Serial Podcast (spoilers starting at post #14) (1 Viewer)

[RUSF18]

far be it from me to tell the best selling podcast in history how to do their job, but I really think they missed an opportunity.

I would have run about 8 episodes, then taken a 3-4 month break.

You have millions of detectives available. Use them to crack the case open, find the best lines of reasoning and continue researching.

It seems like the did the researching, but once the podcast started, there wasn't a lot of new information.

Also, you have to wonder how a guy like Jay is reacting to this podcast. Does he have legal rights to sue? If defamation of character is a real thing, this podcast has a large number of people in the country that think he's a murderer.

Imagine for a moment that you are Jay, that you are telling the truth and are truly innocent (not completely innocent because we know he was an accomplice, but not guilty of the murder) and have been cleared in a court of law.

Then this podcast comes out and this lady clearly is on the side of the convicted murderer and has millions of people listening and believing her.

What would you do?

I'd sue the crap out of the show for defamation of character.

Adnan also seems like he's done with the show too...it has to be a weird feeling going from anonymous jail guy to bigtime jailed celebrity. Millions of people know all about his case. Just really weird.

Only problem is that the show itself, including Koenig, hasn't defamed him. That he was involved in the murder is proven (his testimony and plea deal). That he's lied already is proven (testimony again). You can't claim defamation when it involves the truth.

And your months-long break idea would only exacerbate the problem with both Jay and Adnan that you're describing.

 

[Don Quixote]

I think it goes back to what I think krista said earlier about there not being a lot of nuance to the case. I feel like we got almost all of the interesting information in the first six or so episodes, which were somewhat fast-paced, and it has just gotten a bit stretched out since then, since there's not much else to say.

 

[Righetti]

Few thoughts

The butt dial seemed a bit for when she didn't have an answering machine but like somebody said it could have been a case of somebody actually picking up the phone and listening to a couple of muffled voices. Although I wonder if he had a flip phone or a non flip phone since it would be much harder to butt dial from a flip phone

Also, it could have been Jay making they call with the intention of setting Adnan up

 

[MattFancy]

So I finally got all caught up today.

A few questions I had while listening:

--Why isn't Jay's flip flopping of stories made into a bigger deal during the trial? Seems the defense tried to go there, but I'm not sure why the jury was so quick to believe him? From the 1 juror Sarah talked to, she made it seem like they didn't think Jay would tell the story if he did it. I dunno, Jay just seems really fishy to me.

--How did they not think it was a bigger deal that Jay's lawyer was picked out by the state's prosecution? That seems like a huge no-no to me.

--Why doesn't Adnan really remember anything that happened that day? Was he too high to recall anything? Was he just really high when it happened maybe? That seems strange. If I know I didn't do it, I damn sure would be trying to remember every single detail of what I did that day. Maybe it was hard for him to remember back that far, but damn, at least try and defend yourself.

--For a guy in jail that's supposedly innocent, he seems very calm about the whole thing. Maybe he's resigned to the fact that he's in jail. But that seems weird to me.

--Why didn't the cops every go to the Best Buy where the murder happened? If they did, how did they not notice there wasn't a pay phone there and that Adnan couldn't have used a pay phone that didn't exist?

--How come more people weren't questioned during the trial? Seems like they basically just went with teachers and Jay. Why not more friends of Hae and Adnan?

 

[shader]

So I finally got all caught up today.

A few questions I had while listening:

--Why isn't Jay's flip flopping of stories made into a bigger deal during the trial? Seems the defense tried to go there, but I'm not sure why the jury was so quick to believe him? From the 1 juror Sarah talked to, she made it seem like they didn't think Jay would tell the story if he did it. I dunno, Jay just seems really fishy to me.

--How did they not think it was a bigger deal that Jay's lawyer was picked out by the state's prosecution? That seems like a huge no-no to me.

--Why doesn't Adnan really remember anything that happened that day? Was he too high to recall anything? Was he just really high when it happened maybe? That seems strange. If I know I didn't do it, I damn sure would be trying to remember every single detail of what I did that day. Maybe it was hard for him to remember back that far, but damn, at least try and defend yourself.

--For a guy in jail that's supposedly innocent, he seems very calm about the whole thing. Maybe he's resigned to the fact that he's in jail. But that seems weird to me.

--Why didn't the cops every go to the Best Buy where the murder happened? If they did, how did they not notice there wasn't a pay phone there and that Adnan couldn't have used a pay phone that didn't exist?

--How come more people weren't questioned during the trial? Seems like they basically just went with teachers and Jay. Why not more friends of Hae and Adnan?

He's been in jail a long time. I imagine anyone in jail that long accepts it. His life is now prison.

 

[MattFancy]

So I finally got all caught up today.

A few questions I had while listening:

--Why isn't Jay's flip flopping of stories made into a bigger deal during the trial? Seems the defense tried to go there, but I'm not sure why the jury was so quick to believe him? From the 1 juror Sarah talked to, she made it seem like they didn't think Jay would tell the story if he did it. I dunno, Jay just seems really fishy to me.

--How did they not think it was a bigger deal that Jay's lawyer was picked out by the state's prosecution? That seems like a huge no-no to me.

--Why doesn't Adnan really remember anything that happened that day? Was he too high to recall anything? Was he just really high when it happened maybe? That seems strange. If I know I didn't do it, I damn sure would be trying to remember every single detail of what I did that day. Maybe it was hard for him to remember back that far, but damn, at least try and defend yourself.

--For a guy in jail that's supposedly innocent, he seems very calm about the whole thing. Maybe he's resigned to the fact that he's in jail. But that seems weird to me.

