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Scott Walker WI governor vs the Packers & teachers (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cr8f
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
My favorite was the "I Blame Favre!" sign from the other day.
HellToupee
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
that farve sign was
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
That was pretty awesome.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Mario Kart
Footballguy
If I had a rant like that, it would have been laced with "F" bombs and I would not care.
BoneYardDog
Footballguy
Your ignorance is showing, you know nothing about the Tea Party so you cannot make fun of it... You have no idea what a "Tea Party Activist" is... You are anything but fair because you don't know what you are talking about...You pass on lies and talking points like a lot of the lefties on this board without knowing the facts...
There really is no one like you on these boards, I will give you that much... You are a lot like Adonis but he is much smoother and more intelligent than you, of course you could be his "stupid" alias...
Someone needs to tell this guy that the way you find out what is in a bill is to pass it. Doesn't he know how our government operates?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Does the government have a right to strongly limit a citizen's ability to be employed as the employee and employer see fit? I understand protecting children, however the original Child Labor Laws were as much about protecting wages and employment for adult males than helping the kids.
the moops
Footballguy
#### yea, that was pretty awesome.
timschochet
Footballguy
How can I respond to a post like this one...I consider being compared to Adonis a compliment...
If you like incoherent ranting, I suppose.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
You really can't.
the moops
Footballguy
If the guy was spouting off tea party ramblings you would be all over this.
Clarence the barber
Footballguy
Thanks to the people in this thread. I'm an uneducated slug and originally just figured that the Democrats were whining about being a minority party. The more I read, the more it looks like very slimy work by the majority party in Wisconsin.
MasterofOrion
Footballguy
This may be a honda. I have not read the entire thread.
I understand that there was a need for unions in the industrial age were few companies had most of the jobs in a community and the employer had the upper hand in contract negations. Combined with the fact the companies have a profit motive they can, and do, dictate lower wages and employee misuse.
However, I don't get why Government employees needs to be unionized. Government strives to be fair, public employees have safe jobs relative to the industrial sector (some even have tenure) and Government has no profit motive, or motivation, to screw their employees.
There is IMO a conflict of interest when public unions give money to politicians. The politicians they help get elected are in unions debt to the union and the debt is paid for by giving higher wages or better benefits. The employees in essence hire their boss thought the political process. For contract negotiation to work the employer has to be motivated for what is best for the company. If both sides are on the same side of negotiation table, then abuse will and IMO has happened in contract negotiations.
I understand that there was a need for unions in the industrial age were few companies had most of the jobs in a community and the employer had the upper hand in contract negations. Combined with the fact the companies have a profit motive they can, and do, dictate lower wages and employee misuse.
However, I don't get why Government employees needs to be unionized. Government strives to be fair, public employees have safe jobs relative to the industrial sector (some even have tenure) and Government has no profit motive, or motivation, to screw their employees.
There is IMO a conflict of interest when public unions give money to politicians. The politicians they help get elected are in unions debt to the union and the debt is paid for by giving higher wages or better benefits. The employees in essence hire their boss thought the political process. For contract negotiation to work the employer has to be motivated for what is best for the company. If both sides are on the same side of negotiation table, then abuse will and IMO has happened in contract negotiations.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
I just like that he seemed to be genuinely outraged. Maybe it's all affect, but he pulled it off well in any case.
You don't know me very well, huh?
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Pretty ironic how he rails on how he had to listen to an ad on the radio by outside interests. What does he think about President Obama throwing his two cents in to a state matter? Or he rants about how democracy is suppose to work when his fellow democrats in the senate go AWOL in order to avoid a vote. Or how he doesn't have time to review or debate the bill when the democrats tried ramming through a bill in December before Walker took office.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That was great...and he is totally right. Michigan's new governor has a new budget as well. Even some Republicans are complaining they weren't consulted about it and didn't even know anything about it until it was presented. What is with these new Governors blindsiding the legislative branch?ETA: based on another poster, perhaps he is being hypocritical, but he is still right.
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MasterofOrion
Footballguy
He sounded just like Greyson.
Wisconsin is home for me and it's sad to see both sides behaving so embarrassing...
