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San Francisco 49ers 2013 thread (SEE NEW 2014 THREAD) (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Wingnut
- Start date
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
So who do you think has the best value in redraft and dynasty out of Patton, Moore, and Baldwin? It seems like all of them have potential, and are getting reps. Any thoughts?
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
anyone? Who will perform the best out of Patton, Moore and Baldwin?
Moore will probably get the most snaps but I doubt he is fantasy relevant. Patton has the most upside. These guys will all be hurt when Kyle Williams and Manningham get healthy.
Spin
Footballguy
Paryls Haralson traded to the Saints for a 7th rounder.. gives the 9ers 11 picks next year, plus any compensatory picks, which I'm thinking will be at least a 3rd/4th, with the loss of Goldson, Sopoaga, RJF, Ginn, and Walker, right?
Thought they looked great against the Vikings. And I know it was a Petersonless Vikings offense, but even the 2nd and 3rd string defenses seemed to be handling them pretty well. Thought McCoy looked "meh", and still definitely worried about the qb2.
Thought they looked great against the Vikings. And I know it was a Petersonless Vikings offense, but even the 2nd and 3rd string defenses seemed to be handling them pretty well. Thought McCoy looked "meh", and still definitely worried about the qb2.
When Justin Smith is in beast mode (like he was v. the Vikings), this is probably the best defense in the league. I'm worried that he won't hold up all year again, but we'll see. The Niners will need that over the first few weeks of the season because they have a pretty tough schedule.
chinawildman
Footballguy
. Loved his chicken neck dance.
Spin
Footballguy
Asomugha offers Dixon 24k for the number 24, Dixon says no thanks.
Looks like he'll wear 28 instead.
Looks like he'll wear 28 instead.
Good for Dixon. I wouldn't give up my number either.
Wingnut
Footballguy
I get what you're saying but why should Dixon give up his number to a guy who just signed and is the #3 CB?
Wingnut
Footballguy
Jesus. That's pathetic.Not since Tim Rattay had a 49er QB thrown for over 400 yards in a game.
Tim Rattay..
chinawildman
Footballguy
I was surprised when the stat said Kap just had his first 300 yd game... I think if teams keep selling out to stop the read option boldin is going to have himself a fine season.Not since Tim Rattay had a 49er QB thrown for over 400 yards in a game
Tim Rattay..
drummer
Footballguy
The game plan surely got Boldin in space more as opposed to one on ones. Davis had big games like that just getting him more open in the past, and the *poof*, Davis disappeared for the next few. Last years CHI game is an example with Kaep's first start. Great game from Kaep and Boldin, but who knows if that connection keeps consistent between them.chinawildman said:I was surprised when the stat said Kap just had his first 300 yd game... I think if teams keep selling out to stop the read option boldin is going to have himself a fine season.drummer said:Not since Tim Rattay had a 49er QB thrown for over 400 yards in a game
Tim Rattay..
drummer
Footballguy
I'm just happy to have a QB now who wants to throw the ball down field more instead of holding on and taking the sack.I hated him with all my soul...drummer said:Not since Tim Rattay had a 49er QB thrown for over 400 yards in a game
Tim Rattay..
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
You ready?
drummer
Footballguy
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Don't need it, time is money.
We know how this story goes. Kam destroys Davis, 42-13....more of the same.
drummer
Footballguy
Sorry man, but I have more if a history talkin' smack with Raiderfan. You probably don't.
Spin
Footballguy
Thought the Niners looked great yesterday.
Man, that throw from Rodgers to Nelson along the sideline was a thing of beauty, not sure if that's a better throw or a better catch.
Boldin looked like Crabtree out there, and Kap locked right onto him. Good to see it. Kap had a great game, kept his eyes upfield while scrambling, and he really does a good job of avoiding big hits by sliding/getting out of bounds, and he barely under threw Williams, which allowed the defender to make a great recovery. ~5 yards deeper and that's another TD, but I think Kap was getting hit.
Willis seemed to be about everywhere, although his stat line doesn't seem to show it. Aldon Smith is off to a great start again, and I was really impressed by Reid.