--Why didn't the cops every go to the Best Buy where the murder happened? If they did, how did they not notice there wasn't a pay phone there and that Adnan couldn't have used a pay phone that didn't exist?

--How come more people weren't questioned during the trial? Seems like they basically just went with teachers and Jay. Why not more friends of Hae and Adnan?

He's been in jail a long time. I imagine anyone in jail that long accepts it. His life is now prison.

I mean that does make sense. Just seems if he was telling his side of the story about what happened, there would be a little more anger and such. I think it was Episode 8 where he said he blames himself for everything that has happened. Again, seems strange to blame yourself if you're innocent.

This podcast has done a great job of keeping me guessing. One episdoe, I'm for sure he's innocent. Then I hear another one, and I'm not so sure anymore. Right now, I still don't think he did it or at the very least, wasn't the only one involved. Think Jay was alot more involved than he led on during the trial.

 

[TobiasFunke]

So I finally got all caught up today.

A few questions I had while listening:

--Why isn't Jay's flip flopping of stories made into a bigger deal during the trial? Seems the defense tried to go there, but I'm not sure why the jury was so quick to believe him? From the 1 juror Sarah talked to, she made it seem like they didn't think Jay would tell the story if he did it. I dunno, Jay just seems really fishy to me.

--How did they not think it was a bigger deal that Jay's lawyer was picked out by the state's prosecution? That seems like a huge no-no to me.

--Why doesn't Adnan really remember anything that happened that day? Was he too high to recall anything? Was he just really high when it happened maybe? That seems strange. If I know I didn't do it, I damn sure would be trying to remember every single detail of what I did that day. Maybe it was hard for him to remember back that far, but damn, at least try and defend yourself.

--For a guy in jail that's supposedly innocent, he seems very calm about the whole thing. Maybe he's resigned to the fact that he's in jail. But that seems weird to me.

--Why didn't the cops every go to the Best Buy where the murder happened? If they did, how did they not notice there wasn't a pay phone there and that Adnan couldn't have used a pay phone that didn't exist?

--How come more people weren't questioned during the trial? Seems like they basically just went with teachers and Jay. Why not more friends of Hae and Adnan?

I believe they've dealt with most of these, several in the two most recent podcasts.

Second point- they suggested at one point that they didn't make a bigger deal of the prosecution paying for his lawyer to preserve that for appeal, I think. Plus they seemed to hint that it's hard to make a jury really grasp why that's a big deal.

Third point- people don't remember details about unremarkable days. If you asked me to tell you what I did last Saturday I would have no idea. I'd have look through my Friday emails and Saturday texts and check the sports scores to remind myself of what games I watched just to give you a vague picture of my schedule that day. If anything that suggests innocence to me.

Fourth point- as Shader said, jail is his entire adult life. They've dealt with this extensively I think. especially in the most recent episode.

No idea about your first point or the last two. I think you'd have to go through the trial transcript/video with a fine-toothed comb to sort that out. I do think the lawyer might have blown this one, they kind of got into that in the episode before last.

Unrelated- I think a lot of people are gonna be upset tomorrow when there's no resolution. Gonna be pretty silly. Not sure what they expect. This isn't a fictional show like Lost or The Killing where the storyteller hints or even promises some dramatic resolution. She's been pretty upfront about what she's doing. And the guy is still in jail- if she knew about something exculpatory it would be pretty irresponsible to let him languish there just to create a dramatic finale.

 

[MattFancy]

So I finally got all caught up today.

A few questions I had while listening:

--Why isn't Jay's flip flopping of stories made into a bigger deal during the trial? Seems the defense tried to go there, but I'm not sure why the jury was so quick to believe him? From the 1 juror Sarah talked to, she made it seem like they didn't think Jay would tell the story if he did it. I dunno, Jay just seems really fishy to me.

--How did they not think it was a bigger deal that Jay's lawyer was picked out by the state's prosecution? That seems like a huge no-no to me.

--Why doesn't Adnan really remember anything that happened that day? Was he too high to recall anything? Was he just really high when it happened maybe? That seems strange. If I know I didn't do it, I damn sure would be trying to remember every single detail of what I did that day. Maybe it was hard for him to remember back that far, but damn, at least try and defend yourself.

--For a guy in jail that's supposedly innocent, he seems very calm about the whole thing. Maybe he's resigned to the fact that he's in jail. But that seems weird to me.

--Why didn't the cops every go to the Best Buy where the murder happened? If they did, how did they not notice there wasn't a pay phone there and that Adnan couldn't have used a pay phone that didn't exist?

--How come more people weren't questioned during the trial? Seems like they basically just went with teachers and Jay. Why not more friends of Hae and Adnan?

I believe they've dealt with most of these, several in the two most recent podcasts.

Second point- they suggested at one point that they didn't make a bigger deal of the prosecution paying for his lawyer to preserve that for appeal, I think. Plus they seemed to hint that it's hard to make a jury really grasp why that's a big deal.

Third point- people don't remember details about unremarkable days. If you asked me to tell you what I did last Saturday I would have no idea. I'd have look through my Friday emails and Saturday texts and check the sports scores to remind myself of what games I watched just to give you a vague picture of my schedule that day. If anything that suggests innocence to me.

Fourth point- as Shader said, jail is his entire adult life. They've dealt with this extensively I think. especially in the most recent episode.

No idea about your first point or the last two. I think you'd have to go through the trial transcript/video with a fine-toothed comb to sort that out. I do think the lawyer might have blown this one, they kind of got into that in the episode before last.

Unrelated- I think a lot of people are gonna be upset tomorrow when there's no resolution. Gonna be pretty silly. Not sure what they expect. This isn't a fictional show like Lost or The Killing where the storyteller hints or even promises some dramatic resolution. She's been pretty upfront about what she's doing. And the guy is still in jail- if she knew about something exculpatory it would be pretty irresponsible to let him languish there just to create a dramatic finale.

