Funny, if it happened to Brady instead of McNabb you'd be leading the charge for his head!
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Roy Williams suspended 1 game (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Blue-Kun
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Funny, if it happened to Brady instead of McNabb you'd be leading the charge for his head!
Statcruncher
Footballguy
Roy Williams is a punk who established a name by blowing up RB's in run support. Fortunately for him the hype masked his inability to cover for years. His continued violation of a rule implemented because of him is a black mark on the NFL and a testament to his integrity. I think a 1 game suspension is ridiculously leniant and would prefer to see the man never play in the NFL again. This is the 3rd year the "Roy Williams" rule has been in effect and this is his 3rd fined violation this year alone. It's time to admit he won't change and burn him for the good of the league.
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Limp Ditka
Footballguy
This reading thing; you're not very good at it, are you?Funny, if it happened to Brady instead of McNabb you'd be leading the charge for his head!
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
Then why did you say it? I could understand if you couldn't care less, but since you could, I find that to be unremarkable.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
This reading thing; you're not very good at it, are you?Funny, if it happened to Brady instead of McNabb you'd be leading the charge for his head!
He just saw a Pats avatar and figured the worst
mad sweeney
Footballguy
The NFL wimped out on this one big time. He's already been fined twice and gotten away with several uncalled HCs which the league must've figured weren't blatant enough to suspend him. But they promised a big fine and suspensions for the next incident and all they've basically done is fine him 35K, which was really just the next progression of fines for his chart. And given him a week off to rest for the playoffs. Sure Dallas is working for the HFA throughout but their next opponent isn't a world beater. They barely squaeaked by a sleepwalking Seattle team, I think the Cowboys can handle them just fine. So Roy flagrantly continues to endanger the safety of other players and all they do is basically give him a fine. Thumbs down to the Sherrif, beat up some strippers and you're gone for the season, but continue with flagrant intent to inure penalties and you get a slap on the wrist. He should've gotten multiple games and/or a huge fine, because obviously these trifling fines aren't going to stop him.
And didn't Goodell say that he wanted refs to eject players for flagrant HCs? That was about as flagrant as can be and while it was happening I had visions of another lost McNabb season and was quite surprised that he showed no ill effect. I was surprised he wasn't ejected, same with one of the Chargers last week on Chris Brown.
Hit em hard, but hit em fair. Or make it like hockey where you take one of mine to the locker room on a cart, we'll take one of yours strapped to a stretcher. Whoever up there said that this bush league stuff wouldn't happen if the Ditkas and Joneses were still around was dead on. If the league is going to be soft on calling this play (which they have been after the first few weeks) then let the players take care of it, send in an enforcer. Next time Williams has a loose ball I hope someone snaps his legs with a HC tackle and then gets a $15,000 fine that they pay in cash out of their wallet. The way that guy whines after a flagrant foul is just plain woman like.
And didn't Goodell say that he wanted refs to eject players for flagrant HCs? That was about as flagrant as can be and while it was happening I had visions of another lost McNabb season and was quite surprised that he showed no ill effect. I was surprised he wasn't ejected, same with one of the Chargers last week on Chris Brown.
Hit em hard, but hit em fair. Or make it like hockey where you take one of mine to the locker room on a cart, we'll take one of yours strapped to a stretcher. Whoever up there said that this bush league stuff wouldn't happen if the Ditkas and Joneses were still around was dead on. If the league is going to be soft on calling this play (which they have been after the first few weeks) then let the players take care of it, send in an enforcer. Next time Williams has a loose ball I hope someone snaps his legs with a HC tackle and then gets a $15,000 fine that they pay in cash out of their wallet. The way that guy whines after a flagrant foul is just plain woman like.
redman
Footballguy
He's grabbing the back of the jersey. sheesh what a bunch of sissy'sHmmm... yeah - let's bring back the chop block too... and blows to the head... yeah that would be cool...ridiculousGoodell should have them take off the pads and play two-hand touch so nobody gets hurt.
Hey look, two fat doofuses behind computer keyboards talking tough about NFL football! Impressive!
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
If I recall correctly, Tillman brought down Ferguson with a horse collar tackle at the one on that long run tonight when Ferguson broke a tackle.
Not saying that Roy Williams didn't get what was coming from him -- IMO I think he deserves much more given his countless infractions. Just trying to point out that while the spotlight really gets fixed on Williams for this, it happens almost every week in the NFL.
ETA: Just watched the highlights on ESPN and confirmed. Also seemed like a defensive player tried to take down ADP with a horse collar tackle on one of his big runs when Minny was backed deep into their own territory. Defender's hand was clearly going inside the neck hole, not just trying to grab the scruff of the jersey. Maybe this happens multiple times per GAME, let alone per weekend, let alone by Williams alone.
