Sean Payton suspended 1 year (1 Viewer)

[Multiple Scores]

I'm not a lawyer, and I know we have plenty of them on the boards. My question...does Goodell have the authority to suspend Payton without pay like this? I could see him getting away with a suspension and fine, but does keeping the guy from earning a living (to the tune of $6 million) overstep bounds?

He is not keeping him from earning a living. Payton can go work anywhere else he wants in the next year. No one is stopping him from earning a living elsewhere.

Agreed. He's perfectly able to go coach at a high school, college, or earn a living as an electrician. Making a living in the NFL is a privilege, not a right.

Yep, and he lost that right for a year. He could probably go coach arena football for a year and make some nice bank doing that.

Boo Hoo. An 8 digit bank account guy gets a year vacation for a year. I feel worse for all the homeless children than this poor guy.

 

[az_prof]

The excessive penalties against the Saints now put them at a competitive disadvantage for infractions that did not result in a competitive advantage.

I dont know about this. I think they way they went after Brett Favre was the reason they won that game and gave them a Super Bowl. They played over the edge and it showed with some results. There O was still potent though

Sure they went after Favre, but the bounties did not give them a competitive advantage over the Vikings in that game. Most of the hits on Favre were perfectly legal.

Seriously? I think knocking him on his #### over and over did affect competition in that game.

This. The INT for a TD that turned the game occurred on a brutal hit too. To say that it didn't give a competitive advantage is naive.

 

[HellToupee]

Payton is a bit of a blowhard , I wonder if he'll work as a talking head for ESPN this season or is that verboten?

 

[corpcow]

This seems really excessive to me. Some teams and some players are dirty, headhunters, whatever. The fact that there were "bonuses" at play shouldn't suddenly trigger huge suspensions like this. I mean, you're already paying very large, very athletic men a lot of money to run into each other.

It's been said already, but obviously this is ALL about perception on the player safety issue.

 

[fatness]

It makes me wonder if this is a combination punishment for other infractions/issues.

Paying bounties for injuring players, lying to the league about it, continuing to do it after being told to stop --- yeah, there are other infractions there.

 

[BaBastage]

The Wall Street Journal went back and looked at the Saints game film over a 54-game span and only found 18 injuries that the Saints were involved in (i.e. excluding guys pulling up lame with a hamstring injury). One injury every 3 games hardly seems like a notable difference from any other NFL team. That's where the NFL's sanctimony on this issue is completely hypocritical--there was no noticeable on-field impact associated with this--it's purely retroactively covering their ### for lawsuits.

The "One Injury every 3 games" statistic is baseless unless compared to the injury rates from other teams. If other teams are averaging one injury in every 6 games, then yes, that's a big difference.I'm ok with the severity of the punishment, given that it sounds like many Saints players and coaches were giving the proverbial finger to the NFL. (As has been stated in this thread, they were involved in a coverup in addition to merely the bounty scheme.)Also, as already mentioned, the NFL can't have any tolerance for injury-intentions. Yes, it's a violent game, but injuries need to be kept as a side effect of winning games, not tools to be used int the pursuit of winning.The punishment laid out is a pretty good example of "Punative Damages" (which are intended to reform or deter the defendant and others from engaging in similar conduct.)It does suck for Saints fans though - I feel for you guys today.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

...

Well it will make every team make sure this is not going on. So in that regard the message is loud and clear. There is no place in sports for this kind of crap. I still think it was excessive. I think we know Payton was just caught in a situation that was under his leadership....but he may not have known about the extent of what was going on. I don't know to be honest. Williams...a year suspension to me would have been just. A lifetime ban is very harsh.

I'd been giving Payton some benefit of the doubt early on. But IIRC, then we heard that Payton's good friend, the convicted felon who was involved in Reggie Bush's NCAA violations at USC, had funded as an outsider some of the bounties and Payton knew about it and the league had confirmation of it in Payton's emails. At that point I think he lost most of that benefit of the doubt for me.

Unfortunately it's a culture thing in the NFL. This type of culture has been in the game for so long it became the norm among players. When coaches are involved....yeah then your really getting hairy. But among players....these guys..most of them are insane when they play football. Normal off the field...but on the field? Total nut bars. They are out to hurt you and hurt you badly.

