Seattle @ Washington ... Pregame chatter (1 Viewer)

[T Bell]

Shanahan inherited the Haynesworth problem. He wanted to run a 3-4 with his new team. He wasn't going to stick with the 4-3 because of one disgruntled player who didn't want to make the transition. Shanahan's handling of Haynesworth, and his subsequent ejection from the roster, set the tone for the top-to-bottom culture change that Shanahan oversaw the past three seasons, which is a huge part of why we're as competitive as we are right now.

Haynesworth was a signing from the prior year with Zorn there, and Shanahan decided he was going to bend him to his will as an example and then get rid of him.

 

[T Bell]

I think the Seahawks have a major advantage with Leon Washington vs a weak-legged Kai Forbath.

I feel like I saw a quote earlier this year where Forbath said the Skins intentionally kick it to the goal line and the corners instead of through the end zone. He said something about how he could kick it through the end zone but that wasn't the "game plan." Seemed like a kind of stupid "game plan" to me, but maybe I misheard.ETA: No, I was right. Here it is.

Why is the only good tactic to you kicking the ball through the end zone? The Redskins special teams are solid, and in fact they're the one sending the special teams representative, Lorenzo Alexander, to the Pro Bowl. Angling the ball, which you can't do nearly as effectively when you kick as hard as you can, allows them to tilt the coverage to one side of the field and limit big run backs, while also inducing blocking penalties ("half the distance to the goal") and fumbles.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I think the Seahawks have a major advantage with Leon Washington vs a weak-legged Kai Forbath.

I feel like I saw a quote earlier this year where Forbath said the Skins intentionally kick it to the goal line and the corners instead of through the end zone. He said something about how he could kick it through the end zone but that wasn't the "game plan." Seemed like a kind of stupid "game plan" to me, but maybe I misheard.ETA: No, I was right. Here it is.

Why is the only good tactic to you kicking the ball through the end zone? The Redskins special teams are solid, and in fact they're the one sending the special teams representative, Lorenzo Alexander, to the Pro Bowl. Angling the ball, which you can't do nearly as effectively when you kick as hard as you can, allows them to tilt the coverage to one side of the field and limit big run backs, while also inducing blocking penalties ("half the distance to the goal") and fumbles.

Good points. And if the NFL ever copies the NCAA and moves up touchbacks to the 25 this will become even bigger.

 

[proninja]

The case from Redskins Nation

 

[TobiasFunke]

I think the Seahawks have a major advantage with Leon Washington vs a weak-legged Kai Forbath.

I feel like I saw a quote earlier this year where Forbath said the Skins intentionally kick it to the goal line and the corners instead of through the end zone. He said something about how he could kick it through the end zone but that wasn't the "game plan." Seemed like a kind of stupid "game plan" to me, but maybe I misheard.ETA: No, I was right. Here it is.

Why is the only good tactic to you kicking the ball through the end zone? The Redskins special teams are solid, and in fact they're the one sending the special teams representative, Lorenzo Alexander, to the Pro Bowl. Angling the ball, which you can't do nearly as effectively when you kick as hard as you can, allows them to tilt the coverage to one side of the field and limit big run backs, while also inducing blocking penalties ("half the distance to the goal") and fumbles.

I understand the arguments for it too. But there are a lot of downsides to forfeiting touchbacks in favor of this strategy. Greater chance of a long return/score, obviously. Greater chance of a penalty for an OB kick. But hey, I'm a stat dork. Show me the Skins' numbers on their opponents' average starting field position after kickoffs relative to the rest of the league. Might also be useful to see if there's a correlation leaguewide between touchback % and average field position- in other words, if the teams that try for touchbacks more often give up longer returns when they fail often enough for the cost to outweigh the bebnefit. If their strategy works, I'll tip my hat to 'em.

 

[T Bell]

Here's another article that breaks down the Redskins tape and explains keys to the Seahawks winning the game.

For those of you following the FieldGulls articles I've been linking, this one is pretty interesting in terms of what Washington is doing on offense and what might disrupt them.