Not saying that Roy Williams didn't get what was coming from him -- IMO I think he deserves much more given his countless infractions. Just trying to point out that while the spotlight really gets fixed on Williams for this, it happens almost every week in the NFL.
ETA: Just watched the highlights on ESPN and confirmed. Also seemed like a defensive player tried to take down ADP with a horse collar tackle on one of his big runs when Minny was backed deep into their own territory. Defender's hand was clearly going inside the neck hole, not just trying to grab the scruff of the jersey. Maybe this happens multiple times per GAME, let alone per weekend, let alone by Williams alone.
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Never the same bad wide receiver?Tyrone Calico was never the same.What career has Roy ended?Just curious why you feel this way. Williams has a history of breaking legs and careers by employing this tactic.ridiculous
redman
Footballguy
If the point is that Williams is not the only perpetrator, then I don't think anyone is arguing that. He's the reason why the rule was implemented, however, and he's the only player I can think of who routinely uses this maneuver as a means of tackling a ball-carrier. Moreover, he's the only guy I can think of who has used his body mass during this type of tackle to fall onto the backs of the ball carrier's legs. Every other player I've seen do it has appeared to me to do it inadvertantly.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
It's not just grabbing by the back of the neck, it's the way you use your weight to drag the guy down. I only saw the Ferguson play once and it didn't seem like it to me at the time, if I see it again I may change my mind. It often goes uncalled, as I thought the HC on Chris Brown vs the Chargers last Sunday was pretty blatant and there was no call, but a fine came later. And in recent weeks I thought I saw up to 3 times in one game Roy HC someone and got no flag and no fine. There must be some wording in the definition that I am not clear on. I do know that the refs should've kicked Roy out for that blatant HC yesterday and even though they suspended him a game they wussed out on doing something effective to stop it. I'll lay odds that Roy does it again within 2 games of being back.It happens a few times a week I think, but it also happens a few times by Roy alone every week too. I'm gonna research the rule to find out why many of what I think are HCs are not called and later not fined,
redman
Footballguy
I know one area of potential ambiguity is the distinction between grabbing the jersey collar (permitted) and grabbing the shoulder pads insde the collar (not permitted). They often look very much alike.
People bash his coverage skills and I agree, but Roy is awesome against the run and intimidates with his big hits. I really hope he breaks this bad horse collar habit. I really am happy about him being taken out more on passing downs now as well.and maybe if mcnabb was faster he wouldn't get tackledat least this will make cowboys fans realize just how important he is to this team.
I believe he broke TO's leg with a horse collar tackle. It is about time he gets suspended.
Also - I believe the original rule was grabbing the pads or the collar of the pads when it was first started two years ago. I believe that this yea they expanded the rule to include any part of the jersey as well.
It is a dirty tackle and I am glad to see him finally get punished. The guy just doesn't get it. Maybe a 4 game suspension next time might get his attention.
Also - I believe the original rule was grabbing the pads or the collar of the pads when it was first started two years ago. I believe that this yea they expanded the rule to include any part of the jersey as well.
It is a dirty tackle and I am glad to see him finally get punished. The guy just doesn't get it. Maybe a 4 game suspension next time might get his attention.
One game seems exactly right on this. Fines weren't making the point. Now a 1 game suspension without pay is the next step.
Seems logical to me.
And yes, I've railed on Williams for years on this. I think he does it on purpose. The ironic thing is that the one he got the harshest punishment for was actually one of the least offensive horsecollars he's done. He normally makes a clear effort to throw his shins into the back of the calves of the guys he's tackling.
If this had been the legbreaker version, he likely would've received more games. But for this instance, punishment seems exactly right. Probably a little more aggressive even than what I would have expected.
J
Seems logical to me.
And yes, I've railed on Williams for years on this. I think he does it on purpose. The ironic thing is that the one he got the harshest punishment for was actually one of the least offensive horsecollars he's done. He normally makes a clear effort to throw his shins into the back of the calves of the guys he's tackling.
If this had been the legbreaker version, he likely would've received more games. But for this instance, punishment seems exactly right. Probably a little more aggressive even than what I would have expected.
J
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Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I completely agree. He's been warned and fined plenty of times. This suspension hits him in the pocket book as well as doesn't allow him to play. With Dallas now tied with Green Bay, they can't afford to lose so this game certainly means more now than it would have if Dallas would have beaten Philadelphia.I completely support the decision and either Williams needs to find another way to bring down offensive players or he'll be suspended more games in the future, costing him hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Duk
Footballguy
There goes that whole member number theory.He was leading the charge for his head McFly. You must have missed it. I admit he was sending his message in code - English - I assume to confuse 90% of the planet. Unfortunately for him, I know this language and was able to decode his cryptic message. When you are unable to understand the language you are reading there is no shame in asking for help. Don't get frustrated and roll your eyes, English is a tough language to grasp.Hang in there little one.Funny, if it happened to Brady instead of McNabb you'd be leading the charge for his head!
