Roethlisberger Undervalued in '07 (1 Viewer)

[-OZ-]

1. New head coach Tomlin promises high powered passing offense

2. Three great targets in Ward, Miller and emerging star S. Holmes

3. Despite injuries, Big Ben 10th in QB ppg

4. Big Ben is underrated as a passing QB

5. People will mistakenly be thinking of the old, run-first regime

If you were to rank every team's receiving options(WR, TE, and RB's receiving ability) where would you put the Steelers?

Above Average

Agreed, above average and underrated. Certainly not among the Indy, Cincy, Arizona, and Dallas set, but if you took the time to list the teams and truly consider their abilities, I doubt you'd find 5 other teams (after those 4) you'd prefer hands down, making Pittsburgh arguably a top 10 receiving group. Assani's post helps illustrate why Ben is underrated. Most people don't understand that Ward is one of the best WRs in the league. He had a down year with Ben last year and he doesn't have elite speed, but you won't find too many WRs willing to do what he does. Miller is an above average TE, not among the top receiving TEs but good enough, and Holmes will be a very good #2 WR in 2007.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

One of the concerns is the TD/INT ratio.It was horrible in 06.Its very hard to find a veteran QB that throws more picks than scores in multiple seasons and keeps his job. You see it from a young unaccomplished QB sometimes, but that's it.Ben IS on the hot seat in 2007. I think its fair to say he will turn it around. But if he starts 07 slow, he may hit the pine quick.And then on top of that he is injury-prone anyway.And then you have the fact that there is a new head coach who is not beholden to Ben. Ben isn't his player. He didn't draft Ben. If Ben flames out, it doesn't look bad on Tomlin.I believe he can be a good starter. But I think if he is undervalued its because people are more concerned with these risks than others.

There's no way he's on the hot seat and he's not getting benched unless the Steelers inexplicably draft another QB. Batch isn't a long-term solution - Roethlisberger is the present and the future.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Ken Anderson just got hired as QB Coach. I'll downgrade Big Ben now, can't remember the last time Kenny had a good QB.

He doesn't draft them, he just tries to make them better.Akili Smith, Kitna, Leftwich, Gerrard.....not much you can do with that bunch.

 

[Godsbrother]

One of the concerns is the TD/INT ratio.It was horrible in 06.Its very hard to find a veteran QB that throws more picks than scores in multiple seasons and keeps his job. You see it from a young unaccomplished QB sometimes, but that's it.Ben IS on the hot seat in 2007. I think its fair to say he will turn it around. But if he starts 07 slow, he may hit the pine quick.And then on top of that he is injury-prone anyway.And then you have the fact that there is a new head coach who is not beholden to Ben. Ben isn't his player. He didn't draft Ben. If Ben flames out, it doesn't look bad on Tomlin.

Ben is the franchise QB and Tomlin has already come out and said so. The Steelers aren't going to give up on a guy that went 15-1 in his rookie season (98.1 passer rating), won the Super Bowl in his second season (98.6 passer rating) and went 8-8 last season despite a horrible start due to medical problems (had 23 ints but also completed 60% if his passes and set personal records for passing yards and TDs).The Steelers aren't like the Browns who change QBs and coaches as often as most people change their underwear. Ben is NOT on the hot seat, not even close.

 

[Tau837]

Another thing to consider:Roeth's first 3 starts last year represented 3 of his worst 4 games of the season. I think there's some reason to believe that those games were deceptive because he was still recovering from the motorcycle accident and the appendix problem. If you exclude those games then his PPG jumps up into the QB6-7 range.