Combating that kind of win-at-any-costs culture is definitely a big part of this. During the investigation, as the league began to hear it might be more widespread and found evidence of Williams doing the same with other clubs in the past, a comment came out from a league source close to Goodell along the lines of, we realized at that point the whole culture of this needed to change. I posted the exact quote in the other thread, don't feel like digging for it right now.

And how can the league expect a full speed defensive back or LB to all of a sudden hold up on hittng a guy crossing the middle? They get paid to hit them...and hit them hard and seperate them from the ball. It's taught at the pop warner level.

But please don't say this. This is just plain incorrect and a falsehood. The rules don't require a DB or LB to hold off hitting a guy. They require he not aim for the guy's head or neck, and not lead with his helmet. Every week we see dozens of huge hits on defenseless receivers that are perfectly legal under the new rules, and the physics of the hit is just as likely to separate him from the ball... apart from not being as likely to knock him unconscious and give him a concussion.

I have seen so many clean hits over the course of last season get fines, flags etc. I think the interpretation needs to be clear and it is not. Too many times a DE's hand grazes a QB's helmet, totally incidental and not intended nor harmful and we see flags...it makes me sick. Same for the defensless WR rule. A bad throw, over throw whatever....and the guy get's laid out...because the DB launched himself....not head first or leading with the head, a clean leagal hit and the flag is thrown.

It just needs to to be interpreted more consistently across all the crews.

I am one who hates these guys leading with the helmet. It is awful. And it is not nipped in the butt ever...not at any level. So these guys think it is ok and their muscle memory takes over.

well it's gonna be BYOBB (bring your own barf bag) if you watch Bronco games this year....excessive breathing on the QB may become a penalty in Bronco games....league ain't gonna wanna see him touched....

 

[Multiple Scores]

And to think...The players have yet to get their suspensions. No playoffs for the Saints this year.

As long as #9 is back there saying "hut", they won't be kept outta the playoffs.

If they play 100% 3rd stringers for the first six games I beg to differ.

 

[Disc Shark]

The excessive penalties against the Saints now put them at a competitive disadvantage for infractions that did not result in a competitive advantage.

I dont know about this. I think they way they went after Brett Favre was the reason they won that game and gave them a Super Bowl. They played over the edge and it showed with some results. There O was still potent though

Sure they went after Favre, but the bounties did not give them a competitive advantage over the Vikings in that game. Most of the hits on Favre were perfectly legal.

Seriously? I think knocking him on his #### over and over did affect competition in that game.

This. The INT for a TD that turned the game occurred on a brutal hit too. To say that it didn't give a competitive advantage is naive.

I'm afraid that you're the one that is naive.

 

[az_prof]

Wow....wow....just wow.Goodell is a god (so he thinks).This has been going on for decades.

So what? Just because people been shooting heroin forever you gonna let your child do it? Genocide is always going on, so it's ok. The it happens argument is weak. You get caught, you get punished.

You misunderstood me. I don't agree with it (money to injure players)....it has been going on for decades.....this is nothing new at all. That is football. Don't fool yourself. It is a very violent, take no prisoners game.

How do you know this? Money for INTs and fumbles is one thing. Money for big hits even is one thing. Money to take a guy out of the game or take him out on a stretcher? That's a crime: conspiracy to commit assault. If I were the local DA I would charge them with a crime.

 

[corpcow]

The excessive penalties against the Saints now put them at a competitive disadvantage for infractions that did not result in a competitive advantage.

I dont know about this. I think they way they went after Brett Favre was the reason they won that game and gave them a Super Bowl. They played over the edge and it showed with some results. There O was still potent though

Sure they went after Favre, but the bounties did not give them a competitive advantage over the Vikings in that game. Most of the hits on Favre were perfectly legal.

Seriously? I think knocking him on his #### over and over did affect competition in that game.

This. The INT for a TD that turned the game occurred on a brutal hit too. To say that it didn't give a competitive advantage is naive.

To say that "bonuses" were the reason, or necessary, to hard but legal hits in a game of football where players are already well compensated for doing the same is even more naive.

