Shooting at Ft. Hood (1 Viewer)

[jon_mx]

I suggested it should be a consideration if other factors warrant it. That is not even close to be saying, "blind persecution of all Muslim soldiers as has been suggested". You completely mischaracterized what I said.

I think the military needs to address this. There are about 15,000 Muslims in the military, probably about 1% of the total. My first guess when this happened was that is was probably a Muslim. That sounds so racist, but what should be a 1 in a 100 chance, is more like 50-50.

The military needs to address what exactly?

Not being overly politically correct and ignoring the threat of Islamic terrorism even from domestic sources.

 

[jon_mx]

You're missing the point on several levels. Most basically that we were talking about all right wingers and not just the Klan. That's like asking how many have died in the Armenian Genocide in the last 10 years. If anything the right wingers have been at it longer, they should be a bigger risk.

The big theme, however, was that you can come up with fringe lunatics who kinda believe what some mainstream people believe. That doesn't mean you should clamp down on the mainstream.

For example, a GB of mine recently completed OCS. He's the biggest environmentalist I know. We've already established that liberal eco-terrorism is alive and well, is my friend a risk of shooting up a base like all these Muslims are?

The Klan is no more representive of the right wing then the Nazi's are representative of the left wing.

WAT?

I thought it was pretty clear. It is just as idiotic to use the klan as evidence of the dangers of right wing terrorism as it is to use the Nazi activities as evidence against the left wing.

 

[JZilla]

when the brain fails, evoke Hitler

 

[urbanhack]

You're missing the point on several levels. Most basically that we were talking about all right wingers and not just the Klan. That's like asking how many have died in the Armenian Genocide in the last 10 years. If anything the right wingers have been at it longer, they should be a bigger risk.

The big theme, however, was that you can come up with fringe lunatics who kinda believe what some mainstream people believe. That doesn't mean you should clamp down on the mainstream.

For example, a GB of mine recently completed OCS. He's the biggest environmentalist I know. We've already established that liberal eco-terrorism is alive and well, is my friend a risk of shooting up a base like all these Muslims are?

The Klan is no more representive of the right wing then the Nazi's are representative of the left wing.

WAT?

I thought it was pretty clear. It is just as idiotic to use the klan as evidence of the dangers of right wing terrorism as it is to use the Nazi activities as evidence against the left wing.

His WAT is because the NAZI set is right tilting, not left.

thank you

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Exactly. He should have invoked Canadian Mounties, the Red Army or Leninists.

 

[jon_mx]

[quote name='jon_mx' post='11077354' date='Nov 7 His WAT is because the NAZI set is right tilting, not left.

thank you

Yeah, somehow a big centralized government wanting to socialize all industries is right wing. That has to be the most ignorant re-writing of history ever. Anti-semetism is not right wing either, just see Jimmy Carter and Obama. Nazism is just a fascist implimentation of socialism with some racism sprinkled on. I have never understood how any intelligent person can rationalize it being right wing.

 

[jon_mx]

when the brain fails, evoke Hitler

That is how i felt about invoking the KKK. That was my response to that. That was where the crap started.

 

[JZilla]

Oh boy, more Obama, here in the Ft Hood thread! Obama the anti-Semite, who has Rahm Emanuel pulling half his strings.

The Nazi crap is pure sensational BS. You want to equate the left to 100 years of Commies, go right ahead. This Nazi thing makes you and Glenn Beck and the Bueller guy and everybody else who does it sound like an absolute fool.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Oh boy, more Obama, here in the Ft Hood thread! Obama the anti-Semite, who has Rahm Emanuel pulling half his strings.The Nazi crap is pure sensational BS. You want to equate the left to 100 years of Commies, go right ahead. This Nazi thing makes you and Glenn Beck and the Bueller guy and everybody else who does it sound like an absolute fool.

I was right about the Mounties, though. Wasn't I?

