Scott Walker WI governor vs the Packers & teachers (1 Viewer)

[Mr.Pack]

The hearing on whether the open meetings law was violated and whether what they passed was non fiscal(a requirement for how they passed the law) is going on now.

Open meetings requires a 24 hour notice or 2 hours in an emergency but heard neither was met.

Again...here is my guess based on where this hearing is..."your" side wins this one...you jump in proclaiming victory. However, on appeal, the governor wins out later and its made a binding law....you cry foul.

Not at all. What I would like is the voters to decide if getting rid of collective bargaining is what they really want. I'd like to see a referendum, Walker never ran on that.

My side is let the voters of the state decide this, but all we have right now is recalls. I wish they'd put it on the ballot.

The never ran on it stuff is so tired and useless that it's basically gotten to the point that the people saying it have no voice worth listening to. The voters did decide. There was an election. Elections have consequences. This is not a direct democracy.

Great point.Former Gov. Doyle didn't run on ramming a $2 BILLION in tax hikes on the State of WI. But hey, he was a DEMOCRAT, so it's all good, right?

Fat chance cr8f will comment on that. See cr8v has no effing clue about what is happening, he is just reading from liberal sites and repeating everything he hears. He has no clue whatsoever.

 

[Mr.Pack]

The hearing on whether the open meetings law was violated and whether what they passed was non fiscal(a requirement for how they passed the law) is going on now.Open meetings requires a 24 hour notice or 2 hours in an emergency but heard neither was met.

Again...here is my guess based on where this hearing is..."your" side wins this one...you jump in proclaiming victory. However, on appeal, the governor wins out later and its made a binding law....you cry foul.

Not at all. What I would like is the voters to decide if getting rid of collective bargaining is what they really want. I'd like to see a referendum, Walker never ran on that.My side is let the voters of the state decide this, but all we have right now is recalls. I wish they'd put it on the ballot.

The never ran on it stuff is so tired and useless that it's basically gotten to the point that the people saying it have no voice worth listening to. The voters did decide. There was an election. Elections have consequences. This is not a direct democracy.

I don't think it's tired at all. There's a reasonable expectation that politicians will outline their intentions prior to voting, and if they take up an extreme position following the election they should be prepared to face an extreme backlash. I'm not even a particular fan of public unions, but anyone who doesn't recognize why this is too important an issue to obfuscate with balancing a state budget is being either intentionally or unintentionally obtuse.

It's not an extreme postition. Most states don't have it and neither does the federal government. The extreme actions have been taken by the democratic party.

If it's not an extreme position, why didn't he bring it up during months of campaigning? It's the first thing he did to allegedly start balancing the budget (after cutting taxes to make the deficits worse of course). Seems like he might have thought to bring it up if it's not a controversial or extreme action.

Why didn't Doyle bring up the $2 BILLION dollars in tax hikes?Know wtf you are talking about before you post here.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Why didn't Doyle bring up the $2 BILLION dollars in tax hikes?Know wtf you are talking about before you post here.

You mean when he was running in 2006? Before the recession caused the vast majority of the budget problems the states are currently facing? Also, why not mention the billions in dollars in savings from government worker furloughs he helped negotiate?

 

[sho nuff]

The hearing on whether the open meetings law was violated and whether what they passed was non fiscal(a requirement for how they passed the law) is going on now.Open meetings requires a 24 hour notice or 2 hours in an emergency but heard neither was met.

Again...here is my guess based on where this hearing is..."your" side wins this one...you jump in proclaiming victory. However, on appeal, the governor wins out later and its made a binding law....you cry foul.

Not at all. What I would like is the voters to decide if getting rid of collective bargaining is what they really want. I'd like to see a referendum, Walker never ran on that.My side is let the voters of the state decide this, but all we have right now is recalls. I wish they'd put it on the ballot.

The never ran on it stuff is so tired and useless that it's basically gotten to the point that the people saying it have no voice worth listening to. The voters did decide. There was an election. Elections have consequences. This is not a direct democracy.

I don't think it's tired at all. There's a reasonable expectation that politicians will outline their intentions prior to voting, and if they take up an extreme position following the election they should be prepared to face an extreme backlash. I'm not even a particular fan of public unions, but anyone who doesn't recognize why this is too important an issue to obfuscate with balancing a state budget is being either intentionally or unintentionally obtuse.

Backlash should be in the form of not winning re-election.A politician cannot outline every single plan (granted, collective bargaining is a pretty big piece).But backlash should not be in the form of runaway senators and cries for recalls because people don't like something.Government should not and cannot run that way.

 

[sho nuff]

Why didn't Doyle bring up the $2 BILLION dollars in tax hikes?Know wtf you are talking about before you post here.

You mean when he was running in 2006? Before the recession caused the vast majority of the budget problems the states are currently facing? Also, why not mention the billions in dollars in savings from government worker furloughs he helped negotiate?

Many states were in trouble before 2006...and others saw it coming before any recession was really hitting.It was not a totally unforeseen issue.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Why didn't Doyle bring up the $2 BILLION dollars in tax hikes?Know wtf you are talking about before you post here.

You mean when he was running in 2006? Before the recession caused the vast majority of the budget problems the states are currently facing? Also, why not mention the billions in dollars in savings from government worker furloughs he helped negotiate?