 

[Amused to Death]

not sure it really made the Saints have a decided advantage. Should we go back and look at some of those Darren Sharper hits from the Super bowl run season?

Nice post, ty

The Wall Street Journal went back and looked at the Saints game film over a 54-game span and only found 18 injuries that the Saints were involved in (i.e. excluding guys pulling up lame with a hamstring injury). One injury every 3 games hardly seems like a notable difference from any other NFL team. That's where the NFL's sanctimony on this issue is completely hypocritical--there was no noticeable on-field impact associated with this.

But that's not really what it's about, is it? It's about intent to injure more than it's about successfully injuring, right?

I've heard interviews with former players who have stated that they INTENDED to injure their opponents in EVERY game. To say otherwise shows a complete lack of understanding of the nature of football.

The interviews you heard make an excellent argument for why the punishment was so severe.

I fully understand that the NFL is attempting to change the culture of violence in the League, but crippling the Saints and reducing their capacity to compete in the NFL is an unfair way to go about it.

Yeah, you'd think the league would at least warn them first and ask them nicely to stop.

 

[BaBastage]

How do you know this? Money for INTs and fumbles is one thing. Money for big hits even is one thing. Money to take a guy out of the game or take him out on a stretcher? That's a crime: conspiracy to commit assault. If I were the local DA I would charge them with a crime.

 

[GregR]

Players, especially ex-players, should be giving this a round of applause.If you're going to point out (and in some cases, sue) that the league didn't do enough for player safety - citing issues such as dementia, etc - then you have to be encouraged when it actually does do something to ensure it.

They aren't though. Most players don't have a problem with the nature of football.

I don't know of any poll that was done, but I've seen many players interviewed about this Saints issue that state they do have a problem with it.I suspect that defensive players who are more often in the position to injure intentionally rather than be injured intentionally, are probably a lot more in favor of it than are the offensive players who are the targets.

 

[fatness]

From PFT, here's part of Goodell's statement:

“Let me be clear. There is no place in the NFL for deliberately seeking to injure another player, let alone offering a reward for doing so. Any form of bounty is incompatible with our commitment to create a culture of sportsmanship, fairness, and safety. Programs of this kind have no place in our game and we are determined that bounties will no longer be a part of the NFL.”

This might be the first time I've ever agreed with Goodell. This is good for NFL football. If the punishments were small and only inconvenient bounties would just be paid in increasing amounts by any team who thought it was worth trying to get away with, and there's a lot of money available to pay those bounties. But who wants to watch football played by cripples and scrubs?

 

[corpcow]

Wow....wow....just wow.Goodell is a god (so he thinks).This has been going on for decades.

So what? Just because people been shooting heroin forever you gonna let your child do it? Genocide is always going on, so it's ok. The it happens argument is weak. You get caught, you get punished.

You misunderstood me. I don't agree with it (money to injure players)....it has been going on for decades.....this is nothing new at all. That is football. Don't fool yourself. It is a very violent, take no prisoners game.

How do you know this? Money for INTs and fumbles is one thing. Money for big hits even is one thing. Money to take a guy out of the game or take him out on a stretcher? That's a crime: conspiracy to commit assault. If I were the local DA I would charge them with a crime.

This rhetoric is silly and this reasoning is flawed. If you want to charge conspiracy for a crime, you have to have a crime. This would imply that any hit where a guy got taken out of the game or out on a stretcher is assault (or, rather, battery since assault != battery). But, consent is a complete or partial defense, and activities within the rule of a game falls under that. Illegal hits MAY be battery, but you still have to prove several things including the fact that it was intentionally outside the rules of the game.I guess it's pretty obvious you're not a DA

 

[nxmehta]

Absolutely warranted. Payton is Williams' boss. He holds significant responsibility for what the people directly under him do. Sure, you can't control everything that your employees do, but that's why he got a year instead of an indefinite suspension.

If anything Loomis should have gotten a year as well.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Players, especially ex-players, should be giving this a round of applause.

If you're going to point out (and in some cases, sue) that the league didn't do enough for player safety - citing issues such as dementia, etc - then you have to be encouraged when it actually does do something to ensure it.

They aren't though. Most players don't have a problem with the nature of football.