Agree on the defense blowing this one. Seems pretty easy IMO to raise reasonable doubt when there is zero physical evidence to suggest he did and you're going off 1 person's testimony and that person seems shady as hell.

I see this setting up kinda like True Detective. People had so many crazy theories and it didn't end like people expected. That's how I'm going in tomorrow. Not expecting a resolution, just looking for more of what we've gotten the first 11 episodes.

 

[Righetti]

the fact that he tried to plea twice always bothered me

 

[Northern Voice]

What very little physical evidence there is is linked to Jay, right? Wiping down the shovel and knowing where the car is. There's nothing else.

 

[whoknew]

Just listened to the finale. I know there's been a lot of complaints about the recent episodes, but I thought this one was great. Quite intense. And a satisfying conclusion.

 

[dino259]

Kosterman did a review podcast on grantland.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Just listened to the finale. I know there's been a lot of complaints about the recent episodes, but I thought this one was great. Quite intense. And a satisfying conclusion.

Me too. I would have been fine with her taking Adnan's advice and not taking a side, but I'm glad she did.

I feel the same as I have since about the 3rd or 4th episode- more likely than not that he did it, but nowhere near enough evidence to rise above the reasonable doubt standard. I assumed she'd agree with the latter obviously, but was surprised she came out and disagreed with the former.

I haven't been hanging around the reddit message board or anything- have other people known about the serial killer who get released on January 1 and killed at least one other Korean woman in the area before this morning's podcast or was that news to everyone.

 

[MattFancy]

After listening to the finale, I'm like you Tobias, I can't say he didn't do it, but there's certainly not enough to say that definitively. I really don't understand how a jury found him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There's no way that every juror agreed he did it. I just don't get how they can say they believed everything the state laid out 100%. There's so many holes in this case.

Definitely don't believe the serial killer thing. I came across that theory last night and while it sounds possible, it doesn't explain how Jay would know where the car is and everything else. That's why I can't subscribe to that theory.

Very well done series and can't wait for more in the future.

 

[RUSF18]

After listening to the finale, I'm like you Tobias, I can't say he didn't do it, but there's certainly not enough to say that definitively. I really don't understand how a jury found him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There's no way that every juror agreed he did it. I just don't get how they can say they believed everything the state laid out 100%. There's so many holes in this case.

All it takes is listening to some of the juror interviews that were played on the show. That one woman especially was a moron. She put all her faith in Jay and said he had no reason to lie because saying what he was saying would put him in jail. When Sarah told her his plea deal got him zero time, she sounded completely shocked.

 

[MattFancy]

After listening to the finale, I'm like you Tobias, I can't say he didn't do it, but there's certainly not enough to say that definitively. I really don't understand how a jury found him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There's no way that every juror agreed he did it. I just don't get how they can say they believed everything the state laid out 100%. There's so many holes in this case.

All it takes is listening to some of the juror interviews that were played on the show. That one woman especially was a moron. She put all her faith in Jay and said he had no reason to lie because saying what he was saying would put him in jail. When Sarah told her his plea deal got him zero time, she sounded completely shocked.

Yeah that was really shocking to hear. The juror was for sure Jay was going to jail.

To me, I can definitely see some juror bias as well. Jay was an African American and the jury was majority African American as well. The juror talked about how they all thought Jay was very believable. Even though he was caught with inconsistencies during his testimonies. Yet, the jury still thought he was very beleivable? I don't get it.

There's so many holes and questions in this case that I just don't see how anyone didn't have reasonable doubt for Adnan. IMO, there's just no way with all the evidence that was presented that you can say for sure he did, just like you can't really say for sure he didn't do it. If that's not reasonable doubt, then I don't know what is.

 

[bigmarc27]

So I'm done with the entire thing...

I still think Adnon probably did it -- the entire serial killer angle at the end was an odd Hail Mary especially when she finally mentioned that Jay knew where the car was located. Even though I'm not that Adnon didn't do it, I don't see how a jury convicted. However, I don't know what was and was not said at trial. I see some of you berating the jury, but you heard a cherry-picked version of things with minimal knowledge of what was actually said at trial. Who knows how the picture was actually painted the days they were there in the courtroom.

Anyway, I'm curious if anything ever comes of this. I think this will eventually go by the wayside and 20 years later we get a documentary on Adnon spending his days in jail. I wouldn't be shocked to read an article in a couple of years where he's released from jail either, but it seems unlikely.

Overall grade - B

It was a cool attempt at something different and told a compelling story. Writers always say you come up with an ending first because it's the toughest and then work your way back. Obviously that couldn't be done here, but it was still done in a manner which held interest aside from a couple of filler episodes.

 

[Reginald Cornsilks]

Did anyone get the sense a few times throughout the entire series that Adnan was about to crack and admit it all?

This is completely whacky for me to say but he always talked like someone who did it. The way he'd even structure his sentences or add on to them to cover his ### came up again for me in this episode when he was saying (and I'm paraphrasing)

"I'm the only one who will ever know for sure if I did it [pause]...and of course...you know....the person who did it."

Just a weird sentence. Sounds very OJ Simpson like with his "if I did it, here's how I would have done it..." type stuff.

This wasn't the only example either, throughout the series, where I felt he worded things very poorly and had to lay something over it afterwards to make it sound better. Almost like, he coached himself up to have a certain mind set, got lost in the conversation and forgot his plan and quickly realized he needs to act a certain way and say certain things.

