heart and will. Perhaps in Moss grew up in Rice's home, his work ethic, heart and will would have more closely resembled Rice's. But Moss grew up in Moss' home.

And I still lettered more in the sports we went out for despite his focus in a singular area. So you admit that growing up affects your heart, will, ethic? Sounds like he wasn't born with the one he has today then doesn't it if you admit it could be different somewhere else. How is either born with their adult ethic, heart, will if it gets affected by their environment growing up?

I guess this is where we agree to disagree because I don't see a way you will concede anything to Randy Moss at this point.

We're all born with some potential for work ethic, heart, will, drive, whatever. Certainly your environment affects what percentage of it you actually reach. You've got absolutely no idea whether or not Moss reached his absolute potential in terms of work ethic (since, ya know, he's currently having possibly the greatest WR season of all time), and his capacity is just a lot smaller than Jerry Rice's. There's a reason that Rice's work ethic is legendary -- almost no one has the ability to match it. Rice was obviously born with something special, as is any all time great.

Think what you want guy. I know plenty of people who work at THEIR craft as much as Rice did his. One just happens to be a lawyer, some a teacher, one selling hand-stitched craft sweatshirts, etc. From what I've heard of Peyton Manning, I'd say he has it as much as well, he just spends it in the firm room and not working out. Nearly every NFL coach is said to work obscene long hour days to do their jobs. Jerry has plenty of peers in work ethic, its just not everyone does it by working out. Cris Carter was also known to be a work out machine in the offseason and Moss joined him for his during some offseasons. If Moss played with Rice and Rice asked him to work out with him, I wouldn't have been surprised to see Moss go there and do everything Jerry did. But go ahead and think Jerry is unmatched and he was born with some super work out ethic. The guy sat up in his crib, climbed it, got down, and ran stairs while his parents thought he was sleeping.

 

[nashua55]

Was Rice not born with his heart, will and ethics? Was Moss not born with his?

I would say no. I know my work ethic is largly based off my parents and I highly doubt it would be the same if I grew up with the Rice fan who was my best friend. Most the people I grew up with got theirs from their home environments. The hardest working kids had parents who were hard workers and stressed it. Ones who sluffed off had parents that didn't care as much or stress it as much. My best friend scored the highest with another kid in the class for ACT. My best friend barely graduated with the class and the other kid was in the top 5 or so (parents expected more). If my best friend was born into my family with natural ability like that then there would have been no way he barely finishes high school on time. A C was an F in my house, his house was fine (not happy but not a huge deal made of it) with anything as long as you graduated. His dad weas into sports though and this kid practiced all the time and he had an incrediable ethic for sports. Do you really believe he was born with the abilty to have a good sports work ethic and a bad school one?

I would completely disagree with saying they were born with them.

It sounds like you both decided to put your energy into different areas; your friend, sports; you, school.I know Randy Moss wasn't born with Jerry Rice's work ethic, heart or will. He was born with Randy Moss' work ethic, heart and will. Perhaps in Moss grew up in Rice's home, his work ethic, heart and will would have more closely resembled Rice's. But Moss grew up in Moss' home.

And I still lettered more in the sports we went out for despite his focus in a singular area. So you admit that growing up affects your heart, will, ethic? Sounds like he wasn't born with the one he has today then doesn't it if you admit it could be different somewhere else. How is either born with their adult ethic, heart, will if it gets affected by their environment growing up?

I guess this is where we agree to disagree because I don't see a way you will concede anything to Randy Moss at this point.

:( We're all born with some potential for work ethic, heart, will, drive, whatever. Certainly your environment affects what percentage of it you actually reach. You've got absolutely no idea whether or not Moss reached his absolute potential in terms of work ethic (since, ya know, he's currently having possibly the greatest WR season of all time), and his capacity is just a lot smaller than Jerry Rice's. There's a reason that Rice's work ethic is legendary -- almost no one has the ability to match it. Rice was obviously born with something special, as is any all time great.

Think what you want guy. I know plenty of people who work at THEIR craft as much as Rice did his. One just happens to be a lawyer, some a teacher, one selling hand-stitched craft sweatshirts, etc. From what I've heard of Peyton Manning, I'd say he has it as much as well, he just spends it in the firm room and not working out. Nearly every NFL coach is said to work obscene long hour days to do their jobs. Jerry has plenty of peers in work ethic, its just not everyone does it by working out. Cris Carter was also known to be a work out machine in the offseason and Moss joined him for his during some offseasons. If Moss played with Rice and Rice asked him to work out with him, I wouldn't have been surprised to see Moss go there and do everything Jerry did. But go ahead and think Jerry is unmatched and he was born with some super work out ethic. The guy sat up in his crib, climbed it, got down, and ran stairs while his parents thought he was sleeping.

This work ethic crap puzzles me. You know if Randy Moss caught 40 TD's in one year there would still be people saying he takes plays off. Only thing I can think of, Randy Moss is a prisoner of his own physically gifted talents . Because Randy Moss is so gifted as a WR, I don't think he can ever live up to the potential people believe he has. No matter what Moss accomplishes it will never be good enough for some people. I just marvel at talents like him, and his predessors like Rice, Barry Sanders, and in other sports like Mario Lemiuex, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson ect...