Great start and can't wait til next week.
Man, that throw from Rodgers to Nelson along the sideline was a thing of beauty, not sure if that's a better throw or a better catch.
Boldin looked like Crabtree out there, and Kap locked right onto him. Good to see it. Kap had a great game, kept his eyes upfield while scrambling, and he really does a good job of avoiding big hits by sliding/getting out of bounds, and he barely under threw Williams, which allowed the defender to make a great recovery. ~5 yards deeper and that's another TD, but I think Kap was getting hit.
Willis seemed to be about everywhere, although his stat line doesn't seem to show it. Aldon Smith is off to a great start again, and I was really impressed by Reid.
Great start and can't wait til next week.
5Rings
Lurker
The tackling in the secondary concerns me.
Namdi can't tackle worth a damn. Dude whiffed on Jordy multiple times. Whitner also had a poor game IMO. I thought Reid played solid in all facets of the game.
Lack of a pass rush from Brooks.
Uncle Jed kept him outta jail, dude better start bringing some pressure. I would not be shocked to see Lemonier start getting more snaps as the season progresses.
WR2 position hurts
Yeah, VD alleviates that a bit, but if Kyle wants to play, he needs to hold on to the damn ball. That incomplete was on him, underthrow and all.
Really, nothing that we didnt know going in. GB sold out to stop the run and Kap scorched them. I was worried that we would be too one dimensional on offense w/o Crabs. Glad to see so far Kap is good enough to elevate the play of his teammates.
Namdi can't tackle worth a damn. Dude whiffed on Jordy multiple times. Whitner also had a poor game IMO. I thought Reid played solid in all facets of the game.
Lack of a pass rush from Brooks.
Uncle Jed kept him outta jail, dude better start bringing some pressure. I would not be shocked to see Lemonier start getting more snaps as the season progresses.
WR2 position hurts
Yeah, VD alleviates that a bit, but if Kyle wants to play, he needs to hold on to the damn ball. That incomplete was on him, underthrow and all.
Really, nothing that we didnt know going in. GB sold out to stop the run and Kap scorched them. I was worried that we would be too one dimensional on offense w/o Crabs. Glad to see so far Kap is good enough to elevate the play of his teammates.
drummer
Footballguy
Another issue from yesterday's game was penalties, especially the unforced errors such as false starts and Aldon Smith jumping offsides. First game jitters on a young team, maybe, but they were also keyed up a little too much. I like the fact they haven't let down on the swagger after losing the Super Bowl, yet at the same time they are a powder keg due to Harbaugh's ego than can cause their own problems and be their own self enemy.
Love this quote from Kaep though:
"If intimidation is your game plan, I hope you have a better one".
5Rings
Lurker
I loved Matthews trying to step to him. Roidboy wasn't that much bigger and Kaep didnt flinch.
Wingnut
Footballguy
I also loved the fact that Kaep didn't engage Clay, instead just smiled and continued to let his play do the talking. Kaep doesn't seem to get rattled, he brushes off negative plays and gets back to work. You just gotta love that.When I saw that Kaep quote last night all I could think was "awesome"...for a second, I thought he might go all Walter White and add "We are the ones who intimidate."
:Kaepenberg:
drummer
Footballguy
Don't encourage the Breaking Bad geeks in the FFA please.
In other news: home opener had a tragedy yesterday -
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/08/reports-man-falls-to-his-death-at-candlestick-park-on-sunday/
Happened right around the start of the game too. Jed York and Co are gonna find out that the new fanbase ain't the old one. That's what he get's pitting fans against each other to get his shiny new stadium built. Bad Karma.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Jeebus, some Seahawk fans are pretty annoying in the game thread.
Im going to the Bucs - Saints game Sunday, then over to the Amphitheater for a ZZ Top/Kid Rock concert afterwards...gonna have to watch the game on DVR...Im gonna try not to check the score on my phone, but I doubt I have the will power.
And yeah, yeah, give me crap for Kid Rock...A female friend got tickets months ago and I agreed to go before I realized it was on a Sunday in football season.
