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Self Driving Cars (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant

Guide
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Thought this was interesting.

Posted in the EV thread but some said it could be it's own thread.

I'm more interested in fully self driving than I am EV although I know it's mostly EVs that have it.

https://x.com/DallasAptGP/status/1992696100323766605?s=20

In September 2024, I took my first Waymo ride in Santa Monica.

I was not expecting a 20 minute ride to change how I think about driving, cities, and mobility.

But it did.

Within 90 days, I bought a Tesla with the newest self driving hardware.

Now I use self driving 99 percent of the time.

I sit in the driver’s seat because the law requires it, but I am not the one doing the driving.

The part that catches me off guard is not the technology.

It is how few people realize what is already possible.

Whenever someone rides with me, the reaction is the same.

“You are really not touching anything?”
“It can drive through this?”
“This is allowed?”

It shows how far public awareness is behind where the technology actually is.

I read a blog post from Fred Wilson
@avc
earlier today that pushed me to think about this even more. Some people are living with autonomy every day. Others have no idea that it is already here.

I’ve been eagerly following news about which autonomous vehicle services are coming to Dallas.

Waymo is rolling out service in Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio in the coming weeks. Dallas residents have already seen the mapping cars.

This is not a tiny experiment. It is a major deployment of a system that has already been tested in dense, unpredictable environments.

And Dallas is not getting just one network.

It is getting several.

• Waymo
• Avride through Uber
• Lyft with Mobileye
• Robotaxi
• More coming after that

A city goes from zero to multiple autonomous providers in a short window. That is the moment when adoption accelerates.

I am a developer of apartments. As someone who builds in cities, I am most interested in what this means for the built environment. In the long run, this shift will change how we plan, design, and value real estate.

Here are a few things I am watching:

• Parking economics will shift. Structured parking becomes less necessary over time, which affects costs and feasibility.

• Curb space becomes more valuable than parking garages. Pick up and drop off zones matter more than stalls. Cities will need better curb management.

• Commute patterns change. If you are not driving, an extra 20 to 30 minutes feels different. That expands the range of viable neighborhoods.

• Housing demand adjusts. Areas once considered too inconvenient become competitive because mobility improves.

• Safety improves. Fewer collisions change insurance, infrastructure planning, and how we design intersections.

• Mixed use evolves. Retail, logistics, and residential buildings adapt around autonomous access and more efficient circulation.

• Land values shift. Proximity to job centers and transit is still important, but autonomy starts to level the playing field.

This is not a 2035 idea.
This is a 2027 reality.

After almost a year of having a robot drive me every day, I have reached a point where I trust the system in many situations more than I trust myself. It sees in every direction, it reacts faster, and it does not get distracted.

People who say “I will believe it when I see it” are about to see it in Dallas.

The technology is here.

The awareness just has not caught up yet.

And when it does, our cities and our developments will change in ways most people are not thinking about.
 
Are there specific levels and criteria for defining self driving?

Is one company leading in that area?

My uninformed answer would be Tesla is leading there. But that's only because I see Elon Musk talking about it a lot. My best friend loves his Tesla and he claims Musk "has solved" self driving.

But clearly whatever Waymo is using is awesome. Not sure if that translates to regular people driving cars.
 
This has actually taken longer than I expected. It seems like we've been right at the cusp for many years now. How long until I don't need a car in the suburbs?
 
This scares me . Just seems like a tragedy in the making.
There will be an incident, and an outcry. But those incidents happen every day by drivers who are tired and who are undue pressure to make timely delivery. I would venture that in many of the incidents that happen today, other distracted drivers on the road are actually at fault. There will be a huge public outcry, but I believe that it will make roads safer overall.
 
