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Scott Walker WI governor vs the Packers & teachers (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter cr8f
- Start date
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Didn't the unions agree to ALL of the concessions, except for the collective bargaining restrictions?
Statorama
Footballguy
One union out of several hundred vaguely agreed to some concessions (the 12/5).
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Footballguy
Joe Wilson says hello.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Can't find a link but I heard today a comparison of the Supreme Court results in the individual senate districts with the senators up for recall. If the votes for Prosser would go to the republican and the votes for Kloppenberg go to the democrat three seats would change hands. The democrats would lose 2 seats and the republicans would lose 1. The republicans would actually gain a senate seat.
I'll see if I can find the link.
I'll see if I can find the link.
cr8f
Footballguy
Look Wisconsin has a Kathryn Harris too.
Election Returns: What Went On in Waukesha?
After Hours of Silence, Embattled Clerk Reports Wildly-High Turnout in Prosser’s Top County
Madison -- As counties statewide move to certify Tuesday’s shocking upset victory by JoAnne Kloppenburg over heavily-favored David Prosser, unanswered questions remain about returns from Tuesday night in Waukesha County -- the top-performing county in the state for Scott Walker’s self-proclaimed “complement” on the Supreme Court.
“Wisconsin deserves elections that are fair, clean and transparent,” said Scot Ross, One Wisconsin Now Executive Director. “There is a history of secrecy and partisanship surrounding the Waukesha County Clerk and there remain unanswered questions.”
Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus, a former staffer for the Assembly Republican Caucus, has been sharply criticized in recent months for her handling of recent elections. Even the archly-conservative Waukesha County Board has sharply condemned Nickolaus after past elections, demanding an immediate audit of her practices following ominous red-flags that emerged regarding her lack of oversight, failure to create backup files and her stubborn insistence to “keep everything secret.” [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/18/10; 1/17/11]
The County auditors said it was eminently possible -- including historical precedent -- for Nickolaus or a rogue employee to tamper with data. Why? Nickolaus insists on controlling password access and has unilaterally decided to move sensitive files, like election results, onto her personal computer.
Nickolaus has actually scoffed at complying with impartial audits, thumbing her nose at critics. A move that drew a sharp reaction at the time from the County Board Chair:
“There really is nothing funny about this, Kathy,” said Waukesha County Board Chairman Jim Dwyer when Nickolaus willfully ignored complying with the earlier impartial audit. “Don’t sit there and grin when I'm explaining what this is about.” [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/18/10; 1/17/11]
On Tuesday, shockingly-large turnout suddenly emerged from Waukesha County, which did not comport with either the results of previous spring elections, or even internal estimates from city officials mid-day. In fact, a Waukesha City Deputy Clerk said at 1:18pm that turnout was very typical, predicting somewhere between 20 to 25 percent. As Tuesday night wore on, reporting in Waukesha County stopped altogether for hours, leaving observers to wonder what was going on. Then suddenly, results suggesting massive turnout started to pour in rapidly with Prosser adding dramatically to his total by a 73-27 percent margin.
One Wisconsin Now estimates put overall turnout near 38 percent, a wild outlier to historical data and the earlier mid-day estimation of Waukesha’s own officials. In April 2009, turnout was 20 percent; April 2008, turnout was 22 percent and in April 2007, turnout was 24 percent. All of these elections had hotly-contested Supreme Court races as well.
http://www.onewisconsinnow.org/releases/Election%20results%2C%20Waukesha%2020110407.pdf
# # #
Election Returns: What Went On in Waukesha?
After Hours of Silence, Embattled Clerk Reports Wildly-High Turnout in Prosser’s Top County
Madison -- As counties statewide move to certify Tuesday’s shocking upset victory by JoAnne Kloppenburg over heavily-favored David Prosser, unanswered questions remain about returns from Tuesday night in Waukesha County -- the top-performing county in the state for Scott Walker’s self-proclaimed “complement” on the Supreme Court.
“Wisconsin deserves elections that are fair, clean and transparent,” said Scot Ross, One Wisconsin Now Executive Director. “There is a history of secrecy and partisanship surrounding the Waukesha County Clerk and there remain unanswered questions.”
Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus, a former staffer for the Assembly Republican Caucus, has been sharply criticized in recent months for her handling of recent elections. Even the archly-conservative Waukesha County Board has sharply condemned Nickolaus after past elections, demanding an immediate audit of her practices following ominous red-flags that emerged regarding her lack of oversight, failure to create backup files and her stubborn insistence to “keep everything secret.” [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/18/10; 1/17/11]
The County auditors said it was eminently possible -- including historical precedent -- for Nickolaus or a rogue employee to tamper with data. Why? Nickolaus insists on controlling password access and has unilaterally decided to move sensitive files, like election results, onto her personal computer.
Nickolaus has actually scoffed at complying with impartial audits, thumbing her nose at critics. A move that drew a sharp reaction at the time from the County Board Chair:
“There really is nothing funny about this, Kathy,” said Waukesha County Board Chairman Jim Dwyer when Nickolaus willfully ignored complying with the earlier impartial audit. “Don’t sit there and grin when I'm explaining what this is about.” [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/18/10; 1/17/11]
On Tuesday, shockingly-large turnout suddenly emerged from Waukesha County, which did not comport with either the results of previous spring elections, or even internal estimates from city officials mid-day. In fact, a Waukesha City Deputy Clerk said at 1:18pm that turnout was very typical, predicting somewhere between 20 to 25 percent. As Tuesday night wore on, reporting in Waukesha County stopped altogether for hours, leaving observers to wonder what was going on. Then suddenly, results suggesting massive turnout started to pour in rapidly with Prosser adding dramatically to his total by a 73-27 percent margin.
One Wisconsin Now estimates put overall turnout near 38 percent, a wild outlier to historical data and the earlier mid-day estimation of Waukesha’s own officials. In April 2009, turnout was 20 percent; April 2008, turnout was 22 percent and in April 2007, turnout was 24 percent. All of these elections had hotly-contested Supreme Court races as well.
http://www.onewisconsinnow.org/releases/Election%20results%2C%20Waukesha%2020110407.pdf
# # #
The Kerminator
Footballguy
That's not the link I was looking for but it shows the same data. Thanks.
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The Kerminator
Footballguy
If I heard correctly the vice chair of the Waukesha Democratic party was present during the canvas of the vote totals and she has NO problem with the results.
snogger
Footballguy
. but I've said enough on that subject so I'll leave it at that.
snogger
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I wrote this in the other thread but I would absolutely love it if Prosser voted to uphold the Dane County judge's decision. Prosser's supposed to be an independent. It would be great, and a lesson to the Tea Partiers who poured money into his campaign that a supreme court justice can't be bought. It probably won't happen, but I so wish it would.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
It is indeed foolish to blame the shortfalls on any one source. It's equally foolish to ignore something because it doesn't help as much as we'd like.
snogger
Footballguy
My understanding is that it comes down to "was this posted on the BB two hours before the vote"? From what I have seen there isn't any evidence to prove it wasn't.I wrote this in the other thread but I would absolutely love it if Prosser voted to uphold the Dane County judge's decision. Prosser's supposed to be an independent. It would be great, and a lesson to the Tea Partiers who poured money into his campaign that a supreme court justice can't be bought. It probably won't happen, but I so wish it would.
Was it a "back door" move?? yes, and I don't like the move any more than you do
But they weren't the only ones to pull such a move that followed the rules the legislature wrote.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
How about...if they actually truely followed the established rules...that Prosser and every other judge vote that they did and the law goes through.I wrote this in the other thread but I would absolutely love it if Prosser voted to uphold the Dane County judge's decision. Prosser's supposed to be an independent. It would be great, and a lesson to the Tea Partiers who poured money into his campaign that a supreme court justice can't be bought. It probably won't happen, but I so wish it would.
Rather than trying to prove some independence and piss off the tea party because tim doesn't like the tea party.
My wish is that the law is actually followed.
snogger
Footballguy
Sorry, missed that question..No TommyGunz, the shortfalls are not ALL because of the Unions and these sweet deals they got for the Teachers.
There are plenty of "sweet deals" to blame.
But to ignore that they are a part of the problem is, as mentioned above "equally foolish".
Bogeys
Footballguy
You know, when it comes to the Tea Party you are becoming a giant #####. You can disagree without doing that...in fact I think I have seen you chastise people on this board for doing that.I wrote this in the other thread but I would absolutely love it if Prosser voted to uphold the Dane County judge's decision. Prosser's supposed to be an independent. It would be great, and a lesson to the Tea Partiers who poured money into his campaign that a supreme court justice can't be bought. It probably won't happen, but I so wish it would.
timschochet
Footballguy
I'm not attacking any individual tea party members- only the group as a whole. And even then I'm only attacking their positions and tactics.You know, when it comes to the Tea Party you are becoming a giant #####. You can disagree without doing that...in fact I think I have seen you chastise people on this board for doing that.I wrote this in the other thread but I would absolutely love it if Prosser voted to uphold the Dane County judge's decision. Prosser's supposed to be an independent. It would be great, and a lesson to the Tea Partiers who poured money into his campaign that a supreme court justice can't be bought. It probably won't happen, but I so wish it would.