This made me want to look at his season last year. More than likely, most teams who drafted him had him as a QB2. The problem is that I doubt many teams started Ben much last season.1 - Everyone knew he was out and didn't start him2 PIT JAX 17 32 141 0 2 1 0 0 5.0 - probably didn't start him in first game back3 PIT CIN 18 39 208 0 3 1 -1 0 7.3 - probably didn't start him after poor performance5 PIT SD 20 31 220 0 2 0 0 0 9.0 - probably didn't start him after poor performance6 PIT KC 16 19 238 2 0 1 0 0 19.9 - probably didn't start him after poor performance7 PIT ATL 16 22 238 3 0 3 -2 0 23.7 - may have started him due to matchup, but doubtful with only 1 of 4 good games so far8 PIT OAK 25 37 301 1 4 1 5 0 15.6 - probably started him, average performance9 PIT DEN 38 54 433 1 3 3 9 0 23.5 - probably didn't start him against Denver and after 4 int game10 PIT NO 17 28 264 3 0 2 1 0 25.3 - may have started him due to matchup, but maybe not, with 7 ints in last 2 games11 PIT CLE 25 44 272 2 3 2 20 0 20.6 - probably started him 12 PIT BAL 21 41 214 0 2 1 -1 0 8.6 - bad matchup, but may have started him after 3 straight 20+ games... if so, got burned 13 PIT TB 12 25 198 2 1 2 2 0 17.1 - may have started him, average performance14 PIT CLE 11 21 225 1 0 3 4 1 21.6 - may have started him, good performance 15 PIT CAR 10 17 125 1 0 5 12 1 17.4 - may have started him, average performance 16 PIT BAL 15 31 156 1 2 4 33 0 13.1 - probably didn't start him after last performance vs. BAL17 PIT CIN 19 28 280 1 1 3 16 0 18.6 - probably didn't matter for most leaguesSo I figure the best case for teams with another option would have been to start him in these games:7 ATL 23.78 OAK 15.610 NO 25.311 CLE 20.613 TB 17.114 CLE 21.615 CAR 17.4Of course, I assumed the teams had another option, so chances are this best case wouldn't materialize, as an owner would choose another starter for a few of these weeks due to various factors... and may have been forced to start Ben in other weeks when he didn't perform as well. Still, if an owner got these 7 games from him, he was probably pretty happy down the stretch.There were three things that were particularly good about his fantasy season last year. First, no one had to draft him as a QB1 unless their team was otherwise stacked. Second, no one should have been tempted to start him in the initial horrid fantasy stretch to open the season (his first 3 games). Third, after he recovered from the first 3 games, he only had one game below 13 fantasy points, and that game was predictable (@BAL).It's hard for me to see Ben being an every week starter. A lot depends on the new coaching staff and its philosophy, as well as whether they have to play from behind as much as last season. And, while the injury prone label may not be fully appropriate, it is still true that he has always missed games for whatever reason, and I'll be more comfortable after I see him play 16 once. I'd be happy with him as a backup but not so happy if my QB1 went down and I had to go to Ben full time.That ended up as a bit of a rambling post. I'm not convinced he'll be undervalued next year, because I still think of him as a QB2, albeit one of the better ones. I suspect in most cases, someone else will draft him before I'm ready to do so, as happened this past year.

 

[Godsbrother]

Another thing to consider:Roeth's first 3 starts last year represented 3 of his worst 4 games of the season. I think there's some reason to believe that those games were deceptive because he was still recovering from the motorcycle accident and the appendix problem. If you exclude those games then his PPG jumps up into the QB6-7 range.

This made me want to look at his season last year. More than likely, most teams who drafted him had him as a QB2. The problem is that I doubt many teams started Ben much last season.

A lot of leagues nowadays allow a 2nd QB to start as a Flex. In these types of leagues, Roethlisberger owners probably started him for most of the season, especially in the 2nd half.

 

[Iron Mike Tomczak]

I don't think that Ben is on the hot seat, but I think his TD/INT ratio must improve. It was pathetic last year, and he was just tossing the ball on occassion to anyone in the neighborhood. I believe there was a point when he had more TDs for the opponents than the Steelers. With that being said, he was plagued with off the field problems of Biblical porportions. I think he will rebound nicely in 2007.

If he repeats his #s in INTs for a few years, then maybe he will have to watch his back.

 

[NorrisB]

1. New head coach Tomlin promises high powered passing offense2. Three great targets in Ward, Miller and emerging star S. Holmes3. Despite injuries, Big Ben 10th in QB ppg4. Big Ben is underrated as a passing QB5. People will mistakenly be thinking of the old, run-first regime

I agree

 

[OoOBaby]

1. New head coach Tomlin promises high powered passing offense2. Three great targets in Ward, Miller and emerging star S. Holmes3. Despite injuries, Big Ben 10th in QB ppg4. Big Ben is underrated as a passing QB5. People will mistakenly be thinking of the old, run-first regime