I don't know of any poll that was done, but I've seen many players interviewed about this Saints issue that state they do have a problem with it.I suspect that defensive players who are more often in the position to injure intentionally rather than be injured intentionally, are probably a lot more in favor of it than are the offensive players who are the targets.

That's why I always bring up how much of a joke it is that defensive players cried about the
or when Warren Sapp almost kills Chad Clifton it is "just football".

 

[Amused to Death]

I'm not a lawyer, and I know we have plenty of them on the boards. My question...does Goodell have the authority to suspend Payton without pay like this? I could see him getting away with a suspension and fine, but does keeping the guy from earning a living (to the tune of $6 million) overstep bounds?

He is not keeping him from earning a living. Payton can go work anywhere else he wants in the next year. No one is stopping him from earning a living elsewhere.

Agreed. He's perfectly able to go coach at a high school, college, or earn a living as an electrician. Making a living in the NFL is a privilege, not a right.

Yep, and he lost that right for a year. He could probably go coach arena football for a year and make some nice bank doing that.

I wonder if Saskatchewan is looking for a new coach? They were 5-13 last year.

 

[gianmarco]

Excessive? Yeah, probably. It is what it is.

It'll be interesting to see how the Saints do with this. I wouldn't want to play these guys with a chip on their shoulder all year. Bounty or not, you better believe that defense is gonna be hitting hard every single game this year. I expect some statements to be made on the field.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Has Payton coached his last game in NO?

That''s the Million $$$ question IMO...you lose him for 2012, and the 2013 off season is a debacle too.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Payton is a bit of a blowhard , I wonder if he'll work as a talking head for ESPN this season or is that verboten?

I doubt he wants to be on TV after this...he probably wants to crawl under a rock and die.

 

[Heatman]

I think the punishment fits. Everyone seems to think Payton is the only one getting fully screwed but his suspension is worse than the others because he tried to claim he knew nothing about the bounties and other coaches contradicted his statements. Since he tried to cover up his knowledge of the situation he got hammered to prove a point.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

So the Saints don't draft until round 3 this year? Oof.

 

[GregR]

I fully understand that the NFL is attempting to change the culture of violence in the League, but crippling the Saints and reducing their capacity to compete in the NFL is an unfair way to go about it.

If I were a Saints fan I would be upset about this situation. I would be upset at my team for doing what they did, and not having the common sense to stop when they were let off with a warning.I don't see something unfair in this. The suspensions are a bit harsh, but the draft pick fines are extremely reasonable. The Saints did multiple things wrong here. They encouraged injuries. They circumvented the salary cap. They allowed a convicted felon to fund bounties on other players. They lied to the NFL about their activities until they were caught with an actual paper trail.It isn't like some team was chosen at random and given a punishment in order to accomplish a change of culture. The Saints are fully deserving of some major punishment. The loss of Payton will affect them for one season and no more. The loss of the two 2nd round draft picks is entirely reasonable compared to what the Patriots got.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I fully understand that the NFL is attempting to change the culture of violence in the League, but crippling the Saints and reducing their capacity to compete in the NFL is an unfair way to go about it.

If I were a Saints fan I would be upset about this situation. I would be upset at my team for doing what they did, and not having the common sense to stop when they were let off with a warning.I don't see something unfair in this. The suspensions are a bit harsh, but the draft pick fines are extremely reasonable. The Saints did multiple things wrong here. They encouraged injuries. They circumvented the salary cap. They allowed a convicted felon to fund bounties on other players. They lied to the NFL about their activities until they were caught with an actual paper trail.It isn't like some team was chosen at random and given a punishment in order to accomplish a change of culture. The Saints are fully deserving of some major punishment. The loss of Payton will affect them for one season and no more. The loss of the two 2nd round draft picks is entirely reasonable compared to what the Patriots got.

Was it worth it though for a Super Bowl and playoff run like they have had the last few years?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Poor Rams.

Same sorry-### Rams.

 

[E_Smith]

Wow....wow....just wow.Goodell is a god (so he thinks).This has been going on for decades.

So what? Just because people been shooting heroin forever you gonna let your child do it? Genocide is always going on, so it's ok. The it happens argument is weak. You get caught, you get punished.