 

[JZilla]

when the brain fails, evoke Hitler

That is how i felt about invoking the KKK. That was my response to that. That was where the crap started.

Call 'em Commies if you must. The Nazi thing does you no good. Republicans AND Democrats have historical ties to the KKK, that's not news.This Nazi garbage needs to stop. So stupid.

 

[jon_mx]

when the brain fails, evoke Hitler

That is how i felt about invoking the KKK. That was my response to that. That was where the crap started.

Call 'em Commies if you must. The Nazi thing does you no good. Republicans AND Democrats have historical ties to the KKK, that's not news.This Nazi garbage needs to stop. So stupid.

I did not call them Nazis. I used an analysis to illustrate the stupidity of invoking the KKK to point out how stupid it is.

 

[JZilla]

Oh boy, more Obama, here in the Ft Hood thread! Obama the anti-Semite, who has Rahm Emanuel pulling half his strings.The Nazi crap is pure sensational BS. You want to equate the left to 100 years of Commies, go right ahead. This Nazi thing makes you and Glenn Beck and the Bueller guy and everybody else who does it sound like an absolute fool.

I was right about the Mounties, though. Wasn't I?

When you're speaking moose in 10 years, you'll wish you'd been nicer to the Mounties

 

[JZilla]

when the brain fails, evoke Hitler

That is how i felt about invoking the KKK. That was my response to that. That was where the crap started.

Call 'em Commies if you must. The Nazi thing does you no good. Republicans AND Democrats have historical ties to the KKK, that's not news.This Nazi garbage needs to stop. So stupid.

I did not call them Nazis. I used an analysis to illustrate the stupidity of invoking the KKK to point out how stupid it is.

Alright I'll pretend I didn't see the part where you tried to tie the left to the Nazis, and called Carter and Obama anti-SemitesDemocrats invoking the KKK is indeed a bad idea. All us whiteys should just leave that alone. Though in their defense, the bulk of your neutered KKK today only really carry one political card.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

when the brain fails, evoke Hitler

That is how i felt about invoking the KKK. That was my response to that. That was where the crap started.

Call 'em Commies if you must. The Nazi thing does you no good. Republicans AND Democrats have historical ties to the KKK, that's not news.This Nazi garbage needs to stop. So stupid.

I did not call them Nazis. I used an analysis to illustrate the stupidity of invoking the KKK to point out how stupid it is.

Alright I'll pretend I didn't see the part where you tried to tie the left to the Nazis, and called Carter and Obama anti-SemitesDemocrats invoking the KKK is indeed a bad idea. All us whiteys should just leave that alone. Though in their defense, the bulk of your neutered KKK today only really carry one political card.

It's the ace of spades, isn't it?

 

[urbanhack]

[quote name='jon_mx' post='11077354' date='Nov 7 His WAT is because the NAZI set is right tilting, not left.

thank you

Yeah, somehow a big centralized government wanting to socialize all industries

who wants to do this?

 

[JZilla]

Alright I'll pretend I didn't see the part where you tried to tie the left to the Nazis, and called Carter and Obama anti-SemitesDemocrats invoking the KKK is indeed a bad idea. All us whiteys should just leave that alone. Though in their defense, the bulk of your neutered KKK today only really carry one political card.

It's the ace of spades, isn't it?

 

[timschochet]

I don't want to have any Muslim Americans under suspicion for being Muslims.

I don't want any Muslim American soldiers under suspicion for being soldiers.

On the other hand, if, as has been reported in several places, you have a Muslim American soldier who is publicly justifying suicide bombings, calling them a good thing, and warning about Jihad, I think it's reasonable to keep an eye on that soldier. Actually, I would be for keeping an eye on ANYONE who publicly justifies suicide bombings and/or Jihad, but especially Muslims who do so, because this sort of act is performed primarily by Muslims around the world, and that is a fact we can't escape from. Is there anyone who disagrees with this?