You're always a day late and a dollar short on these predictions.After Galloway had a career year, you went on about how he was such a great value pick the next year. (er flawed logic?) You did the same thing with Bledsoe. As you said, Big Ben was a top 10 QB last year. Every FF forum I check Big Ben is getting hyped up as a great sleeper. He was a TOP 10 QB. He just had a CAREER YEAR. He's not a sleeper. He's not underrated.Guys are almost never underrated after a career year. In fact they're almost always overrated. I've seen drafts where Big Ben is QB6-12. That's hardly underrated. That's actually right where he should be taken.AND, people were hyping Big Ben last year, you know before his career year? Last year he was a great value play in dynasty leagues. You know, before his career year? Now you're just unfashionable late, telling us things we already knew, and most people knew last year.

 

[Biabreakable]

I used to be with EBF on Ben as a Qb prospect who would become elite by 2006 season. I had him ranked as the 4th overall rookie prospect from the great draft class of 2004 which truly was an impressive group of players.

I believed in him so much that I traded Carson Palmer for Ben and Michael Turner (amoung other things I forget now).

That was before the concusions and the motorcycle accident.

I have had it confirmed that concusions are an injury that increase in proboblity after the 1st one of hapening again. Therefore I have Ben as an injury risk and the promise I once saw in him has diminished because of this.

I still like him an awful lot and I expect him to perform well moving forward. But a Qb who is at risk of injury is not somthing I want to allocate a lot of resources to in dynasty leagues where I am looking at a Qb who can hold the position down for me for 5 years moving forward.

I moved Ben for Torry Holt last offseason worried about the long term effects of the accident and I have no regrets.

 

[Bri]

I used to be with EBF on Ben as a Qb prospect who would become elite by 2006 season. I had him ranked as the 4th overall rookie prospect from the great draft class of 2004 which truly was an impressive group of players. I believed in him so much that I traded Carson Palmer for Ben and Michael Turner (amoung other things I forget now).That was before the concusions and the motorcycle accident.I have had it confirmed that concusions are an injury that increase in proboblity after the 1st one of hapening again. Therefore I have Ben as an injury risk and the promise I once saw in him has diminished because of this.I still like him an awful lot and I expect him to perform well moving forward. But a Qb who is at risk of injury is not somthing I want to allocate a lot of resources to in dynasty leagues where I am looking at a Qb who can hold the position down for me for 5 years moving forward.I moved Ben for Torry Holt last offseason worried about the long term effects of the accident and I have no regrets.

I disagreeAs unfortunate as it is, they're obvious injuries so in the FF world of evaluating injuries they're good(loose term, see unfortunate). I mean ya know the guy is out not like a hammy or sprained ankle or somesuch. And like Aikman you'll know when his career is winding down quick.Again, it's unfortunate they have to go thru this but part of FF is evaluating these injuries so...

 

[-OZ-]

1. New head coach Tomlin promises high powered passing offense

2. Three great targets in Ward, Miller and emerging star S. Holmes

3. Despite injuries, Big Ben 10th in QB ppg

4. Big Ben is underrated as a passing QB

5. People will mistakenly be thinking of the old, run-first regime

You're always a day late and a dollar short on these predictions.After Galloway had a career year, you went on about how he was such a great value pick the next year. (er flawed logic?) You did the same thing with Bledsoe.

As you said, Big Ben was a top 10 QB last year. Every FF forum I check Big Ben is getting hyped up as a great sleeper. He was a TOP 10 QB. He just had a CAREER YEAR. He's not a sleeper. He's not underrated.

Guys are almost never underrated after a career year. In fact they're almost always overrated. I've seen drafts where Big Ben is QB6-12. That's hardly underrated. That's actually right where he should be taken.

AND, people were hyping Big Ben last year, you know before his career year? Last year he was a great value play in dynasty leagues. You know, before his career year? Now you're just unfashionable late, telling us things we already knew, and most people knew last year.

He was hyped before his injury. Probably could have been had cheap after that, if not then after the first 4-6 games of the year where he was out of sync. A career year after that off season, while getting sacked twice as often as the previous year. I expect him to improve.

Now, if he's getting drafted as QB6, he isn't underrated. That's higher than I've seen him though. He's #15 in our dynasty polls That is underrated IMO.