So the conclusion is that in an outdoor road playoff game against an explosive offense the key on offense is for the Seahawks to run the ball and control the clock, and on defense it's to prevent the primary and secondary receivers from getting open. That's some profound stuff right there.

 

[Incogneto]

...Why is there no poll on this thread? Can we get one?

 

[butcher boy]

Here's another article that breaks down the Redskins tape and explains keys to the Seahawks winning the game.

For those of you following the FieldGulls articles I've been linking, this one is pretty interesting in terms of what Washington is doing on offense and what might disrupt them.

So the conclusion is that in an outdoor road playoff game against an explosive offense the key on offense is for the Seahawks to run the ball and control the clock, and on defense it's to prevent the primary and secondary receivers from getting open. That's some profound stuff right there.

Personally, I think that if they score more points than the other team, they have a better shot at winning.

 

[CapnJB]

Here's another article that breaks down the Redskins tape and explains keys to the Seahawks winning the game.

For those of you following the FieldGulls articles I've been linking, this one is pretty interesting in terms of what Washington is doing on offense and what might disrupt them.

So the conclusion is that in an outdoor road playoff game against an explosive offense the key on offense is for the Seahawks to run the ball and control the clock, and on defense it's to prevent the primary and secondary receivers from getting open. That's some profound stuff right there.

Personally, I think that if they score more points than the other team, they have a better shot at winning.

As long as they execute. That's important too.

 

[Sabertooth]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

 

[biju]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

If you're going to let fans dictate who you like and you don't like in the NFL you might as well not watch football. Every team in the NFL has people rooting for injury, death, etc. against opposing teams. They also have their fair share of excited fans, much like ITS.

 

[dgreen]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

If you're going to let fans dictate who you like and you don't like in the NFL you might as well not watch football. Every team in the NFL has people rooting for injury, death, etc. against opposing teams. They also have their fair share of excited fans, much like ITS.

Sure, every team has crazy or annoying fans. But, if I don't ever interact with them, then they don't play a factor in my feelings toward the team. I never thought twice about my like or dislike of the Steelers until I became friends at work with a guy who is pretty annoying about the Steelers. Now I can't stand the Steelers.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

 

[Sabertooth]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

You're like Sho Nuff but without any trophies in your team's case and twice the bravado.

 

[biju]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

You're like Sho Nuff but without any trophies in your team's case and twice the bravado.

There it is! No Seahawks thread is complete without it. You can't have confidence in your team unless some completely different team from the past has won the Superbowl? Yeah, that makes sense...

 

[mad sweeney]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

You're like Sho Nuff but without any trophies in your team's case and twice the bravado.

There it is! No Seahawks thread is complete without it. You can't have confidence in your team unless some completely different team from the past has won the Superbowl? Yeah, that makes sense...

C'mon, that was funny.

 

[Apple Jack]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

You're like Sho Nuff but without any trophies in your team's case and twice the bravado.

There it is! No Seahawks thread is complete without it. You can't have confidence in your team unless some completely different team from the past has won the Superbowl? Yeah, that makes sense...

You guys are on this team?

 

[drummer]

The 49ers have 5 rings, but that doesn't give them an edge or not this season.

 

[mad sweeney]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

You're like Sho Nuff but without any trophies in your team's case and twice the bravado.

There it is! No Seahawks thread is complete without it. You can't have confidence in your team unless some completely different team from the past has won the Superbowl? Yeah, that makes sense...

You guys are on this team?

Ooooooh. Sick burn.

 

[Alkahsu]

I think the Seahawks have a major advantage with Leon Washington vs a weak-legged Kai Forbath.

I feel like I saw a quote earlier this year where Forbath said the Skins intentionally kick it to the goal line and the corners instead of through the end zone. He said something about how he could kick it through the end zone but that wasn't the "game plan." Seemed like a kind of stupid "game plan" to me, but maybe I misheard.ETA: No, I was right. Here it is.

Why is the only good tactic to you kicking the ball through the end zone? The Redskins special teams are solid, and in fact they're the one sending the special teams representative, Lorenzo Alexander, to the Pro Bowl. Angling the ball, which you can't do nearly as effectively when you kick as hard as you can, allows them to tilt the coverage to one side of the field and limit big run backs, while also inducing blocking penalties ("half the distance to the goal") and fumbles.