Joe pretty much nails it. The guy is a dirty player, one game is about right. There's not a whole lot to argue about on this one. Roy just has no regard for his fellow players. Why are short people so angry.
fatness
Footballguy
So Williams will miss the next game and be back for the Redskin game. If he horsecollars someone during that game and is ejected, I could see the Redskins throwing the challenge flag. "We want him left in the game. He can't cover."
westbrook36
Footballguy
They should kick that fat dirty piece of garbage out of the NFL.
What jumps out at me is, Williams horsecollars him, gets up, nearly gets hit with 3 different flags from 3 different officials and is irate that he got called for it. Obviously the guy doesn't seem to understand he's doing anything wrong, good thing he'll have an extra week to review the tape.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Come on, this is a serious thread.
1 game suspension is pushing the limits of tough, kicking him out? are you serious. if that's the case Ricky Williams, Pac Man Jones, Chris Henry..ect should be kicked out as well amirite? or is your eagles love and cowboys hate getting in the way of rational thought?
Statcruncher
Footballguy
To me it seems that Roy Williams is not out on an island in Dallas so he may not feel the need to change. Head coach Wade Phillips in the presser was about as milk toast as a person can be. He never stated Roy did anything wrong and didn't expect any league action but he did point out it used to be legal and Roy is "just going to have to learn to do it different".
Owner Jerry Jones (who was 1 of only 5 people to vote against the horse collar rule) just stated on Dallas radio that he was about to get on a conference call with Williams and Goodell and express his displeasure about the unfairness of the suspension. To paraphrase he said fining is a tried and true method of punishment but suspension is extremely excessive. I like Jerry as a person but he is nothing more than a greedy owner who puts cash (see pioneering team endorsements, spearheading the NFL network money grab blunder, moving the Cowboys to a place where the public would pay for part of the new stadium) far ahead of morality or justice. If you're a Cowboy fan that's great as he's a mercenary selling out for the Cowboys and truly wants to win, but he's a big part of the reason the 'Boys are pretty well disliked.
Owner Jerry Jones (who was 1 of only 5 people to vote against the horse collar rule) just stated on Dallas radio that he was about to get on a conference call with Williams and Goodell and express his displeasure about the unfairness of the suspension. To paraphrase he said fining is a tried and true method of punishment but suspension is extremely excessive. I like Jerry as a person but he is nothing more than a greedy owner who puts cash (see pioneering team endorsements, spearheading the NFL network money grab blunder, moving the Cowboys to a place where the public would pay for part of the new stadium) far ahead of morality or justice. If you're a Cowboy fan that's great as he's a mercenary selling out for the Cowboys and truly wants to win, but he's a big part of the reason the 'Boys are pretty well disliked.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
The officiating in that game was horrible -- the Williams HC tackle was one of the few things they got right. It was textbook.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Kick him out may be a bit harsh...but others have been basically blackballed from the league in the past for the way they went about things...see Chuck Cecil.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Its not just grabbing the jersey/neck/horse collar...its grabbing it...then dropping all your weight down to pull the guy.Tillman grabbed it to slow Ferguson down...and wrapped him up more. He did not just drop his feet out and yank down on the jersey with all of his weight...that is the distinction.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Incorrect. The jersey collar is also illegal in a HC tackle.d) grabbing the inside collar of the back of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside collar of the
side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling down the runner. This does not
apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket.
Crusaderfan
Footballguy
He would excel in a flag football league. He's the best at grabbing fabric.He's grabbing the back of the jersey. sheesh what a bunch of sissy'sHmmm... yeah - let's bring back the chop block too... and blows to the head... yeah that would be cool...ridiculous
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Watch the replay.
Roy could have brought McNabb down with a clean hard tackle from the waist or lower, in fact it seems more difficult to try and horse collar the player. The odds of missing the tackle are greater.
When you watch you will see that McNabbs legs did not catch the turf..if they had Williams would have rolled right up on them and McNabb would have been injured.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9APM6mNVCVY
Roy could have brought McNabb down with a clean hard tackle from the waist or lower, in fact it seems more difficult to try and horse collar the player. The odds of missing the tackle are greater.
When you watch you will see that McNabbs legs did not catch the turf..if they had Williams would have rolled right up on them and McNabb would have been injured.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9APM6mNVCVY
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I tend to believe it is "he can't", these guys react, they have split seconds to do so and have been hard wired to react to situations.The fact that Roy seems to be out of position alot probably contributes to him reaching out for the back of the player, but he's paid to tackle that player and it is instinctual in him to do in a way the NFL has deemed dangerous.Anyone watch him in college? Did he tackle that way then as well?Dallas should make him a Nickel LB and be done with him as a safetyAs for how it helps/hinders Dallas this week, Carolina will be running the ball and in that case it hurts.