You misunderstood me. I don't agree with it (money to injure players)....it has been going on for decades.....this is nothing new at all. That is football. Don't fool yourself. It is a very violent, take no prisoners game.

How do you know this? Money for INTs and fumbles is one thing. Money for big hits even is one thing. Money to take a guy out of the game or take him out on a stretcher? That's a crime: conspiracy to commit assault. If I were the local DA I would charge them with a crime.

This rhetoric is silly and this reasoning is flawed. If you want to charge conspiracy for a crime, you have to have a crime. This would imply that any hit where a guy got taken out of the game or out on a stretcher is assault (or, rather, battery since assault != battery). But, consent is a complete or partial defense, and activities within the rule of a game falls under that. Illegal hits MAY be battery, but you still have to prove several things including the fact that it was intentionally outside the rules of the game.I guess it's pretty obvious you're not a DA

assault is the intent element, battery is the actual act. Intent to injure is covered by the evidence on record, and illegal hits are not consented to. The only missing element then is intent to make the illegal hit. however, under criminal law, intent can usually be inferred by the actions of the defendant. so if the player has agreed to the bounty arrangement, hits the particular player under the bounty, and hits them outside of the rules, and knocks him out of the game, I'd say there is a pretty strong case for assault and battery and conspiracy. having said that, I don't think a DA would bother in this instance for a bunch of reasons. But criminal cases in sports on field injuries have happened before.

 

[ArcticEdge]

So the Saints don't draft until round 3 this year? Oof.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Wow....wow....just wow.

Goodell is a god (so he thinks).

This has been going on for decades.

So what? Just because people been shooting heroin forever you gonna let your child do it? Genocide is always going on, so it's ok.

The it happens argument is weak. You get caught, you get punished.

You misunderstood me. I don't agree with it (money to injure players)....it has been going on for decades.....this is nothing new at all.

That is football. Don't fool yourself. It is a very violent, take no prisoners game.

How do you know this? Money for INTs and fumbles is one thing. Money for big hits even is one thing. Money to take a guy out of the game or take him out on a stretcher? That's a crime: conspiracy to commit assault. If I were the local DA I would charge them with a crime.

This rhetoric is silly and this reasoning is flawed. If you want to charge conspiracy for a crime, you have to have a crime. This would imply that any hit where a guy got taken out of the game or out on a stretcher is assault (or, rather, battery since assault != battery). But, consent is a complete or partial defense, and activities within the rule of a game falls under that. Illegal hits MAY be battery, but you still have to prove several things including the fact that it was intentionally outside the rules of the game.I guess it's pretty obvious you're not a DA

assault is the intent element, battery is the actual act. Intent to injure is covered by the evidence on record, and illegal hits are not consented to. The only missing element then is intent to make the illegal hit. however, under criminal law, intent can usually be inferred by the actions of the defendant. so if the player has agreed to the bounty arrangement, hits the particular player under the bounty, and hits them outside of the rules, and knocks him out of the game, I'd say there is a pretty strong case for assault and battery and conspiracy. having said that, I don't think a DA would bother in this instance for a bunch of reasons. But criminal cases in sports on field injuries have happened before.

I take it you are not a lawyer?

 

[Bad_Mo]

Payton is lucky he didn't get fined too.

 

[Doug B]

So the Saints don't draft until round 3 this year? Oof.

Nothing's ever guaranteed ... but the Saints have probably been the best team in the NFL over the last five years or so with late draft picks (e.g. Carl Nicks) and with UDFAs (e.g Pierre Thomas). I wouldn't bet on the Saints' getting shut out of landing good rookie players over the next two seasons.

 

[E_Smith]

Wow....wow....just wow.

Goodell is a god (so he thinks).

This has been going on for decades.

So what? Just because people been shooting heroin forever you gonna let your child do it? Genocide is always going on, so it's ok.

The it happens argument is weak. You get caught, you get punished.

You misunderstood me. I don't agree with it (money to injure players)....it has been going on for decades.....this is nothing new at all.

That is football. Don't fool yourself. It is a very violent, take no prisoners game.