27th in the league is solid?

 

[ScottyDog]

I can't wait until Sunday so that the 'Hawks can roll the Redskins by 17+ and send these Redskin fans running for cover.

I think the Seahawks have a major advantage with Leon Washington vs a weak-legged Kai Forbath.

I feel like I saw a quote earlier this year where Forbath said the Skins intentionally kick it to the goal line and the corners instead of through the end zone. He said something about how he could kick it through the end zone but that wasn't the "game plan." Seemed like a kind of stupid "game plan" to me, but maybe I misheard.ETA: No, I was right. Here it is.

Why is the only good tactic to you kicking the ball through the end zone? The Redskins special teams are solid, and in fact they're the one sending the special teams representative, Lorenzo Alexander, to the Pro Bowl. Angling the ball, which you can't do nearly as effectively when you kick as hard as you can, allows them to tilt the coverage to one side of the field and limit big run backs, while also inducing blocking penalties ("half the distance to the goal") and fumbles.

27th in the league is solid?

 

[MikeApf]

I can't wait until Sunday so that the 'Hawks can roll the Redskins by 17+ and send these Redskin fans running for cover.

I think the Seahawks have a major advantage with Leon Washington vs a weak-legged Kai Forbath.

I feel like I saw a quote earlier this year where Forbath said the Skins intentionally kick it to the goal line and the corners instead of through the end zone. He said something about how he could kick it through the end zone but that wasn't the "game plan." Seemed like a kind of stupid "game plan" to me, but maybe I misheard.ETA: No, I was right. Here it is.

Why is the only good tactic to you kicking the ball through the end zone? The Redskins special teams are solid, and in fact they're the one sending the special teams representative, Lorenzo Alexander, to the Pro Bowl. Angling the ball, which you can't do nearly as effectively when you kick as hard as you can, allows them to tilt the coverage to one side of the field and limit big run backs, while also inducing blocking penalties ("half the distance to the goal") and fumbles.

27th in the league is solid?

Um...I've seen that 27th in the league stat too on Football Outsiders. Unfortunately it doesn't address the specific metric that is being discussed here. We don't need a stat on special teams generally that involves Redskins return yards. We need a stat that focuses on Opponent Kickoff Return Yards. To that end, this stat is much more pertinent. If you go to the following site, teams are rated based on opponent kick return yards.http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards/position/defense

On this list, I believe the best way to look at the stats in our particular context is to sort the list so that you are looking at Average Kick Return Yards by Opponent/per Kickoff. Redskins rank 12th in the league in this measure. 23 yards per kick return. Interestingly, Seattle is 11th at 22.9 per kick return.

So, looking at the actual stats, the Redskins approach does appear to be solid.

 

[Alkahsu]

Well if they're 12th in one metric, but 27th overall that would mean they are really bad at the other metrics that make up special teams.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Well if they're 12th in one metric, but 27th overall that would mean they are really bad at the other metrics that make up special teams.

and I believe he meant 12th just in the NFC

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Vegas has no love for WAS

Odds to win SB:

SEA 9/1

WAS 20/1

Odds to win NFC Championship:

SEA 3/1

WAS 10/1

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/

 

[Hang 10]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

You're like Sho Nuff but without any trophies in your team's case and twice the bravado.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Josh Wilson AMA

 

[mad sweeney]

Josh Wilson AMA

I was extremely unhappy with Ruskell and Moron Jr for trading him away. He'd really have no place on the team now, but at the time he was traded the DBs were short handed and underperforming. Hmmmm, that was Moron Jr's unit. Interesting.

 

[Incogneto]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

You're like Sho Nuff but without any trophies in your team's case and twice the bravado.

Trust me, I am a huge Seahawk fan, and Scientist is an embarrassment to us all. He makes ME not want to cheer for the Seahawks, and I have been a fan for 25 years.

 

[T Bell]

I think the Seahawks have a major advantage with Leon Washington vs a weak-legged Kai Forbath.

