Henry Ford
Footballguy
Good point. You caught me making up statements by the police and DA and putting them in articles in newspapers and then falsifying decades of research into this subject. Well done.
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Robert Kraft (yes, THAT Robert Kraft) charged with soliciting prostitution (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter IvanKaramazov
- Start date
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Totally different point.(HULK) said:
I agree that charges are absolutely necessary to make claims about sex trafficking. And authorities saying such charges were imminent were worth relying upon. And the fact they have not brought them is totally relevant. However again it is a different argument than the one you made before.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Latest news(these are snippets, click link for full story)
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26315681/source-kraft-files-motion-suppress-evidence
====================
Attorneys for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft filed a motion Wednesday to suppress evidence -- notably the video evidence -- in his solicitation of prostitution case, according to a source.
The motion is an effort to make sure that the surveillance video, described as graphic and damning, isn't released if he doesn't reach a plea deal with prosecutors. It also is a warning shot to prosecutors that Kraft's legal team will try to go after the state's case by saying there was no probable cause to collect the evidence in the first place.
...
(regarding plea deal) A source close to Kraft said, "That's not going to happen," and said the 77-year-old would rather fight the charges in court than admit to a crime. Sources said that the two sides were continuing to negotiate and that Kraft had not rejected the deal outright.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26315681/source-kraft-files-motion-suppress-evidence
====================
Attorneys for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft filed a motion Wednesday to suppress evidence -- notably the video evidence -- in his solicitation of prostitution case, according to a source.
The motion is an effort to make sure that the surveillance video, described as graphic and damning, isn't released if he doesn't reach a plea deal with prosecutors. It also is a warning shot to prosecutors that Kraft's legal team will try to go after the state's case by saying there was no probable cause to collect the evidence in the first place.
...
(regarding plea deal) A source close to Kraft said, "That's not going to happen," and said the 77-year-old would rather fight the charges in court than admit to a crime. Sources said that the two sides were continuing to negotiate and that Kraft had not rejected the deal outright.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
From what I saw, part of the legal strategy in asking to suppress evidence is rooted in Florida wiretapping laws that require all parties on a recorded conversation to be made aware that they were being recording. If Kraft (and others) were not notified, then the legal argument would be that the recordings were obtained illegally and thus could not be used . . . and the case essentially would have little compelling evidence at that point. Similarly, I have heard arguments that the police stop of Kraft in his vehicle would fall under scrutiny if there were no probable cause to pull the car over . . . especially demanding a license from Kraft who wasn't driving.
It will be interesting to see what the NFL would do if the case / charge was dismissed entirely or if Kraft were cleared. It still would leave a black mark on the league and certainly did not make the shield look good in the process. That would open up another can of worms if the league still wanted to levy severe discipline / multi-game suspension on Kraft.
It will be interesting to see what the NFL would do if the case / charge was dismissed entirely or if Kraft were cleared. It still would leave a black mark on the league and certainly did not make the shield look good in the process. That would open up another can of worms if the league still wanted to levy severe discipline / multi-game suspension on Kraft.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Kraft finally released a statement
===================
"I am truly sorry," Kraft said in a statement. "I know I have hurt and disappointed my family, my close friends, my co-workers, our fans and many others who rightfully hold me to a higher standard."
Kraft said he had remained silent since the charges "in deference to the judicial process." He has pleaded not guilty.
"Throughout my life, I have always tried to do the right thing. The last thing I would ever want to do is disrespect another human being. I have extraordinary respect for women; my morals and my soul were shaped by the most wonderful woman, the love of my life, who I was blessed to have as my partner for 50 years," Kraft said in the statement.
"As I move forward, I hope to continue to use the platform with which I have been blessed to help others and to try to make a difference. I expect to be judged not by my words, but by my actions. And through those actions, I hope to regain your confidence and respect."
===================
"I am truly sorry," Kraft said in a statement. "I know I have hurt and disappointed my family, my close friends, my co-workers, our fans and many others who rightfully hold me to a higher standard."
Kraft said he had remained silent since the charges "in deference to the judicial process." He has pleaded not guilty.
"Throughout my life, I have always tried to do the right thing. The last thing I would ever want to do is disrespect another human being. I have extraordinary respect for women; my morals and my soul were shaped by the most wonderful woman, the love of my life, who I was blessed to have as my partner for 50 years," Kraft said in the statement.
