Stealthycat
Footballguy
I do not understand that concept - disagreeing with something and wanting it legal for others to do it
Can you give me other examples of things that people are generally against but ok that other people do them ?
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Roe v. Wade Overturned (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter ekbeats
- Start date
I do not understand that concept - disagreeing with something and wanting it legal for others to do it
Can you give me other examples of things that people are generally against but ok that other people do them ?
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I'm not going to argue with anyone about abortion (pro-life vs pro-choice), but can anyone deny that this ruling is a gift to the Democrats. For 50 years the abortion issue has been a rallying cry for the Conservatives to get the vote out. Suddenly it's a rallying cry for the Democrats. If they play this correctly, the mid-terms may not be the blood bath we were expecting.
Insein
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
I don't think so no
Most Demcorats are voting Democrat anyway - its the middle ground people who make up the differences in voting and I think gas prices, inflation, wars in Ukraine, feeble leader etc will be on their minds far more than a SC ruling that places States in control of abortion laws
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
It's not going to have the effect you think. Inflation will still be bad. Crime will still be bad. Immigration will still be bad. Dr. Birx just said they are expecting another COVID wave during the summer. Abortion is like 6th or 7th on the list of things that people care about. Don't think there are a ton of single issue voters and if there are, abortion isn't that issue.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
not me
I'd place restrictions on the foods served if I could .... some people really do believe a McRib is rib meat (the McRib is not made from rib meat. It's made of restructured meat products like heart, tripe, and scalded stomach)
moleculo
Footballguy
abortion is THE single issue people have been voting on for decades. It's damn near the top o things that people care about.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
Of course. This would have been much better for Republicans to occur in 2023 or to have occurred in 2021 than to occur now. The media cycle is constantly negative for Biden and Democrats with inflation, the border, etc. This gives them a chance to reset. Now, inflation I don't think is going away prior to November either and in the long run it may turn out that if this order is going to happen regardless, it's better for Republicans to get it out there now as opposed to June or July. It's all speculation at this point but I don't think it can be argued this is the one thing that could have gotten intensity raised to vote on the left and it came at a time they needed it the most.
moleculo
Footballguy
You would place restrictions on fast food if you could? If you ruled the world, you would make the McRib illegal?
Talk about a nanny state. wow.
You don't have to actively kill a fetus to abort it, either -- just remove it from the mother's body and stop providing it nutrients, etc.
In case it helps, it seems like the bone marrow thing is a modified variant of Judith Jarvis Thomson's famous essay. Here's the Wikipedia page about it, which includes a summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion
I don't think it's a total slam-dunk argument in defense of abortion, but it's generally recognized as being one of the more thought-provoking philosophical essays written on the subject.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Its one of the top things for liberals and conservatives - many in this nation do not place it high .... economy is their concern, jobs, things like that.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
This is kind of where I am too, but I think some people are underplaying the impact a bit because they forget that state legislative elections in 46 states and gubernatorial (best word ever) races in 36, and those are obviously on the same ballot as the House and Senate races. Those local races have traditionally gotten more attention from conservatives than liberals, but I don't think that's going to be the case this year.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
maybe not ban ... but HFCS I would, dyes, maybe nitrates/nitrites and other things sure
but you can't argue McRib's are nasty
moleculo
Footballguy
you don't have to look very hard to find people who only voted conservative for years because they wanted R vs W overturned. "Mission Accomplished." Those people can stay home now.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I think it was even lower than 6th or 7th on the list regarding Democrats while Roe vs Wade was law. I think it shoots up to #1 for many people with it being overturned. This will motivate younger people to get out and vote (a group that is natorious for staying home).
I hope you are a little bit less "real and honest" around your daughter.
emotional and physical damage also exists for those kids that are born - we can talk about pro-life vs pro-choice and I am pro-life - but for those of us rallying behind a change to pro-life where does our responsibility stop? do we just want the child born? or do we want that child to have a good environment to thrive? and what are we willing to do to to help make that environment?
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Really?
In 2020, abortion was 12th. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/08/13/important-issues-in-the-2020-election/
In 2016, it was 13th: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/07/07/4-top-voting-issues-in-2016-election/
Economy has been the #1 voting issue. Hint: most people want abortion regulation
moleculo
Footballguy
I won't, but I'll defend to the death your right to eat a McRib covered in HFCS "BBQ" sauce.
