Schools and grading thoughts- Pandemic response (1 Viewer)

[Galileo]

"grades aren't a good way of judging kids"

This is a statement I wholeheartedly agree with.  Unfortunately, society and the educational system is not ready, willing, or able to embrace this.  Imagine the Utopian society where people learn simply because they are interested in learning for the betterment of themselves and society rather than an arbitrarily determined grade.  Oh well, that is another conversation., and mostly just a dream...

Anyway, here is what we are doing with grades.  I think I have posted this elsewhere, but I'll share here where the conversation is more focused on the topic.  We were able to pretty much complete the 3rd quarter (cut short by a couple days before the shutdown).  GPA's are based on semester grades.  Our first semester is signed sealed and delivered.  It is whatever it is.  The second semester will be assigned a letter grade, however the 4th quarter will be pass/no pass.  The gray area is how to blend the 3rd and 4th quarter.  Essentially, the semester grades will either be the same as the 3rd quarter or as much as one letter grade higher or lower to be determined at the teacher's discretion.  A student who had a high C for the 3rd quarter can be bumped up to a B if the teacher feels their work quality and effort merit such a bump.  A student with a low C can be knocked down to a D, if the teacher feels the 4th quarter work quality and effort merit the drop.  Most kids will likely end up with a semester grade that matches their 3rd quarter grade, but there is wiggle room.  Administrators have told teachers to lesson the work load, lower the bar of expectations (I hate this part), and try to error in favor of the student when there is a question.  

I am assigning work.  I am providing tons of feedback.  Ultimately, I am logging a record of work that is completed to a satisfactory level.  Work that is unsatisfactory is returned with feedback and I ask the student to revise and resubmit.  If students start to put together a string of unsatisfactory work or missing work, I contact parents and we try to push the kid in the right direction.

Our schedule is regular.  1st period, 3rd period, 5th period, and 7th are scheduled on Mondays and Wednesday for 1 1/2 hours each.  2nd, 4th, and 8th periods are scheduled for 1 1/2 hours on Tuesday and Thursday.  This gives kids a pretty regular routine, but teachers are flexible with how they use that time.  So, some of the learning is synchronous and at other times it may be asynchronous. I will often meet with my students for 15-30 minutes and turn them lose to complete their work.  Sometimes we do not meet as a class, but I make myself available for questions and assistance to those who need it during our scheduled time.  Students know to check our Google Classroom for instructions on their scheduled days (although a few seem to miraculously have "connections issues" when class time rolls around...especially the 8 am group!).  Fridays do not have scheduled classes.  Students are supposed to use this day to catch up and work on anything they need to that has been assigned through the week.  My own son typically spends all day Friday on the Xbox.  Teachers can use the Friday time for providing feedback to students, collaborating with colleagues, planning new stuff for the following week, faculty meetings, department meetings, etc...

 

[tri-man 47]

What are they doing for classes that require labs like chemistry/ physics?

Students can't do that lab from home, can they?

Yeah, some courses are awkward.  For labs, I believe the professors have been performing the lab work as the students watch on Zoom.  But we also have an active Fashion department, and some Art classes have had to adjust (photography; drawing; etc.).  I haven't heard how they've handled things in our small Nursing program.

 

[pecorino]

I’m an administrator at an independent school and we decided on P/F grades for the spring term almost immediately after deciding to go to remote learning. It’s fine for a small chunk of the year. Colleges will understand; kids and parents’ anxiety is kept in check. However if we return in the fall and continue online classes, we will need to figure out letter grades. It’s doable and we’ll have the time to prepare for it. 

 

[Galileo]

What are they doing for classes that require labs like chemistry/ physics?

Students can't do that lab from home, can they?

There is a ton of online content that allows for lab work to be done virtually though simulations.  I've got a few decent resources for physics if you need something.   Some things can be cobbled together with basic stuff you can find in the home.  It's not the same as the classroom, but one can still accomplish some decent thinking and concept development.