 

[Biabreakable]

I used to be with EBF on Ben as a Qb prospect who would become elite by 2006 season. I had him ranked as the 4th overall rookie prospect from the great draft class of 2004 which truly was an impressive group of players. I believed in him so much that I traded Carson Palmer for Ben and Michael Turner (amoung other things I forget now).That was before the concusions and the motorcycle accident.I have had it confirmed that concusions are an injury that increase in proboblity after the 1st one of hapening again. Therefore I have Ben as an injury risk and the promise I once saw in him has diminished because of this.I still like him an awful lot and I expect him to perform well moving forward. But a Qb who is at risk of injury is not somthing I want to allocate a lot of resources to in dynasty leagues where I am looking at a Qb who can hold the position down for me for 5 years moving forward.I moved Ben for Torry Holt last offseason worried about the long term effects of the accident and I have no regrets.

I disagreeAs unfortunate as it is, they're obvious injuries so in the FF world of evaluating injuries they're good(loose term, see unfortunate). I mean ya know the guy is out not like a hammy or sprained ankle or somesuch. And like Aikman you'll know when his career is winding down quick.Again, it's unfortunate they have to go thru this but part of FF is evaluating these injuries so...

Not sure what you disagree with here.Yes if he has another concusion you will know he will be out the next game more than likely and can adjust your lineup accordingly.However I am talking about the long term effects of this type of injury that if he suffers a few more that may mean the end for him.He also did not play as well in the early going while brain still scrambled... so even if starting after he has another concusion he may not play up to normal ability.I was sold on him long term before this problem and it is a fact that has made me change my perspective on him as a long term elite player. I think he is a risk to be re-injured and if/when he is he will be closer to career end with each time it happens.

 

[BGP]

I will continue to worry about his durability until he starts consistently playing in every game. If he started every season in 2007, that would not be enough. If he put up back-to-back years where he started every game, that would ease my concerns some. If he does it three years in a row, then I might not worry about his durability anymore.

 

[BGP]

The Steelers aren't like the Browns who change QBs and coaches as often as most people change their underwear. Ben is NOT on the hot seat, not even close.

The Steelers actually change QBs quite a bit. Since 95 its been O'Donnell, Tomczak, Kordell, Tomczak, Kordell, Maddox, Ben. I'm not sure why you would dispute this.

 

[BGP]

Ben IS on the hot seat in 2007. I think its fair to say he will turn it around. But if he starts 07 slow, he may hit the pine quick.

I don't buy it. He's the face of the franchise and the guy at the controls of their big seasons in 2004 and 2005. He's not the kind of player who gets benched after an 8-8 season and a few bad games. In fact, of all the QBs playing in the NFL right now, I think he's one of the few guys who is a lock to remain a starter in the league for a long time. He pretty much had the worst year possible last year from an NFL perspective and was still decent enough to keep the Steelers in the playoff picture in a tough division.

Well remember Kordell Stewart. Kordell started playing lousy, but a lot of steeler fans couldn't see it. They kept backing their guy. The Steelers of course are going to back their starting QB. But then the day finally came where they had to pull the plug.Ben led the NFL in interceptions. I maintain that you cannot keep doing that and stay a starting QB for very long. I also did say I expect he will do better this season. I AM NOT PREDICTING HE WILL BE BENCHED. I am saying that IF he doesn't improve, if he is still leading the NFL in interceptions, then he may hit the pine quick.

 

[renesauz]

I see a borderline QB1 in this years redraft (10-12 area), but I can see as high as QB6 or 7 in a dynasty format. The kids only going to get better.

 

[BGP]

There's no way he's on the hot seat and he's not getting benched unless the Steelers inexplicably draft another QB. Batch isn't a long-term solution - Roethlisberger is the present and the future.

Alright, let's ask it this way. We know that Ben led the NFL in INTs last year. Let's say he opens up the same as he did a year ago, and that is after his first three games, Ben has thrown 0 TDs and 7 INTs, and the Steelers lose all three games. He is once again leading the NFL in interceptions. You don't think he would be in any danger of being benched?

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

The Steelers aren't like the Browns who change QBs and coaches as often as most people change their underwear. Ben is NOT on the hot seat, not even close.

The Steelers actually change QBs quite a bit. Since 95 its been O'Donnell, Tomczak, Kordell, Tomczak, Kordell, Maddox, Ben. I'm not sure why you would dispute this.

You forgot Kent Graham. I wish I could.

