Sesame Street Values - (Winning is Secondary) (1 Viewer)

[fantasycurse42]

I've seen two programs over the last week with my son. Both were of Elmo competing in some type of sporting event, one was an Olympics like thing and the other was an all world hot potato match.

Here is what I kind of disagree with:

Elmo has the opportunity to win the Olympics when his competition falls down over a hurdle. He stops, goes back and helps his competition who then goes on to beat Elmo. The premise of this was obviously that sportsmanship is above and all number one.

On the other episode of hot potato, Elmo bothers his friends because he is too competitive after becoming the best at hot potato.

The key take away is that winning is secondary. While I appreciate the thought, winning still takes precedent to me. I want my son and any other potential children I have to be good sports who enjoy playing, but they should strive to be the best at what they do, not just participants. I think it is kinda odd that we are breeding kids with the mentality that being the best isn't as important as just being a participant.

 

[Brony]

Thought this would be about how much sesame seed you can score for a rack.

 

[mr roboto]

I've seen two programs over the last week with my son. Both were of Elmo competing in some type of sporting event, one was an Olympics like thing and the other was an all world hot potato match.

Here is what I kind of disagree with:

Elmo has the opportunity to win the Olympics when his competition falls down over a hurdle. He stops, goes back and helps his competition who then goes on to beat Elmo. The premise of this was obviously that sportsmanship is above and all number one.

On the other episode of hot potato, Elmo bothers his friends because he is too competitive after becoming the best at hot potato.

The key take away is that winning is secondary. While I appreciate the thought, winning still takes precedent to me. I want my son and any other potential children I have to be good sports who enjoy playing, but they should strive to be the best at what they do, not just participants. I think it is kinda odd that we are breeding kids with the mentality that being the best isn't as important as just being a participant.

I kinda get what you're saying but if you're not careful you are gonna raise a cocky #####-bag.

 

[butcher boy]

liberal handout culture in effect right there. maybe in the new republican america brought forth from the recent election, these ideals will go away.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I've seen two programs over the last week with my son. Both were of Elmo competing in some type of sporting event, one was an Olympics like thing and the other was an all world hot potato match.

Here is what I kind of disagree with:

Elmo has the opportunity to win the Olympics when his competition falls down over a hurdle. He stops, goes back and helps his competition who then goes on to beat Elmo. The premise of this was obviously that sportsmanship is above and all number one.

On the other episode of hot potato, Elmo bothers his friends because he is too competitive after becoming the best at hot potato.

The key take away is that winning is secondary. While I appreciate the thought, winning still takes precedent to me. I want my son and any other potential children I have to be good sports who enjoy playing, but they should strive to be the best at what they do, not just participants. I think it is kinda odd that we are breeding kids with the mentality that being the best isn't as important as just being a participant.

I kinda get what you're saying but if you're not careful you are gonna raise a cocky #####-bag.

I agree there is a fine line here, but you don't compete at things for the sake of competing... I feel like these are becoming 21st century American values. Being a good sport and not be a sore loser/winner is certainly important, but if you don't keep score, I just don't see the point.

You could apply the same principles to grades. I don't want my kid to hand in a paper to hand it in, I want him to be the smartest. Completing tasks and playing well together is important, but it is nice to separate yourself as a leader in whatever it is you excel at. Just my

 

[Thunderlips]

Wouldn't the first example be more of an commentary on not taking a cheap victory? It's not like he let the guy win to feel good.....Elmo didn't want his glory sullied by some inanimate hurdle;.....his leniency just ended up biting him in the ###.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

When Lightning McQueen went back to help the King, allowing Chick Hicks to cross first and win the Piston Cup, everyone could see what happened and McQueen's sportsmanship paid immediate dividends. The crowd was hostile to Hicks, never accepting him as the true Champion as they all saw what he did to the King and knew that McQueen could easily have won. McQueen got the Dinaco sponsorship offer anyway, although in the end he stayed with Rust-Eze out of loyalty, since they had supported him for so long. He got Sally in the end as well, and experienced great success setting up shop in a rejuvenated Radiator Springs.