Many states were in trouble before 2006...and others saw it coming before any recession was really hitting.It was not a totally unforeseen issue.

Doyle couldn't wait to raise taxes.How did that work out for the Dems?

 

[timschochet]

(CNN) -- A Wisconsin judge issued a temporary restraining order Friday halting the state's controversial budget repair law that curbs the union power of most public employees, the Dane County district attorney's office said.

Gov. Scott Walker, who championed the measure and signed it into law last week, said he was confident the initiative would eventually prevail in the court system, a spokeswoman said.

"This legislation is still working through the legal process. We are confident the provisions of the budget repair bill will become law in the near future," Cullen Werwie, the governor's press secretary, said in a statement.

Wisconsin Senate Democrats called the law, which reduces the collective bargaining rights of most state employees, an attack on workers and filed a complaint with the Dane County district attorney, claiming that the Senate's Republican-led vote violated Wisconsin's open meetings law.

The ruling by Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi came in response to a lawsuit filed by District Attorney Ismael Ozanne, charging such a violation of the law.

The judge's order enjoins Wisconsin Secretary of State Douglas La Follette from publishing the new law "until further order of the court," according to court documents.

Secretary-Treasurer Stephanie Bloomingdale of the Wisconsin AFL-CIO praised the ruling.

"In Wisconsin, we have a democracy, and rules need to be followed. No one is above the law, including Scott Walker," Bloomingdale said. "This is definitely a move in the right direction for working people in Wisconsin to uphold worker rights and also to uphold democracy in Wisconsin and America."

During the controversy over the governor's budget repair bill, Democratic state senators fled the state in protest. They returned Saturday to cheering crowds and vowed to continue the fight.

"People think that this is a picnic for us. They're wrong. But I'll tell you something, we did it for the right reasons," state Sen. Dave Hansen said Saturday. "And the fight will continue. It does not end with that vote."

The senators returned to Wisconsin just one day after Walker signed the bill into law.

Republicans cleared the final hurdle to the controversial proposal last week, passing the bill after the state's GOP-controlled Senate approved an amended version of the measure -- despite the absence of the 14 Democratic senators who fled the state to prevent a necessary quorum of 20 votes.

The amended bill stripped the spending components out of the original proposal, enabling lawmakers to pass the measure with fewer votes.

GOP lawmakers say the law will help Wisconsin close a $137 million budget shortfall with a plan that requires public workers, with the exception of police and firefighters, to cover more of their retirement plan contributions and health care premiums.

Raises will be tied to the rate of inflation, unless state voters approve an exception. The legislation also requires unions to hold a new certification vote every year, and unions will no longer be allowed to collect dues from workers' paychecks.

Unions mobilized their supporters to oppose the bill, drawing tens of thousands of people to rallies opposing Walker and supporting the fugitive Democrats.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

The hearing on whether the open meetings law was violated and whether what they passed was non fiscal(a requirement for how they passed the law) is going on now.Open meetings requires a 24 hour notice or 2 hours in an emergency but heard neither was met.

Again...here is my guess based on where this hearing is..."your" side wins this one...you jump in proclaiming victory. However, on appeal, the governor wins out later and its made a binding law....you cry foul.

Not at all. What I would like is the voters to decide if getting rid of collective bargaining is what they really want. I'd like to see a referendum, Walker never ran on that.My side is let the voters of the state decide this, but all we have right now is recalls. I wish they'd put it on the ballot.

The never ran on it stuff is so tired and useless that it's basically gotten to the point that the people saying it have no voice worth listening to. The voters did decide. There was an election. Elections have consequences. This is not a direct democracy.

I don't think it's tired at all. There's a reasonable expectation that politicians will outline their intentions prior to voting, and if they take up an extreme position following the election they should be prepared to face an extreme backlash. I'm not even a particular fan of public unions, but anyone who doesn't recognize why this is too important an issue to obfuscate with balancing a state budget is being either intentionally or unintentionally obtuse.

Backlash should be in the form of not winning re-election.A politician cannot outline every single plan (granted, collective bargaining is a pretty big piece).But backlash should not be in the form of runaway senators and cries for recalls because people don't like something.Government should not and cannot run that way.

I agree actually. I was fine with the Senators going away for a few days to bring national attention to the issue, but thought they should have come back and voted within the week.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Tractor Driver at Wisconsin Protest Had No License

Updated: Wednesday, 16 Mar 2011, 2:58 PM EDT

Published : Wednesday, 16 Mar 2011, 2:32 PM EDT

(NewsCore) - A Wisconsin man who drove a tractor around the state's Capitol during weekend protests of Gov. Scott Walker's "budget repair bill" could be facing legal trouble Wednesday after it was revealed that he does not have a driver's license.

Tod Pulvermacher lost his license after he was busted four times for drunk driving, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reported. His final conviction, on July 2, resulted in the suspension of Pulvermacher's driver's license for 33 months, the report said.

During Saturday's protest at the state Capitol in Madison, Pulvermacher pulled a manure spreader with a sign reading "WALKERS BILL BELONGS HERE," behind it, a reference to the passage of the so-called "budget repair bill" that stripped the state's public employees of most of their collective bargaining powers.

Although he was met with cheers from the crowd gathered at the Capitol, it is illegal to operate a tractor in the state without a license, the report said.