 

[-OZ-]

There's no way he's on the hot seat and he's not getting benched unless the Steelers inexplicably draft another QB. Batch isn't a long-term solution - Roethlisberger is the present and the future.

Alright, let's ask it this way. We know that Ben led the NFL in INTs last year. Let's say he opens up the same as he did a year ago, and that is after his first three games, Ben has thrown 0 TDs and 7 INTs, and the Steelers lose all three games. He is once again leading the NFL in interceptions. You don't think he would be in any danger of being benched?

Yeah, and he might also be benched if he gets in another motorcycle accident or gets another emergency appendectomy.

 

[LHUCKS]

1. New head coach Tomlin promises high powered passing offense2. Three great targets in Ward, Miller and emerging star S. Holmes3. Despite injuries, Big Ben 10th in QB ppg4. Big Ben is underrated as a passing QB5. People will mistakenly be thinking of the old, run-first regime

You're always a day late and a dollar short on these predictions.After Galloway had a career year, you went on about how he was such a great value pick the next year. (er flawed logic?) You did the same thing with Bledsoe. As you said, Big Ben was a top 10 QB last year. Every FF forum I check Big Ben is getting hyped up as a great sleeper. He was a TOP 10 QB. He just had a CAREER YEAR. He's not a sleeper. He's not underrated.Guys are almost never underrated after a career year. In fact they're almost always overrated. I've seen drafts where Big Ben is QB6-12. That's hardly underrated. That's actually right where he should be taken.AND, people were hyping Big Ben last year, you know before his career year? Last year he was a great value play in dynasty leagues. You know, before his career year? Now you're just unfashionable late, telling us things we already knew, and most people knew last year.

:11: Ummm, who's the guy with a new number, but claims to know my predictions from the past several years?Congrats on getting a new IP buddy...you were banned the first time for a reason...probably because of posts like the one above.

 

[Irish]

One of the concerns is the TD/INT ratio.It was horrible in 06.Its very hard to find a veteran QB that throws more picks than scores in multiple seasons and keeps his job. You see it from a young unaccomplished QB sometimes, but that's it.Ben IS on the hot seat in 2007. I think its fair to say he will turn it around. But if he starts 07 slow, he may hit the pine quick.And then on top of that he is injury-prone anyway.And then you have the fact that there is a new head coach who is not beholden to Ben. Ben isn't his player. He didn't draft Ben. If Ben flames out, it doesn't look bad on Tomlin.I believe he can be a good starter. But I think if he is undervalued its because people are more concerned with these risks than others.

I knew this thread would draw out BGP and his hatred toward Ben or any other Steeler. Ben is the Steelers franchise qb and there is not gonna be a quick hook to bench him. Get over the fact that your Browns passed up Ben and now have to live with Charlie boy as your qb. He did have an injury riddled turnover prone season last yr, but let us not forget what he did his two first seasons. Ben is a proven winner and has a Superbowl ring to prove it. You make him out to be a bust on the level of Tim Couch or Joey Harrington.

 

[Bri]

I see a borderline QB1 in this years redraft (10-12 area), but I can see as high as QB6 or 7 in a dynasty format. The kids only going to get better.

FF wise I really don't care for him too much and think he's average.NFL-wise I was plenty impressed with his leadership ability and ability under pressure as a rook but last year....well those great intangibles weren't as good. I'm curious what 07 will bring.As long as Pittsburgh prides itself on running behind a tough as nails OL, FF wise I don't really know what you Ben fans get all excited about.

 

[-OZ-]

I see a borderline QB1 in this years redraft (10-12 area), but I can see as high as QB6 or 7 in a dynasty format. The kids only going to get better.

FF wise I really don't care for him too much and think he's average.NFL-wise I was plenty impressed with his leadership ability and ability under pressure as a rook but last year....well those great intangibles weren't as good. I'm curious what 07 will bring.

As long as Pittsburgh prides itself on running behind a tough as nails OL, FF wise I don't really know what you Ben fans get all excited about.

I find it interesting how we can see the same things and come out with different results.We all saw him struggle. He went through a start of a season that would make many players either quit or stop working as hard. He overcame adversity. Call me dramatic, but I like that in a player and think it bodes well for the future.

Ben will probably never be a top 2 FF QB, but he can follow Tom Brady's career, and I'll take that.

