Scott Walker WI governor vs the Packers & teachers (3 Viewers)

[snogger]

I don't understand why more people can't see that unions have gained way too much power. I like the concept of unions but in practice I think that, for the most part, they're awful.

Whatever perverse power they have, its the same power the corporations have... buying influence from politicians. Thusly, gettings laws and regulations to benefit them.I dont understand why more people can't see that corporations have gained way too much power.

We do..Only issue is.. as a Tax payer I have no choice but to support the public employees, therefore supporting the Union Overlords that take money from those empoyees.

In regards to corporations/Private unions I have a choice to NOT buy their products if I don't want to, therefore choosing not to support those I feel I don't want to support.

See the difference??

You dont think your tax payments are going to the corporations who buy the law and regulation influence? You are kidding right?Have looked at he medical field? The miltary field? You will be hard pressed to find anything remotely bigger then those two.

One small step at a time.. It is time for a change, and that change has begun.. "Rome wasn't built in a day"

 

[Yankee23Fan]

"Rome wasn't built in a day"

* OHIO: Ohio's bill goes farther than Wisconsin's, prohibiting collective bargaining for 42,000 state workers plus 19,500 college system workers. For local governments, bargaining with unions representing some 300,000 workers including police, firefighters, and public school teachers, the bill takes healthcare and some other benefits out of the negotiating process. It denies them the right to strike.The bill passed the Senate March 1. The Ohio House of Representatives will hold at least one more week of hearings on the bill, according to the spokesman for Republican speaker William G. Batchelder. A date for a vote has not been set. Ohio Republican Governor John Kasich has said he supports the measure.* IDAHO: The Idaho state legislature has approved a bill to limit collective bargaining by public school teachers. The measure restricts collective bargaining to salaries and benefits, removing from negotiations such provisions as class sizes, teacher workload and promotions. Republican Governor Butch Otter was expected to sign it into law quickly.* IOWA: The state House of Representatives is debating a bill curbing collective bargaining rights for public workers that was passed by the labor committee. The bill would exclude health insurance from the scope of collective bargaining, along with other changes. Democrats who control the Senate said they do not intend to bring the bill up for debate.* MICHIGAN: Both chambers of the Michigan legislature have approved measures to give the state emergency powers to break union contracts to revive failing schools and cities. There are slight differences between the bills passed by the two chambers which must be reconciled. New Republican Governor Rick Snyder has said he supports the measure.* INDIANA: Republican state lawmakers are pushing several measures that curb organized labor influence. The state Senate passed a bill that will narrow the scope of public school teachers' collective bargaining rights. The measure still needs to be approved by the state House, but House Democrats have left the state to deny votes on bills they say restrict workers' rights. One bill would create a state-wide school voucher system.* NEW HAMPSHIRE: A right-to-work bill that refers only to public sector workers prohibits collective bargaining agreements that require employees to join labor unions. It also says that no public employee union is required to represent employees who elect not to join or pay dues. It passed the House and next goes to the Senate. Both legislative bodies have Republican majorities, but Gov. John Lynch, a Democrat, has said he does not support the bill.* KANSAS: The Kansas House has passed a bill that would outlaw employee payroll deductions for union dues and political action committees.* TENNESSEE: A Republican-backed state bill would end teachers' rights to negotiate their working conditions with boards of education through collective bargaining. The bill has passed through the Senate Education Committee.* OTHER STATES: Limits on public worker collective bargaining have been introduced in several other states as of last week, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. These include Colorado, Nebraska, Nevada, Oklahoma, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Washington, Alaska and Arizona.____________________These collective small steps are acting as one rather large one. Wait until California has no choice but to do it too.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Officially Signed.

 

[snogger]

"Rome wasn't built in a day"

