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Ricky's positive test not for Ganja (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Gatorman
- Start date
Donnybrook
Footballguy
If this turns out to be some sort false positve test and the league has banned Ricky for no reason, I hope Ricky turns around and sues the NFL for damages.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I highly doubt it's a false positive. Seems apparent that one of his holistic drugs contains something on the banned list. I honestly feel bad for the guy and hope he does get a fair hearing. If it's some mystery drug that doesn't belong with other controlled substances, I don't feel he should be banned like he failed a MJ test. Of course, I also didn't think Dale Carter should get a third strike for drinking a beer. I do think Ricky needs his head examined for taking anything that hasn't been ok'd in triplicate.
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Traders2001
Footballguy
If this turns out to be some sort false positve test and the league has banned Ricky for no reason, I hope Ricky turns around and sues the NFL for damages.
[.quote=saintfool,Feb 22 2006, 10:46 AM]
Does anyone think it might have something to do with the anti-anxiety medication he was taking? I don't know if he was still taking any but at one time he was. Certainly, if he changed his meds and didn't alert the testers then it might come up up.
Cmon guys , dont try to protect this imbecile.
I hope he gets banned for life . He is a disgrace for the NFL.
Same thing for Terrell Owens but unfortunately the NFL has no balls.
[.quote=saintfool,Feb 22 2006, 10:46 AM]
Does anyone think it might have something to do with the anti-anxiety medication he was taking? I don't know if he was still taking any but at one time he was. Certainly, if he changed his meds and didn't alert the testers then it might come up up.
Cmon guys , dont try to protect this imbecile.
I hope he gets banned for life . He is a disgrace for the NFL.
Same thing for Terrell Owens but unfortunately the NFL has no balls.
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saintfool
Dead sexy
Cmon guys , dont try to protect this imbecile.
I hope he gets banned for life . He is a disgrace for the NFL.
Same thing for Terrell Owens but unfortunately the NFL has no balls.
I'm a Ricky Williams fan. I have tremendous respect for him. My point was that, according to reports, he wasn't tagged for marijuana this time. So what would turn up in his test then? I was merely speculating - no different than anyone else. He used anti-anxiety meds at one time, after he left the Saints. That's my contribution to the speculation.
I'm sorry I don't share your opinion about RW. I don't see how he's a disgrace for the NFL either. Onterrio was a disgrace. Rae Carruth was a disgrace. Bam Morris was a disgrace. Plenty of other incidents grade higher in my book. This is just silly.
Highly unlikely. A drug test normally has corresponding paperwork that ask questions along the lines of....
Are you taking any prescribed medications? If so, what and list doctor's name and contact information? When was your last dose?
Have you had any over the counter meds today, such as cough medicine, that we should be made aware of prior to the test?
He's a smart enough guy that, if he were taking an anti-depressant, he would have checked the appropriate field and made the proper notation.
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Donnybrook
Footballguy
Dolphins | Williams says test can't be accurate
Thu, 23 Feb 2006 06:26:07 -0800
Harvey Fialkov, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports despite unconfirmed reports that he tested positive on another drug test, Miami Dolphins RB Ricky Williams has told his agent that it couldn't be accurate. "First of all, he vehemently denies he used drugs," agent Leigh Steinberg said during a radio interview on ESPN-1400 (WFLL-AM) Wednesday, Feb. 22. "He's worked too hard to get back in a position where he was at one with his teammates." Steinberg wouldn't go into specifics about his reported appeal of the failed test, but he was confident that Williams would be cleared. If not, Williams, a three-time offender of the league's substance-abuse policy, faces a minimum one-year suspension.