I feel like I saw a quote earlier this year where Forbath said the Skins intentionally kick it to the goal line and the corners instead of through the end zone. He said something about how he could kick it through the end zone but that wasn't the "game plan." Seemed like a kind of stupid "game plan" to me, but maybe I misheard.ETA: No, I was right. Here it is.

Why is the only good tactic to you kicking the ball through the end zone? The Redskins special teams are solid, and in fact they're the one sending the special teams representative, Lorenzo Alexander, to the Pro Bowl. Angling the ball, which you can't do nearly as effectively when you kick as hard as you can, allows them to tilt the coverage to one side of the field and limit big run backs, while also inducing blocking penalties ("half the distance to the goal") and fumbles.

27th in the league is solid?

As measured by what?

 

[ImTheScientist]

Scientist really makes it hard to like Seattle. I like them as a team and I'm just assuming that he is not representative of their fan base #######....oops I meants as a whole.

You're like Sho Nuff but without any trophies in your team's case and twice the bravado.

Trust me, I am a huge Seahawk fan, and Scientist is an embarrassment to us all. He makes ME not want to cheer for the Seahawks, and I have been a fan for 25 years.

You should check yourself if a random internet dude makes you not want to cheer for your favorite team.

 

[Alkahsu]

I think the Seahawks have a major advantage with Leon Washington vs a weak-legged Kai Forbath.

I feel like I saw a quote earlier this year where Forbath said the Skins intentionally kick it to the goal line and the corners instead of through the end zone. He said something about how he could kick it through the end zone but that wasn't the "game plan." Seemed like a kind of stupid "game plan" to me, but maybe I misheard.ETA: No, I was right. Here it is.

Why is the only good tactic to you kicking the ball through the end zone? The Redskins special teams are solid, and in fact they're the one sending the special teams representative, Lorenzo Alexander, to the Pro Bowl. Angling the ball, which you can't do nearly as effectively when you kick as hard as you can, allows them to tilt the coverage to one side of the field and limit big run backs, while also inducing blocking penalties ("half the distance to the goal") and fumbles.

27th in the league is solid?

As measured by what?

Defense-adjusted Value Over Average for field goals/extra points, kickoffs, kick returns, punts and punt returns.

 

[MikeApf]

Well if they're 12th in one metric, but 27th overall that would mean they are really bad at the other metrics that make up special teams.

Again, that has nothing to do with what was being discussed. What people were saying was that the Redskins strategy of kicking short on kickoffs was not sound and simply a matter of the kicker having a weak leg. What the statistic shows is that the strategy really is sound. If you want to argue about other aspects of special teams that's fine but I was simply addressing the actual topic being discussed.

 

[MikeApf]

Well if they're 12th in one metric, but 27th overall that would mean they are really bad at the other metrics that make up special teams.

and I believe he meant 12th just in the NFC

Nope...12th in the NFL. Follow the link above and you'll see the stats. It's from ESPN.com so a credible source.Sorry, guys...the Redskins kickoff strategy is sound. I thought you all were the stat guys!

 

[ImTheScientist]

Well if they're 12th in one metric, but 27th overall that would mean they are really bad at the other metrics that make up special teams.

Again, that has nothing to do with what was being discussed. What people were saying was that the Redskins strategy of kicking short on kickoffs was not sound and simply a matter of the kicker having a weak leg. What the statistic shows is that the strategy really is sound. If you want to argue about other aspects of special teams that's fine but I was simply addressing the actual topic being discussed.

If he had the ability to kick it deep into the endzone consistently....he would be doing that.http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2012/final-2012-dvoa-ratingsRanks the redskins 27th. Thats as a unit though.

 

[MikeApf]

We've talked a lot in this thread about how the Seahawk fans seem really confident their team will win on Sunday...it's almost like a foregone conclusion that they'll win...while the Redskins fans kind of see it as a really tough match up and a pickem game at best. We've blamed this a lot on the supposed overconfidence of the Seattle fans on this board but I have to say in listening to the media generally, it is not just Seattle fans on this board, it's really the entire media right now that is picking Seattle to win. I was listening to sports radio in DC today and they were mentioning that of these CBS experts, 8 out of 10 picked Seattle to win. Vegas has Seattle favored by 3 even though Skins are at home. Basically, the entire football community outside of Washington, DC, considers this a lopsided match up which the Hawks will win because of their superior, physical defense.