* OHIO: Ohio's bill goes farther than Wisconsin's, prohibiting collective bargaining for 42,000 state workers plus 19,500 college system workers. For local governments, bargaining with unions representing some 300,000 workers including police, firefighters, and public school teachers, the bill takes healthcare and some other benefits out of the negotiating process. It denies them the right to strike.The bill passed the Senate March 1. The Ohio House of Representatives will hold at least one more week of hearings on the bill, according to the spokesman for Republican speaker William G. Batchelder. A date for a vote has not been set. Ohio Republican Governor John Kasich has said he supports the measure.* IDAHO: The Idaho state legislature has approved a bill to limit collective bargaining by public school teachers. The measure restricts collective bargaining to salaries and benefits, removing from negotiations such provisions as class sizes, teacher workload and promotions. Republican Governor Butch Otter was expected to sign it into law quickly.* IOWA: The state House of Representatives is debating a bill curbing collective bargaining rights for public workers that was passed by the labor committee. The bill would exclude health insurance from the scope of collective bargaining, along with other changes. Democrats who control the Senate said they do not intend to bring the bill up for debate.* MICHIGAN: Both chambers of the Michigan legislature have approved measures to give the state emergency powers to break union contracts to revive failing schools and cities. There are slight differences between the bills passed by the two chambers which must be reconciled. New Republican Governor Rick Snyder has said he supports the measure.* INDIANA: Republican state lawmakers are pushing several measures that curb organized labor influence. The state Senate passed a bill that will narrow the scope of public school teachers' collective bargaining rights. The measure still needs to be approved by the state House, but House Democrats have left the state to deny votes on bills they say restrict workers' rights. One bill would create a state-wide school voucher system.* NEW HAMPSHIRE: A right-to-work bill that refers only to public sector workers prohibits collective bargaining agreements that require employees to join labor unions. It also says that no public employee union is required to represent employees who elect not to join or pay dues. It passed the House and next goes to the Senate. Both legislative bodies have Republican majorities, but Gov. John Lynch, a Democrat, has said he does not support the bill.* KANSAS: The Kansas House has passed a bill that would outlaw employee payroll deductions for union dues and political action committees.* TENNESSEE: A Republican-backed state bill would end teachers' rights to negotiate their working conditions with boards of education through collective bargaining. The bill has passed through the Senate Education Committee.* OTHER STATES: Limits on public worker collective bargaining have been introduced in several other states as of last week, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. These include Colorado, Nebraska, Nevada, Oklahoma, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Washington, Alaska and Arizona.____________________These collective small steps are acting as one rather large one. Wait until California has no choice but to do it too.

 

[timschochet]

Progressives are angry and predicting that these measures will NOT help the Wisconsin economy nor provide jobs, but result in the opposite. This is very close to actually rooting for things to be worse. That bothers me when certain conservatives do it to Obama, and it bothers me now. Even if you are completely against what Walker has done, you should hope that the result is a revival of Wisconsin's economy. Whoever wants people to suffer in order to prove they were right about an argument is a pretty disgusting human being, IMO.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Progressives are angry and predicting that these measures will NOT help the Wisconsin economy nor provide jobs, but result in the opposite. This is very close to actually rooting for things to be worse.

No, actually it's not close to that at all. Making a prediction about the result of a particular policy is not the same thing as rooting for that particular result.

 

[timschochet]

Progressives are angry and predicting that these measures will NOT help the Wisconsin economy nor provide jobs, but result in the opposite. This is very close to actually rooting for things to be worse.

No, actually it's not close to that at all. Making a prediction about the result of a particular policy is not the same thing as rooting for that particular result.

Ivan, you're correct in literal terms. But I can't repeat here the tone that I'm hearing, that type of emotion that goes into making these remarks. I am 99% positive that many of these people are going to be disappointed if things actually improve in Wisconsin, especially if it can be linked to Walker's decisions.

 

[CrossEyed]

I don't understand why more people can't see that unions have gained way too much power. I like the concept of unions but in practice I think that, for the most part, they're awful.

Whatever perverse power they have, its the same power the corporations have... buying influence from politicians. Thusly, gettings laws and regulations to benefit them.I dont understand why more people can't see that corporations have gained way too much power.

OK, then let's just agree that the entire system is broken and forbid unions and corporations from giving money to any politicians. Limit contributions to individuals and put a cap on the amount.

All right, let's make this happen. Where do we start?

 

[Slapdash]

I don't understand why more people can't see that unions have gained way too much power. I like the concept of unions but in practice I think that, for the most part, they're awful.

Whatever perverse power they have, its the same power the corporations have... buying influence from politicians. Thusly, gettings laws and regulations to benefit them.I dont understand why more people can't see that corporations have gained way too much power.

OK, then let's just agree that the entire system is broken and forbid unions and corporations from giving money to any politicians. Limit contributions to individuals and put a cap on the amount.

You've got my vote.

 

[timschochet]

I don't understand why more people can't see that unions have gained way too much power. I like the concept of unions but in practice I think that, for the most part, they're awful.

Whatever perverse power they have, its the same power the corporations have... buying influence from politicians. Thusly, gettings laws and regulations to benefit them.I dont understand why more people can't see that corporations have gained way too much power.

