Sam Bankman-Fried (SBF) debacle with FTX (1 Viewer)

[KGB]

For those keeping score:

Madoff - 64 Billion
FTX - 32ish Billion

Madoff still the biggest ponzi on record….but after all the dust settles with the crypto casinos…..”Crypto” itself will prove to be the biggest destruction of peoples/funds/firms wealth in our history.

More is coming.

Sorry buddy. I love that you help us in stocks.

But crypto is here to stay. It's been like 20 years. It isn't going anywhere.

Pick a stock and a timeframe. I'll match with a crypto and you will lose.

Apple. I think will get into crypto. Besides that.



And I'll admit, you are smarter than me. You'll kill me in stock picks.

But crypto vs stocks. I'll win

 

[Joe Bryant]

@Joe Bryant , I was looking for your answer in the public poll and didn't see it. I'm wondering what your vote was? Apologies if I missed it, which is totally possible.

Thanks Krista. I didn't vote as I was mostly interested in what you folks thought. And I'm not sure how I feel.

I think I'm in the small minority that wasn't comfortable with it. My assumption (and it's purely that) is that she knew completely he would never want this conversation to be public. (as he said the next day). No person in their right mind would.

I think he forgot to say the magic words at the start for it being off the record.

I think if she would have asked him the question of if this was ok to publish, he would have said obviously no.

I totally get that it seems he's a terrible guy. And looks to be a criminal if the fraud or "hack" accusations are true.

But I think I go back to the idea if he's a good guy or a bad guy, the ethics are the same.

And I'm totally aware most everyone thinks I'm wrong there and I don't understand how it works. I understand exactly how it works. It's just how I saw it.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

If you are a public figure, journalists are not your friends. SBF failed to realize that, just as he failed to realize a lot of things about how to run a business.

 

[The Z Machine]

I'm not inclined to give a guy who has defrauded people out of BILLIONS! the benefit of the doubt or any slack on whether he asked for his statements to be off the record. He's now in the "find out" stage after living in the "mess around" stage for far too long.

 

[Todem]

For those keeping score:

Madoff - 64 Billion
FTX - 32ish Billion

Madoff still the biggest ponzi on record….but after all the dust settles with the crypto casinos…..”Crypto” itself will prove to be the biggest destruction of peoples/funds/firms wealth in our history.

More is coming.

Sorry buddy. I love that you help us in stocks.

But crypto is here to stay. It's been like 20 years. It isn't going anywhere.

Pick a stock and a timeframe. I'll match with a crypto and you will lose.

Apple. I think will get into crypto. Besides that.



And I'll admit, you are smarter than me. You'll kill me in stock picks.

But crypto vs stocks. I'll win

I did not say it’s going away…..but mark my word….it will go down as the biggest wealth destruction device in our history. That is what I said and stand by it.

And good luck beating equities over the very long term with crypto.

 

[massraider]

But I think I go back to the idea if he's a good guy or a bad guy, the ethics are the same

Which ethics?

It is not journalists' ethical responsibility to save someone from incriminating themselves.

This "ethical dilemma" is based on one concept (which does not create any ethical dilemma for a journalist):

According to SBF, he thought it was a private conversation (he didn't even use the phrase off the record). The answer to the inevitable follow up of why we should believe him is because no one in their right mind would admit to what he admitted to.

I would invite anyone to read those Yahoo Finance pieces I linked earlier. He has said some strange unusual things, and made comments that sure sounded like what he was doing was not on the up and up. There clearly wasn't a publicist within 20 miles of that Bahamas love shack he and his MIT kids were playing in. This whole thing went down, and he was playing word games on Twitter, spelling out "what happened" over a series of tweets. Weird.

It seems to me that applying common sense that we think any ordinary person would use here, is a mistake. He was naive, ate up the publicity, and said things he thought made him look good, that really did not. None of this creates an ethical question for a journalist.

 

[krista4]

@Joe Bryant , I was looking for your answer in the public poll and didn't see it. I'm wondering what your vote was? Apologies if I missed it, which is totally possible.

Thanks Krista. I didn't vote as I was mostly interested in what you folks thought. And I'm not sure how I feel.