And this sets up perfectly for Washington. As a fan, I absolutely LOVE them being a home dog in this game. No one thinks they will win. Everyone is riding the Seattle hype train and predicting them to win. All the pressure is now on Seattle. The Redskins are free to do what they've done since the bye, which is just let it all loose and play the game with nothing to lose. I've been listening to Redskins interviews on the radio and all of them are singing Seattle's praises, talking about what a great team they are. But underneath, you know they hear the talk that no one thinks they can win.

I love it. Let Seattle come in here thinking the game is in the bag. And once they face a little adversity, see how they handle the pressure. I mean, if they don't win by 17, they are a whopping failure, right?

This sets up well for Washington.

 

[southeastjerome]

I think the Seahawks have a major advantage with Leon Washington vs a weak-legged Kai Forbath.

I feel like I saw a quote earlier this year where Forbath said the Skins intentionally kick it to the goal line and the corners instead of through the end zone. He said something about how he could kick it through the end zone but that wasn't the "game plan." Seemed like a kind of stupid "game plan" to me, but maybe I misheard.ETA: No, I was right. Here it is.

Why is the only good tactic to you kicking the ball through the end zone? The Redskins special teams are solid, and in fact they're the one sending the special teams representative, Lorenzo Alexander, to the Pro Bowl. Angling the ball, which you can't do nearly as effectively when you kick as hard as you can, allows them to tilt the coverage to one side of the field and limit big run backs, while also inducing blocking penalties ("half the distance to the goal") and fumbles.

27th in the league is solid?

Their special teams coverage has been excellent, Forbath hadn't missed until last week and Rocca has been solid. They are mediocre at best in the return game though. You Seattle fans pretty much do not have to worry about the Skins doing big things in the return game.

 

[MikeApf]

Well if they're 12th in one metric, but 27th overall that would mean they are really bad at the other metrics that make up special teams.

Again, that has nothing to do with what was being discussed. What people were saying was that the Redskins strategy of kicking short on kickoffs was not sound and simply a matter of the kicker having a weak leg. What the statistic shows is that the strategy really is sound. If you want to argue about other aspects of special teams that's fine but I was simply addressing the actual topic being discussed.

If he had the ability to kick it deep into the endzone consistently....he would be doing that.http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2012/final-2012-dvoa-ratingsRanks the redskins 27th.

See posts above. The 27 ranking takes into account a bunch of stuff like field goals, Redskins return yardage, etc. that has nothing to do with this debate. According to ESPN, Redskins rank 12th in teh NFL in terms of opponent return yardage on kickoffs. See the posts above for the link. The stat you quote is not accurate for this argument. It doesn't focus just on return yardage and you have to do that in this case.

 

[MikeApf]

Well if they're 12th in one metric, but 27th overall that would mean they are really bad at the other metrics that make up special teams.

Again, that has nothing to do with what was being discussed. What people were saying was that the Redskins strategy of kicking short on kickoffs was not sound and simply a matter of the kicker having a weak leg. What the statistic shows is that the strategy really is sound. If you want to argue about other aspects of special teams that's fine but I was simply addressing the actual topic being discussed.

If he had the ability to kick it deep into the endzone consistently....he would be doing that.http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2012/final-2012-dvoa-ratingsRanks the redskins 27th.

See posts above. The 27 ranking takes into account a bunch of stuff like field goals, Redskins return yardage, etc. that has nothing to do with this debate. According to ESPN, Redskins rank 12th in teh NFL in terms of opponent return yardage on kickoffs. See the posts above for the link. The stat you quote is not accurate for this argument. It doesn't focus just on return yardage and you have to do that in this case.

Here's the link again: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards/position/defenseSort the stats so you are seeing return yards per kick. This is really disappointing to me. You guys are supposedly stat experts and you aren't even willing to use stats that actually address the argument.