"As I move forward, I hope to continue to use the platform with which I have been blessed to help others and to try to make a difference. I expect to be judged not by my words, but by my actions. And through those actions, I hope to regain your confidence and respect."
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Kraft's lawyer also laid out how they intend to fight it
=======================
Kraft's lawyer, William Burck, told ESPN: "There was no human trafficking and law enforcement knows it. The video and the traffic stop were illegal and law enforcement just doesn't want to admit it. The state attorney needs to step up and do the right thing and investigate how the evidence in this case was obtained."
=======================
Kraft's lawyer, William Burck, told ESPN: "There was no human trafficking and law enforcement knows it. The video and the traffic stop were illegal and law enforcement just doesn't want to admit it. The state attorney needs to step up and do the right thing and investigate how the evidence in this case was obtained."
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
If you look at the lawyers statement, they are not denying the act he committed, they are fighting how he was charged and how evidence was obtained. He clearly is not "innocent" as we use the word.
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RUSF18
Footballguy
Seems incredibly stupid. Everyone knows what you did, you acknowledge it was wrong, and have already committed to being better. Why drag it all out further when you can make that same acknowledgment to the court and be done with everything? Worried about landing your next job with that on your record?NewlyRetired said:
Ilov80s
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
1) he might not want to risk jail time, albeit minimal risk
2) if he gets convicted, even with a plea, the NFL might have stronger grounds to punish him. I bet this is the driving force behind fighting the charges while still basically admitting he did it.
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RUSF18
Footballguy
Thought he was already offered that being taken off the table if he agreed he would have been guilty at trial, or however it was phrased.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
he wouldn't go to jail... no of them are. I bet hes prepared to admit guilt and accept the NFL's punishment.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I agree that he wouldn’t go to jail but I thought perhaps paying a good lawyer to fight the case is the way wealthy people like him are able to escape prison in these circumstances. Maybe you are right and he will change his plea.
Phil Elliott
Footballguy
DA will drop the charges but he will not be "fully exonerated".
irish eyes
Footballguy
Sounds like typical patriot way. Do something wrong, get caught then scream I'm innocent and drag it out as long as possible. Scumbag organization.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I am sick of all of these rich people thinking they are above the law.! If I were on that jury I would be finding him guilty of all charges...NewlyRetired said:
...unless his legal team bribed me.
(HULK)
(Smash)
(HULK)
(Smash)
I completely agree. The PD there violated the Constitution in a few different ways, and claimed "sex trafficking" as the rationale for it.
I honestly find the whole thing fascinating. I am strongly for legalized or decriminalized sex work, I am strongly against sex trafficking, and strongly support constitutionally protected rights. This thing has 3 elements that will make for an interesting case study IMO.
(HULK)
(Smash)
I'm sure he's guilty of paying for a handy. But, should that even be illegal? Assuming everyone was a consenting adult.
Furthermore, should the Police Department be allowed to fake a bomb threat to install cameras in a private business to covertly film sex acts? And to stop cars not violating any law and demand identification of passengers?
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I don't think "Judge, what I did shouldn't be illegal" is much of a defense.
I am not sure but my guess is that if law enforcement believes that crimes are being committed in a private business and they can get a warrant then they are allowed. As far as demanding identification of passengers in a car I think it is permissible if they have probable cause.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I agree with you on sex work, sex trafficking, and constitutional rights. But I'm strongly in favor of Bob Kraft's public humiliation, so I'm torn on this one.
(HULK)
(Smash)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/04/03/robert-kraft-sex-spa-case-fake-bomb-threat/3354549002/
Major news outlets finally reporting on the constitutional encroachment angle here. All it took was the lawyers for Kraft saying it.
We're supposed to be the land of the free. Not the land of stretching the law as much as possible and then some to stop a misdemeanor.
Major news outlets finally reporting on the constitutional encroachment angle here. All it took was the lawyers for Kraft saying it.
We're supposed to be the land of the free. Not the land of stretching the law as much as possible and then some to stop a misdemeanor.