OK, then let's just agree that the entire system is broken and forbid unions and corporations from giving money to any politicians. Limit contributions to individuals and put a cap on the amount.

All right, let's make this happen. Where do we start?

With the Constitution of the United States? The Supreme Court has said, recently, that you can't make this restriction, as it is a violation of the 1st Amendment. I don't agree, but I'm not a justice.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I don't understand why more people can't see that unions have gained way too much power. I like the concept of unions but in practice I think that, for the most part, they're awful.

Whatever perverse power they have, its the same power the corporations have... buying influence from politicians. Thusly, gettings laws and regulations to benefit them.I dont understand why more people can't see that corporations have gained way too much power.

OK, then let's just agree that the entire system is broken and forbid unions and corporations from giving money to any politicians. Limit contributions to individuals and put a cap on the amount.

All right, let's make this happen. Where do we start?

The first step is to propose a constitutional amendment to abolish the first amendment. Good luck.

 

[Slapdash]

Progressives are angry and predicting that these measures will NOT help the Wisconsin economy nor provide jobs, but result in the opposite. This is very close to actually rooting for things to be worse.

 

[uwgb96]

There was a woman who called in to one of the talk shows yesterday who actually believed that by now having to provide $5,000 into the pension, that the state wouldn't save any money because they wouldn't be taxing that income. She said the $5,000 was a wash.

 

[BoneYardDog]

I'm not sure how much traction the recall(s) will have. Once the local newspapers start reporting on the predicted savings in the school districts, the average person will lose interest in recalling these politicians. Union members, not so much - I'm just talking about your regular tax paying voter out there.

It is a HOT topic right now. Considering the Recall process will take 5+ months it will lose momentum fast. Once people realize this won't happen over night, and the months drag on, people will get bored with it and move onto the next issue.Unless the economy tanks, then all bets are off

I think you underestimate the union on this fight. They have all summer to keep this going.

I think you under estimate the taxpayers and that this will be going on in a half dozen other states now and in the near future...The unions only have so many disinterested people to bus in and make it look like they care...To few bribes to many causes to protest...Not many states will pull an Illinois and make it worse down the road and keep screwing the middle class forever...

 

[urbanhack]

I'm not sure how much traction the recall(s) will have. Once the local newspapers start reporting on the predicted savings in the school districts, the average person will lose interest in recalling these politicians. Union members, not so much - I'm just talking about your regular tax paying voter out there.

It is a HOT topic right now. Considering the Recall process will take 5+ months it will lose momentum fast. Once people realize this won't happen over night, and the months drag on, people will get bored with it and move onto the next issue.Unless the economy tanks, then all bets are off

I think you underestimate the union on this fight. They have all summer to keep this going.

To few bribes to many causes to protest...

huh?

 

[BoneYardDog]

I'm not sure how much traction the recall(s) will have. Once the local newspapers start reporting on the predicted savings in the school districts, the average person will lose interest in recalling these politicians. Union members, not so much - I'm just talking about your regular tax paying voter out there.

It is a HOT topic right now. Considering the Recall process will take 5+ months it will lose momentum fast. Once people realize this won't happen over night, and the months drag on, people will get bored with it and move onto the next issue.Unless the economy tanks, then all bets are off

I think you underestimate the union on this fight. They have all summer to keep this going.

To few bribes to many causes to protest...

huh?

I am sorry I did not mean to confuse you, to many homeless people to payoff to get them on a bus so they can be brought to the places to protest because they are faux outraged...

 

[snogger]

I don't understand why more people can't see that unions have gained way too much power. I like the concept of unions but in practice I think that, for the most part, they're awful.

Whatever perverse power they have, its the same power the corporations have... buying influence from politicians. Thusly, gettings laws and regulations to benefit them.I dont understand why more people can't see that corporations have gained way too much power.

OK, then let's just agree that the entire system is broken and forbid unions and corporations from giving money to any politicians. Limit contributions to individuals and put a cap on the amount.

All right, let's make this happen. Where do we start?

You are ETA - OK, maybe not.. But what the heck, while we are changing things let's get started on the tax system as a whole.

 

[Biabreakable]

30 pages in 2 days??

Thanks for all those countdown and meaningless food posts that added at least 5 of them.

I wanted to read something substantive. What was I thinking?

ETA- It was only 15 useless pages not 30. My bad.