Republican Gov. Scott Walker signed the controversial bill into law last week.

 

[Johnnymac]

The hearing on whether the open meetings law was violated and whether what they passed was non fiscal(a requirement for how they passed the law) is going on now.Open meetings requires a 24 hour notice or 2 hours in an emergency but heard neither was met.

Again...here is my guess based on where this hearing is..."your" side wins this one...you jump in proclaiming victory. However, on appeal, the governor wins out later and its made a binding law....you cry foul.

Not at all. What I would like is the voters to decide if getting rid of collective bargaining is what they really want. I'd like to see a referendum, Walker never ran on that.My side is let the voters of the state decide this, but all we have right now is recalls. I wish they'd put it on the ballot.

The never ran on it stuff is so tired and useless that it's basically gotten to the point that the people saying it have no voice worth listening to. The voters did decide. There was an election. Elections have consequences. This is not a direct democracy.

I don't think it's tired at all. There's a reasonable expectation that politicians will outline their intentions prior to voting, and if they take up an extreme position following the election they should be prepared to face an extreme backlash. I'm not even a particular fan of public unions, but anyone who doesn't recognize why this is too important an issue to obfuscate with balancing a state budget is being either intentionally or unintentionally obtuse.

It's not an extreme postition. Most states don't have it and neither does the federal government. The extreme actions have been taken by the democratic party.

If it's not an extreme position, why didn't he bring it up during months of campaigning? It's the first thing he did to allegedly start balancing the budget (after cutting taxes to make the deficits worse of course). Seems like he might have thought to bring it up if it's not a controversial or extreme action.

Why didn't Doyle bring up the $2 BILLION dollars in tax hikes?Know wtf you are talking about before you post here.

Why don't you answer his question without asking another one?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I answered this question earlier in the thread. No politician would or should be dumb enough to run on specifics.

"I am going to fix the budget" pulls in a lot of votes. Because who is AGAINST that?

"I am going to fix the budget by tearing down unions" kills your chances.

Everyone is all for fixing the budget. In reality, that $$ is going to come from somewhere. Everybody is okay fixing things until they realize that money is coming from their wallet.

 

[Mr.Pack]

The hearing on whether the open meetings law was violated and whether what they passed was non fiscal(a requirement for how they passed the law) is going on now.Open meetings requires a 24 hour notice or 2 hours in an emergency but heard neither was met.

Again...here is my guess based on where this hearing is..."your" side wins this one...you jump in proclaiming victory. However, on appeal, the governor wins out later and its made a binding law....you cry foul.

Not at all. What I would like is the voters to decide if getting rid of collective bargaining is what they really want. I'd like to see a referendum, Walker never ran on that.My side is let the voters of the state decide this, but all we have right now is recalls. I wish they'd put it on the ballot.

The never ran on it stuff is so tired and useless that it's basically gotten to the point that the people saying it have no voice worth listening to. The voters did decide. There was an election. Elections have consequences. This is not a direct democracy.

I don't think it's tired at all. There's a reasonable expectation that politicians will outline their intentions prior to voting, and if they take up an extreme position following the election they should be prepared to face an extreme backlash. I'm not even a particular fan of public unions, but anyone who doesn't recognize why this is too important an issue to obfuscate with balancing a state budget is being either intentionally or unintentionally obtuse.

It's not an extreme postition. Most states don't have it and neither does the federal government. The extreme actions have been taken by the democratic party.

If it's not an extreme position, why didn't he bring it up during months of campaigning? It's the first thing he did to allegedly start balancing the budget (after cutting taxes to make the deficits worse of course). Seems like he might have thought to bring it up if it's not a controversial or extreme action.

Why didn't Doyle bring up the $2 BILLION dollars in tax hikes?Know wtf you are talking about before you post here.

Why don't you answer his question without asking another one?

If anyone followed this race from the beginning, they would know that answer.

 

[jonessed]

The hearing on whether the open meetings law was violated and whether what they passed was non fiscal(a requirement for how they passed the law) is going on now.Open meetings requires a 24 hour notice or 2 hours in an emergency but heard neither was met.

Again...here is my guess based on where this hearing is..."your" side wins this one...you jump in proclaiming victory. However, on appeal, the governor wins out later and its made a binding law....you cry foul.

Not at all. What I would like is the voters to decide if getting rid of collective bargaining is what they really want. I'd like to see a referendum, Walker never ran on that.My side is let the voters of the state decide this, but all we have right now is recalls. I wish they'd put it on the ballot.

The never ran on it stuff is so tired and useless that it's basically gotten to the point that the people saying it have no voice worth listening to. The voters did decide. There was an election. Elections have consequences. This is not a direct democracy.

Elections have consequences. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If people don't like the new changes there are a couple of elections coming up where they can elect people that will reverse course. That's how this works.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I answered this question earlier in the thread. No politician would or should be dumb enough to run on specifics.

"I am going to fix the budget" pulls in a lot of votes. Because who is AGAINST that?

"I am going to fix the budget by tearing down unions" kills your chances.

Everyone is all for fixing the budget. In reality, that $$ is going to come from somewhere. Everybody is okay fixing things until they realize that money is coming from their wallet.

Seriously? Politifact is tracking over 500 specific platform initiatives from Obama's 2008 campaign.

And more than 60 from Republican leaders from the past election.