Great final episode. I think Adnan killed Hae. Which is disappointing to realize for me because, if he did, he had to have pre-meditated it as well. I've been through high school break ups and, of course never thought about killing someone, I remember feeling at the time like this person would be the only person I'd ever love or want to be with again and having intense feelings of generally being upset or irrational. I think that's what happened to Adnan here. Also agree with Tobias, that there was not enough to convict him.

 

[shader]

The guy that worked at the porn store with Jay...he said Jay was acting weird and talking about a van that was parked across the street. What day was that? I can't go back and listen now. When was that event in the whole timeline?

 

[shader]

The one thing that she needed to delve into more, if she wanted to cast doubt on Adnan is Jay. Gotta give us some sort of motive for Jay to kill her, or to accuse Adnan. The serial killer junk made no sense and is just annoying because it doesn't fit with the narrative. If a serial killer got Hae, why the heck would Jay make up an elaborate story and get himself convicted of helping bury the body? Not to mention lead the police to the car?

If Jay killed her, she didn't present any likely evidence for why he would have done so.

The other problem I have is Adnan not remembering the events of that day. I suppose being stoned out of your mind might be an excuse...but I don't know man. That's the day the girl he loved went missing. You can't tell me you don't have a memory of that day and try to use the excuse of "just another day". That's a huge day in the life of Adnan. He has to have some clarity.

In 1999, why would you NOT convict him? You had Jay's testimony and cellphone records. You had motive. I just don't get it. I think the fact that many people heard Adnan's voice, and liked him are the reason he has supporters. It just shows you the power of personality. He's probably just an extremely devious guy with a gift for making people really like him, but with a major dark side.

 

[Reginald Cornsilks]

The guy that worked at the porn store with Jay...he said Jay was acting weird and talking about a van that was parked across the street. What day was that? I can't go back and listen now. When was that event in the whole timeline?

Had to be AFTER the murder because we know Jay didn't start working there until after the day Hae was killed

 

[TobiasFunke]

Did anyone get the sense a few times throughout the entire series that Adnan was about to crack and admit it all?

This is completely whacky for me to say but he always talked like someone who did it. The way he'd even structure his sentences or add on to them to cover his ### came up again for me in this episode when he was saying (and I'm paraphrasing)

"I'm the only one who will ever know for sure if I did it [pause]...and of course...you know....the person who did it."

Just a weird sentence. Sounds very OJ Simpson like with his "if I did it, here's how I would have done it..." type stuff.

This wasn't the only example either, throughout the series, where I felt he worded things very poorly and had to lay something over it afterwards to make it sound better. Almost like, he coached himself up to have a certain mind set, got lost in the conversation and forgot his plan and quickly realized he needs to act a certain way and say certain things.

Great final episode. I think Adnan killed Hae. Which is disappointing to realize for me because, if he did, he had to have pre-meditated it as well. I've been through high school break ups and, of course never thought about killing someone, I remember feeling at the time like this person would be the only person I'd ever love or want to be with again and having intense feelings of generally being upset or irrational. I think that's what happened to Adnan here. Also agree with Tobias, that there was not enough to convict him.

That jumped out at me too, had the same thought. Very weird. When he started the sentence I assumed he was saying that only Hae and the killer truly know what happened, when he referred to himself instead I had a spit-take type reaction.

Another thing I liked in the final episode was the renewed talk of motive and the possibility that Adnan didn't truly confront the fact that the relationship was over until he returned to school from winter break in January. I couldn't wrap my head around any kind of motive at all until they offered up that very plausible theory.

 

[RUSF18]

Did anyone get the sense a few times throughout the entire series that Adnan was about to crack and admit it all?

This is completely whacky for me to say but he always talked like someone who did it. The way he'd even structure his sentences or add on to them to cover his ### came up again for me in this episode when he was saying (and I'm paraphrasing)

"I'm the only one who will ever know for sure if I did it [pause]...and of course...you know....the person who did it."

Just a weird sentence. Sounds very OJ Simpson like with his "if I did it, here's how I would have done it..." type stuff.

This wasn't the only example either, throughout the series, where I felt he worded things very poorly and had to lay something over it afterwards to make it sound better. Almost like, he coached himself up to have a certain mind set, got lost in the conversation and forgot his plan and quickly realized he needs to act a certain way and say certain things.

Great final episode. I think Adnan killed Hae. Which is disappointing to realize for me because, if he did, he had to have pre-meditated it as well. I've been through high school break ups and, of course never thought about killing someone, I remember feeling at the time like this person would be the only person I'd ever love or want to be with again and having intense feelings of generally being upset or irrational. I think that's what happened to Adnan here. Also agree with Tobias, that there was not enough to convict him.

That jumped out at me too, had the same thought. Very weird. When he started the sentence I assumed he was saying that only Hae and the killer truly know what happened, when he referred to himself instead I had a spit-take type reaction.

Another thing I liked in the final episode was the renewed talk of motive and the possibility that Adnan didn't truly confront the fact that the relationship was over until he returned to school from winter break in January. I couldn't wrap my head around any kind of motive at all until they offered up that very plausible theory.

Haven't re-listened but I thought I remembered him prefacing that with something along the lines of "convincing you I am 100% innocent", so he was already involving himself in the discussion, and I don't think the quote included "did it". I wouldn't be surprised if I'm completely off though. I'm sure there's a transcript somewhere.

 

[Reginald Cornsilks]

Did anyone get the sense a few times throughout the entire series that Adnan was about to crack and admit it all?

This is completely whacky for me to say but he always talked like someone who did it. The way he'd even structure his sentences or add on to them to cover his ### came up again for me in this episode when he was saying (and I'm paraphrasing)

"I'm the only one who will ever know for sure if I did it [pause]...and of course...you know....the person who did it."