Thu, 23 Feb 2006 06:26:07 -0800
Harvey Fialkov, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports despite unconfirmed reports that he tested positive on another drug test, Miami Dolphins RB Ricky Williams has told his agent that it couldn't be accurate. "First of all, he vehemently denies he used drugs," agent Leigh Steinberg said during a radio interview on ESPN-1400 (WFLL-AM) Wednesday, Feb. 22. "He's worked too hard to get back in a position where he was at one with his teammates." Steinberg wouldn't go into specifics about his reported appeal of the failed test, but he was confident that Williams would be cleared. If not, Williams, a three-time offender of the league's substance-abuse policy, faces a minimum one-year suspension.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
No kidding!!!What else is going to say? You think he's going to hold a press conference and say, "My client is a hop head and he's done for the season. I'm done with him for a career because this guy is a complete moron that would rather smoke the wacky weed than get paid millions of dollars to play a game."
BigJim®
Footballguy
This is exactly what I couldn't understand about the report. I doubt the policy bans "herbs" or else guys who ate Oregano would become banned. I would think it specifies exactly what herbs are banned and is justified in selecting them. If Ricky tested for one, I'd expect it to be a failed test. These guys came up with the exact opposite conclusion.
This is exactly what I couldn't understand about the report. I doubt the policy bans "herbs" or else guys who ate Oregano would become banned. I would think it specifies exactly what herbs are banned and is justified in selecting them. If Ricky tested for one, I'd expect it to be a failed test. These guys came up with the exact opposite conclusion.
When will we find out what happens to Ricky regarding his appeal. April? Obviously if he's suspended for the year this destroys his trade value, but do you think his career is over? If not, what is his outlook for next year and beyond. He'll be 30, but he hasn't taken too much of a beating over the last few years.
When will we find out what happens to Ricky regarding his appeal. April? Obviously if he's suspended for the year this destroys his trade value, but do you think his career is over? If not, what is his outlook for next year and beyond. He'll be 30, but he hasn't taken too much of a beating over the last few years.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
Doesn't this just scream 'masking agent' to you guys?
BigJim®
Footballguy
Yes, which further confuses me about the PFW report; unless they are just allowing themselves to be used as sock puppets for Ricky's people. If an herb other than marijuana is banned, my guess would be either it is another controlled herb, or alternatively it is a widely known masking agent. They would not ban a specific herb without justification.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
no, it doesn't. Evidently Ricky was taking some herbs or whatever as part of his holistic Yoga training (of which they forbid poisons in the body like Ganja). Anyhow, Evidently one of these things caused a flase positive to occur in the test and williams would most likely have won on appeal. The guy in Denver brought this to light, breaking the confidentiality agreement of the test and now putting the NFL in a Awkward position. If they say it was a false positive, Steinberg can sue the league and denver for releasing the report when it was supposed to be confidential, or the league can suspend williams where he would have gotten off before, and then get sued. No matter what the outcome, Williams and his agent have lost money because of this and a False positive is just that, FALSE, so it should not be detrimental to the player. In this case it is.
Basically the GM in Denver who leaked the story should be fired and Denver should lose a pick. Whether that pick goes to Miami is up for debate because one of their "trading chips" was tarnished because of this incident. In any case, RW has really turned himself around from the drug stuff and much like guys like Cris Carter and the like, deserves his second chance.
In the end, I am happy because I wanted Ricky to stay with the fins. Him and Brown in that backfield are the best chance Miami has for going far next year.
Basically the GM in Denver who leaked the story should be fired and Denver should lose a pick. Whether that pick goes to Miami is up for debate because one of their "trading chips" was tarnished because of this incident. In any case, RW has really turned himself around from the drug stuff and much like guys like Cris Carter and the like, deserves his second chance.
In the end, I am happy because I wanted Ricky to stay with the fins. Him and Brown in that backfield are the best chance Miami has for going far next year.
Sinrman
Footballguy
Well, seeing as to how if I were to fail ONE drug test, I'd be fired from my job, and not able to get a reference. So I'm not feeling much sympathy for Mr. Williams. He's been given chance, after chance, after chance, and blown them all. Not to mention quit on his teammates, who eventually welcomed him back. And he repays them with this?
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
Several Natural herbs can mask the use of drugs because they "cleanse the body". Not everyone who takes them, takes them to mask drugs. People who are into natural health use them for the actual intended purpose of cleansing the body. Ricky is obviously big time into natural health and body purification. That's why he's spending all his time in NoCal and India. If the NFL banned such an herb simply because of its masking ability, I imagine Ricky could win the appeal. As it is neither illegal nor something that would give Ricky an athletic advantage.
