Rivers vs. Kolb and Cutler (1 Viewer)

[thehornet]

Rivers has genrally been considered part of the "elite club" of passers for 2010 and in general. We all know what he is capable of based on past performance, but recently it looks like he is slipping severely. So much so, that 2 other passers, Cutler and Kolb are being suggested ahead of Rivers based on my FBG's cheatsheets and custom rankings. I am concerned about Rivers value, perplexed about the Kolb excitement and confused about the reemergence of Cutler over Rivers using the aformentioned tools.

Rivers has the past perf, a great tightend, but not much else. He needs some lesser guys to develop.

His current ADP is around 4.9

Kolb has only two career starts. However he plays in a superb offense fos skills and he has super weapons.

His current ADP is arround 6.09

Cutler took a step back last year but still threw 26 TD's. He gained Martz and his wideouts gained some ecperience.

His current ADP is around 7.02

My most recent Cheatsheet for FBG's is instructing me too take Cutler or Kolb before Rivers. However Rivers ADP is a round and halff higher. Also, my custom draft calculation with FBG's is also rating cutler and kolb higher despite the ADP.

Any thoughts?

 

[eoMMan]

No way would I take Cutler or Kolb before Rivers.

 

[ScottyDog]

No way would I take Cutler or Kolb before Rivers.

X2

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Take Rivers.

No way I would risk Kolb as my #1 this season. Cutler in leagues that penalize for Ints will be hard to draft as well

 

[jude]

face value, yeah rivers over the other two. Though I wouldn't be sjhocked to see EITHER finish higher than Rivers this year. Rivers is going to find life a little more difficult without Vincent Jackson. It seems like the Chargers are heading back to the run more than in the past two years.

 

[eoMMan]

Also, I think after Rivers, there's a big drop in QB. He's the last "good" QB I think you can grab. The QB's that I'm are talking about are Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Romo, and Matt Schaub. I'd like to have one of these 7 as my QB. Anyone else and I'm worrying a little and I'm getting into playing QB match-up every week.

 

[LittlePhatty]

My most recent Cheatsheet for FBG's is instructing me too take Cutler or Kolb before Rivers.

I noticed that on the VBD app too. With these latest projections Cutler jumped into the Top 50 value list, and that doesn't seem quite right to me.

 

[stbugs]

I think the biggest thing IMHO is taking Kolb that high. While Rivers may be better than Cutler, no doubt in my mind that Cutler will do well fantasy wise this year. Rivers without VJ and Cutler with Martz may be pretty even and Cutler may be ahead seeing as last year Cutler scored only 10% less than Rivers in my league last year and in 2008, Cutler was even closer to Rivers.

To be honest, I like Cutler a lot because he had such a negative "NFL" season last year that people are overlooking that he was #5 QB in 2008 and #11 (my league scoring) in 2009. The Bears haven't, IMHO, improved their running game, but I do think that in his second year there with Martz potentially improving the passing game, he could be really underrated.

No way I would want to risk my QB1 slot to Kolb. He could do well, but he has way more risk than guys like Rivers and Cutler who have proven that they are top 10 material already.

 

[the spanker]

Also, I think after Rivers, there's a big drop in QB. He's the last "good" QB I think you can grab. The QB's that I'm are talking about are Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Romo, and Matt Schaub. I'd like to have one of these 7 as my QB. Anyone else and I'm worrying a little and I'm getting into playing QB match-up every week.

See that's the mindset of many FFers out there. I think you can find value that will (at the end of the season) give you comparable stats.Guys I'm willing to wait on are Big Ben, Flacco, and Ryan. You can get these guys much later.

 

[Sweetness_34]

Anyone who drafts Rivers over Cutler will regret it. Rivers does have an easy schedule but if he has no LT and no VJax, how is he going to get his yards and TDs?

If you believe so strongly in Rivers, you should be drafting SD#1 WR in the 4th round....an who is that WR#1? Oh right...there isn't one.

 

[Bluefire]

Anyone who drafts Rivers over Cutler will regret it. Rivers does have an easy schedule but if he has no LT and no VJax, how is he going to get his yards and TDs? If you believe so strongly in Rivers, you should be drafting SD#1 WR in the 4th round....an who is that WR#1? Oh right...there isn't one.

San Diego's WR #1 is going in the 4th round, according to his ADP. His initials are AG.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

Anyone who drafts Rivers over Cutler will regret it. Rivers does have an easy schedule but if he has no LT and no VJax, how is he going to get his yards and TDs? If you believe so strongly in Rivers, you should be drafting SD#1 WR in the 4th round....an who is that WR#1? Oh right...there isn't one.

which bears wr are you drafting in round 4?