 

[Biabreakable]

I agree compromise in and of itself is not inherently good or bad, but my comments are made in the context of the current situation in Wisconsin and the discussion in this thread. For the past three weeks, all we've heard about Walker is that he's not going to compromise - he's not even going to have a discussion with anyone, other than perhaps as a pretext to trick them to coming back to Wisconsin. That's been his M.O. Yesterday, he released some emails and suddenly he's all about meetings and reasonable offers and such, and now he wants credit for being the exact opposite of what he's claimed to be up until yesterday. I'm not quite ready to buy that, and would like to hear the other side of the story.

Additionally, it is worth understanding that Walker won with 52% of the vote last fall, and his first piece of legislation is something that was not part of his campaign and could well be the most divisive piece of legislation seen in Wisconsin in our lifetimes. He wanted this passed on two days notice. We've had massive public demonstrations, larger and longer than anything seen in this state since Vietnam; polls turning against him, the specter of recall elections and his own party senators pushing for compromise. Suddenly, he becomes mister reach-across-the-aisle guy, Mr. Reasonable. He should get credit for this?

The democrats were willing to accept the great majority of this legislation as of day 1, fully accepting of all fiscal measures in the bill that actually related to the budget. Walker is now throwing out this list of inconsequentials as a sign that he's compromising, but anyone can read the list of items and see its pretty thin and really without any meaningful substance. Its possible I suppose that the Dem senators will crack and cave as you suggest, but I think its at least equally likely that a few of Walker's own GOP senators will take a look outside and respond to their constituents. If that happens, its is potentially a "look out below" scenario for Walker and his administration.

You crack me up. Walker won, who cares with what percentage? He had 52%, Barrett had 46%. You should probably tell the whole story.The Repubs won in a landslide in all races. They should be allowed to do things their way just like Doyle.

But in your eyes as in most Liberals, Democracy only is good for YOUR party, not the Repubs.

It's disgusting how you liberals can back the cowards who ran away from letting Democracy work.

Pathetic

When you come down from your high horse I just wanted to remind you of the party of no.

What does this have to do with anything? The Republicans have the right to be obstructive, so long as it's within the rules. They have the right to filibuster, and to block everything, so long as it's in the rules. The Dems in Wisconsin broke the rules. Surely you can see the difference?

I am just looking at the end result and mocking the about not letting democracy work. Its comical.I will let lawyer types argue about the rules/laws. I am sure there is a distinct difference there I just don't care enough to know what it is.

The result of blocking legislation is the same. It doesn't get passed in a timely manner if it passes at all. Seems they found a way to get around the blocking this time.

 

[Sarnoff]

30 pages in 2 days??

Thanks for all those countdown and meaningless food posts that added at least 5 of them.

I wanted to read something substantive. What was I thinking?

24. Salt

Ever tried lightly salting a slice of cantaloupe? It's indescribably awesome. I can't wait for cantaloupe to come back in season so I can salt the #### out of some on a warm summer day.

 

[RCon]

I don't understand why more people can't see that unions have gained way too much power. I like the concept of unions but in practice I think that, for the most part, they're awful.

Whatever perverse power they have, its the same power the corporations have... buying influence from politicians. Thusly, gettings laws and regulations to benefit them.I dont understand why more people can't see that corporations have gained way too much power.

OK, then let's just agree that the entire system is broken and forbid unions and corporations from giving money to any politicians. Limit contributions to individuals and put a cap on the amount.

All right, let's make this happen. Where do we start?

The first step is to propose a constitutional amendment to abolish the first amendment. Good luck.

The good news is you only need to modify the 1st Amendment, not abolish the whole thing. That should make it much simpler.

 

[jamny]

I really don't think he needs to sign it in public, especially after it has already been officially signed.

 

[snogger]

I really don't think he needs to sign it in public, especially after it has already been officially signed.

Knowing everything the Left has done so far to stop this it probably is needed.Otherwise the left will challenge the bill saying since they never saw him sign it, it could not possibly have happened.

 

[jamny]

I really don't think he needs to sign it in public, especially after it has already been officially signed.

Knowing everything the Left has done so far to stop this it probably is needed.Otherwise the left will challenge the bill saying since they never saw him sign it, it could not possibly have happened.

I stand corrected.

 

[Biabreakable]

30 pages in 2 days??

Thanks for all those countdown and meaningless food posts that added at least 5 of them.

I wanted to read something substantive. What was I thinking?

24. Salt

Ever tried lightly salting a slice of cantaloupe? It's indescribably awesome. I can't wait for cantaloupe to come back in season so I can salt the #### out of some on a warm summer day.