BigJim®
Footballguy
You don't by chance have a link for this X-Files episode you just wrote, do you? The list of banned substances is very specific. Please go here for specific banned substances. I've read nowhere else that this is a false positive situation. Even PFW admits Ricky tested positive for an "herb" which easily could be a GNC sold 'golden seal' type herb product, or of it's ilk. The NFL is not going to make certain herb products (which happen to mask) fair game to guys like Ricky. So people in india take this to herb/mask to clense their body? Tough break. Pick a clensing agent which doesn't also serve as a masking agent.
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
Its impossible to pick an herb that cleanses the body without masking drug use because cleansing the body means cleaning out all harmful substances and all drugs are harmful substances.
I personally doubt that this is even why Ricky failed the test or that the NFL would ban an herb simply because it could help mask drug use. You would have to be talking about something powerful enough to hide heavy drug use overnight which isnt so simple as taking an herb. However if it is the reason, then yes I think Ricky could win the case. Contract issues come down to intent. The intent of the testing is to prevent use of illegal drugs and physical enhancers that improve a players athletic ability. The intent is not to stop players from protecting their immune system. You are talking about something that companies executives should be supporting. You are talking about something that is good for anybody. Something that cuts down sick days and increases morale. Something that is perfectly legal, perfectly healthy, and has religious, ethnic, and expert followings. Something that is increasing its popularity here in America. Here, the intent of the contract isnt being violated.
More likely, either it was a drug, a physical enhancer, or something used in the process of makeing either a drug or enhancer. Remember he only failed one test. Which means he either then passed the next one or immediately headed off to India. Maybe formula enhancer XYZ5000 is made using some kind of natural substance also used in yoga formula ABC300. I mentioned before that the past doesnt favor Williams in such a case. NFL players dont currently win grievances because they take an over the counter performance enhancer which contains a banned performance enhanceing material. That's something that is expected to be addressed in the next contract. The current contract and NFL stance means Ricky would likely be suspended in such a scenario. The intent of the contract is violated because the substance is a performance enhancer.
I think the only case the NFL would have to enforce not using herbs that could mask drugs would be that the player isnt cooperating with the testing program. Simuliar to a player who misses a test. If Ricky is innocent of intent, then it certainly seems like he was cooperating with the program. In which case he'd have a ligitimate grievance.
I personally doubt that this is even why Ricky failed the test or that the NFL would ban an herb simply because it could help mask drug use. You would have to be talking about something powerful enough to hide heavy drug use overnight which isnt so simple as taking an herb. However if it is the reason, then yes I think Ricky could win the case. Contract issues come down to intent. The intent of the testing is to prevent use of illegal drugs and physical enhancers that improve a players athletic ability. The intent is not to stop players from protecting their immune system. You are talking about something that companies executives should be supporting. You are talking about something that is good for anybody. Something that cuts down sick days and increases morale. Something that is perfectly legal, perfectly healthy, and has religious, ethnic, and expert followings. Something that is increasing its popularity here in America. Here, the intent of the contract isnt being violated.
More likely, either it was a drug, a physical enhancer, or something used in the process of makeing either a drug or enhancer. Remember he only failed one test. Which means he either then passed the next one or immediately headed off to India. Maybe formula enhancer XYZ5000 is made using some kind of natural substance also used in yoga formula ABC300. I mentioned before that the past doesnt favor Williams in such a case. NFL players dont currently win grievances because they take an over the counter performance enhancer which contains a banned performance enhanceing material. That's something that is expected to be addressed in the next contract. The current contract and NFL stance means Ricky would likely be suspended in such a scenario. The intent of the contract is violated because the substance is a performance enhancer.