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

Take Rivers.No way I would risk Kolb as my #1 this season. Cutler in leagues that penalize for Ints will be hard to draft as well

So what do you do when you miss on the top 7 QBs?

call for a do over?If I have to draft Kolb then I would probably draft 2 more qb's in the 10th and 11th and hope that one of those is Big Ben. I liked the guy coming out of college, he has weapons but he could bust pretty easily imo.

 

[Lascelle]

I understand the hesitation about grabbing Kolb as a QB1 this year, but I've got Rodgers as a keeper in a 2-QB league and love the idea of 'Double K' as my QB2 if I can land him. Having Rodgers in the fold already makes the risk-reward factor very attractive.

 

[Tau837]

Anyone who drafts Rivers over Cutler will regret it. Rivers does have an easy schedule but if he has no LT and no VJax, how is he going to get his yards and TDs? If you believe so strongly in Rivers, you should be drafting SD#1 WR in the 4th round....an who is that WR#1? Oh right...there isn't one.

San Diego's WR #1 is going in the 4th round, according to his ADP. His initials are AG.

And LOL at Sweetness questioning how Rivers will get his yards and TDs without LT... LT had 154 receiving yards and 0 receiving TDs last season, but somehow Rivers had 4254 passing yards and 28 passing TDs.Malcom Floyd is better than any WR on the Bears, and the Bears do not have a TE as good as Gates, nor do they have a receiving RB as good as Sproles. But we should draft Cutler ahead of Rivers because Rivers lost Jackson and Tomlinson? It makes zero sense.

 

[death of the cool]

My 1st plan is of course to get 1 of the top 5 QB's (Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Romo)

If I miss out, my next plan is to draft Kolb and then turn right around and draft dependable backup (Manning, Palmer, Ryan)

You take the homerun swing (Kolb) but limit your bust potential by selecting a QB quickly again.

I did the same thing with Rodgers a few years back and it turned out great.

I am a Dallas fan, but went to college in Kolb's hometown. The kid is mentally tough and has a ton of weapons. If Andy Reid believes in him that goes a long way. I think he has a top 10 year for sure.

 

[cheatsheetwarroom]

I think you have to go with the proven player and that is Rivers. I'm still not convinced that Cutler will strive in Martz' offense and wouldn't be surprised if he continues to be an INT machine.

 

[Sopranos25]

Its Rivers. IMP Colb and Cutler are borderline 1 starters. They are middle round pics.

 

[Bolted]

Kolb did look good in his preseason game, but he also got luck on several throws that should have been picked. Also, Vick looked pretty good as well, and even worse then last year, I am nervous about losing plays to ole Ron Mexico.

 

[Sopranos25]

No way Kolb should be you #1

 

[LittlePhatty]

No way Kolb should be you #1

Even in small leagues somebody will probably have to roll with him as a QB1. He does have a lot of good options to throw to.

 

[death of the cool]

Its Rivers. IMP Colb and Cutler are borderline 1 starters. They are middle round pics.

I think the point is passing on Rivers in the 4th to grab talent, and then selecting Kolb or Cutler a few rounds later. It is not Rivers or Kolb at a certain pick.Now Kolb may very well be just a borderline starter, and that will be a decision that will either pay off big for some teams that draft him or leave them on the outside looking in.

 

[LawFitz]

Either guy could finish higher than Rivers, but I'd say neither is likely to. And more importantly, I think their ceilings are similar, but Rivers floor is much higher than the other two.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Either guy could finish higher than Rivers, but I'd say neither is likely to. And more importantly, I think their ceilings are similar, but Rivers floor is much higher than the other two.

I agree with this. Just wanted to add that with no proven WR #1, an elite QB like Rivers will spread the ball around even more. Combine that with the fact they will need to score points to stay in games since the defense has regressed, and somehow, someway a guy like Rivers is going to get his stats as he is going to have to rally his team in the 4th quarter. Don't make the mistake of overthinking this one. Talent levels aren't even comparable. Rivers is a good value play in the late 4th/early 5th, and I think is a lock for top ten production.

 

[Polar Dude]

If we consider any "poor" game by VJax to be one in which he did not catch at least 5 balls, did not gain at least 100 yards, and did not get in the end zone more than once, his sub-par games last year were in weeks 4 (4, 56, 0), 5 (4, 46, 1), 9 (1, 10, 0), 10, (4, 56, 0), 11 (2, 26, 0), 12 (2, 54, 0), and 15 (5, 70, 0). In those relatively unproductive weeks, Rivers averaged over 265 yards, 1.9 TDs with 0 INTs. Jackson was certainly drawing extra attention during those seven weeks, but Rivers' stats and Jackson's stats are not directly proportional. Keep in mind that Rivers had a couple of really good seasons before VJax broke out two years ago.