This scares me . Just seems like a tragedy in the making.
Tragedy how?
Glitch in the matrix which allows the truck to get in an accident that may be preventable if it had a driver. Like the self driving cars that plowed into the back of a truck only worse cuz this time the truck will be the rammer. Yul Brynner in Westworld type scenario.
Well sure. But it’s not as if human drivers are anywhere near infallible. There are 100’s of thousands of car crashes every year
 
This scares me . Just seems like a tragedy in the making.
Tragedy how?
Glitch in the matrix which allows the truck to get in an accident that may be preventable if it had a driver. Like the self driving cars that plowed into the back of a truck only worse cuz this time the truck will be the rammer. Yul Brynner in Westworld type scenario.
Well sure. But it’s not as if human drivers are anywhere near infallible. There are 100’s of thousands of car crashes every year
No doubt but imagine a scenario were the driverless truck doesn't recognize traffic is stopped for some reason and runs into a car and kills the occupants. The families will likely sue the pants off the truck owner and manufacturer and claim that a human driver may well have prevented said crash as you can't assume a driver would be negligent and careless but the driverless truck just did what it's mindless program told it to do. Sort of like Corporation said above.
 
Are there specific levels and criteria for defining self driving?

Is one company leading in that area?

My uninformed answer would be Tesla is leading there. But that's only because I see Elon Musk talking about it a lot. My best friend loves his Tesla and he claims Musk "has solved" self driving.

But clearly whatever Waymo is using is awesome. Not sure if that translates to regular people driving cars.
I’ve been looking into this , we drive Florida/MA every 3-4 months and would love to if this could be utilized for part of the trip. I watched this video last week and was surprised with his results between Tesla/Lucid/Rivian

 
I dont know how these will work here in Portland. One dramatic change from how people drive here vs other places I've been is how so many drivers allow jaywalking. People go out of their way to stop for anyone who looks like they might want to cross. It's conditioned pedestrians to just cross whenever the hell they feel like it, and its always felt dangerous to me dangerous to me. I dont know how a Waymo would react to that. But if it criminalizes jaywalking again, I'm for it.
 
Gladwell made an interesting point how bc these vehicles go above and beyond to be safe with pedestrians it will be easy for walkers in big cities to take advantage of that. Somewhere like nyc would just be gridlock with the way pedestrians force themselves into the road even with people driving cars. Then there's all the food delivery bike riders now.

I'm mostly just excited to take advantage of this tech on road trips. Like a self driving rv where you can just sit back and take in the scenery or take a nap.
 
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I took a Waymo this weekend. Still awesome but pricing is definitely up during busy times. $65 (with 20% off!) to my location 7 miles away at 7pm. $16 home from same location at 1am.
 
I took a Waymo this weekend. Still awesome but pricing is definitely up during busy times. $65 (with 20% off!) to my location 7 miles away at 7pm. $16 home from same location at 1am.

Do you have a sense if that was more or less for a similar level car on Uber with a driver?
 
I took a Waymo this weekend. Still awesome but pricing is definitely up during busy times. $65 (with 20% off!) to my location 7 miles away at 7pm. $16 home from same location at 1am.

Do you have a sense if that was more or less for a similar level car on Uber with a driver?
It's generally a bit more expensive than Uber now. When Waymo first started it was a little cheaper, especially since you do not have to tip. As it has gained popularity the price has gone up.
 
Tesla FSD is a great option to have, and I am consistently increasing my usage of it. At first, I just used it on highways, and I have become much more comfortable letting it handle in city driving. *** I live in a small town in Ohio. I'm not sure how I would feel about downtown Chicago with FSD***.

One thing that needs to change over time is how harshly we want autonomous vehicles (AV) to follow the law. Example, a stop sign when no one else is around, the vehicle comes to a complete stop, "looks" and then goes. That is how you drive with a cop behind you. Human drivers are going to get upset when they think the AV is driving like an extremely elderly person--minus seeing the knuckles and forehead.
 
This has actually taken longer than I expected. It seems like we've been right at the cusp for many years now. How long until I don't need a car in the suburbs?
Ewwww - so you can rent a nasty JonnyCab that has who knows what on it, in it, done in it? 🤮 :poop:

This scares me . Just seems like a tragedy in the making.
Tragedy how?
Glitch in the matrix which allows the truck to get in an accident that may be preventable if it had a driver. Like the self driving cars that plowed into the back of a truck only worse cuz this time the truck will be the rammer. Yul Brynner in Westworld type scenario.
Well sure. But it’s not as if human drivers are anywhere near infallible. There are 100’s of thousands of car crashes every year
No doubt but imagine a scenario were the driverless truck doesn't recognize traffic is stopped for some reason and runs into a car and kills the occupants. The families will likely sue the pants off the truck owner and manufacturer and claim that a human driver may well have prevented said crash as you can't assume a driver would be negligent and careless but the driverless truck just did what it's mindless program told it to do. Sort of like Corporation said above.