I agree with the suspension and if this does not teach him his lesson he should get a longer suspension next time. Roy is just plain dirty. I even recall a Pro-Bowl game from a few years ago were he made a helmet to helmet hit on a defenseless Rod Smith and I think knocked him out. In a Pro-Bowl game!
Also relating to Williams falling on a players legs. I did not catch this and don't know if any of you did but in today's Dallas Morning News article about this suspension Tim Cowlishaw stated that Williams actually did another horse collar tackle in the game against another Eagles player(He does not name who) and in this case he jumped on the back of the players legs while pulling him out of bounds. Sorry I don't have link since I got this out of my morning paper but you can look it up.
Also relating to Williams falling on a players legs. I did not catch this and don't know if any of you did but in today's Dallas Morning News article about this suspension Tim Cowlishaw stated that Williams actually did another horse collar tackle in the game against another Eagles player(He does not name who) and in this case he jumped on the back of the players legs while pulling him out of bounds. Sorry I don't have link since I got this out of my morning paper but you can look it up.
Maik Jeaunz
Footballguy
I think if he continues to horsecollar guys, even after fines and suspensions, some team should send a backup TE out on one play and do it to him. take the penalty, take the ejection, take the fine. it's a dirty play, and he's been warned enough.
if it were baseball, he would have already eaten a fastball.
if it were baseball, he would have already eaten a fastball.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
My take as a Cowboy fan:
A good rule and a needed one.
Roy is NOT a mean spirited or dirty player.
I am OK with the suspension, but don't like the double standard for other Personal Foul penalties. I am sure there are multiple players that have numerous Hit out of bounds or late hits fouls. Is the NFL going to suspend for that too? They need to make the HorseCollar an ejection foul. You do it, you are gone for the rest of the game. If it is more important than the Personal fouls then treat it differently across the board.
A good rule and a needed one.
Roy is NOT a mean spirited or dirty player.
I am OK with the suspension, but don't like the double standard for other Personal Foul penalties. I am sure there are multiple players that have numerous Hit out of bounds or late hits fouls. Is the NFL going to suspend for that too? They need to make the HorseCollar an ejection foul. You do it, you are gone for the rest of the game. If it is more important than the Personal fouls then treat it differently across the board.
Mr Capicollo
Footballguy
If Roy is not \"a mean spirited or dirty player\", how come he continues to violate a rule that he was primarily responsible for instituting? Is he that bad/clueless that he can\'t correct this habit? As for the other fouls you\'re talking about suspending for, how many of those have caused season ending injuries as often the horse collar has?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Sorry, but Williams continues to commit a dangerous penalty, long after a rule was put in place because of him. He is a dirty player, plain and simple.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I say that for now on whenever he does it the opposing team gets license to do it back during that or the next meeting between the teams with no penalty no matter the ramifications. That would put a stop to it damn quickly. Imagine the horror in Wade's of Jerrah's face (well Wade's since Jerrah no longer has facial expressions) when teams had license to role up on T.O., Witten, or Romo.
MG345
Footballguy
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phthalatemagic
Footballguy
I guess this begs the question, how milk toast is that???
Mr Capicollo
Footballguy
crnerblitz
Footballguy
Are we bringing back The Clothes Line? That would be sweeeeet! That and free Battery night would be the bomb.
Not!
Not!
VaCatFan
Footballguy
TO has a response:
Now a teammate, Owens said Wednesday he had flashbacks to his own gruesome injury when Williams collared McNabb.
"It took my breath away," T.O. said.
Owens said Williams should know better by now, especially because the rule was put in place due to his actions. He hopes this convinces Williams to find a new way to stop ballcarriers.
"The way he tackles is very, very dangerous," Owens said. "I think he needs to do something to kind of correct that. Other than that, Roy is a great guy. But the thing is, you have to be safe. I know this is a violent game, but you have to tackle safely. ... You don't want to end a guy's career. And to tackle someone in that manner, it's just not right."
Now a teammate, Owens said Wednesday he had flashbacks to his own gruesome injury when Williams collared McNabb.
"It took my breath away," T.O. said.
Owens said Williams should know better by now, especially because the rule was put in place due to his actions. He hopes this convinces Williams to find a new way to stop ballcarriers.
"The way he tackles is very, very dangerous," Owens said. "I think he needs to do something to kind of correct that. Other than that, Roy is a great guy. But the thing is, you have to be safe. I know this is a violent game, but you have to tackle safely. ... You don't want to end a guy's career. And to tackle someone in that manner, it's just not right."