Yeah thats hot!

 

[snogger]

30 pages in 2 days??

Thanks for all those countdown and meaningless food posts that added at least 5 of them.

I wanted to read something substantive. What was I thinking?

24. Salt

Ever tried lightly salting a slice of cantaloupe? It's indescribably awesome. I can't wait for cantaloupe to come back in season so I can salt the #### out of some on a warm summer day.

I thought everyone did this Brings more flavor out.

 

[phrozen]

I really don't think he needs to sign it in public, especially after it has already been officially signed.

did he sign every page with a new page like Obama and the Healthcare Bill?

 

[Shtaym Syek]

I really don't think he needs to sign it in public, especially after it has already been officially signed.

did he sign every page with a new page like Obama and the Healthcare Bill?

If you meant with a new pen, the President does this a lot. It's not new to Obama, or that bill.If you meant with a new page, that's some freaky ####.

 

[Johnnymac]

I'm not sure how much traction the recall(s) will have.

Once the local newspapers start reporting on the predicted savings in the school districts, the average person will lose interest in recalling these politicians. Union members, not so much - I'm just talking about your regular tax paying voter out there.

It is a HOT topic right now. Considering the Recall process will take 5+ months it will lose momentum fast.

Once people realize this won't happen over night, and the months drag on, people will get bored with it and move onto the next issue.

Unless the economy tanks, then all bets are off

I think you underestimate the union on this fight. They have all summer to keep this going.

I think you under estimate the taxpayers and that this will be going on in a half dozen other states now and in the near future...The unions only have so many disinterested people to bus in and make it look like they care...

To few bribes to many causes to protest...

Not many states will pull an Illinois and make it worse down the road and keep screwing the middle class forever...

The people that are being negatively affected are taxpayers too. Also, they ARE the middle class. At least they WERE.

 

[The Kerminator]

I heard they are trying to change the re-call rules to protect themselves.That would be as dirty as it comes. Some wack job is serioussly gonna make attempt on this guy.

Link please. There is a lot of misinformation being spread very thick out there. Can't believe people even believe most of it.

 

[sho nuff]

The people that are being negatively affected are taxpayers too. Also, they ARE the middle class. At least they WERE.

They are the middle class? All of it?Were? Nice gloom and doom there. Yeah...they can't be middle class anymore still making their $50,000 or so average salary (that according to the NEA).

 

[Johnnymac]

The people that are being negatively affected are taxpayers too. Also, they ARE the middle class. At least they WERE.

They are the middle class? All of it?Were? Nice gloom and doom there. Yeah...they can't be middle class anymore still making their $50,000 or so average salary (that according to the NEA).

You feel they are upper class? I'm really not a fan of unions, don't belong to one. I dislike politicians and corporations even more though. I do not think any of this was about your state budget. It's about power. Many of the people on the right seem to think this is a great day for your state but when you cut education and strip the teachers union of any rights, while at the same time cutting corporate tax rates, it's a recipe for disaster. Maybe not in the short term but in the long term it could be very devastating to your state. One of the main things people look at when deciding to re-locate is what kind of school system do you have? Is it good or bad? Companies look for that too because they want to hire an educated workforce. Good luck to you folks up there, you are going to need it.

 

[The Kerminator]

History of recall elections

Wisconsin recalls: Where local and national politics converge

By Craig Gilbert of the Journal Sentinel

March 11, 2011 11:01 a.m. |(149) Comments

Number of state lawmakers removed from office by recall in all of American history: 13.

Number of state lawmakers currently facing recall campaigns in Wisconsin: 16.

Those figures hint at the oddity and immensity of what’s going on in the Badger State. But it’s not just their breadth that makes the recall drives in Wisconsin unprecedented in American politics. It’s the national dimension they’ve taken on.

State lawmakers in America have been recalled from office over tax hikes, legislative pay raises, lying, corruption, sexual impropriety and collaborating with the other party. They’ve been recalled in California, Oregon, Idaho, Michigan and Wisconsin.

But none of those previous campaigns transcended personal, local or state politics. None were viewed by important interests on both sides as a defining battle in a big national struggle. None invited the kind of outside fundraising and advertizing we have begun to see here.

“This is much greater than the politics over the Wisconsin budget,” says Dan Smith, a University of Florida political scientist who did his doctoral work at Madison.