 

[Tau837]

I see a borderline QB1 in this years redraft (10-12 area), but I can see as high as QB6 or 7 in a dynasty format. The kids only going to get better.

FF wise I really don't care for him too much and think he's average.NFL-wise I was plenty impressed with his leadership ability and ability under pressure as a rook but last year....well those great intangibles weren't as good. I'm curious what 07 will bring.

As long as Pittsburgh prides itself on running behind a tough as nails OL, FF wise I don't really know what you Ben fans get all excited about.

I find it interesting how we can see the same things and come out with different results.We all saw him struggle. He went through a start of a season that would make many players either quit or stop working as hard. He overcame adversity. Call me dramatic, but I like that in a player and think it bodes well for the future.

Ben will probably never be a top 2 FF QB, but he can follow Tom Brady's career, and I'll take that.

Uh, Brady has been a top 2 FF QB (in 2005), and is generally regarded by many to be the next best FF QB after Manning. Not quite sure what you're saying here. If you are saying Ben can hover around the 9-11 range, as Brady has done most years, I think that's probably true, but I think it's more likely he'll be below that range than above it.

 

[NorrisB]

I see a borderline QB1 in this years redraft (10-12 area), but I can see as high as QB6 or 7 in a dynasty format. The kids only going to get better.

FF wise I really don't care for him too much and think he's average.NFL-wise I was plenty impressed with his leadership ability and ability under pressure as a rook but last year....well those great intangibles weren't as good. I'm curious what 07 will bring.

As long as Pittsburgh prides itself on running behind a tough as nails OL, FF wise I don't really know what you Ben fans get all excited about.

I find it interesting how we can see the same things and come out with different results.We all saw him struggle. He went through a start of a season that would make many players either quit or stop working as hard. He overcame adversity. Call me dramatic, but I like that in a player and think it bodes well for the future.

Ben will probably never be a top 2 FF QB, but he can follow Tom Brady's career, and I'll take that.

Uh, Brady has been a top 2 FF QB (in 2005), and is generally regarded by many to be the next best FF QB after Manning.Palmer Not quite sure what you're saying here. If you are saying Ben can hover around the 9-11 range, as Brady has done most years, I think that's probably true, but I think it's more likely he'll be below that range than above it.

 

[Bri]

I see a borderline QB1 in this years redraft (10-12 area), but I can see as high as QB6 or 7 in a dynasty format. The kids only going to get better.

FF wise I really don't care for him too much and think he's average.NFL-wise I was plenty impressed with his leadership ability and ability under pressure as a rook but last year....well those great intangibles weren't as good. I'm curious what 07 will bring.

As long as Pittsburgh prides itself on running behind a tough as nails OL, FF wise I don't really know what you Ben fans get all excited about.

I find it interesting how we can see the same things and come out with different results.We all saw him struggle. He went through a start of a season that would make many players either quit or stop working as hard. He overcame adversity. Call me dramatic, but I like that in a player and think it bodes well for the future.

Ben will probably never be a top 2 FF QB, but he can follow Tom Brady's career, and I'll take that.

It almost appears like you give him credit for persevering yet ignore that he struggled even though you mentioned it. I don't think he's anything like Brady, he's more Simms like to me.

 

[Guzalot]

He has yet to throw more than 18 TD's in a season so color me unimpressed. At his best, he's another Trent Dilfer. He might win games, but his numbers will never impress, This doesn't make him a bad QB, not by any means. But as far as fantasy value, he's a bye-week/injury start at best.

Just my 2c...

 

[Stillers Jr.]

The Steelers aren't like the Browns who change QBs and coaches as often as most people change their underwear. Ben is NOT on the hot seat, not even close.

The Steelers actually change QBs quite a bit. Since 95 its been O'Donnell, Tomczak, Kordell, Tomczak, Kordell, Maddox, Ben. I'm not sure why you would dispute this.

You forgot Kent Graham. I wish I could.

That dude was fast as heck...

 

[rabidfireweasel]

It is all internet gossip, but I have heard that Big Ben is not a huge practice guy or game film guy. That will work as long as you are winning. However, with a new coach, if they don't win and he doesn't study/perform- they will go back to running and relying on D.

I don't think he is a buy low. I think give his injuries and uncertainty about his recovery from them, I think his value is about right.