 

[McGarnicle]

Great sentiment, but wrong context. You never stop pushing until the race is over, then you go shake the loser's hand and say nice race. You can be a good sport without being a little beeyotch.

Hate to say it because I loved the show when I was little, but you should block PBS if that's how they're indoctrinating your kid. There are enough lazy idiots in the world who think they're really special.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Wouldn't the first example be more of an commentary on not taking a cheap victory? It's not like he let the guy win to feel good.....Elmo didn't want his glory sullied by some inanimate hurdle;.....his leniency just ended up biting him in the ###.

Elmo stated:

Elmo can win the race, but so and so is down, what should I do? I need to help him... Then he was happy for the puppet who won.

The premise as I saw it was winning is secondary, being a good sport is primary.

 

[fantasycurse42]

When Lightning McQueen went back to help the King, allowing Chick Hicks to cross first and win the Piston Cup, everyone could see what happened and McQueen's sportsmanship paid immediate dividends. The crowd was hostile to Hicks, never accepting him as the true Champion as they all saw what he did to the King and knew that McQueen could easily have won. McQueen got the Dinaco sponsorship offer anyway, although in the end he stayed with Rust-Eze out of loyalty, since they had supported him for so long. He got Sally in the end as well, and experienced great success setting up shop in a rejuvenated Radiator Springs.

Spoiler I've never seen Cars

 

[mr roboto]

Wouldn't the first example be more of an commentary on not taking a cheap victory? It's not like he let the guy win to feel good.....Elmo didn't want his glory sullied by some inanimate hurdle;.....his leniency just ended up biting him in the ###.

Elmo stated:

Elmo can win the race, but so and so is down, what should I do? I need to help him... Then he was happy for the puppet who won.

The premise as I saw it was winning is secondary, being a good sport is primary.

Yes. Which is not at odds with 'try your hardest to win.' If you think it's is, you are too competitive IMO. I want my kids to know that first priority is hard ethical work. Not winning. Winning isn't the most important and shouldn't be in life. Maybe in HS football but that's not real life anyway.

Everyone hates the 'win at all costs' dic bag at the office or on the freeway.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Elmo is only good for teaching this: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aTvcOhWEXO4/hqdefault.jpg

 

[hagmania]

Gonna have to agree with Elmo on this one.

 

[pantagrapher]

Serious business.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Wouldn't the first example be more of an commentary on not taking a cheap victory? It's not like he let the guy win to feel good.....Elmo didn't want his glory sullied by some inanimate hurdle;.....his leniency just ended up biting him in the ###.

Elmo stated:

Elmo can win the race, but so and so is down, what should I do? I need to help him... Then he was happy for the puppet who won.

The premise as I saw it was winning is secondary, being a good sport is primary.

Yes. Which is not at odds with 'try your hardest to win.' If you think it's is, you are too competitive IMO.I want my kids to know that first priority is hard ethical work. Not winning. Winning isn't the most important and shouldn't be in life. Maybe in HS football but that's not real life anyway.

Everyone hates the 'win at all costs' dic bag at the office or on the freeway.

Here is where we may disagree or we could just be putting the word winning in different contexts.

I think competition is extremely important in improving yourself. Nobody will ever be the best at anything they do, there will always be someone who can do whatever it is you do better (unless you are that 1 in 6 billion). However, striving to be the very best at whatever you are an expert at (whether it be basketball, baseball, debate club, chess club, or competitive eating) is very important. Just being a participant won't get you anywhere in life.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Serious business.

Programs like these make a strong impression on young children

 

[Cjw_55106]

Gonna have to agree with Elmo on this one.

I never agree with anyone that talks about themselves in the third person.

 

[Quez]

Nick Jr. Is where it's at. My 2.5 yo doesn't even watch Sesame anymore. He has all the stuffed characters, and some little cars, but just isn't that into it.

He really likes a show called Umi Zoomi.

 

[pantagrapher]

Serious business.

Programs like these make a strong impression on young children

So do parents who tell them that Sesame Street is wrong and that winning is the most important thing, so have at it.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Gonna have to agree with Elmo on this one.