I think the only case the NFL would have to enforce not using herbs that could mask drugs would be that the player isnt cooperating with the testing program. Simuliar to a player who misses a test. If Ricky is innocent of intent, then it certainly seems like he was cooperating with the program. In which case he'd have a ligitimate grievance.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Reasonable minds will have to disagree but I couldn't disagree more. Intent should have zero value when a guy is found to be taking a banned substance. Intent is presumed for non-controlled substances listed on the banned list; presumption being that he's taking it to fool tests. That's why it's banned. I mean, "cooperating with the testing program"? You realize he's already not cooperated with the program 3 times, and showed up on 60 minutes saying he didn't agree with the NFL drug testing program. I like Ricky and he was a good story last season, but he's not entitled to a little flexibility based on intent. Either he paid close attention to what he's taking or not. I really only see him getting out of this with an appeal based on scientific proof his supplements don't contain a banned substance.
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
All contracts are based on intent. When a contract violation is disputed in court, the intent of the contract and reason is what determines the outcome. Intent has the most value in a legal matter. Intent can differentiate between a death sentence or community service with parole. We are talking about a legal issue and intent is everything.If his supplements dont contain an illegal natural unenhancing legal substance, then Ricky has little to appeal with. That would mean he took an illegal substance knowingly.
As far as I know, Ricky fully admitted to cheating the system and refusing to cooperate when he retired. As far as I know, Ricky has fully cooperated hundreds of times by taking the tests. Like I said, it was one failed test amoung many negative tests. Like I said, I find it extremely hard to believe that an herbal remedy used in a healthy way would cause one and only one failed test. Like I said, I dont believe this is what happened. However like I said, if its the truth, then he should win his appeal. I never said I believed it was the truth.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Does this banned list even exist? I seriously doubt the league gave Ricky a list all substances it is testing for. It would be like giving him an instruction manual on how to defeat the test. So I am guessing Ricky had no idea that this substance could also be used as cleaning/masking agent and they would be testing for it.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Not sure where you are going with this, but...If someone turns their life around and then gets busted for an innocent mistake, you are ready to throw him under the bus again because of what he USED to do? By all accounts ricky was a model player last year, and has turned his life around. We are not talking Michael Irvin here, more like Cris Carter. However, the problem here is really that there is always an appeal process in this case and confidentiality as well. If ricky wins on appeal does that mean you were wrong? Are you going to give him the money he is owed? False positives happen all the time in testing, whether it be blood tests, urine tests, or psychological ones. That is why they retest.I am no RW fan for what he did to the dolphins before, but I watched him this past year, and while he is still aloof, he gets it now. I disagree with the NFL drug policy as well, and with the idea that Marijuana should be illegal in any case. However, that is not what we are discussing.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
Only a player's first violation of the NFL Substance abuse policy can be considered innocent. After which, one would expect the player to say, "whoa, I need to take this more seriously." Once a player gets to their 3rd NFL substance abuse violation, there is no way we can consider the 4th violation innocent. We can consider it ignorant or lazy but in no way innocent.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I am no catholic, but a person can be saved at any point. Cris Carter was a much bigger offender than RW, and he'll be in the hall of fame. The guy took a year off of football, restarted random testing EARLIER than he needed to to prove he was clean, and has stood up for his actions.
BigJim®
Footballguy
With all due respect, you are talking out your behind. You are comparing a positive drug test to a criminal offense in which state of mind, or mens rea, is actually an element of the crime (such as premeditation being an element of 1st degree vs. heat of the moment being manslaughter). That intent is an element of certain criminal offenses has nothing to do with "contracts" and it certainly has nothing to do with actual violation of an agreed upon drug testing program. If he took a banned substance, his intent in doing so will be presumed. Policy and Program for Substance Abuse
General Policy
"The primary purpose of this Policy is to assist players who misuse substances of abuse, but players who do not comply with the requirements of the Policy will be subject to discipline. An important principle of this Policy is that a player will be held responsible for whatever goes into his body."
Section E(3)(b)(i):
"Discipline for Failure to Comply in Stage Three: A player who fails to cooperate with testing, treatment, evaluation or other requirements imposed on him by this Policy or fails to comply with his Treatment Plan, both as determined by the Medical Director, or who has a Positive Test, will be banished from the NFL for a minimum period of one calendar year."