How do you know this? Money for INTs and fumbles is one thing. Money for big hits even is one thing. Money to take a guy out of the game or take him out on a stretcher? That's a crime: conspiracy to commit assault. If I were the local DA I would charge them with a crime.

This rhetoric is silly and this reasoning is flawed. If you want to charge conspiracy for a crime, you have to have a crime. This would imply that any hit where a guy got taken out of the game or out on a stretcher is assault (or, rather, battery since assault != battery). But, consent is a complete or partial defense, and activities within the rule of a game falls under that. Illegal hits MAY be battery, but you still have to prove several things including the fact that it was intentionally outside the rules of the game.I guess it's pretty obvious you're not a DA

assault is the intent element, battery is the actual act. Intent to injure is covered by the evidence on record, and illegal hits are not consented to. The only missing element then is intent to make the illegal hit. however, under criminal law, intent can usually be inferred by the actions of the defendant. so if the player has agreed to the bounty arrangement, hits the particular player under the bounty, and hits them outside of the rules, and knocks him out of the game, I'd say there is a pretty strong case for assault and battery and conspiracy. having said that, I don't think a DA would bother in this instance for a bunch of reasons. But criminal cases in sports on field injuries have happened before.

I take it you are not a lawyer?

assault requires intent (and apprehension of battery by the victim). thats all I meant. you can have assault without an actual battery. you can also have battery without assault (a blindside hit of a QB would be an example). so I guess I mispoke, thanks.

 

[Todem]

Wow....wow....just wow.Goodell is a god (so he thinks).This has been going on for decades.

So what? Just because people been shooting heroin forever you gonna let your child do it? Genocide is always going on, so it's ok. The it happens argument is weak. You get caught, you get punished.

You misunderstood me. I don't agree with it (money to injure players)....it has been going on for decades.....this is nothing new at all. That is football. Don't fool yourself. It is a very violent, take no prisoners game.

How do you know this? Money for INTs and fumbles is one thing. Money for big hits even is one thing. Money to take a guy out of the game or take him out on a stretcher? That's a crime: conspiracy to commit assault. If I were the local DA I would charge them with a crime.

The difference is the Saints were dumb enough to call it "take him out with an injury" bonus......other teams that had (and let's again not be naive and black and white here) hit bounties for big hits.....what kind of intentions do you think a lot of those hits had?Come on guys.Have you ever been part of a locker room, a football team at any level? It is friggin insane. Killers some of these guys. Absolute bad intentions with every tackle and hit. Twisting ankles in pile ups, all kinds of stuff going on for decades.....DECADES at every level.And let's not even get into Hockey. That is a whole other conversation.I don't agree with it. My point is...how can this surprise anyone?And yes I consider it assault in the real world. But the NFL is not the real world.....it is our gladiator arena. These are our gladiators. They are world wide entertainers. Fact.Just like James Woods in Any Given Sunday put it. These guys are looking to win, hit hard, with bad intentions and take guys out.To win.Brutally honest....that is all i am doing here. Being brutally honest.I hope they clean up the game. there are plenty of guys who play and hit for the sport, not for the blood. But there are a decent amount of guys at all levels who are killers.

 

[ArcticEdge]

Wow....wow....just wow.Goodell is a god (so he thinks).This has been going on for decades.

So what? Just because people been shooting heroin forever you gonna let your child do it? Genocide is always going on, so it's ok. The it happens argument is weak. You get caught, you get punished.

You misunderstood me. I don't agree with it (money to injure players)....it has been going on for decades.....this is nothing new at all. That is football. Don't fool yourself. It is a very violent, take no prisoners game.

How do you know this? Money for INTs and fumbles is one thing. Money for big hits even is one thing. Money to take a guy out of the game or take him out on a stretcher? That's a crime: conspiracy to commit assault. If I were the local DA I would charge them with a crime.