Im going to the Bucs - Saints game Sunday, then over to the Amphitheater for a ZZ Top/Kid Rock concert afterwards...gonna have to watch the game on DVR...Im gonna try not to check the score on my phone, but I doubt I have the will power.
And yeah, yeah, give me crap for Kid Rock...A female friend got tickets months ago and I agreed to go before I realized it was on a Sunday in football season.
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Just re-watched the Packers game in anticipation of tonight. Nnamdi did miss some tackles badly, but I thought his coverage was very good most of the game. Jordy Nelson was making amazing catches all day, just really impressive stuff. If you have a QB like Rodger and a receiver making plays like that, no CB is going to hold up.
The 49ers' first series of the game was just awful. They need to get out to a stronger start tonight to keep the Seahawks from running away with the momentum early (like last year).
Someone was saying Lemonier looked impressive. Not sure if they were talking about preseason or not, but I don't think he played at all on defense last week.
Really wish Fangio would rotate J. Smith and McDonald out more. They'll need those guys 100% in December and January (hopefully).
Regarding Smith, someone in the Seahawks/Niners thread was saying he looked bad. Completely disagree - he forced the Lacy fumble in the first half, drew a double team on Aldon's 2nd sack, and was getting quite a bit of pressure, despite the fact that the GB o-line was completely overmatched by him and forced to hold him repeatedly (only a few of which were called). He wasn't single handled destroying every single play like he did in the 2011 playoffs, but he was definitely anchoring the line. I feel good about him going forward.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Eh, Hawks have our number right now....but until they show they can finish over .500 on the road, I'm not worried about them down the road in the least.
My money is still on SF to be NFC champs...and I might fly out to SF for the rematch in December, just to witness the revenge (which will mean much more at that point in the season) in person.
My money is still on SF to be NFC champs...and I might fly out to SF for the rematch in December, just to witness the revenge (which will mean much more at that point in the season) in person.
drummer
Footballguy
Some thoughts about the Seattle game -
Kaep said this about GB last week:
"If intimidation is part of your game plan, I hope you have a better one"
Well Kaep, you got your wish courtesy of the Seahawks defense who made you look like a deer in headlights most of the game. At one point, I told the person next to me watching the game "Kaep has to do something now to back up all the hype around him." He led the 49ers to their first points, which wound up a FG. From then on, he just looked lost and in shock, like it was last year's game all over again.
His stat line this game is totally opposite of last week. He's gonna have bad games, but this one was more than a bad game. He looked completely unprepared.
Harbaugh said last week to "come with some knuckles" regarding Clay Matthews. Sherman's slap to his behind was a tickle compared to the beating the 49ers took last night. Harbaugh wasn't acting all Muhammad Ali after this game. Way to give even more locker room material to your next opponent after Green Bay Jim. You need to stop with the press room shenanigans and suck this one up. Two games in a row Carroll beat you down. They were the more physical team last night, and they weren't gonna let you walk out of there talking trash.
The 49ers over the past two games racked up 23 penalties for around 206 yards. The Oakland Raiders over the past two have 18 for 121 yards. Not much more to be said there.
All of the sudden the WR and RB corp look pitifully thin. Boldin disappeared in Seattle, but I expect that from him. I don't expect much from Kendall Hunter either. He's no 'change of pace' RB. Unless the pace is going backwards. Gore's replacement is still on IR.
Aldon Smith was a positive, except for that stupid penalty.
The lesson here Jim Harbaugh is: Humility. We know you can't win with class, but at least try to lose with it at tomorrow's presser. Unless Lowell Cohn is baiting you if he is still let into the building. But even then, that is a lesson in restraint.
Kaep said this about GB last week:
"If intimidation is part of your game plan, I hope you have a better one"
Well Kaep, you got your wish courtesy of the Seahawks defense who made you look like a deer in headlights most of the game. At one point, I told the person next to me watching the game "Kaep has to do something now to back up all the hype around him." He led the 49ers to their first points, which wound up a FG. From then on, he just looked lost and in shock, like it was last year's game all over again.