Just a weird sentence. Sounds very OJ Simpson like with his "if I did it, here's how I would have done it..." type stuff.

This wasn't the only example either, throughout the series, where I felt he worded things very poorly and had to lay something over it afterwards to make it sound better. Almost like, he coached himself up to have a certain mind set, got lost in the conversation and forgot his plan and quickly realized he needs to act a certain way and say certain things.

Great final episode. I think Adnan killed Hae. Which is disappointing to realize for me because, if he did, he had to have pre-meditated it as well. I've been through high school break ups and, of course never thought about killing someone, I remember feeling at the time like this person would be the only person I'd ever love or want to be with again and having intense feelings of generally being upset or irrational. I think that's what happened to Adnan here. Also agree with Tobias, that there was not enough to convict him.

That jumped out at me too, had the same thought. Very weird. When he started the sentence I assumed he was saying that only Hae and the killer truly know what happened, when he referred to himself instead I had a spit-take type reaction.

Another thing I liked in the final episode was the renewed talk of motive and the possibility that Adnan didn't truly confront the fact that the relationship was over until he returned to school from winter break in January. I couldn't wrap my head around any kind of motive at all until they offered up that very plausible theory.

Haven't re-listened but I thought I remembered him prefacing that with something along the lines of "convincing you I am 100% innocent", so he was already involving himself in the discussion, and I don't think the quote included "did it". I wouldn't be surprised if I'm completely off though. I'm sure there's a transcript somewhere.

It was quizzical enough that I remember it. Perhaps when I have some time, I'll go listen through the whole podcast again, but this is not the only time I thought he just acted "odd" or like he was about to spill the beans completely.

Just like TF, it jumped out at me and I cautioned you that I was paraphrasing, but it was poignant for me, and it's not the first time in the series.

 

[RUSF18]

edit: The following post was from an hour or so ago but never went through on my phone. Poor service on the ####ter apparently.

Just listened to the finale. I know there's been a lot of complaints about the recent episodes, but I thought this one was great. Quite intense. And a satisfying conclusion.

Me too. I would have been fine with her taking Adnan's advice and not taking a side, but I'm glad she did.

I feel the same as I have since about the 3rd or 4th episode- more likely than not that he did it, but nowhere near enough evidence to rise above the reasonable doubt standard. I assumed she'd agree with the latter obviously, but was surprised she came out and disagreed with the former.
I haven't been hanging around the reddit message board or anything- have other people known about the serial killer who get released on January 1 and killed at least one other Korean woman in the area before this morning's podcast or was that news to everyone.

I feel the same on the case as a whole. A very good finale in presenting some interesting things to make you think. I might be confusing the exact details, but one interesting piece to me was the whole discussion of Jay calling the girl's house phone with the cell phone at a time they both state they were in the house (and both say Jay had the phone on him). Weird on its own, but they also said that call pinged a tower that wasn't the one closest to the house. Think this was the whole "utility of the lie" discussion.

The serial killer stuff had been known on reddit for some time. As did one other case that I'm surprised wasn't at least mentioned...that another girl from the same high school got strangled (I believe) a year earlier.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Did anyone get the sense a few times throughout the entire series that Adnan was about to crack and admit it all?

This is completely whacky for me to say but he always talked like someone who did it. The way he'd even structure his sentences or add on to them to cover his ### came up again for me in this episode when he was saying (and I'm paraphrasing)

"I'm the only one who will ever know for sure if I did it [pause]...and of course...you know....the person who did it."

Just a weird sentence. Sounds very OJ Simpson like with his "if I did it, here's how I would have done it..." type stuff.

This wasn't the only example either, throughout the series, where I felt he worded things very poorly and had to lay something over it afterwards to make it sound better. Almost like, he coached himself up to have a certain mind set, got lost in the conversation and forgot his plan and quickly realized he needs to act a certain way and say certain things.

Great final episode. I think Adnan killed Hae. Which is disappointing to realize for me because, if he did, he had to have pre-meditated it as well. I've been through high school break ups and, of course never thought about killing someone, I remember feeling at the time like this person would be the only person I'd ever love or want to be with again and having intense feelings of generally being upset or irrational. I think that's what happened to Adnan here. Also agree with Tobias, that there was not enough to convict him.

That jumped out at me too, had the same thought. Very weird. When he started the sentence I assumed he was saying that only Hae and the killer truly know what happened, when he referred to himself instead I had a spit-take type reaction.

Another thing I liked in the final episode was the renewed talk of motive and the possibility that Adnan didn't truly confront the fact that the relationship was over until he returned to school from winter break in January. I couldn't wrap my head around any kind of motive at all until they offered up that very plausible theory.

Haven't re-listened but I thought I remembered him prefacing that with something along the lines of "convincing you I am 100% innocent", so he was already involving himself in the discussion, and I don't think the quote included "did it". I wouldn't be surprised if I'm completely off though. I'm sure there's a transcript somewhere.

Yup, you're right- I think it was something along the lines of "the only person who knows 100% for sure what happened ..." At which point I expected him to say "... is dead" or "... is the killler."

 

[RUSF18]

Did anyone get the sense a few times throughout the entire series that Adnan was about to crack and admit it all?

This is completely whacky for me to say but he always talked like someone who did it. The way he'd even structure his sentences or add on to them to cover his ### came up again for me in this episode when he was saying (and I'm paraphrasing)

"I'm the only one who will ever know for sure if I did it [pause]...and of course...you know....the person who did it."

Just a weird sentence. Sounds very OJ Simpson like with his "if I did it, here's how I would have done it..." type stuff.