 

[ImTheScientist]

We've talked a lot in this thread about how the Seahawk fans seem really confident their team will win on Sunday...it's almost like a foregone conclusion that they'll win...while the Redskins fans kind of see it as a really tough match up and a pickem game at best. We've blamed this a lot on the supposed overconfidence of the Seattle fans on this board but I have to say in listening to the media generally, it is not just Seattle fans on this board, it's really the entire media right now that is picking Seattle to win. I was listening to sports radio in DC today and they were mentioning that of these CBS experts, 8 out of 10 picked Seattle to win. Vegas has Seattle favored by 3 even though Skins are at home. Basically, the entire football community outside of Washington, DC, considers this a lopsided match up which the Hawks will win because of their superior, physical defense.And this sets up perfectly for Washington. As a fan, I absolutely LOVE them being a home dog in this game. No one thinks they will win. Everyone is riding the Seattle hype train and predicting them to win. All the pressure is now on Seattle. The Redskins are free to do what they've done since the bye, which is just let it all loose and play the game with nothing to lose. I've been listening to Redskins interviews on the radio and all of them are singing Seattle's praises, talking about what a great team they are. But underneath, you know they hear the talk that no one thinks they can win. I love it. Let Seattle come in here thinking the game is in the bag. And once they face a little adversity, see how they handle the pressure. I mean, if they don't win by 17, they are a whopping failure, right?This sets up well for Washington.

Typical response of a home dog....like you cut and paste it from a book. Trust me, I have played that game many of times as a Seahawks fan. Teams are favored because they stand a better chance of winning the game, doesn't mean it always happens. Is it expected to happen? Yes, it is expected the Seahawks win. Does this affect the players? They are all playing to go to the Superbowl at this point.

 

[MikeApf]

We've talked a lot in this thread about how the Seahawk fans seem really confident their team will win on Sunday...it's almost like a foregone conclusion that they'll win...while the Redskins fans kind of see it as a really tough match up and a pickem game at best. We've blamed this a lot on the supposed overconfidence of the Seattle fans on this board but I have to say in listening to the media generally, it is not just Seattle fans on this board, it's really the entire media right now that is picking Seattle to win. I was listening to sports radio in DC today and they were mentioning that of these CBS experts, 8 out of 10 picked Seattle to win. Vegas has Seattle favored by 3 even though Skins are at home. Basically, the entire football community outside of Washington, DC, considers this a lopsided match up which the Hawks will win because of their superior, physical defense.And this sets up perfectly for Washington. As a fan, I absolutely LOVE them being a home dog in this game. No one thinks they will win. Everyone is riding the Seattle hype train and predicting them to win. All the pressure is now on Seattle. The Redskins are free to do what they've done since the bye, which is just let it all loose and play the game with nothing to lose. I've been listening to Redskins interviews on the radio and all of them are singing Seattle's praises, talking about what a great team they are. But underneath, you know they hear the talk that no one thinks they can win. I love it. Let Seattle come in here thinking the game is in the bag. And once they face a little adversity, see how they handle the pressure. I mean, if they don't win by 17, they are a whopping failure, right?This sets up well for Washington.

Typical response of a home dog....like you cut and paste it from a book. Trust me, I have played that game many of times as a Seahawks fan. Teams are favored because they stand a better chance of winning the game, doesn't mean it always happens. Is it expected to happen? Yes, it is expected the Seahawks win. Does this affect the players? They are all playing to go to the Superbowl at this point.

Hey I'm just trying to stir the pot. You didn't expect me to just let you all talk all the smack, did ya? ;-)That said, I actually do think this is going to motivate Washington, I really do. However, where I agree with you is that I don't think the actual Seahawk players are taking the game lightly. Seriously, I do think the media and the fans are overhyping them a bit, acting like it won't even be a close game. But, I think the team will come to play.