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
If the Dems felt blindsided by the bill and weren't given proper time to review it, then going "AWOL" is fair play. As for anything Obama has done or federal Democrats have done, does not pertain to him. What was the bill attempted to be rammed through and how was it rammed through? Outside of the most recent happenings, my only real knowledge of Wisconsin politics is Fightin' Bob. BTW, check out Gordon Hintz's wikipedia page, they cite him as 2003 2nd place finisher in the National Air Guitar Championships.
Topes
Footballguy
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
From what I've read the Democrats could have passed that contract in special session, but chose not to when the then Gov-elect requested they wait so he could negotiate the deal. All fine and good until the new Governor makes no attempt to actually negotiate and moves to effectively strip the union of all future negotiating power. I don't even necessarily disagree with that position - but if you want to end union rights for state workers, do it across the board and make it part of your platform. And no, I don't think running on "Fiscal Responsibility" is specific enough to draw a mandate from.
That was pretty cool and he makes some good points. However, I wonder if he'd be ranting in like this in the US Congress when the health care bill was rammed through. Not saying, just saying..
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The Kerminator
Footballguy
It was posted earlier in this thread but the bill that the democrats tried ramming through in December was an agreement with the unions that gave the union favorable pay raises. They did not even begin working on this until they lost the governor's office, control of the senate and control of the assembly in the November elections. They tried passing it before Walker took office, even going so far to drag an assemblyman out of jail because they needed his vote.From December 15th
Where are they going to go? Illinois, run into the ground by Democrats, is raising taxes as well. Running out of options in the Upper Midwest unless you're referring to Indiana.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
The reason they did not pass that bill isn't because they wanted to do governor-elect a favor. The reason it did not pass is because an outgoing democratic senator changed his vote.Labor contract stalls in state Senate
Madison - Labor contracts for state workers dramatically stalled in the Legislature late Wednesday after the leader of Senate Democrats defied his party and cast the deciding vote to reject them.
In a rare lame-duck session before Republicans take over the Legislature, the no-pay-raise contracts for tens of thousands of workers were approved by slim majorities in the Assembly with a decisive vote cast by a lawmaker released from jail. But senators tied 16-16 with one senator absent on the contracts and outgoing Senate Majority Leader Russ Decker (D-Wausau) and Sen. Jeff Plale (D-South Milwaukee) voting with all Republicans against the contracts.
Decker said he was not comfortable voting for the contracts now that the "people have spoken" and voted him and other Democrats out of office. He blamed Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle and unions for not reaching an agreement on the contracts before the Nov. 2 election.
"If these contracts had been brought to us before the elections, as they should have been, this would have been an entirely different situation," Decker said on the Senate floor.
The Senate did not end the extraordinary session, leaving Democrats the option at least in theory of voting on the contracts again.
But the votes were a dramatic victory for Governor-elect Scott Walker and his fellow Republicans, who said the contracts should be left for them to deal with so they can extract concessions from the unions on pensions and health care benefits. Otherwise, Walker said he would have to make deeper cuts in areas such as health care and education to address a budget shortfall of about $150 million through June and a gaping hole of up to $3.3 billion for the two-year period after that.
"Bottom line is it just means other issues are going to be potentially more a target - Medicaid, school aids, things like that get pushed further up the list if you don't have options to deal with wage and benefit reform," Walker said before the votes were taken.
Democrats quickly deposed Decker as majority leader in favor of Sen. Dave Hansen (D-Green Bay), who will serve for the next two weeks until his party gives up power. Sen. Bob Jauch (D-Poplar) angrily called for Decker to resign and speculated that Decker had made his vote in the hopes of lining up a job after he leaves office.
Jauch and other Democrats said Decker, a longtime member of a bricklayers union, would not tell his Democratic colleagues how he was going to vote before senators took the floor. Increasing the surprise, Decker had voted for the contracts earlier Wednesday in a committee that handles state labor agreements.
"In 28 years I've never seen a leader stick it to his members like this," Jauch fumed. "Psychologists probably write books about this type of behavior. It's a disorder that's probably now being named."
Decker said he was not looking for a job with Walker's administration and plans to continue a job in construction. Plale said he had "no prospects right now" when asked if he was interested in a job in Walker's administration.