[Note, that while a player may trigger punishment for 'failure to cooperate' which is a subjective determination of the director, a drug test failure itself is not a "subjective" failure, it is an unconditonal violation in itself due to the word "or"]
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'm not "going anywhere with this" other than stating what a drug testing violation means under a drug testing policy. How am I throwing him under the bus? It seems to me the NFL drug Testing Program would be what's drawing assumptions, ignoring individual nuances, and stating the ramifications for transgressions to the policy. That has nothing to do with me. Had Cris Carter or Michael Irvin tested positive for banned substance while turning their lives around, they too would have been in violation of the drug policy.
did he merely miss a test? He's in India on a hippie rebirth, or sorts. Did he just miss a test? That reconciles Steinbergs statements, and qualifies as a failed test, and the reports that it wasn't ganja. It doesn't reconcile the false positive reports, or masking agents.
RW knows the score, and he knows exactly what is tested for. Somebody said that the NFL wouldn't give a list of what they test for, because then guys would pass. That's what the league wants. They don't want you to fail. They want you to comply. Keep these items out of the blood, and you will not fail a drug test.
Ricky has himself in a predicament, by his own doing and nobody elses. I wish him the best, because the NFL is at a loss if he doesn't play. But, reality is there are rules. He's repeatedly broken them. If it happened again, the suspension is a year. Call it what you want, but I call it letting down his teamates again.
If it stands, we've seen the last of Ricky in the league. I don't think he'd return after another year off, or more.
RW knows the score, and he knows exactly what is tested for. Somebody said that the NFL wouldn't give a list of what they test for, because then guys would pass. That's what the league wants. They don't want you to fail. They want you to comply. Keep these items out of the blood, and you will not fail a drug test.
Ricky has himself in a predicament, by his own doing and nobody elses. I wish him the best, because the NFL is at a loss if he doesn't play. But, reality is there are rules. He's repeatedly broken them. If it happened again, the suspension is a year. Call it what you want, but I call it letting down his teamates again.
If it stands, we've seen the last of Ricky in the league. I don't think he'd return after another year off, or more.
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
I am simply showing the importance of intent when it comes to contracts and legal matters. Claiming that intent shouldnt be relevant is ignorant. Whether comparing killing someone, tax fraud, business contracts, a union contract, or employee drug testing, its always relevant in legal matters. This is a legal matter. Drug testing is a part of any union contract and also involves many laws. I've had my own union business representative explain to me the importance of intent. Once again, I'm not stating that I think Ricky is innocent. I dont believe the NFL would ban an over the counter herb simply because it could potentially mask drug use.
I've stated myself that Ricky cant win by taking a banned otc product if it is a physical enhancer or drug. So I'm agreeing with you that the intent of taking the product is presumed. Nowhere am I saying that Ricky didnt intend to take whatever he tested for. What I am saying is that if the product doesnt enhance a person's athletic ability, isnt a narcotic, and has a perfectly legitimate use, then that product doesnt violate the intent of the drug testing program. Like I said, I fail to see how a yoga drink product could cause one and only one positive test amoung many. That is what doesnt make sense.
BigJim®
Footballguy
If you aren't paying attention to the specific provisions from the actual drug policy that I quoted, you are the one who is being ignorant. I'm not ignorant. I'm informed because I read the policy, what triggers a failure, and how a player may appeal a determination. As cited, there are 2 ways of failing at stage 3: (1) Being uncooperative in the program in the opinion of the Director; (2) actually Testing Positive. If Ricky failed because the Director made the subjective determination that he was being uncooperative, then his appeal grounds would be saying he was in fact being cooperative, which in theory would get into a lot of gray area including what his reasons for being uncoorperative were and that it was his intent to be cooperative, etc. If he fails because he tested positive for a banned substance, which includes masking agents, his appeals ground is limited to proving he didn't test positive, and there are no other grounds for appealing that decision because it is not a subjective determination, it is a factual determination. He is responsible for what he has in his system, as I cited from the opening preamble of the policy. It doesn't say "It's critical to understand a player is responsible for what he put in his body except for when he wasn't trying to violate the policy."