I know it's a common refrain that candidates don't run on more than Hope and Change, or drill, baby, drill; but when educated voters start accepting nothing more than platitudes and sound bites as the basis for their voting decisions, I'm seriously concerned.

Of course I suppose it's only one more step removed from people picking whichever news channel is going to tell them what they want to hear.

 

[dparker713]

I answered this question earlier in the thread. No politician would or should be dumb enough to run on specifics.

"I am going to fix the budget" pulls in a lot of votes. Because who is AGAINST that?

"I am going to fix the budget by tearing down unions" kills your chances.

Everyone is all for fixing the budget. In reality, that $$ is going to come from somewhere. Everybody is okay fixing things until they realize that money is coming from their wallet.

Seriously? Politifact is tracking over 500 specific platform initiatives from Obama's 2008 campaign.

And more than 60 from Republican leaders from the past election.

I know it's a common refrain that candidates don't run on more than Hope and Change, or drill, baby, drill; but when educated voters start accepting nothing more than platitudes and sound bites as the basis for their voting decisions, I'm seriously concerned.

Of course I suppose it's only one more step removed from people picking whichever news channel is going to tell them what they want to hear.

Its simple. We elect people. These people make decisions in our government. They are not legally required to disclose how the will decide on each issue, even if they could foresee the issue, nor are they required to vote in a manner consistent with their public declarations. This is what a representative government is all about.

 

[bear]

Just heard a temporary restraining order against the republican move was ordered.

LINK

BREAKING: Wisconsin judge grants restraining order blocking enactment of Walker's anti-union bill!

What next? I'm not a lawyer but would think they could try and pass the original bill blocked by the democrats but need to have 24 hours notice.

So does that mean a road trip to Illinois again for the Dems so they can hide?

No it means that the only thing that matters in this world is what the Democrats want.####### pathetic.

Why do they hold elections again?

What an absolute joke.

Whoa.. Have a Drink there pack and relax It's just a Tempory injunction, the vote wasn't thrown out..

Besides, it was a 99% chance this would happen.. It was held in Dane COunty after all..

I know, but it's bull####.Run away like little babies, scream kick your feet and pound your fists, and get your way.

Pathetic.

The most pathetic thing about this whole situation is the cowardice of Walker and the other pubs. If you want to strip people of their rights have the balls to run on that issue. The fact that the protests against Walker have been the largest in WI history should make it clear that it is a massive issue to a whole lot of folks. Yet the pubs didn't have the nads to run on the issue. The ones eligible for recall should be recalled and hopefully will be.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

bear - it's not a right.

 

[bear]

The hearing on whether the open meetings law was violated and whether what they passed was non fiscal(a requirement for how they passed the law) is going on now.Open meetings requires a 24 hour notice or 2 hours in an emergency but heard neither was met.

Again...here is my guess based on where this hearing is..."your" side wins this one...you jump in proclaiming victory. However, on appeal, the governor wins out later and its made a binding law....you cry foul.

Not at all. What I would like is the voters to decide if getting rid of collective bargaining is what they really want. I'd like to see a referendum, Walker never ran on that.My side is let the voters of the state decide this, but all we have right now is recalls. I wish they'd put it on the ballot.

The never ran on it stuff is so tired and useless that it's basically gotten to the point that the people saying it have no voice worth listening to. The voters did decide. There was an election. Elections have consequences. This is not a direct democracy.

Elections have consequences. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If people don't like the new changes there are a couple of elections coming up where they can elect people that will reverse course. That's how this works.

Apparently, one of the consequences of elections in WI is that people can fix their mistakes after a year. That is how things actually work in WI.

 

[Mr.Pack]

bear - it's not a right.

It's still real to him damnit.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Just heard a temporary restraining order against the republican move was ordered.

LINK

BREAKING: Wisconsin judge grants restraining order blocking enactment of Walker's anti-union bill!

What next? I'm not a lawyer but would think they could try and pass the original bill blocked by the democrats but need to have 24 hours notice.

So does that mean a road trip to Illinois again for the Dems so they can hide?

No it means that the only thing that matters in this world is what the Democrats want.####### pathetic.

Why do they hold elections again?

What an absolute joke.

Whoa.. Have a Drink there pack and relax It's just a Tempory injunction, the vote wasn't thrown out..

Besides, it was a 99% chance this would happen.. It was held in Dane COunty after all..

I know, but it's bull####.Run away like little babies, scream kick your feet and pound your fists, and get your way.

Pathetic.

The most pathetic thing about this whole situation is the cowardice of Walker and the other pubs. If you want to strip people of their rights have the balls to run on that issue. The fact that the protests against Walker have been the largest in WI history should make it clear that it is a massive issue to a whole lot of folks. Yet the pubs didn't have the nads to run on the issue. The ones eligible for recall should be recalled and hopefully will be.

Obviously you don't know what he ran on. He ran on cutting the defect and creating jobs.Did you think he was going to do that with seashells and balloons?

Doyle rammed a $2 BILLION dollar tax hike through. Did he run on that?

 

[Mr.Pack]

The hearing on whether the open meetings law was violated and whether what they passed was non fiscal(a requirement for how they passed the law) is going on now.Open meetings requires a 24 hour notice or 2 hours in an emergency but heard neither was met.