Decker took over as majority leader in late 2007 after staging a coup of then-Majority Leader Sen. Judy Robson (D-Beloit) and now goes out in the same way. He already had lost his re-election bid to Republican physician Pam Galloway last month.
Marty Beil, executive director of the Wisconsin State Employees Union, criticized Republicans for their votes but laid a special fury on Decker.
"He'll never ever hold a seat as a Democrat (again)," Beil said of Decker.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
I keep seeing this analogy and I just don't get it. I know the Republican line is that the bill was "rammed through", but health care proposals were debated for the better part of 18 months before the 2008 election, and were major parts of both party platforms in the election. Then the "ramming" of the bill went on for around six months with seemingly endless open and closed session debates. I'm not seeing the equivalence at all with this action, which apparently never came up during the gubernatorial election and was sent blind to the WI Democrats with less than a week to review before they would be required to have a binding vote on it.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Okay, so two Democrats went along with Walker's request to wait until he could negotiate the deal. It doesn't fundamentally change anything I said.
bakes
I am the Beer God!
Let me know when you get one, mmmkay> Because what you have now is a shill for special interests and the agenda of the Koch Brothers, aka Randolph and Mortimer Duke.
bakes
I am the Beer God!
Tantric ramming.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Tantric ramming.
squidrope
Footballguy
I'd bet that the kids would learn more being in school with the substitutes, than they would not being in school with the teachers out "sick".
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That is debatable. Subs literally are babysitters. Some of the subs I see come into my building, I wouldn't hire to flip burgers yet alone manage 36 people.
BoneYardDog
Footballguy
The same can be said of some teachers...
squidrope
Footballguy
So you think the kids as a whole can learn more by being out of school due to "sick" teachers, than they could learn being in school with the subs?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Ok, the same could be said for mid level management at any number of private companies....your turn
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Anything they learn while in school is from the lesson plan created by the actual teacher. Subs show up, try to take attendance, maybe follow the plans the teacher left or maybe just give the kids a free day (against the teachers instructions) and try to make sure no kids are hurt. Don't you remember having subs in school? They didn't teach anything, they just put an assignment on the board. You are lucky to see a sub who knows basic Algebra to help the kids. It is really bad, but to save money the school uses this giant privately run sub company. It really is awful, but there are a ton of subs and someone is always there when a teacher has to take a day off.
squidrope
Footballguy
Is that a yes, or a no? Pretty simple question. How about a simple answer.
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BoneYardDog
Footballguy
Yeah but the tax payer doesn't have to pay the salary for mid level management of private companies...your turn
Ilov80s
Footballguy
As a whole, no they don't learn more. Do they learn less? That is a different question. However, the regular teachers should be there teaching. The debate of with subs or no school shouldn't even matter because the teachers should be there teaching.Is that a yes, or a no? Pretty simple question. How about a simple answer.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I think even his critics have to be impressed with Scott Walker. I cannot think of another college dropout who has gotten elected Governor of any state during my lifetime.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The point is you are taking shots at teachers for no reason, but to take shots there. Comparing a sub who shows up passes out a worksheet and takes attendance to a teacher who lesson plans, grades, delivers 5 hours of presentations nearly every day, etc. is saying something negative just for the sake of saying something negative. Yes, there are bad teachers. There are bad workers at every job. I am all for removing bad teachers. I just don't advocate test scores being the key determinant of success.
BoneYardDog
Footballguy
My wife is a 9th grade librarian, she mingles with teachers all day long... A lot of them actually hate working with kids and are in it only for the pay and benefits... A lot of them could not care less about teaching the kids... I hear these stories every day over dinner, again I said a lot of them not all of them... There are some excellent teachers but like any other profession there are a fair amount that do not care about the job they do...
Also throwing money at education does very little to help the children but the teachers and even more so the administration love the extra money...
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I am all for removing bad teachers. There are a few I work with whom I'd love to toss out the door.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
I don't know what you entrust your subs with when you are gone but I know a few teachers that when they know I am going to be their sub they give me a lesson plan to teach that day. I have taught a good number of math classes, psychology classes and history classes as a sub. Yes, I pass out my fair share of worksheets or watch movies but I also do teach lessons.
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