I never agree with anyone that talks about themselves in the third person.

George is getting angry

 

[Gr00vus]

I think it is kinda odd that we are breeding kids with the mentality that being the best isn't as important as just being a participant.

They're challenging your notion of what being the best means. Winning contests all the time doesn't necessarily make you the best big picture wise. There's more important stuff in life than always winning your game.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

“A man's greatest pleasure is to defeat his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them that which they possessed, to see those whom they cherished in tears, to ride their horses, and to hold their muppets in his arms.”

 

[hagmania]

Elmo won at life in the race imo.

Hot Potato is meh, but no one likes a braggart/blowhard.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I think it is kinda odd that we are breeding kids with the mentality that being the best isn't as important as just being a participant.

They're challenging your notion of what being the best means. Winning contests all the time doesn't necessarily make you the best big picture wise. There's more important stuff in life than always winning your game.

Being the best to me means knowing the answer, planning the right course of action, making the right decision, being the first picked, succeeding where others will fail, being the person people look to when there is uncertainty, etc. etc... Sure, winning contests/games comes with the territory.

ETA: I think these are important characteristics of someone who succeeds, and sometimes this person will have enemies and won't make friends with everyone along the road.

With that being said, if my son doesn't like baseball, I won't make him play baseball... If he wants a microscope and his ambitions are being some type of scientist, I will nudge him to be the best scientist he can be. Participating in a science fair is fun for all, but being the winner of said science fair is prob more fun than the kid whose volcanic mountain didn't work.

 

[Thunderlips]

Wouldn't the first example be more of an commentary on not taking a cheap victory? It's not like he let the guy win to feel good.....Elmo didn't want his glory sullied by some inanimate hurdle;.....his leniency just ended up biting him in the ###.

Elmo stated:

Elmo can win the race, but so and so is down, what should I do? I need to help him... Then he was happy for the puppet who won.

The premise as I saw it was winning is secondary, being a good sport is primary.

Isn't that what they do in the Special Olympics?

 

[pantagrapher]

I think it is kinda odd that we are breeding kids with the mentality that being the best isn't as important as just being a participant.

They're challenging your notion of what being the best means. Winning contests all the time doesn't necessarily make you the best big picture wise. There's more important stuff in life than always winning your game.

Being the best to me means knowing the answer, planning the right course of action, making the right decision, being the first picked, succeeding where others will fail, being the person people look to when there is uncertainty, etc. etc... Sure, winning contests/games comes with the territory.

You can put winning second and still do all these things.

And being picked first is more about what others think. If my daughter is the best basketball player in the school, I'd tell her it doesn't matter where she's picked. I think success should be more about setting her own standards for athletic excellence than worrying about how good someone else thinks she is.

You gonna to tell your son he's not the best unless he gets picked first?

 

[TenTimes]

"Just win, baby!" -Al Davis

I've always loved that quote

 

[cstu]

While I appreciate the thought, winning still takes precedent to me.

Winning doesn't matter - we're all going to be dead someday whether we win or lose.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I think it is kinda odd that we are breeding kids with the mentality that being the best isn't as important as just being a participant.

They're challenging your notion of what being the best means. Winning contests all the time doesn't necessarily make you the best big picture wise. There's more important stuff in life than always winning your game.

Being the best to me means knowing the answer, planning the right course of action, making the right decision, being the first picked, succeeding where others will fail, being the person people look to when there is uncertainty, etc. etc... Sure, winning contests/games comes with the territory.

You can put winning second and still do all these things.

And being picked first is more about what others think. If my daughter is the best basketball player in the school, I'd tell her it doesn't matter where she's picked. I think success should be more about setting her own standards for athletic excellence than worrying about how good someone else thinks she is.

You gonna to tell your son he's not the best unless he gets picked first?

I will be honest with my kid as he grows. Thinking you are the best at everything is poisonous, working to be the best at something is admirable.