 

[Galileo]

I’m an administrator at an independent school and we decided on P/F grades for the spring term almost immediately after deciding to go to remote learning. It’s fine for a small chunk of the year. Colleges will understand; kids and parents’ anxiety is kept in check. However if we return in the fall and continue online classes, we will need to figure out letter grades. It’s doable and we’ll have the time to prepare for it. 

Sure, it is doable.  But, how about using this unfortunate pandemic experience as a serendipitous opportunity to disrupt the system?  Let's kick the grades to the curb!!!  

 

[pecorino]

Sure, it is doable.  But, how about using this unfortunate pandemic experience as a serendipitous opportunity to disrupt the system?  Let's kick the grades to the curb!!!  

It’s not the battle I want to fight right now. We have our hands full already trying to manage teachers who are out of their element and families who are very worried. Messing around with grades is not high on my list. We looked at the Mastery Transcript initiative two years ago and even in stable times, we weren’t ready to adopt it. It’s a good thing to talk about and the time is ripe for discussion given the situation. So maybe momentum builds to change grading practices. But I am not pushing for radical change now. 

 

[El Floppo]

This is a statement I wholeheartedly agree with.  Unfortunately, society and the educational system is not ready, willing, or able to embrace this.  Imagine the Utopian society where people learn simply because they are interested in learning for the betterment of themselves and society rather than an arbitrarily determined grade.  Oh well, that is another conversation., and mostly just a dream...

Anyway, here is what we are doing with grades.  I think I have posted this elsewhere, but I'll share here where the conversation is more focused on the topic.  We were able to pretty much complete the 3rd quarter (cut short by a couple days before the shutdown).  GPA's are based on semester grades.  Our first semester is signed sealed and delivered.  It is whatever it is.  The second semester will be assigned a letter grade, however the 4th quarter will be pass/no pass.  The gray area is how to blend the 3rd and 4th quarter.  Essentially, the semester grades will either be the same as the 3rd quarter or as much as one letter grade higher or lower to be determined at the teacher's discretion.  A student who had a high C for the 3rd quarter can be bumped up to a B if the teacher feels their work quality and effort merit such a bump.  A student with a low C can be knocked down to a D, if the teacher feels the 4th quarter work quality and effort merit the drop.  Most kids will likely end up with a semester grade that matches their 3rd quarter grade, but there is wiggle room.  Administrators have told teachers to lesson the work load, lower the bar of expectations (I hate this part), and try to error in favor of the student when there is a question.  

I am assigning work.  I am providing tons of feedback.  Ultimately, I am logging a record of work that is completed to a satisfactory level.  Work that is unsatisfactory is returned with feedback and I ask the student to revise and resubmit.  If students start to put together a string of unsatisfactory work or missing work, I contact parents and we try to push the kid in the right direction.

Our schedule is regular.  1st period, 3rd period, 5th period, and 7th are scheduled on Mondays and Wednesday for 1 1/2 hours each.  2nd, 4th, and 8th periods are scheduled for 1 1/2 hours on Tuesday and Thursday.  This gives kids a pretty regular routine, but teachers are flexible with how they use that time.  So, some of the learning is synchronous and at other times it may be asynchronous. I will often meet with my students for 15-30 minutes and turn them lose to complete their work.  Sometimes we do not meet as a class, but I make myself available for questions and assistance to those who need it during our scheduled time.  Students know to check our Google Classroom for instructions on their scheduled days (although a few seem to miraculously have "connections issues" when class time rolls around...especially the 8 am group!).  Fridays do not have scheduled classes.  Students are supposed to use this day to catch up and work on anything they need to that has been assigned through the week.  My own son typically spends all day Friday on the Xbox.  Teachers can use the Friday time for providing feedback to students, collaborating with colleagues, planning new stuff for the following week, faculty meetings, department meetings, etc...

What ages are you teaching?

I think the grades/no grades is a conversation worth having. But not veiled under/within the guise of helping disadvantaged kids in the middle of a pandemic, and especially not affecting schoolwork after the fact.