I think I'm in the small minority that wasn't comfortable with it. My assumption (and it's purely that) is that she knew completely he would never want this conversation to be public. (as he said the next day). No person in their right mind would.

I think he forgot to say the magic words at the start for it being off the record.

I think if she would have asked him the question of if this was ok to publish, he would have said obviously no.

I totally get that it seems he's a terrible guy. And looks to be a criminal if the fraud or "hack" accusations are true.

But I think I go back to the idea if he's a good guy or a bad guy, the ethics are the same.

And I'm totally aware most everyone thinks I'm wrong there and I don't understand how it works. I understand exactly how it works. It's just how I saw it.

I don’t think you’re “wrong” even though I see it differently. I’m distinguishing journalistic ethics, where I think she’s in the clear, from purely personal ethics. And I completely agree that whether he’s a terrible guy has no bearing on the ethics.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. It gave me more to think about rather than seeing it as black-and-white.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks for the thoughtful response. It gave me more to think about rather than seeing it as black-and-white.

Thanks to you as well @krista4. I think it's an interesting issue.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'm not inclined to give a guy who has defrauded people out of BILLIONS! the benefit of the doubt or any slack on whether he asked for his statements to be off the record. He's now in the "find out" stage after living in the "mess around" stage for far too long.

This is a good point. Context should really matter here.

For example, say I'm sitting around my home, enjoying a Sunday afternoon of football. I get a phone call from a local reporter, asking me to respond to allegations that my wife has filed for divorce after a long history of domestic violence. (My wife is baking cookies upstairs with my daughter, we have a great relationship, with no history of violence of any kind). I am completely gobsmacked by this, fumble for words, and say something inartful about domestic violence. The reporter then runs a story entitled "Look at what this jerk said about battered women" based entirely on my quotes, and justifies it because in a moment of confusion I forgot to think about the implications of talking to a reporter. That seems like dirty pool.

That isn't what happened here. SBF is the subject of major story about financial fraud. He knows this. He can't possibly be surprised that media would be interested in what he's up to. He reaches out to a reporter to share his side of the story. That's on him, not the reporter who took his DMs.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

But I think I go back to the idea if he's a good guy or a bad guy, the ethics are the same

Which ethics?

It is not journalists' ethical responsibility to save someone from incriminating themselves.

This "ethical dilemma" is based on one concept (which does not create any ethical dilemma for a journalist):

According to SBF, he thought it was a private conversation (he didn't even use the phrase off the record). The answer to the inevitable follow up of why we should believe him is because no one in their right mind would admit to what he admitted to.

I would invite anyone to read those Yahoo Finance pieces I linked earlier. He has said some strange unusual things, and made comments that sure sounded like what he was doing was not on the up and up. There clearly wasn't a publicist within 20 miles of that Bahamas love shack he and his MIT kids were playing in. This whole thing went down, and he was playing word games on Twitter, spelling out "what happened" over a series of tweets. Weird.

It seems to me that applying common sense that we think any ordinary person would use here, is a mistake. He was naive, ate up the publicity, and said things he thought made him look good, that really did not. None of this creates an ethical question for a journalist.

Are we even sure SBF feels betrayed? The guy has tweeted through this whole thing.

His lawyers evidently gave him the best legal advice they could ("Shut the **** up or we quit), and he refused to listen.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

What I love about this whole thing is that some stories are like "wait until you hear about the wild sexual shenanigans the principles were involved in!" and the entire Twitterverse is like "Naw, I'm good dawg. No need to share."

 

[Monty Burns]

just goes to show how even a genius can be stupid

 

[Desert_Power]

Bankman-Fried's FTX, senior staff, parents bought Bahamas property worth $300 mln​

 

[Sand]

Bankman-Fried's FTX, senior staff, parents bought Bahamas property worth $300 mln​

We went from 120M to 300M real quick. This inflation thing is real.

I would like to see what a 10M condo on the Bahamas looks like, though. Gotta be pretty awesome.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

That isn't what happened here. SBF is the subject of major story about financial fraud. He knows this. He can't possibly be surprised that media would be interested in what he's up to. He reaches out to a reporter to share his side of the story. That's on him, not the reporter who took his DMs.