 

[Fantaholic]

I am going to go against the grain a bit here and say that the value play come draft day will be Kolb.

Cutler is gaining too much momentum as of late and that will continue as a result of the Martz hype. The greatest show on turf was a long time ago in fantasy years.

Rivers is great, but I'm not sure his supporting cast is beyond Gates. I'll take Kolb 2-3 rounds later. I get that Rodgers-type feeling about Kolb for some reason. Maybe not to that degree, but I think he will have good fantasy success with his supporting cast and pass minded coach.

 

[Pipes]

Rivers>>>Kolb>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cutler

I'm not buying the Cutler hype at all. He's an interception machine on a team with a bad offensive line and a below average receiving corp. I'll let somewhat else take the risk with him.

 

[Sweetness_34]

Anyone who drafts Rivers over Cutler will regret it. Rivers does have an easy schedule but if he has no LT and no VJax, how is he going to get his yards and TDs? If you believe so strongly in Rivers, you should be drafting SD#1 WR in the 4th round....an who is that WR#1? Oh right...there isn't one.

which bears wr are you drafting in round 4?

Go look at Martz's record. They will spread the ball around. Furrey and Shaun Mcdonald got around 800 yards each with Martz. Hester, Knox, Aroma, Olsen, Dez Clark, Forte, Chester Taylor can all catch the ball. Who does SD have? Sproles and Gates. If VJax was playing, sure, I love Rivers too. Otherwise....not so sure. Let's see what this year brings.

 

[Sweetness_34]

Anyone who drafts Rivers over Cutler will regret it. Rivers does have an easy schedule but if he has no LT and no VJax, how is he going to get his yards and TDs? If you believe so strongly in Rivers, you should be drafting SD#1 WR in the 4th round....an who is that WR#1? Oh right...there isn't one.

San Diego's WR #1 is going in the 4th round, according to his ADP. His initials are AG.

And LOL at Sweetness questioning how Rivers will get his yards and TDs without LT... LT had 154 receiving yards and 0 receiving TDs last season, but somehow Rivers had 4254 passing yards and 28 passing TDs.Malcom Floyd is better than any WR on the Bears, and the Bears do not have a TE as good as Gates, nor do they have a receiving RB as good as Sproles. But we should draft Cutler ahead of Rivers because Rivers lost Jackson and Tomlinson? It makes zero sense.

By LT, I meant your all pro Left Tackle who is not playing with VJax this year as of now.... thank your dummy GM who, by the way, has been to zero SBs despite playing in the 2nd worst division in all of football for the last 5 years.

 

[Tau837]

Anyone who drafts Rivers over Cutler will regret it. Rivers does have an easy schedule but if he has no LT and no VJax, how is he going to get his yards and TDs? If you believe so strongly in Rivers, you should be drafting SD#1 WR in the 4th round....an who is that WR#1? Oh right...there isn't one.

San Diego's WR #1 is going in the 4th round, according to his ADP. His initials are AG.

And LOL at Sweetness questioning how Rivers will get his yards and TDs without LT... LT had 154 receiving yards and 0 receiving TDs last season, but somehow Rivers had 4254 passing yards and 28 passing TDs.Malcom Floyd is better than any WR on the Bears, and the Bears do not have a TE as good as Gates, nor do they have a receiving RB as good as Sproles. But we should draft Cutler ahead of Rivers because Rivers lost Jackson and Tomlinson? It makes zero sense.

By LT, I meant your all pro Left Tackle who is not playing with VJax this year as of now.... thank your dummy GM who, by the way, has been to zero SBs despite playing in the 2nd worst division in all of football for the last 5 years.

McNeill has never been All Pro. He made the Pro Bowl in 2006 and 2007, but he actually has played rather poorly since his rookie season. Sure, it's clearly better to have him, but not having him won't be the negative impact many around here seem to think. Also, the Chargers have done just fine despite numerous injuries on their offensive line over the past few years. And, finally, he is unlikely to miss many, if any, games anyway.Basically, you were wrong.

 

[Tau837]

And LOL at a Bears fan taking shots at San Diego's GM.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I think the biggest thing IMHO is taking Kolb that high. While Rivers may be better than Cutler, no doubt in my mind that Cutler will do well fantasy wise this year. Rivers without VJ and Cutler with Martz may be pretty even and Cutler may be ahead seeing as last year Cutler scored only 10% less than Rivers in my league last year and in 2008, Cutler was even closer to Rivers.To be honest, I like Cutler a lot because he had such a negative "NFL" season last year that people are overlooking that he was #5 QB in 2008 and #11 (my league scoring) in 2009. The Bears haven't, IMHO, improved their running game, but I do think that in his second year there with Martz potentially improving the passing game, he could be really underrated.No way I would want to risk my QB1 slot to Kolb. He could do well, but he has way more risk than guys like Rivers and Cutler who have proven that they are top 10 material already.