(HULK)
(Smash)
I didn't think this whole thing could get weirder, but I guess it's Florida so now let's link it all to a Chinese spy ring too:
https://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article228849899.html
https://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article228849899.html
(HULK)
(Smash)
It is now official. Prosector for the state of Florida says no sex trafficking at Orchids of Asia.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26507622/lawyer-argues-kraft-video-release-authorities-say-spa-not-linked-human-trafficking
Soooooo... Anyone want to walk back any of their previous statements?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26507622/lawyer-argues-kraft-video-release-authorities-say-spa-not-linked-human-trafficking
Soooooo... Anyone want to walk back any of their previous statements?
rockaction
Footballguy
Um, knowing what I know about the internet and the people making the statements, probably not. There will be some justification for bomb threats and video surveillance of an establishment that merely solicited hand jobs. It's always for the greater good, don't you know?
eta* Max and the act (NSFW)
eta2* Montage (NSFW)
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pantherclub
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
We can get back to making fun of Robert Kraft's feeble old self getting a handy now, right?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
How is that possible?! The DA and company were talking nonstop about sex trafficking narrative.
I hope Kraft’s attorneys go after them for defamation or somesuch
rockaction
Footballguy
Because there's sex trafficking in Florida, which means every bit of prostitution involves just that.How is that possible?! The DA and company were talking nonstop about sex trafficking narrative.
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
Henry Ford is strangely absent now.
[icon]
Insoxicated
Maybe there are people in here who would be cool with their name being publicly dragged through the mud of one of the most morally dispicable and vile crimes after committing a misdemeanor that is openly legal in more than one developed nation.
Me, I’d probably like those who used my name as a pawn in a publicity stunt to be held accountable.
Different strokes I guess.
You do you. I’ll do me.
Glll peas.
Me, I’d probably like those who used my name as a pawn in a publicity stunt to be held accountable.
Different strokes I guess.
You do you. I’ll do me.
Glll peas.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Nobody is celebrating. But there were people wanted to castrate the guy for getting a hand job. There is a ton of human trafficking going on with disgusting tactics which include drugging and abuse and forced prostitution. Those guys deserve condemnation. But equating those guys with going to an AMP seemed way way over the top.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
It's what I expected. Yeah, the false accusations he made on Kraft and the women involved in this spa are a terrible look.
culdeus
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
There were enough seeds of doubt to jump to wild conclusions, that's for sure.
But it's sort of like any other law enforcement narrative that's leaked with evidence that was probably obtained unconstitutionally. Probably, if not likely, bull####.
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(HULK)
(Smash)
I just hope this case ends up as a landmark that stops sex work and trafficking being constantly conflated with each other. Because they're drastically different things.
I also wouldn't mind if this stops law enforcement from infringing on constitutionally protected rights without a damn solid reason to do so.
Somehow, I doubt either occur, but I guess we'll see.
Even though everyone they have on video getting handies DEFINITELY broke the law, I wouldn't be surprised to see charges against all of them dropped because LE had no reason to have gotten the video surveillance in the first place, therefor making their smoking gun inadmissible. And then I'd expect the defamation suits to roll into Jupiter. Maybe that will be enough to cause departments across the nation to pause and think before they act in these matters.
I really think that decriminalization or legalization of sex work would really be a helpful step towards fighting actual sex trafficking. I know the stats on that say I could be right but also that I could be wrong. Regardless, anything has got to be better than just racially profiling Asian sex workers as trafficked and bending the law beyond reason to prosecute misdemeanors is about the worst way to combat actual sex trafficking. I just hope that we can find a better way because it is something that should happen to no one ever.
I also wouldn't mind if this stops law enforcement from infringing on constitutionally protected rights without a damn solid reason to do so.
Somehow, I doubt either occur, but I guess we'll see.
Even though everyone they have on video getting handies DEFINITELY broke the law, I wouldn't be surprised to see charges against all of them dropped because LE had no reason to have gotten the video surveillance in the first place, therefor making their smoking gun inadmissible. And then I'd expect the defamation suits to roll into Jupiter. Maybe that will be enough to cause departments across the nation to pause and think before they act in these matters.
I really think that decriminalization or legalization of sex work would really be a helpful step towards fighting actual sex trafficking. I know the stats on that say I could be right but also that I could be wrong. Regardless, anything has got to be better than just racially profiling Asian sex workers as trafficked and bending the law beyond reason to prosecute misdemeanors is about the worst way to combat actual sex trafficking. I just hope that we can find a better way because it is something that should happen to no one ever.
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