 

[cstu]

I agree there is a fine line here, but you don't compete at things for the sake of competing... I feel like these are becoming 21st century American values. Being a good sport and not be a sore loser/winner is certainly important, but if you don't keep score, I just don't see the point.

You could apply the same principles to grades. I don't want my kid to hand in a paper to hand it in, I want him to be the smartest. Completing tasks and playing well together is important, but it is nice to separate yourself as a leader in whatever it is you excel at. Just my

Your kid will never be the smartest.

 

[Mister Martie]

 

[cstu]

Here is where we may disagree or we could just be putting the word winning in different contexts.

I think competition is extremely important in improving yourself. Nobody will ever be the best at anything they do, there will always be someone who can do whatever it is you do better (unless you are that 1 in 6 billion). However, striving to be the very best at whatever you are an expert at (whether it be basketball, baseball, debate club, chess club, or competitive eating) is very important. Just being a participant won't get you anywhere in life.

Why does it matter? Isn't striving to be good enough for you? At some point everyone reaches their peak - what do you do then?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Serious business.

Programs like these make a strong impression on young children

Young children, hell, Elmo made a real impression on me. His lifetime list may be even more impressive than Jeter's. All the major female stars of the past three decades have been in a scene with Elmo, and that rapacious little muppet learned his moves from Bill Cosby. You just wait until the damn breaks and the accusations start to fly. Hell, on his Christmas special alone you just know he was banging letter Carrier Kelly and Mrs. Noodles at the same time. I even heard he had turned out Prairie Dawn and Zoe to work the streets. I remember him signing that song about keeping his pimp hand strong.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Here is where we may disagree or we could just be putting the word winning in different contexts.

I think competition is extremely important in improving yourself. Nobody will ever be the best at anything they do, there will always be someone who can do whatever it is you do better (unless you are that 1 in 6 billion). However, striving to be the very best at whatever you are an expert at (whether it be basketball, baseball, debate club, chess club, or competitive eating) is very important. Just being a participant won't get you anywhere in life.

Why does it matter? Isn't striving to be good enough for you? At some point everyone reaches their peak - what do you do then?

Accepting you have reached a peak creates mediocrity IMO. If you just accept this is what it is, how does one ever improve? My kid gets a C on a paper, I'll tell him he needs to study more or if he strikes out in a big spot I'll take him to the batting cages (this assumes he enjoys the game, I won't push it on him if he doesn't enjoy it)...

There is always room for improvement... For me, you, or anyone else.

 

[Quez]

Winning is easy. Who doesn't like to win? The hard part is losing. I know adults who still haven't managed to learn how to take a loss.

The problem with society today is everyone has to win. Trophies for last place? Get out of here!

To rectify this you need to beat the tar out of your kids in everything you play them at.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Seems like a great approach.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

Are you worried Elmo will have a more lasting impression on your kid than you will?

 

[cstu]

Here is where we may disagree or we could just be putting the word winning in different contexts.

I think competition is extremely important in improving yourself. Nobody will ever be the best at anything they do, there will always be someone who can do whatever it is you do better (unless you are that 1 in 6 billion). However, striving to be the very best at whatever you are an expert at (whether it be basketball, baseball, debate club, chess club, or competitive eating) is very important. Just being a participant won't get you anywhere in life.

Why does it matter? Isn't striving to be good enough for you? At some point everyone reaches their peak - what do you do then?

Accepting you have reached a peak creates mediocrity IMO. If you just accept this is what it is, how does one ever improve? My kid gets a C on a paper, I'll tell him he needs to study more or if he strikes out in a big spot I'll take him to the batting cages (this assumes he enjoys the game, I won't push it on him if he doesn't enjoy it)...

There is always room for improvement... For me, you, or anyone else.

Yes, you should always try to improve but life is not a competition.

 

[McGarnicle]

Wouldn't the first example be more of an commentary on not taking a cheap victory? It's not like he let the guy win to feel good.....Elmo didn't want his glory sullied by some inanimate hurdle;.....his leniency just ended up biting him in the ###.

Elmo stated:

Elmo can win the race, but so and so is down, what should I do? I need to help him... Then he was happy for the puppet who won.