Kolb looked awesome last year. Especially with all the good places that d will set him up, not to mention o solid TE and some good rbs to take the heat off.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Take Rivers.No way I would risk Kolb as my #1 this season. Cutler in leagues that penalize for Ints will be hard to draft as well

So what do you do when you miss on the top 7 QBs?

call for a do over?If I have to draft Kolb then I would probably draft 2 more qb's in the 10th and 11th and hope that one of those is Big Ben. I liked the guy coming out of college, he has weapons but he could bust pretty easily imo.

take 2 of henne stafford mcnabb and roethlisburger in rds 8-11

 

[rdstorm]

Anyone who drafts Rivers over Cutler will regret it. Rivers does have an easy schedule but if he has no LT and no VJax, how is he going to get his yards and TDs?

If you believe so strongly in Rivers, you should be drafting SD#1 WR in the 4th round....an who is that WR#1? Oh right...there isn't one.

San Diego's WR #1 is going in the 4th round, according to his ADP. His initials are AG.

And LOL at Sweetness questioning how Rivers will get his yards and TDs without LT... LT had 154 receiving yards and 0 receiving TDs last season, but somehow Rivers had 4254 passing yards and 28 passing TDs.

Malcom Floyd is better than any WR on the Bears, and the Bears do not have a TE as good as Gates, nor do they have a receiving RB as good as Sproles. But we should draft Cutler ahead of Rivers because Rivers lost Jackson and Tomlinson? It makes zero sense.

No, you should draft Cutler ahead of Rivers because he is now running the Martz offense, which has averaged adding 4 pts per week (http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfo...-can-do-for-you) to a QB's fantasy numbers. Rivers will take a small hit due to the loss of VJax and McNeil, not due to the loss of LT.*added link

 

[money.never.sleeps]

No way would I take Cutler or Kolb before Rivers.

touche.. not even close

 

[ceo3west]

I'd take Rivers if for no other reason than he might have the easiest schedule in the history of the NFL

 

[jude]

No way would I take Cutler or Kolb before Rivers.

touche.. not even close

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I think you guys are chasing stats. This might be the year Cutler figures it all out. It might also be the year Kolb takes his first step towards being a Rodgers typ of player. Likely, no. Possibly, sure. And Rivers cold possibly take a step back.

 

[moleculo]

I'm not sure how well cutler can throw from his back.

 

[Deuce'sWild]

I'd definitely take Rivers before Cutler or Kolb, however, the price you pay for Rivers may not be worth the RB or WR you could land and then get Kolb later.

Listen, Kolb doesn't have to be a super talent, he is in a pass first offense with superb weapons. Even his RB is geared towards catching the ball moreso than running it well. It's a similar situation as Cutler, but Philly has more weapons and Kolb will probably be protected better. I would say he is actually a lot safer than most think...not as safe as Rivers, but worth using as your Qb1. Grab Eli, Ryan or Big Ben one round later and you're fine. They are all three very consistent.

 

[Tau837]

Anyone who drafts Rivers over Cutler will regret it. Rivers does have an easy schedule but if he has no LT and no VJax, how is he going to get his yards and TDs? If you believe so strongly in Rivers, you should be drafting SD#1 WR in the 4th round....an who is that WR#1? Oh right...there isn't one.

San Diego's WR #1 is going in the 4th round, according to his ADP. His initials are AG.

And LOL at Sweetness questioning how Rivers will get his yards and TDs without LT... LT had 154 receiving yards and 0 receiving TDs last season, but somehow Rivers had 4254 passing yards and 28 passing TDs.Malcom Floyd is better than any WR on the Bears, and the Bears do not have a TE as good as Gates, nor do they have a receiving RB as good as Sproles. But we should draft Cutler ahead of Rivers because Rivers lost Jackson and Tomlinson? It makes zero sense.

By LT, I meant your all pro Left Tackle who is not playing with VJax this year as of now.... thank your dummy GM who, by the way, has been to zero SBs despite playing in the 2nd worst division in all of football for the last 5 years.

McNeill has never been All Pro. He made the Pro Bowl in 2006 and 2007, but he actually has played rather poorly since his rookie season. Sure, it's clearly better to have him, but not having him won't be the negative impact many around here seem to think. Also, the Chargers have done just fine despite numerous injuries on their offensive line over the past few years. And, finally, he is unlikely to miss many, if any, games anyway.Basically, you were wrong.