 

[KGB]

For those keeping score:

Madoff - 64 Billion
FTX - 32ish Billion

Madoff still the biggest ponzi on record….but after all the dust settles with the crypto casinos…..”Crypto” itself will prove to be the biggest destruction of peoples/funds/firms wealth in our history.

More is coming.

Sorry buddy. I love that you help us in stocks.

But crypto is here to stay. It's been like 20 years. It isn't going anywhere.

Pick a stock and a timeframe. I'll match with a crypto and you will lose.

Apple. I think will get into crypto. Besides that.



And I'll admit, you are smarter than me. You'll kill me in stock picks.

But crypto vs stocks. I'll win

I did not say it’s going away…..but mark my word….it will go down as the biggest wealth destruction device in our history. That is what I said and stand by it.

And good luck beating equities over the very long term with crypto.

Thank you for handling my statement with grace. It was a late nite

I do believe crypto played well, can outperform even blue chip stocks. But I should have worded differently.

Cheers to you my friend

 

[firstseason1987]

Have been following this closely, though I still don't really understand crypto. Fascinating story.

Same. Looking forward to the inevitable Netflix miniseries.

Not sure if this was covered in the other thread but Michael Lewis has been embed with FTX for 6 months apparently. A book is forthcoming.

Apple+ close to a deal on the movie rights

 

[The Z Machine]

Have been following this closely, though I still don't really understand crypto. Fascinating story.

Same. Looking forward to the inevitable Netflix miniseries.

Not sure if this was covered in the other thread but Michael Lewis has been embed with FTX for 6 months apparently. A book is forthcoming.

Apple+ close to a deal on the movie rights

How can I invest in that venture? Seems wayv less risky than crypto trading.

 

[KGB]

BTC $16442.

Show me 12K please! Then I will buy

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'd be interested in what folks from this thread thought about this question https://forums.footballguys.com/thr...n-fried-debacle-have-on-cypto-and-nft.807129/

 

[General Malaise]

For those keeping score:

Madoff - 64 Billion
FTX - 32ish Billion

Madoff still the biggest ponzi on record….but after all the dust settles with the crypto casinos…..”Crypto” itself will prove to be the biggest destruction of peoples/funds/firms wealth in our history.

More is coming.

Sorry buddy. I love that you help us in stocks.

But crypto is here to stay. It's been like 20 years. It isn't going anywhere.

Pick a stock and a timeframe. I'll match with a crypto and you will lose.

Apple. I think will get into crypto. Besides that.



And I'll admit, you are smarter than me. You'll kill me in stock picks.

But crypto vs stocks. I'll win

I did not say it’s going away…..but mark my word….it will go down as the biggest wealth destruction device in our history. That is what I said and stand by it.

And good luck beating equities over the very long term with crypto.

At least with (some) equities, I can get paid just owning them. Not aware of any income available holding crypto, but maybe I'm wrong?

 

[Todem]

For those keeping score:

Madoff - 64 Billion
FTX - 32ish Billion

Madoff still the biggest ponzi on record….but after all the dust settles with the crypto casinos…..”Crypto” itself will prove to be the biggest destruction of peoples/funds/firms wealth in our history.

More is coming.

Sorry buddy. I love that you help us in stocks.

But crypto is here to stay. It's been like 20 years. It isn't going anywhere.

Pick a stock and a timeframe. I'll match with a crypto and you will lose.

Apple. I think will get into crypto. Besides that.



And I'll admit, you are smarter than me. You'll kill me in stock picks.

But crypto vs stocks. I'll win

I did not say it’s going away…..but mark my word….it will go down as the biggest wealth destruction device in our history. That is what I said and stand by it.

And good luck beating equities over the very long term with crypto.

At least with (some) equities, I can get paid just owning them. Not aware of any income available holding crypto, but maybe I'm wrong?

There are exchanges/platforms that will pay you interest for certain crypto coins on deposit with them……so they can go leverage it and potentially go belly up like FTX.

