Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
I can't read the thread because I just discovered this today but I'm hooked after just one episode. So this is my black dot and a bump.
How many episodes have you heard? Because I think they shift the possibility of innocence from one to the next quite well.I am almost certain that the outcome is not going to be concrete. It seems that it is just going to be setting up an ambiguous ending.
Having said that, the way she presents the info it would make you think Adnan is innocent but I just don't know. My biggest question is how people knew where the actual car was.
My guess is Jay is more involved than presented. Whether he fully committed the crime and was able to blame it on Adnan or maybe more likely that Adnan and Jay were closer than we are told and they are both involved.
I've listened to them all. It just seems that people want Adnan to be innocent. It's probably true that based on what we have been told there was likely reasonable doubt as to his guilt, if he is even guilty at all but I just don't buy him being completely innocent.How many episodes have you heard? Because I think they shift the possibility of innocence from one to the next quite well.I am almost certain that the outcome is not going to be concrete. It seems that it is just going to be setting up an ambiguous ending.
Having said that, the way she presents the info it would make you think Adnan is innocent but I just don't know. My biggest question is how people knew where the actual car was.
My guess is Jay is more involved than presented. Whether he fully committed the crime and was able to blame it on Adnan or maybe more likely that Adnan and Jay were closer than we are told and they are both involved.
I'm more certain if it than ever.Adnan did it
Agreed... Also I mean we have to think of the people in this story as kids. Everyone was what, 17-19 years old? It's very unlikely at that age the people in this story were planning or involved in some vast cover up or conspiracy. The simplest version of the story is probably the truest version. Adnan did it, nothing else makes much sense unless Jay is a criminal mastermind.Heard about this a few weeks ago, downloaded on Tuesday and got caught up today. Thank you temporarily horrible commute.
I don't want to believe he did it, and I agree Jay seemed like a likely suspect from the second he was introduced (my first thought was that he was also sleeping with Hae), but there's just too much else that wouldn't make sense if Adnan was innocent.
a lot of discussion outside the podcast about the case on reddit too.There are blog posts on the site that add more detail for sure. Like the best buy maps.
I got pointed to this as well. The one posted after seems like a really big point that I already saw reddit commentators say they were surprised it didn't get mentioned to start this episode since there were "updates". I'll put it in tags just in case people don't want to read anything that hasn't been addressed in the series:There are blog posts on the site that add more detail for sure. Like the best buy maps.
Recently we looked at the weather on Jan. 13, 1999 – the day Hae Min Lee went missing. In Episode 1, Asia McClain, Adnan’s potential alibi witness, tells Sarah she specifically remembers seeing Adnan after school on Jan. 13 at the Woodlawn Public Library. She says she remembers that day because of the snow. It was possibly “the first snow of the year” and she remembers getting snowed in at her boyfriend’s house that night. She also thinks that school was cancelled the next two days.
So we were curious about when the weather got bad that day. Was it snowing that night in Leakin Park? How about when Jay and Adnan were driving around Baltimore County, from school to "Cathy’s" and then to Jay’s house and wherever else?
We looked up the weather for Wednesday, Jan. 13 and Thursday, Jan. 14, 1999. The Baltimore area certainly got hit by a big ice storm beginning in the early morning of Jan. 14. The storm left the area without power for a few days and closed Baltimore County schools on both Jan. 14 and Jan. 15.
But going by the hourly (and sometimes more often than hourly) observed weather reports, there was no significant ice, rain or snow on Jan. 13. A light, freezing rain started falling around 4:30 a.m. on the morning of Jan. 14 and continued for the rest of the day.
But no snow.
So it seems unlikely Asia would have been stuck at her boyfriend’s house on the evening of Jan. 13, because the ice storm didn’t start until 4:30 on the morning of Jan. 14.
Was Asia mistaken about seeing Adnan in the library on Jan. 13? Could it have been a different day? Asia says she thought it was “the first snow of the year.” The Baltimore weather reports for January of 1999 tell us that the first snow of the year was a week earlier – on Friday, Jan. 8. Snow began falling on Jan. 8 around 4:00 in the morning and then fell consistently for the rest of the day. The National Weather Service reported four inches of snow on the ground by the end of the day.
So we wondered if maybe this was the day Asia actually saw Adnan in the library.
But here’s the thing: There was no school on Jan. 8. In a Baltimore Sun article from Jan. 9, Baltimore County Schools spokesman Charles Herndon is quoted as saying, "Not only was there the snow in the morning, but we were particularly worried about later in the afternoon with more hazardous conditions in freezing rain and sleet." So neither Asia nor Adnan would have been at school on Friday, Jan. 8 and, presumably, they wouldn’t have been at the library – the library that is essentially on the campus of Woodlawn High School – that afternoon either.