“No other recalls -- including the failed ones that have been launched and rejected as unconstitutional by the courts against US Senators and Congressmen-- have ever had the broad national overtones of the proposed Wisconsin one,” says Joshua Spivak, a senior fellow at the Hugh Carey Institute for Government Reform in New York, who has written extensively on the history of recalls.

 

[The Kerminator]

Pro-labor rally on Saturday in Madison

Saturday pro-labor rally set

By Bill Glauber of the Journal Sentinel

March 11, 2011 2:50 p.m. |(57) Comments

Madison - Assembly minority leader Peter Barca (D-Kenosha) said that up to 100,000 demonstrators may be in Madison for Saturday's pro-labor rally at the state Capitol.

"I expect the vast, overwhelming majority of people being courteous, being civil and seeking redress from their government," Barca said Friday.

The 14 Democratic state Senators who fled to Illinois in an attempt to block Gov. Scott Walker's budget-repair bill are due to be at Saturday's AFL-CIO rally at the state Capitol, according to a statement.

Farmers on tractors are due to set up in Capitol Square at 10 a.m., with music beginning at 2 p.m. and speeches starting at 3 p.m. Among those expected to speak are Green Bay native and actor Tony Shalhoub and Mary Bell, head of the state teachers union.

I'm sure the AWOL senators will be riding into Madison to a hero's welcome.

 

[Statorama]

his first piece of legislation is something that was not part of his campaign

Most of the posts I've read of yours on this subject are laughable nonsense, but I couldn't let this one go without commenting.Governor Walker ran on balancing the budget of Wisconsin and bringing Wisconsin back to fiscal sanity without laying people off and without raising taxes.

He is doing exactly what he promised he would do and more. His collective bargaining reforms will help balance the budget and restore fiscal sanity to the state, without laying people off or raising taxes. If you don't like the way he's going about delivering the promises he made, then take issue with that. But don't spit out a lie that he didn't campaign on exactly what he's doing.

If you're moved by some bussed in protesters and a bunch of UW-Madison students that had nothing better to do than hang out, then you're just one of those uninformed meat heads I'm glad I'm helping.

 

[Statorama]

I'm sure the AWOL senators will be riding into Madison to a hero's welcome.

Exactly why I'm glad Governor Walker removed the stench of public employee unions from the state.Only a union worker would applaud someone for not doing their job while still getting paid for it.Disgusting.

 

[sho nuff]

The people that are being negatively affected are taxpayers too. Also, they ARE the middle class. At least they WERE.

They are the middle class? All of it?Were? Nice gloom and doom there. Yeah...they can't be middle class anymore still making their $50,000 or so average salary (that according to the NEA).

You feel they are upper class? I'm really not a fan of unions, don't belong to one. I dislike politicians and corporations even more though. I do not think any of this was about your state budget. It's about power. Many of the people on the right seem to think this is a great day for your state but when you cut education and strip the teachers union of any rights, while at the same time cutting corporate tax rates, it's a recipe for disaster. Maybe not in the short term but in the long term it could be very devastating to your state. One of the main things people look at when deciding to re-locate is what kind of school system do you have? Is it good or bad? Companies look for that too because they want to hire an educated workforce. Good luck to you folks up there, you are going to need it.

Nothing in what I said had them in the upper class.What I said was to clarify your statement that they were the middle class. They are certainly part of it...but not "all of it" is what I was getting at. That and your over the top "or at least they were" was ridiculous.Sure its about power, but there is a ton of $$$ implications with this...so in the end, it does have large effects on the budget.They did not cut education.They did strip the union rights.You might want to read up on what corporate tax rates were actually cut.Cutting those is no real disaster. There are things built in to ensure good things for the state (like job creation).In addition, not cutting them leads to some bad things...like businesses (and the jobs that go with them) leaving the state for another that will give them tax breaks (and someone will).But you seem to think cutting union bargaining = making the school system worse automatically.To that I again say

 

[sho nuff]

I'm sure the AWOL senators will be riding into Madison to a hero's welcome.

And that disgusts me.

 

[The Kerminator]

I'm sure the AWOL senators will be riding into Madison to a hero's welcome.

And that disgusts me.

That disgusts me too but you know it is going to happen. Why else are they still hanging out in Illinois?I don't suppose we could get Illinois to keep them? I'd even take two dozen Bears fans in exchange.

 

[The Kerminator]

First you have the Democrats skipping to another state.

You've got the death threats to the Republican Senators and Gov. Walker.

You've got the democratic senators chanting shame and one of them telling a fellow assemblyman "You're f***ing dead"

You've got the protestors overtaking the capitol.