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Footballguy
It is quite a statement about the times we live in that a Justice is more influenced by politics and who sponsored him than what the law actually reads.I wrote this in the other thread but I would absolutely love it if Prosser voted to uphold the Dane County judge's decision. Prosser's supposed to be an independent. It would be great, and a lesson to the Tea Partiers who poured money into his campaign that a supreme court justice can't be bought. It probably won't happen, but I so wish it would.
timschochet
Footballguy
Also, Bogeys, my position would have been absolutely the same if it was Kloppenburg. I would have loved it just as much if Kloppenburg had been elected, and then voted to uphold the budget deal, because that would have been a lesson to the unions that justices can't be bought. I have no greater love for the unions than I do for the Tea Party. But the larger point is, I hate this whole idea of pouring money into campaigns for supreme court justices, figuring they will rule on decisions in the way you want them to. It seems to me a disgusting perversion of our system of government.
Bogeys
Footballguy
Never said you were, just that the way you are coming across whenever a subject involving the Tea Party is brought up you pretty much become a ##### on the subject. Read through just this thread and what you said about them, then replace the Tea Party with a group you agree with and tell me how it would come across if someone else was posting the exact same things.I'm not attacking any individual tea party members- only the group as a whole. And even then I'm only attacking their positions and tactics.You know, when it comes to the Tea Party you are becoming a giant #####. You can disagree without doing that...in fact I think I have seen you chastise people on this board for doing that.I wrote this in the other thread but I would absolutely love it if Prosser voted to uphold the Dane County judge's decision. Prosser's supposed to be an independent. It would be great, and a lesson to the Tea Partiers who poured money into his campaign that a supreme court justice can't be bought. It probably won't happen, but I so wish it would.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Even more of a statement that Tim wants him to rule a certain way (and you seem to be ok with that) more because of what it looks like politically than for him to actually review the law and rules in place and determine if they were followed.It is quite a statement about the times we live in that a Justice is more influenced by politics and who sponsored him than what the law actually reads.I wrote this in the other thread but I would absolutely love it if Prosser voted to uphold the Dane County judge's decision. Prosser's supposed to be an independent. It would be great, and a lesson to the Tea Partiers who poured money into his campaign that a supreme court justice can't be bought. It probably won't happen, but I so wish it would.
Bogeys
Footballguy
I am not even saying I disagree with your position (I actually think judges should be appointed....but I also think it should be a long time-frame and not a lifetime appointment as judges become too insulated then IMO), just the way you come across. Could just be me on this subject since I tend to agree with the fiscal side of their arguments, now if they would just get rid of all of the social baggage that the people who influence them (Palin, Huckster, etc) push I would be on board myself.
sho nuff
Footballguy
So basically...you have no care for what the actual law/rule is in this case...you hope a judge would rule based on the political message it would send.Sad...very sad.
This is what happens when you spend all day watching the 24 hour news cycle.
timschochet
Footballguy
I have no idea what the law should be in this case. It seems to me that if there was an objective right and wrong here, then the court would be unanimous in it's decision. But since everyone seems to assume this is going to be decided in a completely partisan fashion with liberal justices voting one way and conservative justices voting another, when stuff like that happens I stop worrying about what is the "right" decision- there is no "right" decision in that case, there is only a political decision decided by the majority. So absolutely I am most concerned in such an instance with the poltical message being sent, and the message I would like most sent is, "We can't be bought."