 

[mad sweeney]

We've talked a lot in this thread about how the Seahawk fans seem really confident their team will win on Sunday...it's almost like a foregone conclusion that they'll win...while the Redskins fans kind of see it as a really tough match up and a pickem game at best. We've blamed this a lot on the supposed overconfidence of the Seattle fans on this board but I have to say in listening to the media generally, it is not just Seattle fans on this board, it's really the entire media right now that is picking Seattle to win. I was listening to sports radio in DC today and they were mentioning that of these CBS experts, 8 out of 10 picked Seattle to win. Vegas has Seattle favored by 3 even though Skins are at home. Basically, the entire football community outside of Washington, DC, considers this a lopsided match up which the Hawks will win because of their superior, physical defense.And this sets up perfectly for Washington. As a fan, I absolutely LOVE them being a home dog in this game. No one thinks they will win. Everyone is riding the Seattle hype train and predicting them to win. All the pressure is now on Seattle. The Redskins are free to do what they've done since the bye, which is just let it all loose and play the game with nothing to lose. I've been listening to Redskins interviews on the radio and all of them are singing Seattle's praises, talking about what a great team they are. But underneath, you know they hear the talk that no one thinks they can win. I love it. Let Seattle come in here thinking the game is in the bag. And once they face a little adversity, see how they handle the pressure. I mean, if they don't win by 17, they are a whopping failure, right?This sets up well for Washington.

First of all, being a 3 point favorite doesn't mean people consider it to be a "lopsided match". Even if a majority of people are picking Seattle, very few are saying lopsided. Second, if they had blown out the Rams then your overconfidence statements might be a little more concerning. As I said earlier in the thread, I am glad they had to struggle against the Rams (again, the Rams are well coached and nowhere near the pushovers they've been for years) so that they DIDN'T go into Washington without facing adversity. Granted, on principle I do enjoy blowing out the Rams whenever possible. But I view it as a good thing in this case.

 

[mad sweeney]

We've talked a lot in this thread about how the Seahawk fans seem really confident their team will win on Sunday...it's almost like a foregone conclusion that they'll win...while the Redskins fans kind of see it as a really tough match up and a pickem game at best. We've blamed this a lot on the supposed overconfidence of the Seattle fans on this board but I have to say in listening to the media generally, it is not just Seattle fans on this board, it's really the entire media right now that is picking Seattle to win. I was listening to sports radio in DC today and they were mentioning that of these CBS experts, 8 out of 10 picked Seattle to win. Vegas has Seattle favored by 3 even though Skins are at home. Basically, the entire football community outside of Washington, DC, considers this a lopsided match up which the Hawks will win because of their superior, physical defense.

And this sets up perfectly for Washington. As a fan, I absolutely LOVE them being a home dog in this game. No one thinks they will win. Everyone is riding the Seattle hype train and predicting them to win. All the pressure is now on Seattle. The Redskins are free to do what they've done since the bye, which is just let it all loose and play the game with nothing to lose. I've been listening to Redskins interviews on the radio and all of them are singing Seattle's praises, talking about what a great team they are. But underneath, you know they hear the talk that no one thinks they can win.

I love it. Let Seattle come in here thinking the game is in the bag. And once they face a little adversity, see how they handle the pressure. I mean, if they don't win by 17, they are a whopping failure, right?

This sets up well for Washington.

Typical response of a home dog....like you cut and paste it from a book. Trust me, I have played that game many of times as a Seahawks fan. Teams are favored because they stand a better chance of winning the game, doesn't mean it always happens. Is it expected to happen? Yes, it is expected the Seahawks win. Does this affect the players? They are all playing to go to the Superbowl at this point.

Hey I'm just trying to stir the pot. You didn't expect me to just let you all talk all the smack, did ya? ;-)That said, I actually do think this is going to motivate Washington, I really do. However, where I agree with you is that I don't think the actual Seahawk players are taking the game lightly. Seriously, I do think the media and the fans are overhyping them a bit, acting like it won't even be a close game. But, I think the team will come to play.

I haven't watched any talking heads today, but I heven't really seen this yet. Ten points is the biggest I think I've seen as a prediction.

 

[biju]

Well if they're 12th in one metric, but 27th overall that would mean they are really bad at the other metrics that make up special teams.

Again, that has nothing to do with what was being discussed. What people were saying was that the Redskins strategy of kicking short on kickoffs was not sound and simply a matter of the kicker having a weak leg. What the statistic shows is that the strategy really is sound. If you want to argue about other aspects of special teams that's fine but I was simply addressing the actual topic being discussed.