Considering that in just one week there were three school days cancelled due to weather, it seems possible Asia conflated these two weather events. But if her memory of talking to Adnan in the library is specifically tied to snow, then it’s unlikely that the day she is remembering is Jan. 13
What specifically caused you to change your mind?Just got caught up on this last night. I was leaning towards he didn't do it previously - but the last episode (What's the deal with Jay?) swung me to the he did it side.
I guess it started the episode before where the neighbor boy told some girl who told her father that they saw a dead body. And she thought the kid's name was Adnan or something.What specifically caused you to change your mind?Just got caught up on this last night. I was leaning towards he didn't do it previously - but the last episode (What's the deal with Jay?) swung me to the he did it side.
He could lie about Adnan's involvement to minimize his own culpability.The thing I can't figure out, though, is if it wasn't Adnan - why would Jay lie about it?What specifically caused you to change your mind?Just got caught up on this last night. I was leaning towards he didn't do it previously - but the last episode (What's the deal with Jay?) swung me to the he did it side.
You think Adnan didn't do it and you are pretty sure Jay didn't as well. How do you explain Jay knowing where Hae's car was located and taking police to it?Near zero chance Adnan did it (and I'm not just saying that because Ab thinks he did). I doubt Jay did it either, but the way the evidence/lack of evidence presents-phone calls (not tower pings, that info is useless and actually does not support Jay's stories either), forensics on Adnans clothing, boots, etc.-Jay has more questions brought up about his own actions than he answers with his ever-changing testimony. Many possible answers for that but I will go with the police coaching him down a preconceived path based on the time-honored "ex-boyfriend did it" theory. Ritz likely got away with another miserable job of detecting and, quite possibly, corruption.
Adnan Musuf Syed was convicted based on the testimony of a lying criminal and a plea deal, with a little cultural stereotyping thrown in for good measure.
I can think of three ways, off the top of my head. I gave you a clue as to what, if Jay didn't do it, I think most likely happened.* I don't want to go into details in case some are remaining pure by not visiting the subreddit dedicated to the show or following any of the many blogs and metacasts. If you've only listened to all the episodes of Serial it should be pretty clear why Jay's story was ever-changing. Or at least that is the main question you should be asking...You think Adnan didn't do it and you are pretty sure Jay didn't as well. How do you explain Jay knowing where Hae's car was located and taking police to it?Near zero chance Adnan did it (and I'm not just saying that because Ab thinks he did). I doubt Jay did it either, but the way the evidence/lack of evidence presents-phone calls (not tower pings, that info is useless and actually does not support Jay's stories either), forensics on Adnans clothing, boots, etc.-Jay has more questions brought up about his own actions than he answers with his ever-changing testimony. Many possible answers for that but I will go with the police coaching him down a preconceived path based on the time-honored "ex-boyfriend did it" theory. Ritz likely got away with another miserable job of detecting and, quite possibly, corruption.
Adnan Musuf Syed was convicted based on the testimony of a lying criminal and a plea deal, with a little cultural stereotyping thrown in for good measure.
And imagine if said friend killed someone!Being scared that someone you know is capable of mirder is a pretty good reason to change your story.
Agree 100%.Losing a lot of steam for me (the podcast itself).
Today was, IMO, mundane and boring. In fact, other than last weeks talk about his attorney, the last 3 or 4 episodes have lost a lot of the appeal that episodes 1-6 had for me.
That's because it isn't a Law and Order episode. I don't mean that rude, just that the innerwebs seem to think there will be an arc and a climax when the takeaway is likely to be (1) the evidence still looks shakey but (2) he DID have a chance to go through the process and defend himself and he was convicted. /podcast.Just finished this week's. Snoozer, agreed.
Not rude at all, but people like Law & Order because of what it is. This isn't that, obviously, and needs to be enjoyed in a different way.That's because it isn't a Law and Order episode. I don't mean that rude, just that the innerwebs seem to think there will be an arc and a climax when the takeaway is likely to be (1) the evidence still looks shakey but (2) he DID have a chance to go through the process and defend himself and he was convicted. /podcast.Just finished this week's. Snoozer, agreed.
I'm fairly certain that if there was a piece of new evidence, much less a piece of exculpatory evidence, it would be all over the news (or Reddit) by now. So I think in the end it will end with a whimper instead of a bang - with Adnan in jail.Not rude at all, but people like Law & Order because of what it is. This isn't that, obviously, and needs to be enjoyed in a different way.That's because it isn't a Law and Order episode. I don't mean that rude, just that the innerwebs seem to think there will be an arc and a climax when the takeaway is likely to be (1) the evidence still looks shakey but (2) he DID have a chance to go through the process and defend himself and he was convicted. /podcast.Just finished this week's. Snoozer, agreed.