And now you have the unions threatening to boycott the WI businesses that supported governor Walker and calling for them to oppose Gov. Walker's efforts by March 17th or else.

Letter to M&I Bank

Sheboygan T-shirt maker threatened by Two Rivers Education Association

 

[Johnnymac]

The people that are being negatively affected are taxpayers too. Also, they ARE the middle class. At least they WERE.

They are the middle class? All of it?Were? Nice gloom and doom there. Yeah...they can't be middle class anymore still making their $50,000 or so average salary (that according to the NEA).

You feel they are upper class? I'm really not a fan of unions, don't belong to one. I dislike politicians and corporations even more though. I do not think any of this was about your state budget. It's about power. Many of the people on the right seem to think this is a great day for your state but when you cut education and strip the teachers union of any rights, while at the same time cutting corporate tax rates, it's a recipe for disaster. Maybe not in the short term but in the long term it could be very devastating to your state. One of the main things people look at when deciding to re-locate is what kind of school system do you have? Is it good or bad? Companies look for that too because they want to hire an educated workforce. Good luck to you folks up there, you are going to need it.

Nothing in what I said had them in the upper class.What I said was to clarify your statement that they were the middle class. They are certainly part of it...but not "all of it" is what I was getting at. That and your over the top "or at least they were" was ridiculous.Sure its about power, but there is a ton of $$$ implications with this...so in the end, it does have large effects on the budget.They did not cut education.They did strip the union rights.You might want to read up on what corporate tax rates were actually cut.Cutting those is no real disaster. There are things built in to ensure good things for the state (like job creation).In addition, not cutting them leads to some bad things...like businesses (and the jobs that go with them) leaving the state for another that will give them tax breaks (and someone will).But you seem to think cutting union bargaining = making the school system worse automatically.To that I again say

No, I didnt mean they were the whole middle class. Your governor is talking about saving the middle class, the people that are negatively affected are middle class. I still do not believe that any of this was about your state budget. It seems that if it was then Walker would have agreed to the financial concessions from the beginning. Like I said earlier, this may help in the short term, in the long term, not so much.

 

[timschochet]

First you have the Democrats skipping to another state.

You've got the death threats to the Republican Senators and Gov. Walker.

You've got the democratic senators chanting shame and one of them telling a fellow assemblyman "You're f***ing dead"

You've got the protestors overtaking the capitol.

And now you have the unions threatening to boycott the WI businesses that supported governor Walker and calling for them to oppose Gov. Walker's efforts by March 17th or else.

Letter to M&I Bank

Sheboygan T-shirt maker threatened by Two Rivers Education Association

Just stupid. Actually beyond stupid, asinine. What do they hope to accomplish?

 

[timschochet]

I don't understand why more people can't see that unions have gained way too much power. I like the concept of unions but in practice I think that, for the most part, they're awful.

Whatever perverse power they have, its the same power the corporations have... buying influence from politicians. Thusly, gettings laws and regulations to benefit them.I dont understand why more people can't see that corporations have gained way too much power.

OK, then let's just agree that the entire system is broken and forbid unions and corporations from giving money to any politicians. Limit contributions to individuals and put a cap on the amount.

All right, let's make this happen. Where do we start?

With the Constitution of the United States? The Supreme Court has said, recently, that you can't make this restriction, as it is a violation of the 1st Amendment. I don't agree, but I'm not a justice.

Links please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission

 

[Sarnoff]

23. Cannonball Run

I hate this movie. The ending makes no sense. We hear all about the staggered start at the beginning, but that's totally forgotten at the finish line. How the #### does this happen? Did no one... the writer, the director, the editor, the cast, the producers... none of them read the script or watched this movie twice? How do you not notice the entire ####### premise contradicts the ending? How is that at all possible? I mean, unless one director and crew shot the first half of the movie as improv, and a second director and crew shot the second half of the movie as improv, and all of the actors had suffered either concussions or group amnesia in between, and the editor and post crew had Alzheimers and or were deaf, could this even happen. I'm so insulted that a movie studio released a film so broken that I've refused to see Cannonball Run 2, even though I'm pretty ######### curious to find out if 1) they address this at all, or 2) made the same mistake again.

 

[The Kerminator]

First you have the Democrats skipping to another state.

You've got the death threats to the Republican Senators and Gov. Walker.

You've got the democratic senators chanting shame and one of them telling a fellow assemblyman "You're f***ing dead"

You've got the protestors overtaking the capitol.