 

[Joe_Mama]

[quote name='jon_mx' post='11077354' date='Nov 7 His WAT is because the NAZI set is right tilting, not left.

thank you

Yeah, somehow a big centralized government wanting to socialize all industries is right wing. That has to be the most ignorant re-writing of history ever. Anti-semetism is not right wing either, just see Jimmy Carter and Obama. Nazism is just a fascist implimentation of socialism with some racism sprinkled on. I have never understood how any intelligent person can rationalize it being right wing.

Nazism is fascism. Fascism, by definition, is right wing--on the opposite end from socialism/communism. I can't understand how any educated person, intelligent or not, can't understand that Nazism IS the right wing.

From Wiki: "Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism[1][2][3][4] with a corporatist economic system,[5] and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum."

I learned that in Econ 101 many, many years ago. I knew it before then.

 

[Soonerman]

Do you see how that goes against your argument?

The fact is there are a ton of right wing terrorist groups in the US today. They have carried out thousands of terrorist attacks (even after the era of the KKK...which still exists). Does that mean that every registered Republican in the military who doesn't want to deploy should be looked upon skeptically? You can come up with any group and then show how people who share some kind of ideology have bastardized it into something that it isn't.

There are also a ton of liberal organizations who commit acts of terrorism. It's a good thing I didn't tell anybody I voted for Obama, they might have stripped my clearance.

So domestically, how many have the Klan killed in the last 10 years vs how many have been killed by Muslim terrorists?

You're missing the point on several levels. Most basically that we were talking about all right wingers and not just the Klan. That's like asking how many have died in the Armenian Genocide in the last 10 years. If anything the right wingers have been at it longer, they should be a bigger risk.

The point is who is the biggest threat now? You were the one who posted a chart about all the killings associated with the Klan. So yeah, if I were a Black American living 100 years ago, I would fear the Klan. Now, not so much. Muslim terrorists are easily the biggest threat right now.

 

[Fennis]

It has everything to do with it. He choose his Islamic faith over his country. They guy was shouting Allah.

Absolutely. So all Muslim soldiers are a threat, or just those who are devout, or just this guy? Every Muslim says Allahu-akbar 5 times a day or more. Just like Christians say Amen.No doubt this guy lost it and leaned on Islam to essentially justify his newfound cause of killing fellow American soldiers. Doesn't have much to do with Muslim soldiers as a whole if you ask me. Despite your assertions that you were so sure this was a Muslim, non-Muslims pull this shooting spree crap all the time.

Unless something changed today, there is no confirmation that the guy even said "Allahu-akbar". The only report is form a single unnamed witness. Witnesses who also said there were three shooters.Even if the guy did shout Allahu-akbar, who cares? There are tons of people who evoke their religion while killing. Scott Roeder killed Dr. Tiller in the name of Christ.

 

[Fennis]

Do you see how that goes against your argument?

The fact is there are a ton of right wing terrorist groups in the US today. They have carried out thousands of terrorist attacks (even after the era of the KKK...which still exists). Does that mean that every registered Republican in the military who doesn't want to deploy should be looked upon skeptically? You can come up with any group and then show how people who share some kind of ideology have bastardized it into something that it isn't.

There are also a ton of liberal organizations who commit acts of terrorism. It's a good thing I didn't tell anybody I voted for Obama, they might have stripped my clearance.

So domestically, how many have the Klan killed in the last 10 years vs how many have been killed by Muslim terrorists?

You're missing the point on several levels. Most basically that we were talking about all right wingers and not just the Klan. That's like asking how many have died in the Armenian Genocide in the last 10 years. If anything the right wingers have been at it longer, they should be a bigger risk.

The point is who is the biggest threat now? You were the one who posted a chart about all the killings associated with the Klan. So yeah, if I were a Black American living 100 years ago, I would fear the Klan. Now, not so much. Muslim terrorists are easily the biggest threat right now.