 

[BGP]

you make him out to be a bust on the level of Tim Couch or Joey Harrington.

Actually I said Ben should be a decent starting NFL QB. But that's IF he can stay healthy. If I had to guess, I don't think he will be benched. But I also don't think it is impossible, either. There's risk here.

 

[Irish]

you make him out to be a bust on the level of Tim Couch or Joey Harrington.

Actually I said Ben should be a decent starting NFL QB. But that's IF he can stay healthy. If I had to guess, I don't think he will be benched. But I also don't think it is impossible, either. There's risk here.

should be....IF...had to guess...don't think he will get benched.....don't think it is impossible either.You sure do go out on a big limb with your predictions. That way in YOUR mind you are never wrong.

 

[BGP]

you make him out to be a bust on the level of Tim Couch or Joey Harrington.

Actually I said Ben should be a decent starting NFL QB. But that's IF he can stay healthy. If I had to guess, I don't think he will be benched. But I also don't think it is impossible, either. There's risk here.

should be....IF...had to guess...don't think he will get benched.....don't think it is impossible either.You sure do go out on a big limb with your predictions. That way in YOUR mind you are never wrong.

No-one can know for sure if a guy will get injured. No-one can know for sure if Ben will stop throwing picks. As a fantasy GM you can just go by the talent you see and risks apparent. Ben has the talent to be a starting QB. He's got more talent than Couch or Harrington. But he has risk based on past history. He gets hurt a lot. He led the NFL in picks last year. Can't be ignored.

 

[BGP]

you make him out to be a bust on the level of Tim Couch or Joey Harrington.

Actually I said Ben should be a decent starting NFL QB. But that's IF he can stay healthy. If I had to guess, I don't think he will be benched. But I also don't think it is impossible, either. There's risk here.

should be....IF...had to guess...don't think he will get benched.....don't think it is impossible either.You sure do go out on a big limb with your predictions. That way in YOUR mind you are never wrong.

The funny thing is just a few hours ago I was criticized in the FFA for seeing everything as black and white:

I don't know. I do know your approach to the FFA seems to mirror your approach to other issues. You have a black and white view in a landscape dominated by gray.

And now, in this thread, I'm criticized for seeing shades of gray.

 

[Rozelle]

4. Big Ben is underrated as a passing QB

Most definately!

Ben is a pure passer! If Pittsburgh opens up the offense some, he will surprise some people with his passing numbers.

2003 Miami, OH stats:

342-495 (a 69.1 completion pct.)

Passed for 4,486 yards, (320.4 ypg.)

and 37 TD's to 10 INT's

Set Miami single-season records for pass completions (342), passing touchdowns (37) and passing yardage (4,486) while directing the most potent offense in MAC and Miami history.

Terrorized UCF for 327 yards and five passing TDs, despite playing only one play in the second half.

Played arguably the best game of his career in the MAC Championship game, completing 26-of-35 passes for 440 yards and four touchdowns, breaking the MAC Championship game record for passing yards .

 

[-OZ-]

I see a borderline QB1 in this years redraft (10-12 area), but I can see as high as QB6 or 7 in a dynasty format. The kids only going to get better.

FF wise I really don't care for him too much and think he's average.NFL-wise I was plenty impressed with his leadership ability and ability under pressure as a rook but last year....well those great intangibles weren't as good. I'm curious what 07 will bring.

As long as Pittsburgh prides itself on running behind a tough as nails OL, FF wise I don't really know what you Ben fans get all excited about.

I find it interesting how we can see the same things and come out with different results.We all saw him struggle. He went through a start of a season that would make many players either quit or stop working as hard. He overcame adversity. Call me dramatic, but I like that in a player and think it bodes well for the future.

Ben will probably never be a top 2 FF QB, but he can follow Tom Brady's career, and I'll take that.

It almost appears like you give him credit for persevering yet ignore that he struggled even though you mentioned it. I don't think he's anything like Brady, he's more Simms like to me.

How am I ignoring it? I flat out said he struggled. Let's see what happens to you after almost killing yourself (in a stupid accident), then undergoing an emergency surgery, then taking twice as many sacks as previous years. All things considered, IMO he came out of the year better than expected (as of week 1)By Simms I assume you mean Phil.

Among the league's all-time top 50

Pass attempts: 21

Completions: 25

Passing yards: 20

Passing TDs: 27

I could deal with that.