This wasn't the only example either, throughout the series, where I felt he worded things very poorly and had to lay something over it afterwards to make it sound better. Almost like, he coached himself up to have a certain mind set, got lost in the conversation and forgot his plan and quickly realized he needs to act a certain way and say certain things.

Great final episode. I think Adnan killed Hae. Which is disappointing to realize for me because, if he did, he had to have pre-meditated it as well. I've been through high school break ups and, of course never thought about killing someone, I remember feeling at the time like this person would be the only person I'd ever love or want to be with again and having intense feelings of generally being upset or irrational. I think that's what happened to Adnan here. Also agree with Tobias, that there was not enough to convict him.

That jumped out at me too, had the same thought. Very weird. When he started the sentence I assumed he was saying that only Hae and the killer truly know what happened, when he referred to himself instead I had a spit-take type reaction.

Another thing I liked in the final episode was the renewed talk of motive and the possibility that Adnan didn't truly confront the fact that the relationship was over until he returned to school from winter break in January. I couldn't wrap my head around any kind of motive at all until they offered up that very plausible theory.

Haven't re-listened but I thought I remembered him prefacing that with something along the lines of "convincing you I am 100% innocent", so he was already involving himself in the discussion, and I don't think the quote included "did it". I wouldn't be surprised if I'm completely off though. I'm sure there's a transcript somewhere.

It was quizzical enough that I remember it. Perhaps when I have some time, I'll go listen through the whole podcast again, but this is not the only time I thought he just acted "odd" or like he was about to spill the beans completely.

Just like TF, it jumped out at me and I cautioned you that I was paraphrasing, but it was poignant for me, and it's not the first time in the series.

Yeah sorry I didn't mean to imply you were intentionally misquoting him or something, as it jumped out at me too when I first heard it but I had a differen take.

On another site I had the same comment as Tobias about Sarah and her producers re-introducing the motive discussion. Thought that was a really good approach especially considering where Sarah's bias laid.

 

[Reginald Cornsilks]

Did anyone get the sense a few times throughout the entire series that Adnan was about to crack and admit it all?

This is completely whacky for me to say but he always talked like someone who did it. The way he'd even structure his sentences or add on to them to cover his ### came up again for me in this episode when he was saying (and I'm paraphrasing)

"I'm the only one who will ever know for sure if I did it [pause]...and of course...you know....the person who did it."

Just a weird sentence. Sounds very OJ Simpson like with his "if I did it, here's how I would have done it..." type stuff.

This wasn't the only example either, throughout the series, where I felt he worded things very poorly and had to lay something over it afterwards to make it sound better. Almost like, he coached himself up to have a certain mind set, got lost in the conversation and forgot his plan and quickly realized he needs to act a certain way and say certain things.

Great final episode. I think Adnan killed Hae. Which is disappointing to realize for me because, if he did, he had to have pre-meditated it as well. I've been through high school break ups and, of course never thought about killing someone, I remember feeling at the time like this person would be the only person I'd ever love or want to be with again and having intense feelings of generally being upset or irrational. I think that's what happened to Adnan here. Also agree with Tobias, that there was not enough to convict him.

That jumped out at me too, had the same thought. Very weird. When he started the sentence I assumed he was saying that only Hae and the killer truly know what happened, when he referred to himself instead I had a spit-take type reaction.

Another thing I liked in the final episode was the renewed talk of motive and the possibility that Adnan didn't truly confront the fact that the relationship was over until he returned to school from winter break in January. I couldn't wrap my head around any kind of motive at all until they offered up that very plausible theory.

Haven't re-listened but I thought I remembered him prefacing that with something along the lines of "convincing you I am 100% innocent", so he was already involving himself in the discussion, and I don't think the quote included "did it". I wouldn't be surprised if I'm completely off though. I'm sure there's a transcript somewhere.

It was quizzical enough that I remember it. Perhaps when I have some time, I'll go listen through the whole podcast again, but this is not the only time I thought he just acted "odd" or like he was about to spill the beans completely.

Just like TF, it jumped out at me and I cautioned you that I was paraphrasing, but it was poignant for me, and it's not the first time in the series.

Yeah sorry I didn't mean to imply you were intentionally misquoting him or something, as it jumped out at me too when I first heard it but I had a differen take.

On another site I had the same comment as Tobias about Sarah and her producers re-introducing the motive discussion. Thought that was a really good approach especially considering where Sarah's bias laid.

No problem good bud. Just rattling off my thoughts a bit too quickly maybe and I appreciate the discussion.

I am going to go back and try to find the other instance where I felt like Adnan was about to admit he murdered Hae or incriminate himself. It was 3 or 4 episodes ago and there was a similar "spit take" reaction from me. He was talking like a guy telling us he was innocent, as opposed to a guy who was actually innocent.

Which sucks...I kind of grew to like him or, at the very least, understand/sympathize with him. I just try to put myself in high school through his eyes. I had a girlfriend from 8th grade through Junior year of high school. When we broke up senior year, I remember having insane irrational thoughts about never finding another girl, never getting married (unless it was to her), and not being able to live or function without her. I think it can drive a young man's brain wild. You gain perspective later in life when you've been through 3 of these instances. I also remember specifically, hiding these spazz out moments from everyone else (teachers, friends, parents). I believe Adnan couldn't get control of the perspective and that's what ultimately led to such a heinous situation.

 

[bigmarc27]

As did one other case that I'm surprised wasn't at least mentioned...that another girl from the same high school got strangled (I believe) a year earlier.

Another girl from the same HS as strangled a year earlier? How was this never mentioned?

I looked on the subreddit a little bit, but it just seemed like a bunch of people who were 1000% sure Adnon was innocent without any real reasoning behind it. Someone they had becomes fanboys of the entire thing without any real knowledge.