 

[Joe Bryant]

BTC $16442.

Show me 12K please! Then I will buy

Is there something special or relevant to you on the 12,000 price point? Can you elaborate? Thanks.

 

[GreenNGold]

BTC $16442.

Show me 12K please! Then I will buy

Is there something special or relevant to you on the 12,000 price point? Can you elaborate? Thanks.

There is not, it is just basically the speculative consensus on what the next low might be. However, the real collapse in crypto is still coming, I'd urge anyone with significant net worth tied up in crypto to get out while you still can.

 

[KGB]

BTC $16442.

Show me 12K please! Then I will buy

Is there something special or relevant to you on the 12,000 price point? Can you elaborate? Thanks.

A Bunch of people have been calling it, but I think it has to do with BTC going down 90% or a certain number that its done before

 

[Desert_Power]

Why is this guy speaking at some $2499 plate event next week instead of being taken into custody? Meet him at the airport IMO

 

[The Big Donkey]

Why is this guy speaking at some $2499 plate event next week instead of being taken into custody? Meet him at the airport IMO

building the case imo. not sure why folks would pay that for a plate. guy likes to tweet/talk, let him bury himself with his own words.

 

[Dickies]

For those keeping score:

Madoff - 64 Billion
FTX - 32ish Billion

Madoff still the biggest ponzi on record….but after all the dust settles with the crypto casinos…..”Crypto” itself will prove to be the biggest destruction of peoples/funds/firms wealth in our history.

More is coming.

Sorry buddy. I love that you help us in stocks.

But crypto is here to stay. It's been like 20 years. It isn't going anywhere.

Pick a stock and a timeframe. I'll match with a crypto and you will lose.

Apple. I think will get into crypto. Besides that.



And I'll admit, you are smarter than me. You'll kill me in stock picks.

But crypto vs stocks. I'll win

I did not say it’s going away…..but mark my word….it will go down as the biggest wealth destruction device in our history. That is what I said and stand by it.

And good luck beating equities over the very long term with crypto.

At least with (some) equities, I can get paid just owning them. Not aware of any income available holding crypto, but maybe I'm wrong?

You can do it with crypto, but unlike an equity that shares a portion of profits from providing a product or service, in the crypto space they pay future investors’ deposits (ie ponzi).

 

[Desert_Power]

Why is this guy speaking at some $2499 plate event next week instead of being taken into custody? Meet him at the airport IMO

building the case imo. not sure why folks would pay that for a plate. guy likes to tweet/talk, let him bury himself with his own words.

Might be. I'm not a LawyerGuy but it seems odd to me. Bad optics for the NYT and the rest of the speakers there.

 

[massraider]

FTX’s Bahamas crypto empire: Stimulants, subterfuge and a spectacular collapse

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/11/24/ftx-bahamas-albany-fried/

Great read on the collapse from the Bahamas angle, and some more quotes from SBF, who gave some sociopathic answers. He shouldn't speak in public anymore

 

[massraider]

Sam Bankman-Fried: ‘Look, I Screwed Up’: Sam Bankman-Fried Is Challenged on the Collapse of FTX (Published 2022)

FTX, the crypto exchange Mr. Bankman-Fried founded, declared bankruptcy this month in a failure that wiped out billions of investor dollars. He said his lawyers did not want him to talk, but he answered questions at the DealBook Summit.

www.nytimes.com

His first live interview. Going on now. He's shifting blame to Alameda.

I think a big problem with SBF is he thinks being smarter than everyone else means you can outsmart everyone else.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Sam Bankman-Fried: ‘Look, I Screwed Up’: Sam Bankman-Fried Is Challenged on the Collapse of FTX (Published 2022)

FTX, the crypto exchange Mr. Bankman-Fried founded, declared bankruptcy this month in a failure that wiped out billions of investor dollars. He said his lawyers did not want him to talk, but he answered questions at the DealBook Summit.

www.nytimes.com

His first live interview. Going on now. He's shifting blame to Alameda.

I think a big problem with SBF is he thinks being smarter than everyone else means you can outsmart everyone else.