There is a huge difference in fearing or worrying about terrorism and blaming a crime by an insane man on terrorism.

 

[Fennis]

Yeah, somehow a big centralized government wanting to socialize all industries is right wing. That has to be the most ignorant re-writing of history ever. Anti-semetism is not right wing either, just see Jimmy Carter and Obama. Nazism is just a fascist implimentation of socialism with some racism sprinkled on. I have never understood how any intelligent person can rationalize it being right wing.

Nazism is fascism. Fascism, by definition, is right wing--on the opposite end from socialism/communism. I can't understand how any educated person, intelligent or not, can't understand that Nazism IS the right wing.From Wiki: "Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism[1][2][3][4] with a corporatist economic system,[5] and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum."

I learned that in Econ 101 many, many years ago. I knew it before then.

calling Nazism leftist is a talk tadio thing. HTH

 

[jonessed]

Yeah, somehow a big centralized government wanting to socialize all industries is right wing. That has to be the most ignorant re-writing of history ever. Anti-semetism is not right wing either, just see Jimmy Carter and Obama. Nazism is just a fascist implimentation of socialism with some racism sprinkled on. I have never understood how any intelligent person can rationalize it being right wing.

Nazism is fascism. Fascism, by definition, is right wing--on the opposite end from socialism/communism. I can't understand how any educated person, intelligent or not, can't understand that Nazism IS the right wing.From Wiki: "Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism[1][2][3][4] with a corporatist economic system,[5] and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum."

I learned that in Econ 101 many, many years ago. I knew it before then.

calling Nazism leftist is a talk tadio thing. HTH

Fascism and Socialism are two sides to the same coin. It's about government control.

 

[Fennis]

Yeah, somehow a big centralized government wanting to socialize all industries is right wing. That has to be the most ignorant re-writing of history ever. Anti-semetism is not right wing either, just see Jimmy Carter and Obama. Nazism is just a fascist implimentation of socialism with some racism sprinkled on. I have never understood how any intelligent person can rationalize it being right wing.

Nazism is fascism. Fascism, by definition, is right wing--on the opposite end from socialism/communism. I can't understand how any educated person, intelligent or not, can't understand that Nazism IS the right wing.From Wiki: "Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism[1][2][3][4] with a corporatist economic system,[5] and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum."

I learned that in Econ 101 many, many years ago. I knew it before then.

calling Nazism leftist is a talk tadio thing. HTH

Fascism and Socialism are two sides to the same coin. It's about government control.

Do you equate modern day Sweden or Denmark with Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy?

 

[Statorama]

Obama shuns Fort Hood to relax at Camp David

Former President Bush and his wife visited Fort Hood

No photo op, just wanted to be there and lend his support for the families. Thought it was a nice gesture by the former President and first lady.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Obama shuns Fort Hood to relax at Camp David

Former President Bush and his wife visited Fort Hood

No photo op, just wanted to be there and lend his support for the families. Thought it was a nice gesture by the former President and first lady.

You do realize the former President doesn't have a job and also is within driving distance of Fort Hood right? I think it's awesome you added this to this thread, well done.

 

[Statorama]

Obama shuns Fort Hood to relax at Camp David

Former President Bush and his wife visited Fort Hood

No photo op, just wanted to be there and lend his support for the families. Thought it was a nice gesture by the former President and first lady.

You do realize the former President doesn't have a job and also is within driving distance of Fort Hood right? I think it's awesome you added this to this thread, well done.

There's still time for Obama to visit. Maybe someone will tell him there's a fundraiser down there and he'll gas up the jet.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Obama shuns Fort Hood to relax at Camp David

Former President Bush and his wife visited Fort Hood

No photo op, just wanted to be there and lend his support for the families. Thought it was a nice gesture by the former President and first lady.

You do realize the former President doesn't have a job and also is within driving distance of Fort Hood right? I think it's awesome you added this to this thread, well done.