It turned out that one of the board co-authors -a parent from my daughter's elementary school- used her own kid's issues with grades not reflecting their abilities as a determining factor. And there was no genuine explanation of how changing already completed work to Mastery/non-Mastery in the context of a current pandemic helps anybody. If it had been suggested just for the 4th and final marking period, I'm sure there would be more than 1% of the parents for it. But I can't come up with a single reason for backdating it to work done for the 2/3 school years work before the remote learning commenced.

 

[Galileo]

What ages are you teaching?

I think the grades/no grades is a conversation worth having. But not veiled under/within the guise of helping disadvantaged kids in the middle of a pandemic, and especially not affecting schoolwork after the fact.

It turned out that one of the board co-authors -a parent from my daughter's elementary school- used her own kid's issues with grades not reflecting their abilities as a determining factor. And there was no genuine explanation of how changing already completed work to Mastery/non-Mastery in the context of a current pandemic helps anybody. If it had been suggested just for the 4th and final marking period, I'm sure there would be more than 1% of the parents for it. But I can't come up with a single reason for backdating it to work done for the 2/3 school years work before the remote learning commenced.

9th - 12th... Physical Science, Physics, and AP Physics

The second bold seems crazy to even attempt, IMO.  Why bother?  Is she just trying to erase a couple of blemishes in her kid's grades?

 

[desert rose]

My district decided pass/fail would be too problematic.  So it was decided that the grade through Q3 would be the lowest possible grade students could earn, even if they didn't turn in any work for Q4.  This quarter will be used to provide plenty of feedback, to keep students engaged, and to give students the opportunity to raise their grades.  Students with no access to internet are being mailed thumb drives with their modules.  All of the students in my school (9-12) already had one-to-one devices.  I had been using blended learning for the past three years, so it hasn't been that dramatic of a change for my students.   It looks like my district is already trouble shooting a remote fall launch.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I dont understand why the grading cant be the same as it always was? My daughters are in two different school districts but they both have the opportunity to communicate with teachers if they need to. Physically being in a desk has little to do with the content being taught IMO. 

 

[NutterButter]

Out of curiosity, are all/most of your kids doing remote learning with video conferencing?    We've been doing it right from the beginning (believe that was 3/16) and at this point, the kids are on auto pilot as far as the logistics. 

 

[Pinkerton]

It wasn't a vote today, it was a district wide zoom meeting with the district school board. 

Except they didn't have the pro version of zoom, so it was limited at 300 people.

that's classic....

 

[Pinkerton]

Our schedule is regular.  1st period, 3rd period, 5th period, and 7th are scheduled on Mondays and Wednesday for 1 1/2 hours each.

...

Fridays do not have scheduled classes.  Students are supposed to use this day to catch up and work on anything they need to that has been assigned through the week.  My own son typically spends all day Friday on the Xbox.  Teachers can use the Friday time for providing feedback to students, collaborating with colleagues, planning new stuff for the following week, faculty meetings, department meetings, etc...

What grade do you teach?

...

My district just started the no class on Fridays this week... my kids are both fully planning on them being off days. 

 

[Pinkerton]

Out of curiosity, are all/most of your kids doing remote learning with video conferencing?    We've been doing it right from the beginning (believe that was 3/16) and at this point, the kids are on auto pilot as far as the logistics. 

The video conferencing for my kids has rarely included any lessons. It is generally just been class updates and keeping in touch.  That said, this week the teachers are also beginning to hold weekly video conferences at assigned times so as not to overlap with other classes.  The one my 7th grade daughter had yesterday was mostly everyone showing their pets off. 

/Hipple

 

[El Floppo]

Out of curiosity, are all/most of your kids doing remote learning with video conferencing?    We've been doing it right from the beginning (believe that was 3/16) and at this point, the kids are on auto pilot as far as the logistics. 