 

[MattFancy]

I did read an article yesterday, believe it was from Businessweek, about possible theories. There was one about a serial killer connection, but I can't remember the guys name. He was convicted of strangling a girl to death and raping her and dumping her in a park in NE Baltimore. The strange thing about that one was that the guy lived on Hae's path to the daycare, so he certainly would have been able to see her and what not. I believe that guy was later arrested in 2002.

 

[bigmarc27]

This is incredible by the way... Lots of nice touches like the lady saying she uses mail chimp.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/6ab2d45a77/the-last-episode-of-serial

 

[RUSF18]

As did one other case that I'm surprised wasn't at least mentioned...that another girl from the same high school got strangled (I believe) a year earlier.

Another girl from the same HS as strangled a year earlier? How was this never mentioned?

I looked on the subreddit a little bit, but it just seemed like a bunch of people who were 1000% sure Adnon was innocent without any real reasoning behind it. Someone they had becomes fanboys of the entire thing without any real knowledge.

Roy Davis is the name of the guy convicted of strangling the woman. He's actually in the same jail as Adnan.

 

[Jene Bramel]

This is incredible by the way... Lots of nice touches like the lady saying she uses mail chimp.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/6ab2d45a77/the-last-episode-of-serial

 

[fasteddie_21]

Did anyone get the sense a few times throughout the entire series that Adnan was about to crack and admit it all?

This is completely whacky for me to say but he always talked like someone who did it. The way he'd even structure his sentences or add on to them to cover his ### came up again for me in this episode when he was saying (and I'm paraphrasing)

"I'm the only one who will ever know for sure if I did it [pause]...and of course...you know....the person who did it."

Just a weird sentence. Sounds very OJ Simpson like with his "if I did it, here's how I would have done it..." type stuff.

This wasn't the only example either, throughout the series, where I felt he worded things very poorly and had to lay something over it afterwards to make it sound better. Almost like, he coached himself up to have a certain mind set, got lost in the conversation and forgot his plan and quickly realized he needs to act a certain way and say certain things.

Great final episode. I think Adnan killed Hae. Which is disappointing to realize for me because, if he did, he had to have pre-meditated it as well. I've been through high school break ups and, of course never thought about killing someone, I remember feeling at the time like this person would be the only person I'd ever love or want to be with again and having intense feelings of generally being upset or irrational. I think that's what happened to Adnan here. Also agree with Tobias, that there was not enough to convict him.

I caught the same thing and think he very well may have killed Hae, but IMO, no way you can convict based on evidence.

 

[RUSF18]

I have to admit I wasn't following what Dierdre of the Innocence Project meant when she said "big picture, big picture" as Sarah asked how the serial killer theory could be plausible given what else we know (mainly, how he would tie to Jay). I figured it had something to do with "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" but more people seem to think they know the DNA won't match the serial killer but they needed to have something new to go in order to get the testing done at this point.

 

[Righetti]

If there had been some big revelation it would have leaked.

I like the take of the one producer..Adnan would have to have been really unlucky if he truthfully had nothing to do with it. There is definitely reasonable doubt but I think the chances of him having been involved on at least some level seems likely

If it were really that serial strangler then the only explanation would have been that Jay fabricated the entire thing and had been in all these random places with butt dials and one of them was at that park where they found the body because the phone was pinged there but think that is pretty unlikely.

But at the end of the day she couldn't really throw a final judgement out there in any responsible way.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Thoughts after listening to it all.

The defense case was poor. Honestly if I was on that jury I might have convicted him based on the defense attorney's voice alone. (I actually am only half-kidding here - I can totally see her style not helping in this case).

With better defense, I think that he could have been possibly found not guilty. There seems to be enough reasonable doubt there. Part of that comes from the standpoint that the police seemed to leave a lot of things untested. I think that the overall case presented seemed weak. I think the prosecution relied too much on that very precise timeline - I also think it's why Adnan focused on it in his conversation with the show host. There's a presumption that 2:36 was the death time based on Jay's story and cell phone records. Jay might have an incentive to move that time line up to 2:36 if he's more involved than he let on.

Having said that if you had an OJ-like scenario where the family proceeded with a civil trial, I think that Adnan being found responsible (with the lower burden of proof of a civil trial) as the most likely case.

I think Jay's involvement is bigger. Whether or not Adnan was able to perhaps bully Jay into helping him or if Jay was a more willing accomplice at the word go, the story make a lot more sense as a plot ahead of time. Jay wants to cover his further involvement and based on the way things break down,Adnan has no way to pin it just on Jay, even if Jay was the only one knew where the car ended up - for Adnan to contradict Jay's story is still really something that will end up implicating himself. "Not Knowing" being vague is really the only option he has for defense.

To believe the Serial Killer or Mr. Streaker was involved is to believe that Adnan stumbled upon Hae's car randomly and also is to believe that Jay had some bizarre need to pin Adnan with a murder. Those narratives are just so weak.

-QG

 

[GDogg]

Did anyone get the sense a few times throughout the entire series that Adnan was about to crack and admit it all?

This is completely whacky for me to say but he always talked like someone who did it. The way he'd even structure his sentences or add on to them to cover his ### came up again for me in this episode when he was saying (and I'm paraphrasing)

"I'm the only one who will ever know for sure if I did it [pause]...and of course...you know....the person who did it."

Just a weird sentence. Sounds very OJ Simpson like with his "if I did it, here's how I would have done it..." type stuff.

This wasn't the only example either, throughout the series, where I felt he worded things very poorly and had to lay something over it afterwards to make it sound better. Almost like, he coached himself up to have a certain mind set, got lost in the conversation and forgot his plan and quickly realized he needs to act a certain way and say certain things.