There's still time for Obama to visit. Maybe someone will tell him there's a fundraiser down there and he'll gas up the jet.

I think you're probably better than this.

 

[Fennis]

Obama shuns Fort Hood to relax at Camp David

Former President Bush and his wife visited Fort Hood

No photo op, just wanted to be there and lend his support for the families. Thought it was a nice gesture by the former President and first lady.

You do realize the former President doesn't have a job and also is within driving distance of Fort Hood right? I think it's awesome you added this to this thread, well done.

There's still time for Obama to visit. Maybe someone will tell him there's a fundraiser down there and he'll gas up the jet.

so you can sleep listen to late night talk radio tonight:

President Barack Obama will attend a memorial service Tuesday honoring victims of the Ford Hood shootings, an attack he described as "all the more heartbreaking and all the more despicable" because it occurred on the nation's largest Army post

 

[Fennis]

Obama shuns Fort Hood to relax at Camp David

Former President Bush and his wife visited Fort Hood

No photo op, just wanted to be there and lend his support for the families. Thought it was a nice gesture by the former President and first lady.

You do realize the former President doesn't have a job and also is within driving distance of Fort Hood right? I think it's awesome you added this to this thread, well done.

There's still time for Obama to visit. Maybe someone will tell him there's a fundraiser down there and he'll gas up the jet.

I think you're probably better than this.

you give him way too much credit.

 

[jonessed]

Yeah, somehow a big centralized government wanting to socialize all industries is right wing. That has to be the most ignorant re-writing of history ever. Anti-semetism is not right wing either, just see Jimmy Carter and Obama. Nazism is just a fascist implimentation of socialism with some racism sprinkled on. I have never understood how any intelligent person can rationalize it being right wing.

Nazism is fascism. Fascism, by definition, is right wing--on the opposite end from socialism/communism. I can't understand how any educated person, intelligent or not, can't understand that Nazism IS the right wing.From Wiki: "Fascism, pronounced /ˈfæʃɪzəm/, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism[1][2][3][4] with a corporatist economic system,[5] and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum."

I learned that in Econ 101 many, many years ago. I knew it before then.

calling Nazism leftist is a talk tadio thing. HTH

Fascism and Socialism are two sides to the same coin. It's about government control.

Do you equate modern day Sweden or Denmark with Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy?

Yes and no. Nazi Germany's form of totalitarianism was very different than that of Fascist Italy. There are similarities and differences both between and within your groupsIn terms of a government system with strong centralized power and control over all affairs they are generally the same. One controls economic processes explicitly through nationalization and the other does so implicitly through autocratic authority over private owners.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I said to myself that if I were President, I definitely would have gone but then I remembered what it's like on a military base with the Commander and Chief there. Security, motorcades, and that extra nervousness that surrounds a visit. Not to mention the manpower you need to support a visit, would have been great for the MAJCOM Commanders to have to roll everyone in on a weekend to support a Presidential visit. Then the time required by the most senior military members to not only plan the visit, but to give their own time to be near the President.

Obama addressed the incident soon after it happened and so did Secretary Gates, The Army Secretary, and Admiral Mullen. Fort Hood is getting all the support they will ever need from the most senior leaders and the response by the Army has been extraordinary. To suggest Obama didn't want to go because he really doesn't care is pretty ignorant IMO. I think it's great W visited, he has a connection to Fort Hood as it is the closest major installation not only to his current home, but his vacation home in Crawford. He probably use the base a lot when he was President and I'd imagine he's made a lot of personal relationships there. I don't even see a political motivation in his trip although if it stirs up people like Statorama, even Bush would probably think it was a bad idea because as a former Commander in Chief and a lifelong Texan, I think he probably just went because he felt horrible like the rest of us.

I'm guessing Obama will visit fairly soon but I see no problem in letting the base get back to some normalcy before he does. All a Presidential visit adds is stress to a base, it probably was better to wait.