 

[Tau837]

4. Big Ben is underrated as a passing QB

Most definately!

Ben is a pure passer! If Pittsburgh opens up the offense some, he will surprise some people with his passing numbers.

2003 Miami, OH stats:

342-495 (a 69.1 completion pct.)

Passed for 4,486 yards, (320.4 ypg.)

and 37 TD's to 10 INT's

Set Miami single-season records for pass completions (342), passing touchdowns (37) and passing yardage (4,486) while directing the most potent offense in MAC and Miami history.

Terrorized UCF for 327 yards and five passing TDs, despite playing only one play in the second half.

Played arguably the best game of his career in the MAC Championship game, completing 26-of-35 passes for 440 yards and four touchdowns, breaking the MAC Championship game record for passing yards .

Yes, playing in the MAC and playing in the NFL are so similar...

 

[Bri]

I see a borderline QB1 in this years redraft (10-12 area), but I can see as high as QB6 or 7 in a dynasty format. The kids only going to get better.

FF wise I really don't care for him too much and think he's average.NFL-wise I was plenty impressed with his leadership ability and ability under pressure as a rook but last year....well those great intangibles weren't as good. I'm curious what 07 will bring.

As long as Pittsburgh prides itself on running behind a tough as nails OL, FF wise I don't really know what you Ben fans get all excited about.

I find it interesting how we can see the same things and come out with different results.We all saw him struggle. He went through a start of a season that would make many players either quit or stop working as hard. He overcame adversity. Call me dramatic, but I like that in a player and think it bodes well for the future.

Ben will probably never be a top 2 FF QB, but he can follow Tom Brady's career, and I'll take that.

It almost appears like you give him credit for persevering yet ignore that he struggled even though you mentioned it. I don't think he's anything like Brady, he's more Simms like to me.

How am I ignoring it? I flat out said he struggled. Let's see what happens to you after almost killing yourself (in a stupid accident), then undergoing an emergency surgery, then taking twice as many sacks as previous years. All things considered, IMO he came out of the year better than expected (as of week 1)By Simms I assume you mean Phil.

Among the league's all-time top 50

Pass attempts: 21

Completions: 25

Passing yards: 20

Passing TDs: 27

I could deal with that.

Hard to word, sorry. I guess for me struggling should cancel out overcoming as one is a byproduct of the other. Phil's season stats were never all that hot(maybe 200-250 a game not 300) but he was a chain mover when he needed to be and quite accurate. I think that's Ben's game too. Despite the previous post about his college stats he doesn't look comfy, to me, slinging it and the big increase in INTs last year somewhat proves that point.

He's very good for Pittsburgh so long as they stay with the traditional power offense behind an exceptional OL, don't get me wrong. For FF though I'd rather a slinger shooting for 300 every week.

 

[-OZ-]

It almost appears like you give him credit for persevering yet ignore that he struggled even though you mentioned it.

How am I ignoring it? I flat out said he struggled. Let's see what happens to you after almost killing yourself (in a stupid accident), then undergoing an emergency surgery, then taking twice as many sacks as previous years. All things considered, IMO he came out of the year better than expected (as of week 1)

Hard to word, sorry. I guess for me struggling should cancel out overcoming as one is a byproduct of the other.

Ok, I just look to the reason for the struggle. We all face adversity, how you overcome means a lot to me. Not that I draft a QB for his character, but IMO it shows that he won't "bust".

 

[Rozelle]

4. Big Ben is underrated as a passing QB

Most definately!

Ben is a pure passer! If Pittsburgh opens up the offense some, he will surprise some people with his passing numbers.

2003 Miami, OH stats:

342-495 (a 69.1 completion pct.)

Passed for 4,486 yards, (320.4 ypg.)

and 37 TD's to 10 INT's

Set Miami single-season records for pass completions (342), passing touchdowns (37) and passing yardage (4,486) while directing the most potent offense in MAC and Miami history.

Terrorized UCF for 327 yards and five passing TDs, despite playing only one play in the second half.

Played arguably the best game of his career in the MAC Championship game, completing 26-of-35 passes for 440 yards and four touchdowns, breaking the MAC Championship game record for passing yards .

Yes, playing in the MAC and playing in the NFL are so similar...

What was I thinking ...