The video conferencing for my kids has rarely included any lessons. It is generally just been class updates and keeping in touch.  That said, this week the teachers are also beginning to hold weekly video conferences at assigned times so as not to overlap with other classes.  The one my 7th grade daughter had yesterday was mostly everyone showing their pets off. 

My 3rd grader has been using the video like yours (32 kids, 1 teacher). My 7th grader only has 12 kids in his grade and has been using Google classroom since the beginning of the 6th grade. His teachers have been actively teaching and answering questions during their video conferencing...but much easier to do w 12 kids than 32.

 

[El Floppo]

What grade do you teach?

...

My district just started the no class on Fridays this week... my kids are both fully planning on them being off days. 

7th grader has every other Friday off- set up as office hours for the kids to ask 1 on 1 questions and to get caught up. My son has been getting caught up on watching Community.

 

[El Floppo]

Sure, it is doable.  But, how about using this unfortunate pandemic experience as a serendipitous opportunity to disrupt the system?  Let's kick the grades to the curb!!!  

This is what these two parents/board members are trying to do.

Again...I'm open for the discussion to flesh out exactly how what the benefits are, how it works and exactly what it means for admissions into upper schools (Jr High and HS). This kind of thing needs to be completely understood and developed before rollout so that kids and parents understand whatever rubrics are involved for applying to and getting accepted by those schools... Especially in a Dept of Ed with a million kids.

That these women are trying to backdoor it under the guise of fixing the inequities that remote learning has highlighted...makes me stabby.

 

[NutterButter]

My 3rd grader has been using the video like yours (32 kids, 1 teacher). My 7th grader only has 12 kids in his grade and has been using Google classroom since the beginning of the 6th grade. His teachers have been actively teaching and answering questions during their video conferencing...but much easier to do w 12 kids than 32.

We also have around 12 kids per classroom for each of our kids which might explain why its worked pretty well.  

 

[NutterButter]

The video conferencing for my kids has rarely included any lessons. It is generally just been class updates and keeping in touch.  That said, this week the teachers are also beginning to hold weekly video conferences at assigned times so as not to overlap with other classes.  The one my 7th grade daughter had yesterday was mostly everyone showing their pets off. 

/Hipple

That's how we do it.   They pretty much treat it as a normal school day where they just move from virtual room to virtual room at assigned times with a little break in between to do what they have to do to get ready for the next class.   

 

[pecorino]

I dont understand why the grading cant be the same as it always was? My daughters are in two different school districts but they both have the opportunity to communicate with teachers if they need to. Physically being in a desk has little to do with the content being taught IMO. 

Many teachers use traditional tests and quizzes to determine grades. Those can be tricky to administer online as kids can potentially open other tabs, text their friends, etc, in the middle of an assessment. I am in favor of more project-based work or papers or what have you, myself. One other aspect of this is how emotionally charged grading can be. I am at an independent school with some wealthy families who have high aspirations for their students (think Ivy league schools.) Many have a belief that one low term grade, will completely kill any chance that their darlings will get into their top choice of college. Now imagine that those grades are being determined by a new system, one that was developed in a couple weeks that just shifted into remote learning. Or imagine that those grades were determined by the old system (with tests and quizzes) which can call into question the integrity of those grades. The safer bet was moving to pass/fail for the spring. I think you will see a lot of schools prepare for traditional letter grades in the fall even if we return to remote learning because we'll have a full summer plus the experience from this spring to build a plan and assessments. It'll still be anxiety-producing but nothing like it would have been on top of everything else in March.

 

[Ilov80s]

I dont understand why the grading cant be the same as it always was? My daughters are in two different school districts but they both have the opportunity to communicate with teachers if they need to. Physically being in a desk has little to do with the content being taught IMO. 

Tests don’t really work due to cheating. I would say about 40% of the students are barely participating and no school is ready to deal with failing 40% of their students during a pandemic. Lots of low performing kids (which makes up about 25% of any school) need a ton of help that just can’t be done with video conferencing. 