If he had the ability to kick it deep into the endzone consistently....he would be doing that.http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2012/final-2012-dvoa-ratingsRanks the redskins 27th.

See posts above. The 27 ranking takes into account a bunch of stuff like field goals, Redskins return yardage, etc. that has nothing to do with this debate. According to ESPN, Redskins rank 12th in teh NFL in terms of opponent return yardage on kickoffs. See the posts above for the link. The stat you quote is not accurate for this argument. It doesn't focus just on return yardage and you have to do that in this case.

Here's the link again: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards/position/defenseSort the stats so you are seeing return yards per kick. This is really disappointing to me. You guys are supposedly stat experts and you aren't even willing to use stats that actually address the argument.

In all fairness, you're using a return yardage ranking in (what I would assume is) a discussion of field position, which doesn't address how far a kicker is kicking the ball. If a team were so inclined they could kick an onsides kick every time and effectively have zero yardage in returns, however that doesn't equate into better field position.

 

[Alkahsu]

Well if they're 12th in one metric, but 27th overall that would mean they are really bad at the other metrics that make up special teams.

Again, that has nothing to do with what was being discussed. What people were saying was that the Redskins strategy of kicking short on kickoffs was not sound and simply a matter of the kicker having a weak leg. What the statistic shows is that the strategy really is sound. If you want to argue about other aspects of special teams that's fine but I was simply addressing the actual topic being discussed.

And I was just pointing out the overall rank as I'm more concerned with every aspect of special teams, so while it might not deal exactly with what you're talking about its still something that needs to be considered when discussing special teams, but the 2 teams do have a lot of similarities in many areas.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I can't wait until Sunday so that the 'Hawks can roll the Redskins by 17+ and send these Redskin fans running for cover.

I think the Seahawks have a major advantage with Leon Washington vs a weak-legged Kai Forbath.

I feel like I saw a quote earlier this year where Forbath said the Skins intentionally kick it to the goal line and the corners instead of through the end zone. He said something about how he could kick it through the end zone but that wasn't the "game plan." Seemed like a kind of stupid "game plan" to me, but maybe I misheard.ETA: No, I was right. Here it is.

Why is the only good tactic to you kicking the ball through the end zone? The Redskins special teams are solid, and in fact they're the one sending the special teams representative, Lorenzo Alexander, to the Pro Bowl. Angling the ball, which you can't do nearly as effectively when you kick as hard as you can, allows them to tilt the coverage to one side of the field and limit big run backs, while also inducing blocking penalties ("half the distance to the goal") and fumbles.

27th in the league is solid?

Um...I've seen that 27th in the league stat too on Football Outsiders. Unfortunately it doesn't address the specific metric that is being discussed here. We don't need a stat on special teams generally that involves Redskins return yards. We need a stat that focuses on Opponent Kickoff Return Yards. To that end, this stat is much more pertinent. If you go to the following site, teams are rated based on opponent kick return yards.http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/kickReturnYards/position/defense

On this list, I believe the best way to look at the stats in our particular context is to sort the list so that you are looking at Average Kick Return Yards by Opponent/per Kickoff. Redskins rank 12th in the league in this measure. 23 yards per kick return. Interestingly, Seattle is 11th at 22.9 per kick return.

So, looking at the actual stats, the Redskins approach does appear to be solid.

I think that stat is only for return yards, so it doesn't include touchbacks and it doesn't account for whether returned kicks go to the goal line or the 5 or 10, although I may be wrong- the site doesn't explain it very well Anyway, what we need to evaluate the Redskins' approach is opponents' average starting field position following kickoffs. I looked around a bit but couldn't find it anywhere. Anybody else have that data?

 

[ImTheScientist]

The more I think about this game the less of a chance I feel the Redskins actually have.

 

[texasheat]

The more I think about this game the less of a chance I feel the Redskins actually have.

lol shocking coming from you

 

[Sabertooth]

The more I think about this game the less of a chance I feel the Redskins actually have.

Quoted for posterity.

 

[Incogneto]

The more I think about this game the less of a chance I feel the Redskins actually have.

Quoted for posterity.

no Sh!*. Why are you even saying things like this!??!?!