The difference is the Saints were dumb enough to call it "take him out with an injury" bonus......other teams that had (and let's again not be naive and black and white here) hit bounties for big hits.....what kind of intentions do you think a lot of those hits had?Come on guys.Have you ever been part of a locker room, football teams at any level? It is friggin insane. Killers some of these guys. Absolute bad intentions with every tackle and hit. Twisting ankles in pile ups, all kinds of stuff going on for decades.....DECADES at every level.I don't agree with it. My point is...how can this surprise anyone?And yes I consider it assault in the real world. But the NFL is not the real world.....it is our gladiator arena. These are our gladiators.Just like James Woods in Any Given Sunday put it. These guys are looking to win, hit hard, with bad intentions and take guys out.To win.Brutally honest....that is all i am doing here. Being brutally honest.I hope they clean up the game. there are plenty of guys who play and hit for the sport, not for the blood. But there are a decent amount of guys at all levels who are killers.

Take a hike Saint's Homer!

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Where does the money for the bounties come from?

 

[Dexter Manley]

I fully understand that the NFL is attempting to change the culture of violence in the League, but crippling the Saints and reducing their capacity to compete in the NFL is an unfair way to go about it.

If I were a Saints fan I would be upset about this situation. I would be upset at my team for doing what they did, and not having the common sense to stop when they were let off with a warning.I don't see something unfair in this. The suspensions are a bit harsh, but the draft pick fines are extremely reasonable. The Saints did multiple things wrong here. They encouraged injuries. They circumvented the salary cap. They allowed a convicted felon to fund bounties on other players. They lied to the NFL about their activities until they were caught with an actual paper trail.It isn't like some team was chosen at random and given a punishment in order to accomplish a change of culture. The Saints are fully deserving of some major punishment. The loss of Payton will affect them for one season and no more. The loss of the two 2nd round draft picks is entirely reasonable compared to what the Patriots got.

Exactly. If I was a Saints fan I would be pissed and very disappointed, but there's nothing at all that is unfair about the punishment.If you're looking for a punishment that's unfair, just go back to last week when the league stole 36 million in cap space from the Redskins and 10 million in cap space from the Cowboys, despite neither team breaking ANY rules or doing ANYTHING wrong. Now THAT'S unfair.I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but I suspect the primary reason that the Saints didn't get the additional cap space that the other 28 teams did was because of this scandal. It wouldn't make much sense to reward the Saints one week and punish them the next.

 

[Todem]

Wow....wow....just wow.Goodell is a god (so he thinks).This has been going on for decades.

So what? Just because people been shooting heroin forever you gonna let your child do it? Genocide is always going on, so it's ok. The it happens argument is weak. You get caught, you get punished.

You misunderstood me. I don't agree with it (money to injure players)....it has been going on for decades.....this is nothing new at all. That is football. Don't fool yourself. It is a very violent, take no prisoners game.

How do you know this? Money for INTs and fumbles is one thing. Money for big hits even is one thing. Money to take a guy out of the game or take him out on a stretcher? That's a crime: conspiracy to commit assault. If I were the local DA I would charge them with a crime.

The difference is the Saints were dumb enough to call it "take him out with an injury" bonus......other teams that had (and let's again not be naive and black and white here) hit bounties for big hits.....what kind of intentions do you think a lot of those hits had?Come on guys.Have you ever been part of a locker room, football teams at any level? It is friggin insane. Killers some of these guys. Absolute bad intentions with every tackle and hit. Twisting ankles in pile ups, all kinds of stuff going on for decades.....DECADES at every level.I don't agree with it. My point is...how can this surprise anyone?And yes I consider it assault in the real world. But the NFL is not the real world.....it is our gladiator arena. These are our gladiators.Just like James Woods in Any Given Sunday put it. These guys are looking to win, hit hard, with bad intentions and take guys out.To win.Brutally honest....that is all i am doing here. Being brutally honest.I hope they clean up the game. there are plenty of guys who play and hit for the sport, not for the blood. But there are a decent amount of guys at all levels who are killers.

Take a hike Saint's Homer!

Wish I was. I am a piss poor lowly Dolphins homer.I don't agree with what the Saints did. I don't condone it. I felt they should be punished. I have no problems with it.Excessive...IMO yes a little. But no issues at all with the punishment overall. I could care less. They are all well paid. No lost sleep here over there welfare.They got caught.And the message has been sent it will not be tolerated. But they are one of 32 teams that did this. Maybe not to the degree the Saints did......but this is going on all over the country at many levels.Proof? No, no proof.Common sense.