His stat line this game is totally opposite of last week. He's gonna have bad games, but this one was more than a bad game. He looked completely unprepared.
Harbaugh said last week to "come with some knuckles" regarding Clay Matthews. Sherman's slap to his behind was a tickle compared to the beating the 49ers took last night. Harbaugh wasn't acting all Muhammad Ali after this game. Way to give even more locker room material to your next opponent after Green Bay Jim. You need to stop with the press room shenanigans and suck this one up. Two games in a row Carroll beat you down. They were the more physical team last night, and they weren't gonna let you walk out of there talking trash.
The 49ers over the past two games racked up 23 penalties for around 206 yards. The Oakland Raiders over the past two have 18 for 121 yards. Not much more to be said there.
All of the sudden the WR and RB corp look pitifully thin. Boldin disappeared in Seattle, but I expect that from him. I don't expect much from Kendall Hunter either. He's no 'change of pace' RB. Unless the pace is going backwards. Gore's replacement is still on IR.
Aldon Smith was a positive, except for that stupid penalty.
The lesson here Jim Harbaugh is: Humility. We know you can't win with class, but at least try to lose with it at tomorrow's presser. Unless Lowell Cohn is baiting you if he is still let into the building. But even then, that is a lesson in restraint.
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- not sure if this was a scheme thing or poor offensive line play, but they have to establish a running game.
- the receivering corps is going to be a problem. Everytime NBC showed a replay of a passing play, there was no one open. Collingsworth correctly noted that Davis is not a matchup problem for other cornerbacks- moving him out wide is not the answer.
- Kaepernick's decision making wasn't great, but given the poor WR play and poor performance of the running game, too much was asked from him in a hostile environment. Mildly concerning is that he badly under threw a deep ball for the second week in a row.
- a few dumb penalties aside, the defense was OK. It didnt really matter what they did out there last night with the offense playing so poorly.
- the receivering corps is going to be a problem. Everytime NBC showed a replay of a passing play, there was no one open. Collingsworth correctly noted that Davis is not a matchup problem for other cornerbacks- moving him out wide is not the answer.
- Kaepernick's decision making wasn't great, but given the poor WR play and poor performance of the running game, too much was asked from him in a hostile environment. Mildly concerning is that he badly under threw a deep ball for the second week in a row.
- a few dumb penalties aside, the defense was OK. It didnt really matter what they did out there last night with the offense playing so poorly.
chinawildman
Footballguy
The defense played great actually, but you can only do so much when the offense can't stay on the field and constantly give the ball away. You can quote Jim Mora Sr. on that one. I will say however that Asomougha is a downgrade from Chris Culliver. Save for the superbowl, he was always very impressive in defensing the deep ball and was a sound tackler in space.
And the offense, where do I begin...
That's 2 games in a row now that Frank Gore has made little to no difference in the running game. I hate to say it, but I disagree with drummer and think it's time to give Hunter a shot. He may get stuffed for no gain sometimes, but at least he has a chance to rip off a 20 yarder here or there. It was obvious from the get go that the seahawks' ability to have success on the ground gave them a significant advantage on offense.
Kap has to shoulder alot of the blame. He just seemed impatient and skittish, sometimes pulling the ball down and running when there wasn't any imminent pressure and not letting routes develop. If there's one drawback to being a mobile qb, it's that they will rarely stand in the pocket and take a shot in order to deliver a pass.
However I think the single most important element is that Kap HAS TO TAKE WHAT THE SEAHAWKS GIVE HIM. That's how they play defense. He kept pressing and trying to make big plays (i.e. that scramble where he decided to throw to Gore even though he easily had the 1st down) when he should've concentrated on executing the plays to move them down the field. Say what you will about Alex Smith and his 3 yard checkdowns, but that's how you beat the Seahawks. You can't be physical when you never make them have to tackle you or stay on the field extensively because you're mounting a 10+ play drive even if it's for a field goal.
There's a reason Alex Smith is 3-0 vs the Seahawks and Kap is 0-2.
And the offense, where do I begin...