Again...here is my guess based on where this hearing is..."your" side wins this one...you jump in proclaiming victory. However, on appeal, the governor wins out later and its made a binding law....you cry foul.

Not at all. What I would like is the voters to decide if getting rid of collective bargaining is what they really want. I'd like to see a referendum, Walker never ran on that.My side is let the voters of the state decide this, but all we have right now is recalls. I wish they'd put it on the ballot.

The never ran on it stuff is so tired and useless that it's basically gotten to the point that the people saying it have no voice worth listening to. The voters did decide. There was an election. Elections have consequences. This is not a direct democracy.

Elections have consequences. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If people don't like the new changes there are a couple of elections coming up where they can elect people that will reverse course. That's how this works.

Apparently, one of the consequences of elections in WI is that people can fix their mistakes after a year. That is how things actually work in WI.

Yup, the people elected Walker. Deal with it.No way he gets recalled, especially after he turns the state around.Keep dreaming sunshine.

 

[bear]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

 

[Mr.Pack]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

:whoosh:

 

[Dr. Awesome]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

 

[bear]

The hearing on whether the open meetings law was violated and whether what they passed was non fiscal(a requirement for how they passed the law) is going on now.Open meetings requires a 24 hour notice or 2 hours in an emergency but heard neither was met.

Again...here is my guess based on where this hearing is..."your" side wins this one...you jump in proclaiming victory. However, on appeal, the governor wins out later and its made a binding law....you cry foul.

Not at all. What I would like is the voters to decide if getting rid of collective bargaining is what they really want. I'd like to see a referendum, Walker never ran on that.My side is let the voters of the state decide this, but all we have right now is recalls. I wish they'd put it on the ballot.

The never ran on it stuff is so tired and useless that it's basically gotten to the point that the people saying it have no voice worth listening to. The voters did decide. There was an election. Elections have consequences. This is not a direct democracy.

Elections have consequences. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If people don't like the new changes there are a couple of elections coming up where they can elect people that will reverse course. That's how this works.

Apparently, one of the consequences of elections in WI is that people can fix their mistakes after a year. That is how things actually work in WI.

Yup, the people elected Walker. Deal with it.No way he gets recalled, especially after he turns the state around.Keep dreaming sunshine.Damn, you should really get a grip on yourself. You sound unhinged. Again, Walker and the other pubs are cowards. Either campaign on your plan or be shown for the spineless people you are.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Damn, you should really get a grip on yourself. You sound unhinged. Again, Walker and the other pubs are cowards. Either campaign on your plan or be shown for the spineless people you are.

Again, you obviously have no clue about Walker ran on. Here's a clue, he ran on cutting spending and creating jobs.He's doing both right now.HTH

 

[Mr.Pack]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

 

[sho nuff]

Just heard a temporary restraining order against the republican move was ordered.

LINK

BREAKING: Wisconsin judge grants restraining order blocking enactment of Walker's anti-union bill!

What next? I'm not a lawyer but would think they could try and pass the original bill blocked by the democrats but need to have 24 hours notice.

So does that mean a road trip to Illinois again for the Dems so they can hide?

No it means that the only thing that matters in this world is what the Democrats want.####### pathetic.

Why do they hold elections again?

What an absolute joke.

Whoa.. Have a Drink there pack and relax It's just a Tempory injunction, the vote wasn't thrown out..

Besides, it was a 99% chance this would happen.. It was held in Dane COunty after all..

I know, but it's bull####.Run away like little babies, scream kick your feet and pound your fists, and get your way.

Pathetic.

The most pathetic thing about this whole situation is the cowardice of Walker and the other pubs. If you want to strip people of their rights have the balls to run on that issue. The fact that the protests against Walker have been the largest in WI history should make it clear that it is a massive issue to a whole lot of folks. Yet the pubs didn't have the nads to run on the issue. The ones eligible for recall should be recalled and hopefully will be.

Balls? Like running away from a vote because your side will lose.

 

[bear]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

 

[bear]

Just heard a temporary restraining order against the republican move was ordered.

LINK

BREAKING: Wisconsin judge grants restraining order blocking enactment of Walker's anti-union bill!

What next? I'm not a lawyer but would think they could try and pass the original bill blocked by the democrats but need to have 24 hours notice.

So does that mean a road trip to Illinois again for the Dems so they can hide?

No it means that the only thing that matters in this world is what the Democrats want.####### pathetic.

Why do they hold elections again?

What an absolute joke.

Whoa.. Have a Drink there pack and relax It's just a Tempory injunction, the vote wasn't thrown out..

Besides, it was a 99% chance this would happen.. It was held in Dane COunty after all..

I know, but it's bull####.Run away like little babies, scream kick your feet and pound your fists, and get your way.

Pathetic.

The most pathetic thing about this whole situation is the cowardice of Walker and the other pubs. If you want to strip people of their rights have the balls to run on that issue. The fact that the protests against Walker have been the largest in WI history should make it clear that it is a massive issue to a whole lot of folks. Yet the pubs didn't have the nads to run on the issue. The ones eligible for recall should be recalled and hopefully will be.

Obviously you don't know what he ran on. He ran on cutting the defect and creating jobs.Did you think he was going to do that with seashells and balloons?

Doyle rammed a $2 BILLION dollar tax hike through. Did he run on that?