 

[Statorama]

I don't even see a political motivation in his trip although if it stirs up people like Statorama

Whoa Hoss, you read something there that wasn't. I commended Bush for going not as a political opportunist, but as a caring former commander in chief.I get myself into enough trouble without you spreading some bull #### I didn't say.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I don't even see a political motivation in his trip although if it stirs up people like Statorama

Whoa Hoss, you read something there that wasn't. I commended Bush for going not as a political opportunist, but as a caring former commander in chief.I get myself into enough trouble without you spreading some bull #### I didn't say.

These were your own words weren't they? What exactly were you trying to say and what exactly did it have to do with the Bush visit? Do you think everyone isn't smart enough to see what you were doing here? Incredible.

Obama shuns Fort Hood to relax at Camp David

 

[urbanhack]

I don't even see a political motivation in his trip although if it stirs up people like Statorama

Whoa Hoss, you read something there that wasn't. I commended Bush for going not as a political opportunist, but as a caring former commander in chief.I get myself into enough trouble without you spreading some bull #### I didn't say.

Nice back pedal lhucks.

 

[Statorama]

I don't even see a political motivation in his trip although if it stirs up people like Statorama

Whoa Hoss, you read something there that wasn't. I commended Bush for going not as a political opportunist, but as a caring former commander in chief.I get myself into enough trouble without you spreading some bull #### I didn't say.

These were your own words weren't they? What exactly were you trying to say and what exactly did it have to do with the Bush visit? Do you think everyone isn't smart enough to see what you were doing here? Incredible.

Obama shuns Fort Hood to relax at Camp David

How is that saying Bush went there as a political opportunist?

 

[Soonerman]

There is a huge difference in fearing or worrying about terrorism and blaming a crime by an insane man on terrorism.

Not terrorism, huh? It's certainly in the ballpark if this story pans out.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...terrorists.html

Major Nidal Malik Hasan worshipped at a mosque led by a radical imam said to be a "spiritual adviser" to three of the hijackers who attacked America on Sept 11, 2001.

Hasan, the sole suspect in the massacre of 13 fellow US soldiers in Texas, attended the controversial Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Great Falls, Virginia, in 2001 at the same time as two of the September 11 terrorists, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt. His mother's funeral was held there in May that year.

The preacher at the time was Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born Yemeni scholar who was banned from addressing a meeting in London by video link in August because he is accused of supporting attacks on British troops and backing terrorist organisations.

Hasan's eyes "lit up" when he mentioned his deep respect for al-Awlaki's teachings, according to a fellow Muslim officer at the Fort Hood base in Texas, the scene of Thursday's horrific shooting spree.

As investigators look at Hasan's motives and mindset, his attendance at the mosque could be an important piece of the jigsaw. Al-Awlaki moved to Dar al-Hijrah as imam in January, 2001, from the west coast, and three months later the September 11 hijackers Nawaf al-Hamzi and Hani Hanjour began attending his services. A third hijacker attended his services in California.

Hasan was praying at Dar al-Hijrah at about the same time, and the FBI will now want to investigate whether he met the two terrorists.

Charles Allen, a former under-secretary for intelligence at the Department of Homeland Security, has described al-Awlaki, who now lives in Yemen, as an "al-Qaeda supporter, and former spiritual leader to three of the September 11 hijackers... who targets US Muslims with radical online lectures encouraging terrorist attacks from his new home in Yemen".

Last night Hasan remained in a coma under guard at a military hospital in San Antonio, Texas, and was said to be in a "stable" condition. Born in America to a Palestinian family, Hasan, 39, was an army psychiatrist who had chosen to sign up for the US military against his parents' wishes.

But he turned into an angry critic of the wars America was waging in Iraq and Afghanistan and had tried in vain to negotiate his discharge.

He counselled soldiers returning from the front line and told relatives that he was horrified at the prospect of a deployment to Afghanistan later this year – his first time in a combat zone.