That's 2 games in a row now that Frank Gore has made little to no difference in the running game. I hate to say it, but I disagree with drummer and think it's time to give Hunter a shot. He may get stuffed for no gain sometimes, but at least he has a chance to rip off a 20 yarder here or there. It was obvious from the get go that the seahawks' ability to have success on the ground gave them a significant advantage on offense.
Kap has to shoulder alot of the blame. He just seemed impatient and skittish, sometimes pulling the ball down and running when there wasn't any imminent pressure and not letting routes develop. If there's one drawback to being a mobile qb, it's that they will rarely stand in the pocket and take a shot in order to deliver a pass.
However I think the single most important element is that Kap HAS TO TAKE WHAT THE SEAHAWKS GIVE HIM. That's how they play defense. He kept pressing and trying to make big plays (i.e. that scramble where he decided to throw to Gore even though he easily had the 1st down) when he should've concentrated on executing the plays to move them down the field. Say what you will about Alex Smith and his 3 yard checkdowns, but that's how you beat the Seahawks. You can't be physical when you never make them have to tackle you or stay on the field extensively because you're mounting a 10+ play drive even if it's for a field goal.
There's a reason Alex Smith is 3-0 vs the Seahawks and Kap is 0-2.
chinawildman
Footballguy
AFAIK Collingsworth was suggesting that Vernon Davis SHOULD be the difference maker. I actually thought he matched up better against Sherman than Boldin did, and he always had the advantage in coverage against the safety Chancellor.
drummer
Footballguy
Kendall Hunter is no Barry Sanders. Hunter can't make up the times he get's blown up behind the line of scrimmage.
Alex Smith is 3-0 because who was Seattle's starting QB's in 2011?
ETA: one could say that it was David Akers and Ted Ginn who beat Seattle that season.
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chinawildman
Footballguy
I don't think him getting blown up behind the LOS is his fault.
Does it really matter that much who was at QB for Seattle? Wilson didn't do much of anything this game. Here's a stat for you:
Alex Smith in 3 games vs Seahawks: one interception
Colin Kaepernick in 2 games vs Seahawks: 4 picks 1 fumble lost
I don't care who's in for QB for seattle, you give the other team a short field and take points off the board for yourself, you will likely lose. Again, I don't think the blame is squarely on Kap's shoulders. Smith had the benefit of an effective running game in all the games he played. But this becomes a chicken/egg question, were they able to run the ball because they wore the defense down by keeping the seattle D on the field?
drummer
Footballguy
If you guys mean to shrink the offense down, well that's more on Roman. Smith has 1 TD to 1 INT against SEA in all three of those games. 15-20 for 125 yards in one game isn't "keeping a team off balance with the pass".
drummer
Footballguy
Opposing QB's don't matter in games? Where is Jackson now?
Again, Smith was hardly lighting up SEA. They were pedestrian games, total "game manager" play. If that's what you say beats SEA, ok you may have a point but the 49ers run game has slowed. SEA is playing on a whole 'nother level than they were in 2011, and in the second half of 2012 to this season.
chinawildman
Footballguy
It's not as simple as "keeping a team off balance". The seahawks play a game of attrition and thus the "human" factor matters greatly. While physicality is always mentioned in these 49ers/seahawks games, I think the mental aspect is frequently overlooked. You complete 3-4 yard passes, you make the defense work and tackle, you get first downs, you crack block and hit the DBs, you frustrate them. Maybe they end up playing undisciplined, maybe they start to second guess the play calls and assignments, maybe your D gets the ball back for you adding to their lack of confidence.
All this cannot happen if your offense can't stay on the field. And worse yet if you turn the ball over, the things I just wrote above start happening to your own defense and the snowball starts rolling downhill the other way.
drummer
Footballguy
All those 3 games were won by FG's, with the sole game broken open in scoring due to Ted Ginn. If you're doing an end around with your analysis saying that dinking and dunking you way into FG range is the way to beat Seattle at home, well I think SEA would have an answer for that by now.
BTW: in 2012 against SEA, Smith's was 0-2 in deep targets. The only two targets he threw deep. That's game manager stuff.
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