Whatever additional legal concepts you believe carry over to the application of this policy don't matter much if at all. They can make whatever argument he wants on appeal but ultimately it will be his responsibility to prove the substance he took was not on the banned list. I don't know how to be more specific than that. The policy says what it says.
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
Have you read anything that I have written? Once again, nowhere I have stated that a player is not responsible for what he puts in his body. Once again, I agree that if a player takes an over the counter supplement that tests positive because it contains a physical enhancing substance or drug, that player wont win an appeal.What I am saying is that the intent of the NFL drug policy is to ban certain performance enhancing products and drugs. Whoever came up with the idea that he tested positive for an herb that has the potential to mask drug use is what I'm arguing. I didnt come up with that. Once again, I dont believe that is the case. I myself recently had to retake a drug test because it was diluted. The result was negative-dilute. It wasnt a positive test. It could only be a positive test if it contained a drug. The leaked information coming from the press said that Ricky's test was a "drug" other than marijuana. Ricky has openly admitted to cheating the system many many times over by useing body cleansing products. Where is it that you are informed about the NFL's policy that a so-called masking herb would cause a positive test? By claiming that intent isnt important and believing that the NFL can ban whatever it wants to is your ignorance. No where in your quoted policy does it mention this. One final time, the intent of the NFL's drug policy is there to enforce drugs and steroid like products. Its intent is not to prevent a person from protecting their digestive or immune systems. That intent is relevant. That's why I dont believe this rumor. That's why I said if it was true, Ricky could win his appeal.
BigJim®
Footballguy
This is obviously going nowhere because you are not open to reading or understanding the policy. You prefer to assume quite a lot, and that's not helpful to assessing the realities of a positive test or its ramifications. The purpose of the drug policy is not as you suggest "to bar certain performance enhancing drugs." You are pulling that out of the air. Maybe because it suits your argument, or maybe you just want to believe that, I'm not sure. It's plainly wrong. If you took 1 minute to google and read the opening paragraphs of the policy for yourself, you'd know exactly what its stated purpose is:
Could it be more clear? That said, the purpose of the policy is a combination of physical health, league image, and performance. To that end, the NFL bans quite a lot of things. The NFL bans: (1) performance enhancing drugs which are harmful to the body, (2) controlled substances which are both illegal and harmful to the body (including alcohol if abuse is evident), and (3) those substances/drugs commonly used to mask a positive test of either. If you want to see a complete list of the substances banned by the NFL, go here. As you can see, they do include specific masking agents by name (chemical and brand). Intentionally, accidentally, or however, if one tests for any substance on that list it causes a positive test and the player is subject to penalty and intervention. It simply doesn't matter whether he took a masking agent trying to mask pot or reach the next level of Zen, it is a positive test if what he took is listed in the banned substances. It's his responsibility to know if his holistic substances/herbs are on the banned list. Players are *absolutely* aware that masking agents are listed and can readily seek advice from their physician if they want to make sure no banned substances are contained in their supplements/herbs/drugs. Certain drugs are even pre-certified by the NFLPA and carry a stamp of approval.Also, it makes no sense to point to your own employer's policy to support your assumptions of how flexible/reasonable the NFL drug testing policy should be. While you got a retest for diluted sample, which is a common employment practice, the NFL policy clearly states: "to provide a dilute specimen (A “dilute specimen” shall be defined as a urine specimen which has a specific gravity value less than 1.003 and a creatinine concentration of less than 20 mg/dL), will be deemed the equivalent of a Positive Test."
Please read the policy for yourself here. I've been called ignorant for the last time by someone who doesn't have the foggiest idea what the policy says.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I chalenge anyone to dig up a link of an attorney who publically says "Frankly, we just don't have a chance." Guess what happens to those attorneys? They get fired in favor of attorneys who blow sunshine up their client's rears.Again, I'm not saying Ricky can't win an appeal because none of us knows the facts. It's certainly possible he took some unlisted substance that mistakenly showed up on a test as being a banned substance. Who knows.