Honestly it seems like it will go the other way to me. Robos will be way safer than humans, so only the rich will be able to afford personal vehicles as insurance rates for human driven vehicles will go to the moon.

I don't see the lawsuit issue taking hold. Corporations will have much more sway getting indemnification legislation passed against the wishes of the personal injury lawyer lobby than any group of citizens can (as we see now with the state of PI lawsuits in the US).
 
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One thing that needs to change over time is how harshly we want autonomous vehicles (AV) to follow the law. Example, a stop sign when no one else is around, the vehicle comes to a complete stop, "looks" and then goes. That is how you drive with a cop behind you. Human drivers are going to get upset when they think the AV is driving like an extremely elderly person--minus seeing the knuckles and forehead.
Probably about as much luck as cyclists have had to be able to roll stop signs (Idaho allows this). It's much safer than a full stop, in general, but drivers get irrationally angry with the thought of cyclists treating stop signs as yield signs.
 
This scares me . Just seems like a tragedy in the making.
Tragedy how?
Glitch in the matrix which allows the truck to get in an accident that may be preventable if it had a driver. Like the self driving cars that plowed into the back of a truck only worse cuz this time the truck will be the rammer. Yul Brynner in Westworld type scenario.
Well sure. But it’s not as if human drivers are anywhere near infallible. There are 100’s of thousands of car crashes every year
No doubt but imagine a scenario were the driverless truck doesn't recognize traffic is stopped for some reason and runs into a car and kills the occupants. The families will likely sue the pants off the truck owner and manufacturer and claim that a human driver may well have prevented said crash as you can't assume a driver would be negligent and careless but the driverless truck just did what it's mindless program told it to do. Sort of like Corporation said above.
This is the problem and the only reason that driverless trucks are not already in service nationwide. Over 5,000 people are killed each year in the US in accidents involving semi-trucks. That number will go way way way down once driverless trucks become the norm but the first time one happens involving a driverless truck the media will be all over it inciting a public outcry and certainly the families will sue for massive amounts.
 
One thing that needs to change over time is how harshly we want autonomous vehicles (AV) to follow the law. Example, a stop sign when no one else is around, the vehicle comes to a complete stop, "looks" and then goes. That is how you drive with a cop behind you. Human drivers are going to get upset when they think the AV is driving like an extremely elderly person--minus seeing the knuckles and forehead.
Probably about as much luck as cyclists have had to be able to roll stop signs (Idaho allows this). It's much safer than a full stop, in general, but drivers get irrationally angry with the thought of cyclists treating stop signs as yield signs.
It's not irrational to expect all vehicles whether bikes or cars to follow a consistent set of rules at stop signs. It's never safe for bikes to treat stop signs as yields. Always makes me nervous seeing someone on a bike approaching a stop sign as fast as they do.
 
It's not irrational to expect all vehicles whether bikes or cars to follow a consistent set of rules at stop signs. It's never safe for bikes to treat stop signs as yields. Always makes me nervous seeing someone on a bike approaching a stop sign as fast as they do.

Definitely not true. But this probably isn't the right thread, so I'll leave that and stick to the thread topic.
 
It's not irrational to expect all vehicles whether bikes or cars to follow a consistent set of rules at stop signs. It's never safe for bikes to treat stop signs as yields. Always makes me nervous seeing someone on a bike approaching a stop sign as fast as they do.

Definitely not true. But this probably isn't the right thread, so I'll leave that and stick to the thread topic.
This law seems to state that bikes can do this "when safe" which I assume to mean if there is no one else in the intersection when they arrive at it. Fair enough. This isnt really what I'm talking about though.
 
1:20 in a car is an hour and twenty whether I'm driving or not. I don't buy the premise you aren't driving so 20 to 30 extra minutes won't matter
 

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