The premise as I saw it was winning is secondary, being a good sport is primary.

Yes. Which is not at odds with 'try your hardest to win.' If you think it's is, you are too competitive IMO. I want my kids to know that first priority is hard ethical work. Not winning. Winning isn't the most important and shouldn't be in life. Maybe in HS football but that's not real life anyway.

Everyone hates the 'win at all costs' dic bag at the office or on the freeway.

Not every aspect of an athletic contest is a corollary to real life. You can be competitive in sports without being a turd of a human being in other areas. Also, stopping for a fallen competitor is not something I've ever seen in track & field and really doesn't make any sense. It's a timed event, so you don't break stride, ever. They have doctors and trainers in case of injury.

 

[cstu]

All of your trophies are going to end up in a landfill someday.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I'm pretty sure you don't need to teach competitiveness. Maybe work on when competitiveness is appropriate?

 

[TenTimes]

All of your trophies are going to end up in a landfill someday.

Very Tyler Durdenian

 

[fantasycurse42]

Here is where we may disagree or we could just be putting the word winning in different contexts.

I think competition is extremely important in improving yourself. Nobody will ever be the best at anything they do, there will always be someone who can do whatever it is you do better (unless you are that 1 in 6 billion). However, striving to be the very best at whatever you are an expert at (whether it be basketball, baseball, debate club, chess club, or competitive eating) is very important. Just being a participant won't get you anywhere in life.

Why does it matter? Isn't striving to be good enough for you? At some point everyone reaches their peak - what do you do then?

Accepting you have reached a peak creates mediocrity IMO. If you just accept this is what it is, how does one ever improve? My kid gets a C on a paper, I'll tell him he needs to study more or if he strikes out in a big spot I'll take him to the batting cages (this assumes he enjoys the game, I won't push it on him if he doesn't enjoy it)...

There is always room for improvement... For me, you, or anyone else.

Yes, you should always try to improve but life is not a competition.

I disagree with this.

 

[Apple Jack]

Buttermaker > the other guy

 

[fantasycurse42]

All of your trophies are going to end up in a landfill someday.

But your success can be passed down.

 

[GregR]

I'm pretty sure you don't need to teach competitiveness. Maybe work on when competitiveness is appropriate?

This is what I was just going to say.

You don't need to teach most people anything in the spectrum that starts with competitive and ends with greedy and selfishness. That will happen on its own.

You do need to teach the opposite, that competitiveness has its place but so do other things like sportsmanship. Those aren't as likely to be picked up without someone stressing them.

 

[mr roboto]

Everybody has a potential ceiling at whatever they do. You can only get so strong, only get so fast, only become so naturally smart. The truth of success is not that you have to be the best at one thing. If you study the most successful people, those who have achieved the highest levels then yes, they are super geniuses or super athletic or very very good at one specific thing.

But if you look at the best majority of relatively successful people you realize that they are usually competent to very good at a number of things and can adapt and change over their life to take on different careers or goals or business opportunities.

Part of my job requires me to mentor and coach small business owners to become more successful at their business. The key is not to become the best marketer or the most accurate financial record keeper. The key is to NOT SUCK at any one thing. Fatal flaws keep people from achieving.

If you raise your kid to always try to be the best I assure you he will turn out to either be a di-ck or look back and resent you for pushing and judging his performance. Please be very careful with this.

Having said all that, I am not advocating that every kid gets a medal and is told that they're graded everything. But there is a big difference between the everyone gets a medal theory and the survival of the fittest theory.

 

[fantasycurse42]

On another note, this is such a breathe of fresh air instead of talking about grand jury indictments... I just don't want to participate in those discussions anymore, except for the comedy this board provides on those topics.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

I'm generally pretty competitive, but it's not something my parents taught me or anything I learned on TV.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I am not advocating that every kid gets a medal and is told that they're graded everything. But there is a big difference between the everyone gets a medal theory and the survival of the fittest theory.

I agree with this, but feel as a society we are moving in the direction of the participation trophy mentality more and more...