Great final episode. I think Adnan killed Hae. Which is disappointing to realize for me because, if he did, he had to have pre-meditated it as well. I've been through high school break ups and, of course never thought about killing someone, I remember feeling at the time like this person would be the only person I'd ever love or want to be with again and having intense feelings of generally being upset or irrational. I think that's what happened to Adnan here. Also agree with Tobias, that there was not enough to convict him.

I didn't get that at all.

He was talking about the podcast looking at whether he's innocent or not and whether Koenig had an ending. Here's the full quote:

"I was just thinking the other day...I'm pretty sure she probably has people telling her, like, look, you know, you know, this you know, this case, look, he's probably guilty. You're going crazy trying to find out if he's innocent, which you're not gonna find, cuz he's guilty. I mean, I don't think you'll ever have a 100% or, you know what I'm saying, any type of certainty about it. The only person in the whole world who can have that is me and, I mean, for what it's worth, whoever did it. You know, you'll never have that. I, I don't think you will."

Putting the bolded together, he's saying he and whoever did it are the only ones in the world who can have 100% certainty regarding his innocence. And, he's probably right.

 

[EYLive]

I just finished ep. 1. Very intriguing. How many weeks will the whole series be? I may want to wait a bit so I can binge during a roadtrip.

 

[GDogg]

I just finished ep. 1. Very intriguing. How many weeks will the whole series be? I may want to wait a bit so I can binge during a roadtrip.

The season is now over. The season is 12 episodes. Most of the episodes are about 40-50 minutes.

 

[EYLive]

I just finished ep. 1. Very intriguing. How many weeks will the whole series be? I may want to wait a bit so I can binge during a roadtrip.

The season is now over. The season is 12 episodes. Most of the episodes are about 40-50 minutes.

Cool. I just installed a podcast player, is there a way to download all the episode files in case I lose reception out in the boonies?

 

[Abraham]

He did it.

And he was convicted via due process.

So that is that.

 

[RUSF18]

He did it.

And he was convicted via due process.

So that is that.

It's gonna be so nuts if one day, someone is released from prison after being wrongly convicted.

I mean...can you imagine?!

 

[Abraham]

He did it.

And he was convicted via due process.

So that is that.

It's gonna be so nuts if one day, someone is released from prison after being wrongly convicted.I mean...can you imagine?!

Thing is, the entire judicial system is based on due process. He received that. It's entertaining to imagine that he must not be guilty and csi law and order oh my god! But it was a jury of 12 people who said "guilty". We have somehow entered a phas where sensationalism implicitly says "the cops had an agenda" without acknowledgement that the agenda is to find the guilty party.

He did it. You know how I am sure? Because 12 people that aren't ######ed (literal) say so. He had due process and a trial and that's how this country works. Sorry if that isn't s tidy ending for the podcast.

 

[GDogg]

He did it.

And he was convicted via due process.

So that is that.

It's gonna be so nuts if one day, someone is released from prison after being wrongly convicted.I mean...can you imagine?!

Thing is, the entire judicial system is based on due process. He received that. It's entertaining to imagine that he must not be guilty and csi law and order oh my god! But it was a jury of 12 people who said "guilty". We have somehow entered a phas where sensationalism implicitly says "the cops had an agenda" without acknowledgement that the agenda is to find the guilty party.

He did it. You know how I am sure? Because 12 people that aren't ######ed (literal) say so. He had due process and a trial and that's how this country works. Sorry if that isn't s tidy ending for the podcast.

Not always. Look up Rafael Perez and the LAPD Rampart Division. Also, wasn't one of the persons who were interviewed a former cop? And, as I recall, he said that their objective is to build the strongest case they can for prosecution.

Juries sometimes get it wrong. I'm surprised you have never heard that.

 

[krista4]

The "he did it, because he was convicted" argument is odd.

I think he is guilty, but I bailed about halfway through. I realize, based on its immense popularity, that I'm apparently the only person in the world who didn't find the series compelling. Kind of want to listen to the rest just so I can participate fully in this thread, which I find more interesting than the podcast was.

 

[QuizGuy66]

The "he did it, because he was convicted" argument is odd.

I think he is guilty, but I bailed about halfway through. I realize, based on its immense popularity, that I'm apparently the only person in the world who didn't find the series compelling. Kind of want to listen to the rest just so I can participate fully in this thread, which I find more interesting than the podcast was.

Serial Season 2: The FFA

-QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

Obv the FFA Serial would be about Blue Onion

-QG

 

[krista4]

The "he did it, because he was convicted" argument is odd.

I think he is guilty, but I bailed about halfway through. I realize, based on its immense popularity, that I'm apparently the only person in the world who didn't find the series compelling. Kind of want to listen to the rest just so I can participate fully in this thread, which I find more interesting than the podcast was.

Serial Season 2: The FFA

-QG

 

[RUSF18]

He did it.

And he was convicted via due process.

So that is that.

It's gonna be so nuts if one day, someone is released from prison after being wrongly convicted.I mean...can you imagine?!

Thing is, the entire judicial system is based on due process. He received that. It's entertaining to imagine that he must not be guilty and csi law and order oh my god! But it was a jury of 12 people who said "guilty". We have somehow entered a phas where sensationalism implicitly says "the cops had an agenda" without acknowledgement that the agenda is to find the guilty party. He did it. You know how I am sure? Because 12 people that aren't ######ed (literal) say so. He had due process and a trial and that's how this country works. Sorry if that isn't s tidy ending for the podcast.

If you actually listened to the jurors' reasoning, you might disagree with that statement of yours. Or you could just keep trolling.