 

[El Floppo]

I dont understand why the grading cant be the same as it always was? My daughters are in two different school districts but they both have the opportunity to communicate with teachers if they need to. Physically being in a desk has little to do with the content being taught IMO. 

In NYC at least, as I mentioned in the OP, there's a big disparity in terms of what people have available at home. I was stunned at how many families not only didn't have the hardware, bit also lacked WiFi/internet. Remote learning doesn't exactly work in those conditions and immediately exacerbates inequities between the haves and have nots. Add in stresses that the virus might impose first hand, or having entire families jammed into small NYC apartments not set up for everybody doing work...and there are good reasons for taking a hard look at mitigating declining performances that might result 

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Our kids are the same age (well my oldest in in 8th), my wife is a 1st grade teacher and i'm an adjunct college professor (part time). Needless to say, the whole schooling thing is a major topic of conversation here—and my wife and I don't always fall on the same sides. 

on the pass/fail thing, Problem is, the school districts were woefully unprepared for this...and still are. Likewise, so is the community. I'm out on LI, but I could imaging the city is 100x more impacted, but not everyone has enough computers for every kid in their house. Plus mom or dad may still be working from home. So the whole idea of "education at home" is disrupted at best to completely non-existent. My wife can see who's logging in and if its less than 50%, its a lot. I guess you could add a number grade to those doing the work, and fail or incomplete the others but that could open the schools up to liability as their expected programs could not be adequately offered.

There is talk of having the kids go back to school through the summer which i'm in favor of. It would give them a chance to get back to some normalcy as give them a chance to actually get evaluated and caught up. However you could imaging the push back I'm seeing from my wife (don't take away MY summer break now? WE would need to get paid for that!), plus the union hurdles. 

I'm also on LI, and would be in favor of summer school. Also, this isn't directed towards your wife, but honestly we have a lot of teacher friends out there, and I'm somewhat appalled at the approach they've been taking, which is to teach their own kids, go for walks, etc. and do a little bit of "teaching", which is posting assignments to Google classroom. They should be having fully interactive classes, just like usual, over Teams or Zoom or whatever. This isn't a freaking vacation. We pay north of $20K for property taxes, the bulk of which is for school, because we want our daughter getting the best education possible. No one wants to hear the "take away my summer vacation" from teachers right now. Try telling that to real front line workers and parents. It's a disgrace.

 

[Peak]

Would that also be the case for someone that has a 95%?  If they don't do the work will they also get an incomplete?  Regardless they shouldn't say that their grade cannot lower if it in reality can be lowered.

That's my understanding.  The statement sent was that if they did the work, then their grades wouldn't lower - but if they chose not to do any of the work it would be incomplete.  So I guess you could just put randomly select answers on a multiple choice test and get credit for "trying". 

 

[El Floppo]

Mayor deBlasio just announced Satisfactory/Needs-improvement.

unclear if this is for the current term only, or for the entire year. my wife- who has been all over this- is convinced its for the entire year.

 

[El Floppo]

Mayor deBlasio just announced Satisfactory/Needs-improvement.

unclear if this is for the current term only, or for the entire year. my wife- who has been all over this- is convinced its for the entire year.

HS has the option of taking the grades.

unclear about Middle School.

And first three terms are in the books... maybe. eta: Mayor said the fall was, Chancellor Carranaza said 3 of 4 terms were. not sure what either means for the work done in the third term just prior to remote learning.

 

[glvsav37]

I'm also on LI, and would be in favor of summer school. Also, this isn't directed towards your wife, but honestly we have a lot of teacher friends out there, and I'm somewhat appalled at the approach they've been taking, which is to teach their own kids, go for walks, etc. and do a little bit of "teaching", which is posting assignments to Google classroom. They should be having fully interactive classes, just like usual, over Teams or Zoom or whatever. This isn't a freaking vacation. We pay north of $20K for property taxes, the bulk of which is for school, because we want our daughter getting the best education possible. No one wants to hear the "take away my summer vacation" from teachers right now. Try telling that to real front line workers and parents. It's a disgrace.

no worries. I echo a lot of what you are saying—hence the "wife and I are often on different sides of this" from my OP.