Walker and the other pubs did not run on the biggest issue of his administration so far. Effectively ending collective bargaining for teachers was not a platform they ran on. It was cowardly.

 

[Mr.Pack]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

Actually yes they do. We pay their wages and benefits, so why shouldn't we have a say in their Union activity?

 

[Mr.Pack]

Just heard a temporary restraining order against the republican move was ordered.

LINK

BREAKING: Wisconsin judge grants restraining order blocking enactment of Walker's anti-union bill!

What next? I'm not a lawyer but would think they could try and pass the original bill blocked by the democrats but need to have 24 hours notice.

So does that mean a road trip to Illinois again for the Dems so they can hide?

No it means that the only thing that matters in this world is what the Democrats want.####### pathetic.

Why do they hold elections again?

What an absolute joke.

Whoa.. Have a Drink there pack and relax It's just a Tempory injunction, the vote wasn't thrown out..

Besides, it was a 99% chance this would happen.. It was held in Dane COunty after all..

I know, but it's bull####.Run away like little babies, scream kick your feet and pound your fists, and get your way.

Pathetic.

The most pathetic thing about this whole situation is the cowardice of Walker and the other pubs. If you want to strip people of their rights have the balls to run on that issue. The fact that the protests against Walker have been the largest in WI history should make it clear that it is a massive issue to a whole lot of folks. Yet the pubs didn't have the nads to run on the issue. The ones eligible for recall should be recalled and hopefully will be.

Obviously you don't know what he ran on. He ran on cutting the defect and creating jobs.Did you think he was going to do that with seashells and balloons?

Doyle rammed a $2 BILLION dollar tax hike through. Did he run on that?

Walker and the other pubs did not run on the biggest issue of his administration so far. Effectively ending collective bargaining for teachers was not a platform they ran on. It was cowardly.

No, cowardly was running away from voting.I'm pretty convinced that this is just schtick, no one can be this obtuse.

 

[Dvorak]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

The can organize all they want. We the People don't have to enter into contracts with their organization to provide public services, that's our right.

 

[Road Warriors]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

The term "right" has significance. We, as Americans, have the right to free speech, right to bear arms, etc. I don't believe I've seen the "right to unionize" anywhere in our government papers.Federal public workers don't have this "right." Nor do public workers from 26 other states. If it were truly a right, would this be the case? I can see the value of private unions, as they must be willing to negotiate reasonably with their employers, because both sides success or failure is tied together. Public unions, on the other hand, do not. Their employer, the taxpayer, is not represented at the negotiating table. Public unions are more of a PAC than a workers rights group. One further point, Public unions in WI are not being outlawed. Their ability to hold taxpayers hostage with their demands has been removed. They have employment protections already in place through other WI laws. There is very little reason for the existence of public unions other than to continue to extract more and more money from the taxpayers.

 

[bear]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

Actually yes they do. We pay their wages and benefits, so why shouldn't we have a say in their Union activity?

I help pay the salaries for teachers who will never teach my children, pay for wars that will never benefit me, roads that I will never drive on, etc, etc. We all pay for #### that we want to have a say in. Those are legitimate arguments. I draw the line at taking peoples rights away and I am with the strong majority here. You are on the wrong side of this issue and Walker and the other pubs are still cowards.

 

[bear]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

The can organize all they want. We the People don't have to enter into contracts with their organization to provide public services, that's our right.

Your problem is that the majority of Americans don't agree with you. The apparent view of most Americans is that they support collective bargaining rights. Some folks can argue all they want with this but they are a minority.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

The can organize all they want. We the People don't have to enter into contracts with their organization to provide public services, that's our right.

Your problem is that the majority of Americans don't agree with you. The apparent view of most Americans is that they support collective bargaining rights. Some folks can argue all they want with this but they are a minority.

So does that mean Obamacare should get repealed?

 

[sho nuff]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

The can organize all they want. We the People don't have to enter into contracts with their organization to provide public services, that's our right.

Your problem is that the majority of Americans don't agree with you. The apparent view of most Americans is that they support collective bargaining rights. Some folks can argue all they want with this but they are a minority.

Great...majority huh? Well...lets amend that constitution and make this a christian nation.The majority likely doesnt want to pay taxes either. Lets get rid of those too.

 

[bear]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

The term "right" has significance. We, as Americans, have the right to free speech, right to bear arms, etc. I don't believe I've seen the "right to unionize" anywhere in our government papers.Federal public workers don't have this "right." Nor do public workers from 26 other states. If it were truly a right, would this be the case? I can see the value of private unions, as they must be willing to negotiate reasonably with their employers, because both sides success or failure is tied together. Public unions, on the other hand, do not. Their employer, the taxpayer, is not represented at the negotiating table. Public unions are more of a PAC than a workers rights group. One further point, Public unions in WI are not being outlawed. Their ability to hold taxpayers hostage with their demands has been removed. They have employment protections already in place through other WI laws. There is very little reason for the existence of public unions other than to continue to extract more and more money from the taxpayers.

I don't have any doubt that the pendulum swings too far one way or the other over time. It is possible that the pendulum swung too far in the direction of the teachers over time. Whether this is true or not is open to debate but what is not open to debate is that people have the right to organize themselves. Also, LOL at the extracting money from the taxpayers. You really believe the money that you think goes to "overpaying" teachers is greater than the waste that goes on in a variety of other gov't programs?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

bear has 183 posts despite being around since 2004? Whose alias is this? I'm no longer taking this bait.

