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LT has drug more than his fair share of guys in his prime. However, Jamal Lewis as a comparison minus the happy toes tiny steps might work...Turner would be the best example. Greene also gets to learn from Jones last year who he said taught him all he knows, and LT this year.
LT wants the ring buddy... he knows his role
Seat warmer is what it will be come week 3. LT fell off the cliff already and is a year older, the Jets would have done just as well picking up Shaun Alexander at this point, they are both well done.
right...mendy SPLIT carries with pierre at illinois....barber SPLIT carries with maroney and spiller SPLIT carries with davis while they were there...lets first look at the fact that pierre maroney and davis are all better prospects than albert young...shonn greene did not split carries with him...he only saw the field when he was the only guy left. mendy was splitting carries his sophmore year spilller was playing significant time since his freshman year...and barber only played one year at minnesota and had 231 carriesMrTwo94 said:
It seems most Beanie fans are operating under the theory that talent far outweighs situation, whereas most Greene fans are operating under the theory that situation is more important than they're giving credit for, even in a dynasty.As such, most people that have Beanie #1 probably have Greene #3, and vice versa, leaving Matthews smack dab in the middle for almost everyone. He's kind of a combination of the other two. Better pedigree than Greene, but not as good as Beanie. Better situation than Beanie, but not as good as Greene's.
This actually illustrates SSOG's point pretty nicely. Gore is 27 years old. While his trade value is not what it once was, if you believe that Gore doesn't have 3 years left you can still move him for some pretty good value at this point in his career.Now imagine Gore is 30 instead of 27. What do you think you could get for him? Nothing.That is where Shonn Greene will be when he's at the stage of his career that Gore is at now.
I really don't know what all this talk here has to do with the topic at hand. I thought that Shonn Greene was one excellent player his last year at Iowa. He showed production and very good skills, if I recall he won the Doak Walker award, I'm not positive, I remember he was up for it and I thought he fully deserved to win that year as he was by far the best RB in the NCAA that year.
I dont think that is the basis for making a decision on moving a player.I think it's more likely the situation your team is in as a whole. If I am a contender today, Gore is more valuable on my roster than elsewhere. If it takes 2-3 years of rebuilding before my team is competitive, I make note of the hard miles on the Odometer for Gore and I dont build around Gore, I trade him away to restock the shelves.In this case, all 3 of the young RB's discussed above are young enough that you can build a fantasy team around them. but you must measure upside & risk.of the three, Green bears the least amount of risk because he has shown he can produce at a high level in the NFL. Neither of the other 2 RB's in question have done so yet, but I will make note that Wells has shown signs that he may be on the cusp of a breakout season playing for a team that is likely moving from a passing offense to a more balanced attack. So Beanie will likely get more work than last year. anyhow, your arguement that Green is to be avoided because he is 25 means nothing to me. I start to worry about age when the RB hits 27 or 28 if he has a history of injury, or at 29-30 if he does not.That doesnt mean my way of looking at things is any better than yours. I think it is just that I value experience more and you value youth more.
This Shtick is old and makes you look like a child.. Please spare us....edit to add.. Wells/Matthews in a landslide....Can I join your league?Billy Ball Thorton said:
How exactly did you measure their dedication?
Can we please slow down the THT Hall of Fame train for a few seconds and actually look at stats? Yes, THT was 2nd in the league in receptions in 2009, but he was also 2nd in the league in targets. Can we please hold off on calling him "one of the best receiving backs in the league" when he doesn't even have 100 career recptions yet? Hightower was also 21st in catch % and 51st in yards/reception among RBs in 2009. Want to know who some of the top 10 RBs in Y/rec were in 2009? (that had at least 10 receptions) - AP, CJ, Sproles, Mendy and Beanie Wells. ProfootballFocus also tracks YAC/rec - Hightower was 48th, Wells? 19th. ProFootballFocus also "grades out" RBs in various aspects of their game. Hightower graded out as the 57th best receiving RB - Wells was 18th.Also, I do find it funny that people suggest that Wells' value takes a hit because of a poor QB, but THT, the alleged "pass catching stud", his value somehow is immune - when it seems to me that at least on some level, a pass cathing RB would be more reliant on decent throws, not less.
I don't know how else to respond to this other than that you're still entirely missing the point trying to be made here.The things you're saying I'm saying, are not what I'm saying
lol...yea it was between him and javon ringer ...and greene didnt get any carries till his senior year, i was making the point that he must not be a very good talent if he couldnt beat out albert young for the starting job.
For what it's worth, I've tried to avoid giving any takes on Greene's ABSOLUTE value (i.e. where I have him ranked), sticking just to his RELATIVE value (i.e. where I have him ranked compared to Mathews and Wells). I mean, I could technically have Greene at #3 in my rankings and I'd still prefer Mathews and Wells if they were #1 and #2.With that said, you're right that I'm relatively cool on Greene. I'm not super-impressed with his body of work last year (hell, even Marcel Shipp has ended a season on a hot streak), and I don't think he's an elite talent. I think Rudi Johnson is an interesting comp because Rudi is pretty much the poster child for a mediocre talent who put up great numbers on the strength of his situation. Of course, Rudi was one of the lucky ones. Guys like Matt Forte, Steve Slaton, Kevin Smith, and Marshawn Lynch (all guys who were at one point in time considered top-12 to top-15 dynasty backs) clearly demonstrate the two primary risks associated with mediocre talents- either the situation worsens, or the team brings in competition. A highly talented back can beat out any competition the team brings in and can still produce in sub-par situations. A mediocre talent, on the other hand, can't weather either of those two storms. Their value is much more prone to just disappearing with little-to-no warning.TitansFan10 said:
My default position is always "paid professionals in the NFL know more than I do". There is sometimes evidence that can get me to move from my default position, but I operate under a general "when in doubt, assume the professionals know what they are doing" philosophy. As a result, the fact that Mathews was the #12 pick (higher pedigree than either of the others) is very telling to me. It means that an NFL GM (and one who has been praised for his drafting acumen for years) thinks that Mathews is the best talent of the bunch, and was willing to trade a king's ransom to get him despite RB being the most fungible position on the field. That earns him a whole lot of the benefit of the doubt.