Why is this person giving interviews? I know he's fallen on hard times recently, but can he not afford an attorney? Or is his attorney just working on some other important case and forgot about this one?

 

[John123]

Sam Bankman-Fried: ‘Look, I Screwed Up’: Sam Bankman-Fried Is Challenged on the Collapse of FTX (Published 2022)

FTX, the crypto exchange Mr. Bankman-Fried founded, declared bankruptcy this month in a failure that wiped out billions of investor dollars. He said his lawyers did not want him to talk, but he answered questions at the DealBook Summit.

www.nytimes.com

His first live interview. Going on now. He's shifting blame to Alameda.

I think a big problem with SBF is he thinks being smarter than everyone else means you can outsmart everyone else.

Why is this person giving interviews? I know he's fallen on hard times recently, but can he not afford an attorney? Or is his attorney just working on some other important case and forgot about this one?

Why did Robert Durst give an interview and admit to murder? He was home free.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

For those keeping score:

Madoff - 64 Billion
FTX - 32ish Billion

Madoff still the biggest ponzi on record….but after all the dust settles with the crypto casinos…..”Crypto” itself will prove to be the biggest destruction of peoples/funds/firms wealth in our history.

More is coming.

Sorry buddy. I love that you help us in stocks.

But crypto is here to stay. It's been like 20 years. It isn't going anywhere.

Pick a stock and a timeframe. I'll match with a crypto and you will lose.

Apple. I think will get into crypto. Besides that.



And I'll admit, you are smarter than me. You'll kill me in stock picks.

But crypto vs stocks. I'll win

I did not say it’s going away…..but mark my word….it will go down as the biggest wealth destruction device in our history. That is what I said and stand by it.

And good luck beating equities over the very long term with crypto.

At least with (some) equities, I can get paid just owning them. Not aware of any income available holding crypto, but maybe I'm wrong?

Ignoring the answers with agendas that think exchanges = crypto (when real crypto is literally the opposite of exchanges/banks) the answer is yes.

In fact, the entire basis of proof of stake is that you put your crypto up to validate blockchain transactions and in exchange a portion of the fees generated on transactions is paid out to you.

The fact that people weren't able to answer that properly when proof of stake makes up the majority of crypto currencies is a good indication of how misunderstood crypto is, and how conflated it has become with speculative trading on exchanges. Doubly silly when you consider that the whole point of crypto is so things like Ftx and Celsius don't need to exist. They only exist in the forms they did because people are stupid and lazy and wanted to <Xzibit voice> crypto without learning about crypto so they gave their money to someone else to crypto their crypto for them. </Xzibit voice>

Then that person scammed them when literally the entire point of crypto is that (unlike fiat) you never have to let someone else hold it for you.

 

[massraider]

Why is this person giving interviews? I know he's fallen on hard times recently, but can he not afford an attorney? Or is his attorney just working on some other important case and forgot about this one?

He answered this question in the interview.
He is ignoring their advice.

 

[Whyatt]

Holy cow.

At this moment SBF is taking questions about the last days of FTX solvency in a Twitter Spaces - 39K listening

 

[krista4]

He gave an interview to George Stephanopoulos as well. Airing in two parts on ABC.

 

[massraider]

He gave an interview to George Stephanopoulos as well. Airing in two parts on ABC.

He's on a media tour like he was just released by kidnappers.

He was give a round of applause after his first interview yesterday. It's interesting that people are cutting him so much slack. Because I am not buying this uber-nerd, gosh, things really got messy routine.

 

[krista4]

He gave an interview to George Stephanopoulos as well. Airing in two parts on ABC.

Maybe relevant to @Joe Bryant 's poll about journalistic ethics...a journalist friend of mine was contacted by ABC two weeks ago to see if he could get close to SBF and convince him to talk with them. For a period of maybe 10 days, he ended up having a series of late-night phone calls with SBF and eventually traveled to the Bahamas to meet SBF and his family, finally convincing him to sit down for the Stephanopoulos interview. During that time, he didn't leak to anyone what he was working on nor has he spoken to the content of his conversations with SBF or his visits with him. He just let us know yesterday what was coming. I'm proud of his work on this!