 

[Road Warriors]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

The term "right" has significance. We, as Americans, have the right to free speech, right to bear arms, etc. I don't believe I've seen the "right to unionize" anywhere in our government papers.Federal public workers don't have this "right." Nor do public workers from 26 other states. If it were truly a right, would this be the case? I can see the value of private unions, as they must be willing to negotiate reasonably with their employers, because both sides success or failure is tied together. Public unions, on the other hand, do not. Their employer, the taxpayer, is not represented at the negotiating table. Public unions are more of a PAC than a workers rights group. One further point, Public unions in WI are not being outlawed. Their ability to hold taxpayers hostage with their demands has been removed. They have employment protections already in place through other WI laws. There is very little reason for the existence of public unions other than to continue to extract more and more money from the taxpayers.

I don't have any doubt that the pendulum swings too far one way or the other over time. It is possible that the pendulum swung too far in the direction of the teachers over time. Whether this is true or not is open to debate but what is not open to debate is that people have the right to organize themselves. Also, LOL at the extracting money from the taxpayers. You really believe the money that you think goes to "overpaying" teachers is greater than the waste that goes on in a variety of other gov't programs?

First, I don't think teachers are overpaid. I do, however, believe that public unions are far more political than workers rights groups. The unions, when they have these so-called rights ( btw, you never did answer why these rights aren't being enforced at the federal public worker level. Could it be that the ability for public unions to collectively bargain is at the whim of the government, and not a right?) force the labor pool to contribute money to the union, then use that money to try to place favorable political candidates in office that they will then "negotiate" with. This does not represent the taxpayer well.Removing the union bargaining will allow for a merit based system to be enacted in our schools, rewarding the best teachers and removing those that look forward to their summers off. Unions, IMO, stifle the education system through their LIFO based hiring/firing practices, protecting the longest tenured teachers, many of whom have packed it in and are collecting their paycheck until they can retire. We would all be better served in an education system that encourages and rewards exceptional teachers, who often are the newest members of the team. Under our current, union based systems, these new teachers are the first ones let gn your final point, I tend to somewhat agree with you. As I've stated, I don't believe teachers are overpaid, but asking them to contribute more to their health coverage and pensions to be more in line with the private sector is a decent cost savings that makes sense. I fully agree that government wastes tons of $$ on programs up & down the line. I'd like to see all of the waste cut. That doesn't mean that asking public union members to contribute ( and removing the means for the next election cycle to remove any fiscal progress made by reducing the collective bargaining ) is the only answer to solving the fiscal crisis. But it is a good step with tangible impact on helping get the finances under control.

 

[larry_boy_44]

Just heard a temporary restraining order against the republican move was ordered.

LINK

BREAKING: Wisconsin judge grants restraining order blocking enactment of Walker's anti-union bill!

What next? I'm not a lawyer but would think they could try and pass the original bill blocked by the democrats but need to have 24 hours notice.

So does that mean a road trip to Illinois again for the Dems so they can hide?

No it means that the only thing that matters in this world is what the Democrats want.####### pathetic.

Why do they hold elections again?

What an absolute joke.

Whoa.. Have a Drink there pack and relax It's just a Tempory injunction, the vote wasn't thrown out..

Besides, it was a 99% chance this would happen.. It was held in Dane COunty after all..

I know, but it's bull####.Run away like little babies, scream kick your feet and pound your fists, and get your way.

Pathetic.

The most pathetic thing about this whole situation is the cowardice of Walker and the other pubs. If you want to strip people of their rights have the balls to run on that issue. The fact that the protests against Walker have been the largest in WI history should make it clear that it is a massive issue to a whole lot of folks. Yet the pubs didn't have the nads to run on the issue. The ones eligible for recall should be recalled and hopefully will be.

1. they aren't "rights", lawmakers can't just pass a bill to take away anything that is considered a "right"... they can't take away our "right" to vote... you should read the "bill of rights" and see what it talks about, I really don't think public unions come close to being as important as most of the stuff in there...

2. NO ONE could ever get into office if they ran on HOW they were going to balance the budget. If someone ran on a promise that they would raise taxes and lower spending and told you exactly who they would raise taxes on (note: "soak the rich" is a slight exception, but still awful) and which programs would get cut, they would LOSE!

EVERYONE votes for their own personal pocketbook... If you think the budget should be balanced and spending needs to get cut, you vote in the politician saying that and hope that they cut things you can live with them cutting because you won't like it getting cut, that's just how it is... NO ONE wants things to get cut, but you can't always get what you want, sometimes you gotta realize that what is happening is best and that it is what is needed...

 

[larry_boy_44]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

Actually yes they do. We pay their wages and benefits, so why shouldn't we have a say in their Union activity?

I help pay the salaries for teachers who will never teach my children, pay for wars that will never benefit me, roads that I will never drive on, etc, etc. We all pay for #### that we want to have a say in. Those are legitimate arguments. I draw the line at taking peoples rights away and I am with the strong majority here. You are on the wrong side of this issue and Walker and the other pubs are still cowards.

you're wrong here, though...If you gave Americans a list of things that actually could get meaningfully cut and actually help states stay within their budgets, I guarantee you that "teacher's benefits" would be at or near the very top of those lists...