Disclaimer, what i'm about to say might be a bit hypocritical b/c I benefit from the same issues I might complain about. 

I spent 90% of my career working in the private sector and while living with a teacher and I can tell you the 2 sides look at the organizational structure side of work polar oppositely. For every time I've had an issue at work, or had to stay late or something and "sucked it up" my wife would say "well how can they do that to you...that shouldn't be allowed?" To which I reply "Umm...I dont have a union contract and they can tell me to pound sand if they wanted" 

I will say this though, none of the districts were ready or had any foresight plan for this, NONE. Just watching what my wife is going through trying to navigate her grade level, the district, the union, and the inept parents is infuriating to me. Coming from the private sector where time is money and organizational structure rules, I walk around shaking my head more then ever. There is a huge technology gap between older teachers and younger ones. Given the schools rely so much on outsourced material now (vs custom lessons), they content is spread all over the place each with their own log in and user experience issues. And, as it is 100% evident in my wife....this is not what teachers do. Their personalities are built for standing in front of a room and working face to face with children...not IT support, not answering boatloads of emails, not trying to track down students who are not logging in to do the work. I can see in her demeanor since the online lessons started that she is frustrated and ready to give up on it. 

We also suffer from an issue here where our district is not the wealthiest and many students have (at best) only one computer in the house. So its impossible for her to "Go live" at any given time b/c other siblings or parents might be using the computer for their work. You simply cant provide equal access and instruction to all students this way. Zoom has also been banned by the union b/c of security issues, and they do not want teachers showing their face on anything that can be recorded. I know its a bit draconian to us, I average 3-4 zoom meeting a day and teach my college class through Zoom. But they are raising security concerns. 

Buuuuuut.....being i'm somewhat in PR (I'm in advertising, so I understand narrative and perception), I believe there are times when the teaching profession really needs to hire a PR manager and shape up their image sometimes. Her and I had a long discussion the other day about the summer school thing. Naturally she is not for it, but when I started tossing in real world issues like "Well the governor said we are in a state of bankruptcy and needs to make cuts...what if he threatened 'work this summer or risk loosing your pension?' " "He cant do that!!!??" "Oh really?"

Listen I love that my wife is a teacher, it is the best job for working mothers. We have great benefits and a quality of life because of it. But I fear that the public is really starting to turn on the profession, and it is very much in danger b/c of the way their union is more "no" than "yes". I work for my self, I need to work 10x harder now to keep the income coming in—I cant just be like, "Well this sucks, i'm going toss some crap online and go for a walk". If you worked for someone else and they said, "hey to make up lost revenue, we need to be open on Saturday for the next month" you pretty much suck it up and do it. I just dont see that happening with teachers now, and I fear that will be one more PR demerit. 

 

[Galileo]

What grade do you teach?

...

My district just started the no class on Fridays this week... my kids are both fully planning on them being off days. 

High school...9-12

 

[Galileo]

This is what these two parents/board members are trying to do.

Again...I'm open for the discussion to flesh out exactly how what the benefits are, how it works and exactly what it means for admissions into upper schools (Jr High and HS). This kind of thing needs to be completely understood and developed before rollout so that kids and parents understand whatever rubrics are involved for applying to and getting accepted by those schools... Especially in a Dept of Ed with a million kids.

That these women are trying to backdoor it under the guise of fixing the inequities that remote learning has highlighted...makes me stabby.

This is why it is more or less a pipe dream.  The inertia of the "system" is much too great for this to ever become a widespread reality.  Societal attitudes and motivation for learning would have to change dramatically to ever make this a reality.  This is not something that can be changed over night with a simple policy change.  