Whether due to his personal convictions, his stress over his deployment or other reasons, Hasan is alleged to have snapped and gone on a murderous rampage with a powerful semi-automatic handgun after shouting "Allahu Akhbar" ("God is great"), according to survivors. He had earlier given away copies of the Koran to neighbours.

Investigators at this stage have no indication that he planned the attacks with anyone else. But they are trawling through his phone records, paperwork and computers he used before the attack during an apparently sleepless night.

Five of the 13 victims were fellow mental health professionals from three units of the army's Combat Stress Control Detachment, it was disclosed yesterday.

It is understood that Hasan had been due to be deployed with members of those units in coming months. Whether he deliberately singled out other combat stress counsellors is another key question.

What does seem clear is that the army missed an increasing number of red flags that Hasan was a troubled and brooding individual within its ranks.

"I was shocked but not surprised by news of Thursday's attack," said Dr Val Finnell, a fellow student on a public health course in 2007-08 who heard Hasan equate the war on terrorism to a war on Islam. Another student had warned military officials that Hasan was a "ticking time bomb" after he reportedly gave a presentation defending suicide bombers.

Kamran Pasha, the author of Mother of the Believers, a new novel relating the story of Islam from the perspective of Aisha, Prophet Mohammed's wife, was told of the al-Awlaki connection from a Muslim friend who is also an officer at Fort Hood. Using the name Richard, the recent convert to Islam described how he frequently prayed with Hasan at the town mosque after Hasan was deployed to Fort Hood in July. They last worshipped together at predawn prayers on the day of the massacre when Hasan "appeared relaxed and not in any way troubled or nervous".

But Richard had previously argued with Hasan when he said that he felt the "war on terror" was really a war against Islam, expressed anti-Jewish sentiments and defended suicide bombings.

"I asked Richard whether he believed that Hasan was motivated by religious radicalism in his murderous actions," Mr Pasha said.

"Richard, with great sadness, said that he believed this was true. He also believed that psychological factors from Hasan's job as an army psychiatrist added to his pathos. The news that he would be deployed overseas, to a war that he rejected, may have pushed him over the edge.

"But Richard does not excuse Hasan. As a Muslim, he finds Hasan's religious perspectives to be fundamentally misguided. And as a soldier, he finds Hasan's actions cowardly and evil."

Fellow Muslims in the US armed forces have also been quick to denounce Hasan's actions and insist that they were the product of a lone individual rather than of Islamic teachings. Osman Danquah, the co-founder of the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen, said Hasan never expressed anger toward the army or indicated any plans for violence.

But he said that, at their second meeting, Hasan seemed almost incoherent.

"I told him, 'There's something wrong with you'. I didn't get the feeling he was talking for himself, but something just didn't seem right."

He was sufficiently troubled that he recommended the centre reject Hasan's request to become a lay Muslim leader at Fort Hood.

Hasan had, in fact, already come to the attention of the authorities before Thursday's massacre. He was suspected of being the author of internet postings that compared suicide bombers with soldiers who throw themselves on grenades to save others and had also reportedly been warned about proselytising to patients.

At Fort Hood, he told a colleague, Col Terry Lee, that he believed Muslims should rise up against American "aggressors". He made no attempt to hide his desire to end his military service early or his mortification at the prospect of deployment to Afghanistan. "He had people telling him on a daily basis the horrors they saw over there," said his cousin, Nader Hasan.

Yet away from his strident attacks on US foreign policy, he came across as subdued and reclusive – not hostile or threatening. Soldiers he counselled at the Walter Reed hospital in Washington praised him, while at Fort Hood, Kimberly Kesling, the deputy commander of clinical services, remarked: "Up to this point, I would consider him an asset."

Relatives said that the death of Hasan's parents, in 1998 and 2001, turned him more devout. "After he lost his parents he tried to replace their love by reading a lot of books, including the Koran," his uncle Rafiq Hamad said.