 

[Amused to Death]

Where does the money for the bounties come from?

You mean besides the twice convicted (3x?) felon who's friends with Payton?

 

[Gadabout]

So the Saints don't draft until round 3 this year? Oof.

Nothing's ever guaranteed ... but the Saints have probably been the best team in the NFL over the last five years or so with late draft picks (e.g. Carl Nicks) and with UDFAs (e.g Pierre Thomas). I wouldn't bet on the Saints' getting shut out of landing good rookie players over the next two seasons.

Yep. I would trade Payton's suspension for losing three 1sts in a heartbeat.

 

[guderian]

So the Saints don't draft until round 3 this year? Oof.

Meh. Saints are usually drafting at the end of each round anyway.

 

[JamesTheScot]

I thought I was going to be in the minority in thinking that this is excessive, but it looks like I'm not. This strikes me as being way too much considering how lightly NE got off when they were caught blatantly cheating.

1. NE cheating didn't put players' health and careers at risk.2. Look at how the NFL has been considering player safety over the last couple of seasons and the player lawsuits over injuries. And then you have proof that some coaches are coaching their players to take players out?3. Look at how much grief Goodell has taken from players on his discipline of players.I'm surprised, but just because I wasn't sure Goodell would come down that hard on coaches and, more indirectly, owners.

 

[Doug B]

Where does the money for the bounties come from?

A combination of players chipping in, Gregg Williams himself putting in, and Michael Ornstein (Payton's d-bag friend) throwing in some cash.

 

[Dexter Manley]

So the Saints don't draft until round 3 this year? Oof.

It could be worse. If they didn't trade their 1st round pick last season, I'm pretty sure the league would have taken that (instead of their 2nd) and then maybe a 3rd round pick next year (instead of a 2nd).

 

[ArcticEdge]

So the Saints don't draft until round 3 this year? Oof.

Meh. Saints are usually drafting at the end of each round anyway.

Listen, Im a big Doug B fan, but #### the Saints!!! #### them!!!!

 

[Johnny Bing]

I hope this is not the end of the investigation, because if the buck stops here the judgment is highly unfair. These are professional athletes, not to mention adults who have just as much of a conscience as the coaching staff. I understand and agree 100% the staff is wrong for offering bounties, but I also feel it is unjust to turn the other way and say the defense players who committed these acts are innocent in the eyes of Goodell.

A player could have easily stood up and said it is wrong to injure a player and get paid for it. To accept cash from coach for performing the hit on that player is just as guilty.

IMO if you are going to fault the coaches, you have to punish the player also. They are grown men, who could have made the right decision.

 

[Doug B]

I understand and agree 100% the staff is wrong for offering bounties, but I also feel it is unjust to turn the other way and say the defense players who committed these acts are innocent in the eyes of Goodell.

A player could have easily stood up and said it is wrong to injure a player and get paid for it. To accept cash from coach for performing the hit on that player is just as guilty.

IMO if you are going to fault the coaches, you have to punish the player also. They are grown men, who could have made the right decision.

Player suspensions are a fait accomplit ... only the specifics are being worked out right now.

 

[guderian]

Donte Stallworth got a 1 year suspension for manslaughter.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I hope this is not the end of the investigation, because if the buck stops here the judgment is highly unfair. These are professional athletes, not to mention adults who have just as much of a conscience as the coaching staff. I understand and agree 100% the staff is wrong for offering bounties, but I also feel it is unjust to turn the other way and say the defense players who committed these acts are innocent in the eyes of Goodell. A player could have easily stood up and said it is wrong to injure a player and get paid for it. To accept cash from coach for performing the hit on that player is just as guilty. IMO if you are going to fault the coaches, you have to punish the player also. They are grown men, who could have made the right decision.

Do you have any reason to think the players are not going to be punished?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Where does the money for the bounties come from?

A combination of players chipping in, Gregg Williams himself putting in, and Michael Ornstein (Payton's d-bag friend) throwing in some cash.

TY Doug, and while it doesn't matter or really need to be said, I've always found the Saints fans to be very nice on these boards, they suffered a lot leading up to the 2009 season. I really hope they can keep moving forward. They still have a bundle of talent and a HoF QB.