 

[Galileo]

In NYC at least, as I mentioned in the OP, there's a big disparity in terms of what people have available at home. I was stunned at how many families not only didn't have the hardware, bit also lacked WiFi/internet. Remote learning doesn't exactly work in those conditions and immediately exacerbates inequities between the haves and have nots. Add in stresses that the virus might impose first hand, or having entire families jammed into small NYC apartments not set up for everybody doing work...and there are good reasons for taking a hard look at mitigating declining performances that might result 

The hardware and infrastructure inequities are real.  The strain on home networks with 4, 5, 6,...people trying to work simultaneously can become problematic as you point out.  Also, there are situations where mom and dad are working and now the older sibling has to look after the younger ones.  Their availability for synchronous online learning can easily be compromised due to family situation.  These are some of the reasons schools are reluctant to "grade as usual".

 

[Galileo]

I'm also on LI, and would be in favor of summer school. Also, this isn't directed towards your wife, but honestly we have a lot of teacher friends out there, and I'm somewhat appalled at the approach they've been taking, which is to teach their own kids, go for walks, etc. and do a little bit of "teaching", which is posting assignments to Google classroom. They should be having fully interactive classes, just like usual, over Teams or Zoom or whatever. This isn't a freaking vacation. We pay north of $20K for property taxes, the bulk of which is for school, because we want our daughter getting the best education possible. No one wants to hear the "take away my summer vacation" from teachers right now. Try telling that to real front line workers and parents. It's a disgrace.

Sad to hear this.  I can tell you in my district, teachers are working their ### off to provide meaningful learning experiences for their classes.  I put in more hour per day now than when school is in "regular" mode.  I have much design and redesign work to put into my lessons for 3 different classes (all laboratory classes).  I have to collect more work and provide more feedback than ever before which takes a significant amount of time.  When in a classroom, I know exactly what they are doing and how they are doing it.  I can look over their shoulders and provide quick feedback to guide their learning.  This is much more difficult in a remote environment.  Yes we can get together in Zoom, we do regularly, but it is not a smooth process.  Student chromebooks are not powerful enough to handle the load well.  Video gets choppy...audio is broken up.  it has its challenges, but it is a useful tool.  I have not seen or heard from any teachers treating this like a vacation.  Nor have I heard anyone crying about taking "away my summer vacation".  Quite frankly, I expect my summer "vacation" to be spent working on trying to redesign instruction for the early parts of the curriculum since we have such an uncertain future at the moment.  School in the fall may still be online or possibly some other blended scenario. 

 

[El Floppo]

This is why it is more or less a pipe dream.  The inertia of the "system" is much too great for this to ever become a widespread reality.  Societal attitudes and motivation for learning would have to change dramatically to ever make this a reality.  This is not something that can be changed over night with a simple policy change.  

DeBlasio tried to ramrod a shift to the acceptance standard to a small group of NYC's elite public HSs, which all use the SHSAT test as their SOLE means of acceptance. No grades. No attendance. No extra-curricular. No in-class work. Nothing but the test. it's a system, IMO, that was seriously flawed to begin with, and has over the years forced a shift to the schools being predominantly asian and white, with ever shrinking hispanic and black populations (the jewel of the system- Stuyvesant HS- has had single digit black kids every year lately. 

And while the mayor's approach was also flawed IMO (taking the top 7% of middle school students, no test), it at least included a slow roll-out. Kids and families need to know years ahead of time what the standards are for moving up. I think even in a system as huge as NYC, a four year roll out of a big change is possible... but it has to be crystal clear.

so yeah- over night or sneaked in through the back door aren't ever going to work or be acceptable.

 

[El Floppo]

fwiw, here's the official word from the NYC DOE:

GRADE(S) GRADING POLICY SUMMARY
3K & Pre-K No change – students in 3K and Pre-K do not receive report cards or grades.
K - 5th Students receive final grades of either “Meets Standards” (MT) or “Needs Improvement” (N).
6th - 8th Students receive final grades of “Meets Standards” (MT), “Needs Improvement” (N), or “Course

in Progress” (NX), if additional time is needed to complete the course.