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
I called you ignorant for stating that the intent of the drug program isnt important. Intent is always important in any legal matter. Which this is.
None of your links contradict anything I have said. Period. In fact they support what I've said. Your list of banned masking agents looks like a list of drugs. I see no otc herbs there. I mentioned that banning an otc herb is unlikely because they have enthnical, religious, health expert ties. Your quote of the intent of the policy mentions only the use of drugs. I use the term physical enhancer instead of steriod because I know of some banned substances that arent classified as a steroid such as HGH. If it made it easier for you if I used the term steroid, I can. Treating a diluted negative test as a positive test can mean the same thing as treating a missed test as a positive test. It doesnt mean he had a positive test. The news report quoted it as a positive test.
I stated myself that the real scenario is that Ricky tested positive for a drug, a steroid, or a substance that is used in one or the other. I've stated myself that history tells us players dont win appeals by taking otc supplements containing these things. This could very well mean one of the same substances in a yoga drink is used to make a drug. That doesnt explain only one positive test though.
A yoga drink, otc herbal supplement, or something simuliar, is not like a drug. Alternative medicines dont have the potency of drugs. They usually work slower but with less side effects. They dont harm the body the way drugs do which means they dont violate the intent of the policy as you have stated it. Like I stated its not possible to cleanse the body without the potential of masking drug use because cleansing the body means removing all harmful substances and all drugs are harmful substances. Cleansing the body is best done with water. That doesnt mean the NFL can ban water. You seem not to care to differentiate an otc herb with an otc drug and that's why you and I wont see eye to eye. Like I said, I dont find it likely at all that Ricky tested positive for an herb one time and only one time while taking yoga drinks with his practice.
No I cant equivilate my drug testing policy with the NFLs. Except that they both have to comply with the law. The law attempts to protect people who are innocent. The law attempts to protect ethnic, religious, and personal rights. That's probably a part of the reason why your link of banned substances doesnt contain a bunch of otc herbs. Another reason is that the intent of the policy isnt to prevent a player from doing something healthy like cleansing the body. I stand by everything I have said.
None of your links contradict anything I have said. Period. In fact they support what I've said. Your list of banned masking agents looks like a list of drugs. I see no otc herbs there. I mentioned that banning an otc herb is unlikely because they have enthnical, religious, health expert ties. Your quote of the intent of the policy mentions only the use of drugs. I use the term physical enhancer instead of steriod because I know of some banned substances that arent classified as a steroid such as HGH. If it made it easier for you if I used the term steroid, I can. Treating a diluted negative test as a positive test can mean the same thing as treating a missed test as a positive test. It doesnt mean he had a positive test. The news report quoted it as a positive test.
I stated myself that the real scenario is that Ricky tested positive for a drug, a steroid, or a substance that is used in one or the other. I've stated myself that history tells us players dont win appeals by taking otc supplements containing these things. This could very well mean one of the same substances in a yoga drink is used to make a drug. That doesnt explain only one positive test though.
A yoga drink, otc herbal supplement, or something simuliar, is not like a drug. Alternative medicines dont have the potency of drugs. They usually work slower but with less side effects. They dont harm the body the way drugs do which means they dont violate the intent of the policy as you have stated it. Like I stated its not possible to cleanse the body without the potential of masking drug use because cleansing the body means removing all harmful substances and all drugs are harmful substances. Cleansing the body is best done with water. That doesnt mean the NFL can ban water. You seem not to care to differentiate an otc herb with an otc drug and that's why you and I wont see eye to eye. Like I said, I dont find it likely at all that Ricky tested positive for an herb one time and only one time while taking yoga drinks with his practice.
No I cant equivilate my drug testing policy with the NFLs. Except that they both have to comply with the law. The law attempts to protect people who are innocent. The law attempts to protect ethnic, religious, and personal rights. That's probably a part of the reason why your link of banned substances doesnt contain a bunch of otc herbs. Another reason is that the intent of the policy isnt to prevent a player from doing something healthy like cleansing the body. I stand by everything I have said.
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