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Jackstraw
Footballguy
LawFitz
Footballguy
Agree with your take here. Just wish you'd have extended the same logic to the whole vax mandate debate. (If you did, I'm sorry for thinking you didn't.)
i.e. So many here seemed to cheer and glee at the accounts of people losing their jobs, schooling and/or freedoms for not getting jabbed. When all their other arguments failed (e.g. slowing transmission, mutation), they fell on the sword of - well we need to keep people from getting sick themselves b/c they are putting a strain on the healthcare system!
You know what puts a strain on the healthcare system? Poor diet. That said, people should be able to eat whatever #### they choose. And even though I am anti-abortion generally, I am very pro-choice at the same time, and wish the SCOTUS hadn't taken this very divisive path during these ever divisive times.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I've never read that, but its a bad analogy
You wake up in the morning and find yourself back to back in bed with an unconscious violinist. A famous unconscious violinist. He has been found to have a fatal kidney ailment, and the Society of Music Lovers has canvassed all the available medical records and found that you alone have the right blood type to help. They have therefore kidnapped you, and last night the violinist's circulatory system was plugged into yours, so that your kidneys can be used to extract poisons from his blood as well as your own. [If he is unplugged from you now, he will die; but] in nine months he will have recovered from his ailment, and can safely be unplugged from you.[4]
kidnapping is illegal, you did nothing to get yourself into that situation of having a certain blood type .... that makes it totally a different discussion
The Freakonimics guys from U Chicago have published several times, with rebuttals, about the link between abortion and a reduction in crime. If we're going to have more kids growing up poor, in single-mom homes, we need to increase support for early childhood education.
>>The fact is, today, only about half of three- and four-year-olds in America are enrolled in early childhood education,” Biden said last month. “In Germany, France, and the UK, even Latvia, the number of children in those countries enrolled is 90% – 90%.”
In fact, the US trails much of the world in enrollment in pre-primary education, even though there’s clear evidence that high-quality programs pay off. Their rates of return often mirror or exceed stock market returns, especially among less privileged children.
Possible benefits of good quality early childhood education are far-reaching, including, but not limited to, better health, higher incomes and less crime.<<
Most US parents struggle to find affordable preschool. One Texas city has them covered
Stealthycat
Footballguy
and for liberals who voted to keep abortion
millions in between is my point
its amazing how many right here would agree abortions for birth control is a sick thing that none of us really care for especially after 6-8 weeks
why everyone can't agree on that was because of Roe ruling ... now? States and people can decide what's best for their States
FairWarning
Footballguy
What percentage would that be? I don’t know anyone up here. It must be the southerners.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
personally, I'd rather decide what's best for me, instead of the state. But, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that someone who wants to make the McRib illegal would be ok with the nanny state making other decisions for me.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
feminists would say single moms are strong and brave and applauded - who needs a man ?
but I agree - strong family units are important, that's why having sex before marriage, before knowing who you're making babies with is a big, big decision to be making
education comes in many ways ... my GF is a Kindergarten teacher and the programs ran today are sucking at teaching kids (charter school, mostly black/latino kids) and their at home support sucks too
I don't disagree with any of the above really .... so why are people choosing to do the things that make babies if they don't want babies?
They have an out if they get pregnant - abortion. That's what I've said all along here, personal responsibility, good choices, don't use abortion for birth control/convenience .... get a way better system of adoption for when babies need homes after birth
there isn't a reason we can't have the above is there?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
The inconsistency is you telling another human, yeah its your body but NOT your choice. Silly to not see that IMO
Stealthycat
Footballguy
like covid shots? illegal drugs? drinking and driving? speed limits? curfews for teens?
we could go on and on with how Govt controls us right ? I'm sure you are in favor of many things your nanny state dictates ....
Jayrod
Footballguy
Midwesterners too.
You know "flyover country" or the people who don't really matter...until they elect Trump and get Roe vs. Wade overturned.
This is half the country. You may want to pull your head out of your Northern/Eastern/West Coast sand and pay attention.