9th - 12th Your school’s existing grading scale applies, but no failing grades will be issued. A “Course in
Progress” (NX) will be issued instead, providing students with additional time to complete the
requirements for the course. After final grades have been issued, students and families have the
option to convert any or all passing Spring Semester 2020 final grades to ‘CR’ which indicates the
course was passed and credit was earned but does not have a value in the student’s GPA.

again- Jr Highs and HSs use 4th grade and 7th grade scores as their criteria for admission (it's very competitive): state test scores, grades, and attendance are the three main (95%) determining factors, with the first two driving everything.

as of today- there are no state tests, no grades and attendance won't count.

and they haven't explained how exactly these previously highly competitive schools will be basing their admissions now- without the three driving factors. 

I genuinely don't see how this approach helps anybody other than politicians with an agenda to sneak in. 

 

[Roy L Fewks]

Wow, George Orwell was right.

 

[Roy L Fewks]

Oops, sorry. Misread the thread title.

 

[Ilov80s]

Oops, sorry. Misread the thread title.

I’m curious what you thought it was, I can’t figure it out 

 

[Roy L Fewks]

Oops, sorry. Misread the thread title.

I’m curious what you thought it was, I can’t figure it out 

I saw "are" instead of "and."

 

[Ilov80s]

I saw "are" instead of "and."

Hmmm....interesting. I suppose teachers do grade thoughts in a way

 

[El Floppo]

I saw "are" instead of "and."

except in NYC where it's pass/kinda-pass.

 

[stlrams]

Curious what you all think about how schools should be responding to the pandemic in terms of grading. Pass/Fail? Keep grades? Keep grades until remote learning started, and then have the option of incorporating those? Other?

There are some complex factors in play, obviously- including the range of equity at home or in the school school to provide the means to even allow remote learning (computer/tablets/smart phones/internet/parents present or not/etc). 

I'm hoping for a general discussion about this to see if there's any common thoughts. I may put up a poll once discussion begins.

Secondarily specific to my concerns....

Our kids are in 3rd and 7th grades in public schools in NYC. 4th and 7th grade state test scores and grades and are the primary factor for acceptance/placement into Middle School and High Schools. NYC has a ton of these, and acceptance can be very competitive and selective for the "best" schools. NYC cancelled state tests (I think the entire state of NY did), so grades will be the primary factor as of now.

Our 7th grader has been working his ### off with the intent of getting himself in a position to have options for High School. I'm incredibly proud of both the hard and focused work he's been doing (self-motivated... wife and I are fairly laissez faire with the work itself) and the results he's been getting. If grades are the primary factor, his hard work should pay off in meeting his intent to place himself in a good position for HS. Our 3rd grader- with nothing on the line in terms of applications to further schooling- has also challenged herself to do as well as possible and is (as are we) very proud of the results she is achieving from the work she's put in.

NYC Dept of Education will be voting this week, maybe even today. I understand they're proposing to change the entire city to a Mastery/no-Mastery binary system.

A resolution, that I'm sure will be ignored by the DOE, is asking to essentially allow students to use their best 3 of 4 marking period grades, which allows them to drop the marking period during the pandemic if their grade has suffered. 

We told our kids about the DOE's proposal- they were at first heartbroken (7h grade floppinho especially) and then furious. "Why even bother!?" was their takeaway- and even though I did my best to make the point that they should always strive to do the best they're capable of doing... it was hard to answer that point. I shouldn't be surprised by how the DOE and gov agencies typically reach for the lowest common denominator- a needed benchmark in a place of 8mil people in a huge range of conditions- but this sinks way past that IMO and only helps kids who were going to fail anyways; everybody else get shafted. 

Fwiw, sister is a guidance consular in a highly competitive high school.  She indicates that students failing one subject or more increased from 6% to 30 % during the last semester.  The school decided to pass all students giving the situation.  The problem here is some classes are building blocks for the next class so if you were failing alegabra 1 there’s a good chance you’ll fail alegabra 2.