I didn't think in a 40 minute episode, spending 30 minutes discussing him stealing 20 dollars from a church collection plate as a young kid really revealed anything about him that was shocking, interesting or important. The conclusion equivalent for me was, a kid may have stolen 2 candy bars from the convenience store, or he may have stolen 40 over the course of his childhood.
Or....Syed may be a sociopath, or he may not be. Syed may have been in a fugue state when killing Hae, but he might not have.
I didn't hate it. It was just the weakest of the series and hardly kept my interest.
I agree with this. I didn't think this episode added much to the narrative or offer much value in any other way.Not rude at all, but people like Law & Order because of what it is. This isn't that, obviously, and needs to be enjoyed in a different way.That's because it isn't a Law and Order episode. I don't mean that rude, just that the innerwebs seem to think there will be an arc and a climax when the takeaway is likely to be (1) the evidence still looks shakey but (2) he DID have a chance to go through the process and defend himself and he was convicted. /podcast.Just finished this week's. Snoozer, agreed.
I didn't think in a 40 minute episode, spending 30 minutes discussing him stealing 20 dollars from a church collection plate as a young kid really revealed anything about him that was shocking, interesting or important. The conclusion equivalent for me was, a kid may have stolen 2 candy bars from the convenience store, or he may have stolen 40 over the course of his childhood.
Or....Syed may be a sociopath, or he may not be. Syed may have been in a fugue state when killing Hae, but he might not have.
I didn't hate it. It was just the weakest of the series and hardly kept my interest.
This is how I felt as well. I never expected any sort of final resolution back when I started (by catching up to 6 episodes) and that was even before I realized that she was recording these on the fly. It's just that this particular segment contained nothing that approached being interesting, whereas last week's was pretty informative and showed a side of something most wanted to hear more about. It just seemed like she had ideas for 11 episodes and threw this stuff in here, while she could have chosen a lot of other areas to explore some more if she really wanted to fill 12 episodes. Hell, I would have been fine with this entire episode being nothing more than just recapping where she stood at this point.Not rude at all, but people like Law & Order because of what it is. This isn't that, obviously, and needs to be enjoyed in a different way.That's because it isn't a Law and Order episode. I don't mean that rude, just that the innerwebs seem to think there will be an arc and a climax when the takeaway is likely to be (1) the evidence still looks shakey but (2) he DID have a chance to go through the process and defend himself and he was convicted. /podcast.Just finished this week's. Snoozer, agreed.
I didn't think in a 40 minute episode, spending 30 minutes discussing him stealing 20 dollars from a church collection plate as a young kid really revealed anything about him that was shocking, interesting or important. The conclusion equivalent for me was, a kid may have stolen 2 candy bars from the convenience store, or he may have stolen 40 over the course of his childhood.
Or....Syed may be a sociopath, or he may not be. Syed may have been in a fugue state when killing Hae, but he might not have.
I didn't hate it. It was just the weakest of the series and hardly kept my interest.
This actually would have been awesome. I'd have listened to that twice.This is how I felt as well. I never expected any sort of final resolution back when I started (by catching up to 6 episodes) and that was even before I realized that she was recording these on the fly. It's just that this particular segment contained nothing that approached being interesting, whereas last week's was pretty informative and showed a side of something most wanted to hear more about. It just seemed like she had ideas for 11 episodes and threw this stuff in here, while she could have chosen a lot of other areas to explore some more if she really wanted to fill 12 episodes. Hell, I would have been fine with this entire episode being nothing more than just recapping where she stood at this point.Not rude at all, but people like Law & Order because of what it is. This isn't that, obviously, and needs to be enjoyed in a different way.That's because it isn't a Law and Order episode. I don't mean that rude, just that the innerwebs seem to think there will be an arc and a climax when the takeaway is likely to be (1) the evidence still looks shakey but (2) he DID have a chance to go through the process and defend himself and he was convicted. /podcast.Just finished this week's. Snoozer, agreed.
I didn't think in a 40 minute episode, spending 30 minutes discussing him stealing 20 dollars from a church collection plate as a young kid really revealed anything about him that was shocking, interesting or important. The conclusion equivalent for me was, a kid may have stolen 2 candy bars from the convenience store, or he may have stolen 40 over the course of his childhood.
Or....Syed may be a sociopath, or he may not be. Syed may have been in a fugue state when killing Hae, but he might not have.
I didn't hate it. It was just the weakest of the series and hardly kept my interest.
Just not enough time. The Innocence Project takes awhile to work. Adnan has an appeal hearing in January.Even an update on the Innocence Project work on the case would have been more interesting to me. Surely, that could have been pulled together quite easily.
Oh well, it's a ground breaking podcast format that I'm sure they are feeling their way through. They may have just miscalculated the number of episodes needed to keep the audience interested.