I think you missed the point of that post- it wasn't about Evans situation at all. I thought his situation was likely to improve, but the real reason his numbers haven't been better is because, relatively speaking, he wasn't the talent that I thought he was. I was rating him as if he was a top-10, possibly even top-5 WR, when in reality he was just a top-20 or top-15 WR. The fact that his situation hasn't improved is unfortunate, but the "bad process" came in the talent evaluation.
But don't you value having the option? You might not want to move a 27 year old Gore, but you *CAN* move a 27 year old Gore. You could move him even easier if he was 25. That flexibility, that option, that ability to use him as an asset to improve your team has value. Three years from now, when Greene is 28, you won't have that option. That impacts his value, whether you want to admit it or not. I'm not saying that he's to be avoided because he's 25, I'm saying that he has less value because he's 25 than he would if he was 23. I don't know how anyone could possibly argue otherwise. If you were given a choice between two COMPLETELY IDENTICAL PLAYERS where the only difference was that one was 25 and the other was 23, wouldn't you take the one that was 23?I also question the idea that Greene carries the least risk. Why, because he had two and a half good games to end the year? Marcel Shipp once ended a season with 403/3 in three games. Was he low risk? Kevin Jones, Julius Jones, and William Green all were great over small samples, but they were hardly low-risk, either. I fail to see how Shonn Green's 844 career rushing yards (and 4 career receiving yards) make him lower risk than Beanie's 793 career rushing yards and 143 career receiving yards.
People typically refer to players by their age when the season starts. For instance Gore/Sjax are 26 but are often called 27 because that is what their age will be during the season. Same thing with Greene here.
i dont agree. Greene looked every bit as talented as Wells to me. Greene was also the top rated RB on the Jets draft board in 2009
I dont find it hard to believe. Greene wasnt exactly a chump at Iowa. He was also a great compliment to Washingtons skill set at the time he was drafted. I think the talent level between Wells and Greene is much closer than people are giving credit for. As for the Broncos....Dont recall them saying every or even most of their players graded out to a first rd. prospect
Greene was more agile at the combine and jumped better.
So you go by combine #'s?I can see that Beanie is more athletic than Greene.
Im not sure who is faster or more agile in a game while wearing pads. I can tell you this though Greene looked much more explosive to me on the field last season than he was ever given credit for coming out of college. The only question i have about Greene at this point is how he can hold up with a big workload. There isnt any doubt in my mind that the guy has tons of talent as a runner and if he can prove durable he will be a stud well into the future. I also love Beanie so im in no way knocking him at all. Im only stating that my opinion is that both RBs look to be very talented and are very close in that regard to me.
What a compelling contribution!!! Expand on your great contribution for us dummies who can't quite see your insightful comment.
Quit being dramatic. No one said hightower is a hall of fame running back. But if you think they are going to bench a guy that is coming off of a 62 catch season, you are fooling yourself. Wells will not have 300 touches. He will be spelled by hightower. Since Wells is clearly the better runner and Hightower has clearly proven to be an effective receiver, then how do you expect them to utilize Hightower? Thats right, on passing downs. Should I remind you that Michael Turner is acutally a good receiving back? Doesn't matter though because he's not used on passing downs. They have other backs that can catch well so they give Turner a breather on passing downs. If anyone drafts Wells on the assumption that he will post good receiving stats, or even the league average for a running back, then you are selling yourself short.
Michael Turner has had 22 receptions in his career. Did his career high of 6 make you say this? It's hard to take you seriously when you "Remind us" Turner is a good receiving back. Before you pull out the college card I looked it up and he had 43 receptions in 4 seasons.
yeah, but those guys were not running behind a road grader offensive line like Greene is.I'd bet money that you and me can rush for 1000 yards behind that line. and I'm not joking. Those guys are awesome.so regardless of what you think about the talent there, the system and personell make him a much lower risk than he would otherwise be.put a RB into a passing system, and his numbers will be mediocre. put him into a running system and his numbers become a lot better.That's where I'm coming from. The other issue is that RB's tend to have shorter careers, so in the case of younger prospects, I am more likely to look at short run potential and immediate return/production than with other positions and Greene provides that in spades compared to beanie and Matthews.
Funny to hear a Chargers fan calling the Jets a better situation than San Diego. Yeah, their offensive line is awesome, but Norv Turner is the patron saint of overworking RBs until they put up fantasy numbers way above their pay grade. Tomlinson finished 5th in rushing TDs last year. Fifth. As someone who presumably saw him play a lot, I'm sure you can agree that Tomlinson had *NO BUSINESS* putting up such respectable fantasy numbers last year. He played terribly, and yet he was still a very strong fantasy starter.
agreed...i am a beanie lover ! 
couldnt agree more!