It made sense / resonated with when I first read it. --if we're protecting life at all costs, and you were the only means to sustain that life, a decision to NOT donate is like an abortion.
edit to add I just saw Maurile's post. ---
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Jayrod
Footballguy
Funny thing about R/D, urban/rural, red/blue, coasts/midwest, etc. is the sheer number of those on the left who have no idea about those on the right and can't fathom how they think or that they even exist.
Meanwhile the right knows all about the left thanks to the constant barrage of media coverage, Hollywood and academia influence. It's in your face every single day unless you live under a rock.
Meanwhile the right knows all about the left thanks to the constant barrage of media coverage, Hollywood and academia influence. It's in your face every single day unless you live under a rock.
The Commish
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
What if the leak was not from a clerk or a staffer but from a Justice? Since we are casting aspersions and wildly speculating why not go whole hog?
If the internal investigation does not get to the bottom of this would the Supremes try to force the press to reveal their source, and if so how would that change precedent?
God save the child who rings that bell
may have one good ring baby, who can tell?
One watch by night
One watch by day
If you get confused just listen to the music play.
If the internal investigation does not get to the bottom of this would the Supremes try to force the press to reveal their source, and if so how would that change precedent?
God save the child who rings that bell
may have one good ring baby, who can tell?
One watch by night
One watch by day
If you get confused just listen to the music play.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
nobody ever said we protect live at all costs - Lord if that was the case we'd ban cigarettes and obesity etc !
we're talking innocent, unborn life that's being killed in most cases because its an inconvenience and directly resulting from actions the mother took
that makes it vastly different
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
This is a person who wants to compel rape victims to carry their rapists' baby to term.
Don't let the pro-lifers off the hook by making this debate about the eventual quality of life for some hypothetical unborn child that can't speak for itself to correct them.
There are actual existing, living, breathing humans whose lives will be ruined by this. I just read a quote from a longtime abortion doc who was around pre-1973 and he estimates we'll get about a story a day about women dying from botched abortions once this is the law of the land. Let's talk about them, their lives and their autonomy before we get into hypotheticals about what some clumps of microscopic reproductive matter might eventually become if nothing interferes.
moleculo
Footballguy
I'm not sure that's accurate. The right knows about the public face of the left, and they know how the right-wing-media paints them but I'm not sure that's representative of rank-and-file.
moleculo
Footballguy
you don't know that. please stop trying to ascribe motive. you have no idea what other people have been through and frankly, it's none of your business.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I don't think it's going to have zero effect, but it's not going to impact like inflation will and other issues will. It will go from 12th most important topic to like 6th most important. But most independent voters aren't going to single issue abortion over their pocketbooks. Never happens en masse.
supermike80
Footballguy
No it really isnt. There is another person involved. You guys always forget that part.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
and yet I'd allow that 1% of abortions to continue to end the 95-97 done for convince - you forgot to mention that
I don't know what that means
lives are ruined by choices of committing murders everyday, lives are ruined by drug choices daily or of obesity choices or DUI choices ........ if a woman wants to break a law and it causes her bodily harm ... her choice
the most innocent of lives should be the ones we protect the most
jm192
Footballguy
I want rape victims to be able to have abortions. I can't imagine that torture, and we should have exceptions for this sort of thing.
But for the 10th time in this thread--what percentage of abortions are actually rape related? The pro-choice crowd does a great job of throwing out "Well, what about this exception?" And I'm going to readily concede all the exceptions. Birth defects? Sure. Mother's life at risk? Sure. Rape/incest? Sure. Does that subset of abortions constitute the majority? If someone has statistics, please show me.
Now with me agreeing with you that ALL the exceptions should have abortions, how do you feel about the rest of the abortions?
And it's kind of uncompelling to tell people "Don't worry about the thing you're considering, worry about what I'm considering. You should consider what I worry about first." I'm absolutely going to keep worrying about the unborn babies.
The whole "microscopic clump of reproductive matter" is absurd. You can detect a heart beat between 5 and 7 weeks. That's not microscopic clumps. That's an organ. And while some pregnancies never make it, generally, it isn't a hypothetical. If most pregnancies aren't interfered with--they become living/breathing human babies. That's not a hypothetical. That's the natural outcome of pregnancy.
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FairWarning
Footballguy
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