And now you have the unions threatening to boycott the WI businesses that supported governor Walker and calling for them to oppose Gov. Walker's efforts by March 17th or else.

Letter to M&I Bank

Sheboygan T-shirt maker threatened by Two Rivers Education Association

Just stupid. Actually beyond stupid, asinine. What do they hope to accomplish?

The actions of the democrats, protesters and unions are getting beyond ridiculous.More:

Boycott list of WI businesses

 

[The Kerminator]

GOP Senators whisked away after vote

GOP senators whisked away in Madison bus after vote

By Patrick Marley of the Journal Sentinel

March 11, 2011 6:34 p.m. |(85) Comments

Madison — Amid unprecedented protests, Republican lawmakers have at times been escorted by officers out of the Capitol through a tunnel - and in one case this week were given their own bus to get away from demonstrators.

Shortly after abruptly voting to sharply curtail collective bargaining for public employees, senators boarded a Madison city bus and Capitol Police Chief Charles Tubbs stationed himself near the driver to tell him where to go, according to video from the bus released Friday.

They boarded the bus after they were taken through a tunnel under W. Main St. that leads to the Risser Justice Center.

Protesters quickly surrounded the bus, banged on it and briefly followed it as it drove away from the Capitol.

The Madison city bus was one that had already been taken off its regular route to drive law enforcement officers to and from the Capitol, said Chris Klein, an aide to Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz.

The bus took senators to the Wisconsin National Guard headquarters about 5 miles from the Capitol. Senators were then individually driven back to the Capitol area by law enforcement so they could get their cars, said Sen. Rob Cowles (R-Green Bay).

Facing so many protesters "was a surreal experience," Cowles said.

Tim Donovan, a spokesman for the Capitol Police, said he could not comment on why the senators were taken away by bus or any other security matters. Republican senators have faced death threats amid the protests, which have been massive but peaceful.

The senators were initially quiet as protesters yelled at them outside the bus, but grew chatty and jovial - at times laughing boisterously - as they headed away from the Capitol.

A little over a mile into the trip, Cowles asked if he could get off the bus at the Avenue Bar. Tubbs initially arranged to drop Cowles off there, but then told him that the bus was being followed. It was unclear if those following the bus were protesters, staff to the senators or others.

"There are people following us? Forget it then," Cowles said.

Very courageous vote by the Republican senators. Quite a contrast from the democratic senators that chose to flee.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

Well first off, no thanks Boneyard Dog, I have been so wrong on my predictions on this matter that I am not going to make any bets on it.

Now, to justify my statement that people on both sides are guilty, I have come up with a top 10 list of those I personally blame for this mess, and I will count it down here. Before I start, I just want to point out that neither the Koch brothers nor President Obama will be on this list: for some reason these guys get blamed consistently and I don't see it. But here goes:

10. The "moderate" Republican legislators

These are the guys who, per reports, wanted to negotiate with the unions and trade the collective bargaining for some stricter budgetary agreements. But the hardliners wouldn't have that, and in the end, these guys caved, at least all but one of them. Pretty weak, and I predict they'll pay a political price for it.

You're seriously going to do this one point per post?

He really needs punched in the face. Hard and often.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

First you have the Democrats skipping to another state.

You've got the death threats to the Republican Senators and Gov. Walker.

You've got the democratic senators chanting shame and one of them telling a fellow assemblyman "You're f***ing dead"

You've got the protestors overtaking the capitol.

And now you have the unions threatening to boycott the WI businesses that supported governor Walker and calling for them to oppose Gov. Walker's efforts by March 17th or else.

Letter to M&I Bank

Sheboygan T-shirt maker threatened by Two Rivers Education Association

Just stupid. Actually beyond stupid, asinine.

Exactly, those are my feelings about your lame Top 10 posts in this thread.

 

[CrossEyed]

First you have the Democrats skipping to another state.

You've got the death threats to the Republican Senators and Gov. Walker.

You've got the democratic senators chanting shame and one of them telling a fellow assemblyman "You're f***ing dead"

You've got the protestors overtaking the capitol.

And now you have the unions threatening to boycott the WI businesses that supported governor Walker and calling for them to oppose Gov. Walker's efforts by March 17th or else.

Letter to M&I Bank

Sheboygan T-shirt maker threatened by Two Rivers Education Association

Typical union thug mentality.

 

[Da Guru]

This all started with the way the healthcare bill was handled.