So you would prefer he use his position to teach those naughty Tea Party types a lesson than to rule based on the legal issue before him? I really don't understand your blind hatred for the Tea Party. Yes, they appeal to populist sentiment sometimes, but so do La Raza and all sorts of other groups that don't draw your ire.ETA: I see that you've more or less answered the first question now. I still don't understand the hatred for the Tea Party. You seem to hate them much more than other, similar groups.I wrote this in the other thread but I would absolutely love it if Prosser voted to uphold the Dane County judge's decision. Prosser's supposed to be an independent. It would be great, and a lesson to the Tea Partiers who poured money into his campaign that a supreme court justice can't be bought. It probably won't happen, but I so wish it would.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
But your post, that you reiterated and even said would be true (in a different turn) with Kloppenburg, states that you want it done partisan just to send an up yours. No matter what the rules or law say it should be.Im sorry, I worry about what the proper decision is based on the law...not what political message it would send.
timschochet
Footballguy
First off, La Raza is a bunch of nutcases. They are much worse than the Tea Party, but not large enough to have any kind of political significance. (It is true that because they were, a few years back, one of the only Latino organizations with national prominence, we're going to find that upcoming Latino Democratic politicians will have ties to this group, and I'm sure that will be used against them, unfairly IMO.) If La Raza had anywhere near the popularity of the Tea Party, then I would be just as vocal in my opposition. I don't hate the Tea Party, (I don't hate anyone in major American politics) but I don't like them at all. To me they are of the same vein as the Know Nothings and the supporters of Joseph McCarthy. Time and again throughout our history certain groups are able to combine simplistic conservativism with populism and become very powerful. It's true that liberals also have at times attempted to rely on populism, but somehow never with as much success as the conservative groups. Just as in the 1950s the McCarthy movement tried to capture the Republican party away from it's serious leaders and move it towards a form of extremism, today the Tea Party is trying to do the same thing. I think that's bad for America, so I oppose their efforts.So you would prefer he use his position to teach those naughty Tea Party types a lesson than to rule based on the legal issue before him? I really don't understand your blind hatred for the Tea Party. Yes, they appeal to populist sentiment sometimes, but so do La Raza and all sorts of other groups that don't draw your ire.ETA: I see that you've more or less answered the first question now. I still don't understand the hatred for the Tea Party. You seem to hate them much more than other, similar groups.I wrote this in the other thread but I would absolutely love it if Prosser voted to uphold the Dane County judge's decision. Prosser's supposed to be an independent. It would be great, and a lesson to the Tea Partiers who poured money into his campaign that a supreme court justice can't be bought. It probably won't happen, but I so wish it would.
Statorama
Footballguy
So you've already forgotten "hope and change"?
timschochet
Footballguy
Populist phrases are not the same as populist movements. But it was a good try though.
Statorama
Footballguy
If you're going to claim Obama didn't rely on populism to get elected, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't disagree with you. All presidents rely on a certain amount of populism to get elected, and Obama no less than anyone else, and perhaps to a certain degree more than any president since Reagan. But that's not what I was referring to. A populist MOVEMENT is very different from candidates who rely on populism. It's one thing to use generic sloganeering to help you get elected; it's quite another to base your poltical philosophy on generic, simplistic, extremist idealism. That's when it becomes dangerous, IMO.
Statorama
Footballguy
Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.
Maybe it's me, but I think I prefer the populist movement, in that they actually tell you what they believe and what their platform is, to an empty slogan with no beliefs or platform behind it. Not to say Obama doesn't have beliefs or a platform, but you wouldn't know what they are from "hope and change".
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Footballguy
When you are running a presidential campaign and your predecessor is one of the worst of all time - the "hope and change" slogan works well. But let's not forget that Obama had a platform and an agenda, but for some reason I can't recall McCain's.
McCain's was diametrically opposed to Obama's. I believe it was "change and hope".
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
More like "Grab your ankles and pray... my VP never has to be in charge."
sho nuff
Footballguy
So the same as Obama?
Statorama
Footballguy
Statorama
Footballguy
The union thuggery tour has moved on to Washington
Looks like the "goody-bag" is being taken away there too
Looks like the "goody-bag" is being taken away there too
BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
He is doing quite well with his agenda for higher oil and gas prices.'Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
snogger
Footballguy
snogger
Footballguy
As I mentioned before my wife works for the local school district.The other day, 15 teachers were given "possible" layoff notices. The explanation from the School board is that with Walkers Budget cuts, and the collective Bargaining bill stuck in limbo they have no choice then to prepare for layoffs to help cover the loss in revenue that would have been covered with the Collective Bargaining bill.One of the teachers came up to my wife 
about the layoffs to which my wife responded:
about the layoffs to which my wife responded:What she really thought about saying was:You saved your precious Collective Bargaining, for now, but what good does it do you if you are out of work??
Statorama
Footballguy
Tea Party Rally 4/16 at the Capitol
I'm telling my wife we're going there for opening day of the Farmers Market
I'm telling my wife we're going there for opening day of the Farmers Market
![[icon]](/data/avatars/s/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}