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The dynasty point I was making was that Williams is essentially overvalued right now while Brown is essentially undervalued. So if you can get Brown cheap, get him (from whoever) and if you can get a good price for Williams, sell him.
Ronnie will be a beast from week 8 on...great second half coming!
I think they work him in slowly, using Ricky in the first few weeks, then pound the ball with Ronnie Brown
Exactly.
Really? I would think that how Ronnie would look against grocery baggers became irrelevant as of last season. I believe he was also relying on grocery baggers to block for him yesterday (and this was evident). I also saw nothing to suggest 14 carries was all he had in him.angman said:
The question on the table isn't "is he good", that was answered last season. It is "How's the knee?" and all we know is exactly what he said. It looks promising though.
He didn't say he could only handle 14 carries, he said all we saw was him handle 14 carries. Could he handle 25? Based on what we have seen the answer is still unknown. We can speculate, but he wasn't doing that. He was pointing out what we now know.
If you need '4th game of the preseason' evidence to know things, you don't know much and everything you do know is irreparably flawed. By your logic, we apparently don't know LT can handle a single carry after his knee injury last year. It's a silly concept and it is grasping at the straws of negativity. Ronnie Brown was tested last night, and he seemingly passed the test. There really is not much more to know. HTH
He is coming back from major knee surgery and a sprained finger that required a cast. I think most of us needed this game to know how close to 100% he looked given that at this stage in the pre-season the coaches can't really be trusted regarding these matters. Maybe you knew all you needed to know about his recovery in July, :( but I personally would like to see every bit I can in regards to this guy before I dub him all better.
No, I didn't. I still respectfully disagree that "all we know" after last night is he can handle 14 carries against grocers.Maybe you knew all you needed to know about his recovery in July,
I am very surprised at how many of you think Ricky is better than Ronnie Brown? Ronnie is still recovering and may already be better than Ricky (hard to tell yet), but by the end of the year Ronnie will simply be better. He runs with more power and is faster than Ricky. Honestly, Ricky is moving well and still has that bowling ball type of running, but hasn't shown great wiggle.I just don't see it the way most of you dogianmarco said:big0mar said:
Even if you think Ronnie > Ricky do you think that Ronnie for 23-30 carries a game is > Ronnie for 17-18 and Rickie for 10-12? It looks like running both would benefit the team and help Ronnie get back into full game shape.I am very surprised at how many of you think Ricky is better than Ronnie Brown? Ronnie is still recovering and may already be better than Ricky (hard to tell yet), but by the end of the year Ronnie will simply be better. He runs with more power and is faster than Ricky. Honestly, Ricky is moving well and still has that bowling ball type of running, but hasn't shown great wiggle.I just don't see it the way most of you dogianmarco said:big0mar said:
I think that 17-18 touches per game is probably too optimistic. The Dolphins are going to be behind a lot (increased Pass:Rush Ratio) and an inefficient offense (low number of total plays). Last year they ran the ball 389 times and 47 of those were QB runs. 15 carries per game represents 70% of the RB carries for that season. They should run with RBs more this year, but I don't expect a miraculous turnaround and Ricky Williams is a legitimate threat to Brown's carries and to a lesser extent, catches (RB receiving tends to decline earlier than rushing and we already saw William's receiving production drop in 2005).
The problem a lot of people have with Ronnie is they believe that represents his ceiling for as long as Ricky is healthy, and that the split could end up the other way around. I wouldn't mind having one of the two on my roster while things shake out, but not both at the cost right now. If one falls to my 9th or 10th round pick I'll snag him for sure.
Well, the dolphins being behind a lot is anyone's guess, but if/when they are, they still dont have a choice. Brown and Williams, along iwth OT Jake Long and OC Samson Satele are 4 of their very best players on the team. They have to rely on them and force the run even if it means punting more often. The alternative is trying to look like the Lions from last year. For the fourth quarter, im with you, down by 10 or more they will be in desparation mode. But NFL games are usually closer than that and this is not the 2007 team, which did keep things close with Trent Green under center.