 

[krista4]

He gave an interview to George Stephanopoulos as well. Airing in two parts on ABC.

He's on a media tour like he was just released by kidnappers.

He was give a round of applause after his first interview yesterday. It's interesting that people are cutting him so much slack. Because I am not buying this uber-nerd, gosh, things really got messy routine.

The bold is particularly insane.

 

[GreenNGold]

I'm surprised this complete fraud is still being given multiple platforms and spoken to like he has any credibility whatsoever.

 

[krista4]

Actual quotes: "I don’t know of times when I lied.” "I was as truthful as I’m knowledgeable to be."

My eyes just got lost in the back of my head.

 

[massraider]

Maybe relevant to @Joe Bryant 's poll about journalistic ethics...a journalist friend of mine was contacted by ABC two weeks ago to see if he could get close to SBF and convince him to talk with them. For a period of maybe 10 days, he ended up having a series of late-night phone calls with SBF and eventually traveled to the Bahamas to meet SBF and his family, finally convincing him to sit down for the Stephanopoulos interview. During that time, he didn't leak to anyone what he was working on nor has he spoken to the content of his conversations with SBF or his visits with him. He just let us know yesterday what was coming. I'm proud of his work on this!

Turns out, it would have been more impressive if your friend was able to convince him not to freaking talk.

 

[krista4]

Turns out, it would have been more impressive if your friend was able to convince him not to freaking talk.

So true!

 

[massraider]

I'm surprised this complete fraud is still being given multiple platforms and spoken to like he has any credibility whatsoever.

Here's a wacky thought:

What if people (media/whomever) don't really feel bad for his victims? With Madoff, his victims were little old Jewish couples. Easy to work up some tears. With FTX, maybe it's a bunch of Martin Shrkeli's with laser eyes avatars?

It would explain maybe pulling punches on SBF, which we are definitely seeing. Two part Good Morning America!

 

[The Big Donkey]

Here's a wacky thought:

What if people (media/whomever) don't really feel bad for his victims? With Madoff, his victims were little old Jewish couples. Easy to work up some tears. With FTX, maybe it's a bunch of Martin Shrkeli's with laser eyes avatars?

It would explain maybe pulling punches on SBF, which we are definitely seeing. Two part Good Morning America!

little old jewish couples? certainly that community was taken but your phrasing of it is, i don't know, wacky? No idea why SBF continues to speak on TV.

 

[Sabertooth]

Sam Bankman-Fried: ‘Look, I Screwed Up’: Sam Bankman-Fried Is Challenged on the Collapse of FTX (Published 2022)

FTX, the crypto exchange Mr. Bankman-Fried founded, declared bankruptcy this month in a failure that wiped out billions of investor dollars. He said his lawyers did not want him to talk, but he answered questions at the DealBook Summit.

www.nytimes.com

His first live interview. Going on now. He's shifting blame to Alameda.

I think a big problem with SBF is he thinks being smarter than everyone else means you can outsmart everyone else.

That is a great quote. Definitely filing that one away.

 

[FairWarning]

I'm surprised this complete fraud is still being given multiple platforms and spoken to like he has any credibility whatsoever.

Here's a wacky thought:

What if people (media/whomever) don't really feel bad for his victims? With Madoff, his victims were little old Jewish couples. Easy to work up some tears. With FTX, maybe it's a bunch of Martin Shrkeli's with laser eyes avatars?

It would explain maybe pulling punches on SBF, which we are definitely seeing. Two part Good Morning America!

I don’t think the media or our elected officials care about the victims unless they were affected.

 

[massraider]

Inside Sam Bankman-Fried’s Bahamian Penthouse After FTX’s Fall

Billions of dollars of customer money is missing, investigators are circling, and the 30-year-old ex-CEO admits his company broke its own rules.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Actual quotes: "I don’t know of times when I lied.” "I was as truthful as I’m knowledgeable to be."

My eyes just got lost in the back of my head.

So he’s basically using the Kenneth Lay defense: “hey, I didn’t knowingly engage in fraud! I was just a completely incompetent CEO!”