The problem is (and where the "polls" you cite become irrelevant at) is that NO ONE wants to cut anything in a vacuum. I think welfare as it is is more harmful than helpful, but if you asked me straight up with no other considerations if I want spending on welfare cut, I'd say no. Why? Because the parts of it that are good might get cut and because if there is no reason to cut it, why cut it?

Same thing here. The people are being asked "do you want this spending cut?" most just say "no" because they don't want ANYTHING cut... The real question is "do you want this, this, this, this, this, or this cut, you have to choose one" and then see what they say...

 

[larry_boy_44]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

The term "right" has significance. We, as Americans, have the right to free speech, right to bear arms, etc. I don't believe I've seen the "right to unionize" anywhere in our government papers.Federal public workers don't have this "right." Nor do public workers from 26 other states. If it were truly a right, would this be the case? I can see the value of private unions, as they must be willing to negotiate reasonably with their employers, because both sides success or failure is tied together. Public unions, on the other hand, do not. Their employer, the taxpayer, is not represented at the negotiating table. Public unions are more of a PAC than a workers rights group. One further point, Public unions in WI are not being outlawed. Their ability to hold taxpayers hostage with their demands has been removed. They have employment protections already in place through other WI laws. There is very little reason for the existence of public unions other than to continue to extract more and more money from the taxpayers.

I don't have any doubt that the pendulum swings too far one way or the other over time. It is possible that the pendulum swung too far in the direction of the teachers over time. Whether this is true or not is open to debate but what is not open to debate is that people have the right to organize themselves. Also, LOL at the extracting money from the taxpayers. You really believe the money that you think goes to "overpaying" teachers is greater than the waste that goes on in a variety of other gov't programs?

yes and corporation/employers have the right to ignore those organizations... The state of Wisconsin will no longer negotiate on certain aspects of compensation with public unions...and I think there is lots of waste, the waste we are dealing with right now is the waste paid to teachers in "hidden" wages... After we deal with that we can deal with other things... Just because other things suck doesn't mean we shouldn't fix other things that suck...

 

[bear]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

The can organize all they want. We the People don't have to enter into contracts with their organization to provide public services, that's our right.

Your problem is that the majority of Americans don't agree with you. The apparent view of most Americans is that they support collective bargaining rights. Some folks can argue all they want with this but they are a minority.

So does that mean Obamacare should get repealed?

If you think you have the votes get after it. I'm guessing you don't have your ###.

 

[bear]

bear - it's not a right.

Yeah, it is or at least was.

By what measure is/was it a right?

That is not the question I ask myself. My question is by what measure are Americans denied the right to organize themselves for their betterment. They don't need your permission.

The term "right" has significance. We, as Americans, have the right to free speech, right to bear arms, etc. I don't believe I've seen the "right to unionize" anywhere in our government papers.Federal public workers don't have this "right." Nor do public workers from 26 other states. If it were truly a right, would this be the case? I can see the value of private unions, as they must be willing to negotiate reasonably with their employers, because both sides success or failure is tied together. Public unions, on the other hand, do not. Their employer, the taxpayer, is not represented at the negotiating table. Public unions are more of a PAC than a workers rights group. One further point, Public unions in WI are not being outlawed. Their ability to hold taxpayers hostage with their demands has been removed. They have employment protections already in place through other WI laws. There is very little reason for the existence of public unions other than to continue to extract more and more money from the taxpayers.

I don't have any doubt that the pendulum swings too far one way or the other over time. It is possible that the pendulum swung too far in the direction of the teachers over time. Whether this is true or not is open to debate but what is not open to debate is that people have the right to organize themselves. Also, LOL at the extracting money from the taxpayers. You really believe the money that you think goes to "overpaying" teachers is greater than the waste that goes on in a variety of other gov't programs?

yes and corporation/employers have the right to ignore those organizations... The state of Wisconsin will no longer negotiate on certain aspects of compensation with public unions...and I think there is lots of waste, the waste we are dealing with right now is the waste paid to teachers in "hidden" wages... After we deal with that we can deal with other things... Just because other things suck doesn't mean we shouldn't fix other things that suck...

Larry, please explain to me what waste we are now paying to teachers in "hidden" wages. You sound like you know what you are you are talking about so this should be easy.

 

[snogger]

bear - it's not a right.

shhhh He's going somewhere.. Thinking more along ville, but let's wait to see where the takes him.ETA - Now that caught up to the rest of his posts the came faster than I thought it would.

 

[Mr.Pack]

bear - it's not a right.

shhhh He's going somewhere.. Thinking more along ville, but let's wait to see where the takes him.ETA - Now that caught up to the rest of his posts the came faster than I thought it would.

It's become quite obvious hes here, so we should all just ignore him, kinda like cr8f. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if bear was cr8f's alias.

 

[jon_mx]

It's become quite obvious hes here, so we should all just ignore him, kinda like cr8f. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if bear was cr8f's alias.

I doubt it. Bear at least can string together a few sentences in his own words, although not with the most coherent thought process. cr8f is a pure cut and paste guy who is a disaster every time he writes anything by himself.

 

[uwftbl]

Go rent "Waiting For Superman" (made by the same outfit that gave us "An Inconvenient Truth"). Then let's talk.