If I am the Dolphins...yes. I could even see more of a 40/60 (Ricky more) for the beginning of the year, but towards the end Ronnie's talent will come out a head and he will get more carries because he is better.Even if you think Ronnie > Ricky do you think that Ronnie for 23-30 carries a game is > Ronnie for 17-18 and Rickie for 10-12? It looks like running both would benefit the team and help Ronnie get back into full game shape.I am very surprised at how many of you think Ricky is better than Ronnie Brown? Ronnie is still recovering and may already be better than Ricky (hard to tell yet), but by the end of the year Ronnie will simply be better. He runs with more power and is faster than Ricky. Honestly, Ricky is moving well and still has that bowling ball type of running, but hasn't shown great wiggle.I just don't see it the way most of you dogianmarco said:big0mar said:
Nothing circumstantial? Were they both given the same "types" of touches? thx.
I am a Brown owner and have been critical of Ricky this year, and while I agree in general with this assessment, I think it needs clarification.Ronnie did run with more wiggle and acceleration--he looked better when there was a decent hole. But Ricky looked stronger and ran really hard even when there was no hole. He always seemed to fall forward for an extra yard or two.If I were coach I would continue to use them both; I would use Ricky more early in the game to tire the defense out and I would use Ricky on first day, short yardage situations, and goal line. But I would use Ronnie on second and third down where we needed more than five yards and I would use him more in the second half.I still think Brown is the dynasty option because I doubt Ricky can run the way he can at his age without getting hurt for too long. But right now Ricky is more valuable and they are both effective.
I didn't keep a count or anything, but it seemed like a majority of Ricky's touches were in typical running situations whereas Ronnie's were in less obvious running situations. It also seemed like the Jets defensive players were pretty dialed in to giving Ricky the business. There were at least a couple plays after which it appeared Jets defenders were going out of their way to talk trash to Ricky. Maybe just to get in his head since he's not the most stable guy in the world.
I was just disappointed that I never got a chance to see Ricky get to the 2nd level of the defense to see if he has any top end speed left - but the fact he couldn't get there is a bit of a red flag for him.Then again I expect the Jets D to be greatly improved this year in general, so it remains to be seen how telling his lack of performance is.But right now Ronnie > Ricky in terms of how they looked in the 1st game.Seems about right. Thought Ronnie ran just as hard, just seemd to "find" lanes and holes much better than Ricky. I just don't see Ricky being able to create for himself or setup pursuing LB's crashing down the line anymore. Not sure if he's just lost this or what, but it didn't seem to be there in this game. I'd agree that for the next few weeks the split should probably stay the same, if Ronnie really does need it. The guy has looked healthy, in shape, and productive. So, I guess is a coaching call on his health; to me, he is clearly the better RB and gives them a much better chance to advance the ball and win games.
I agree, they both had their moments when they ran hard but overall they both got stuffed all day. It was interesting how often they shifted Ricky out to a wide out, I don't remember that happening last year with Ronnie and it could create some favorable match-ups.
The reason IMO neither put up great yards was not that they didn't run well; I think they both looked good running. But until Miami can put up a decent resemblance to a passing threat teams will stack the box, and that is what the Jets did. I was disappointed that Ginn didn't do better and that they didn't use him more. He is still a bit raw in his pass routes but he is their most talented Wr. I didn't see any other WR doing better and I didn't see them passing very well. They have to find a way to be more effective passing or neither of these guys are going to be much good for fantasy this year.
Sounds like last year, Ronnie did pretty well. I think we will see much better games from both of them. Neither can be counted on for RB#2 numbers this year but either are a good RB#3 or flex as either could have a good game any given week.
One thing that stood out to me is that Pennington still stinks. His throws are terrible and he has little to no shot at going deep. This pretty much minimizes one of Ginn's major strengths and lets the entire defense not have to worry about anything 20 yards beyond the line of scrimmage - which also kills the run game. Pennington couldn't even hit the short stuff consistently, usually throwing in the dirt. Pennington will make the Dolphins skill guys about as useful as the Jets skill guys were last year - which wasn't great.
He was 60.4% completion rate (eta with a long of only 24 - yikes)...but I do understand that the statlines don't always tell the whole story. All of the negatives you list for Ginn are probably what will keep Fasano in games as a nice sleeper TE.