"He didn't have a girlfriend, he didn't dance, he didn't go to bars."

His failed search for a wife seemed to haunt Hasan. At the Muslim Community Centre in the Washington suburb of Silver Spring, he signed up for an Islamic matchmaking service, specifying that he wanted a bride who wore the hijab and prayed five times a day.

Adnan Haider, a retired professor of statistics, recalled how at their first meeting last year, a casual introduction after Friday prayers, Hasan immediately asked the academic if he knew "a nice Muslim girl" he could marry.

"It was a strange thing to ask someone you have met two seconds before. It was clear to me he was under pressure, you could just see it in his face," said Prof Haider, 74, who used to work at Georgetown University in Washington. "You could see he was lonely and didn't have friends.

"He is working with psychiatric people and I ask why the people around him didn't spot that something was wrong? When I heard what had happened I actually wasn't that surprised."

Indeed, many of the characteristics attributed to Hasan by acquaintances – withdrawn, unassuming, brooding, socially awkward and never known to have had a girlfriend – have also applied to other mass murderers.

Hasan was born and brought up in Virginia to parents who ran restaurants after emigrating to America from the West Bank. He graduated from Virginia Tech university – coincidentally, the scene of the worst mass shooting in US history in 2007 – with a degree in biochemistry and then joined the army, which trained him as a psychiatrist.

Relatives said that he was subjected to increasingly ugly taunts about his religion and ethnicity from other soldiers after the September 11 attacks. But his uncle insisted yesterday that Hasan would not have been driven to mass murder by revenge or religion.

Speaking in the West Bank town of al-Bireh, Mr Hamad said his nephew "loved America" and could only have been caused to snap by an as yet unexplained factor. "He always said there was no country in the world like America," he told The Sunday Telegraph. "Something big happened to him in Texas. If he did it – and until now I am in denial – it had to have been something huge because revenge was not in his nature."

 

[Statorama]

I don't even see a political motivation in his trip although if it stirs up people like Statorama

Whoa Hoss, you read something there that wasn't. I commended Bush for going not as a political opportunist, but as a caring former commander in chief.I get myself into enough trouble without you spreading some bull #### I didn't say.

Nice back pedal lhucks.

Getting someone to realize they placed their own personal viewpoints into what I wrote is a constant challenge.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I don't even see a political motivation in his trip although if it stirs up people like Statorama

Whoa Hoss, you read something there that wasn't. I commended Bush for going not as a political opportunist, but as a caring former commander in chief.I get myself into enough trouble without you spreading some bull #### I didn't say.

These were your own words weren't they? What exactly were you trying to say and what exactly did it have to do with the Bush visit? Do you think everyone isn't smart enough to see what you were doing here? Incredible.

Obama shuns Fort Hood to relax at Camp David

How is that saying Bush went there as a political opportunist?

Why didn't you just post the news about the Bush visit by itself then? What was the reason you had to say in your own words Obama shunned Fort Hood for Camp David? There was no political motivation there based on your constant about Obama? Really?Anyway my answer to the visit situation is above.

 

[Statorama]

Why didn't you just post the news about the Bush visit by itself then? What was the reason you had to say in your own words Obama shunned Fort Hood for Camp David? There was no political motivation there based on your constant about Obama? Really?Anyway my answer to the visit situation is above.

Just so I have this straight. You're saying that me saying Obama DIDN'T go to Fort Hood = Bush going meant he went for political opportunism. (when for the record I've said multiple times that Bush went because he actually...you know, cared).If that's how you think, I can't get down to that level of intelligence to properly respond.

 

[urbanhack]

Why didn't you just post the news about the Bush visit by itself then? What was the reason you had to say in your own words Obama shunned Fort Hood for Camp David? There was no political motivation there based on your constant about Obama? Really?Anyway my answer to the visit situation is above.

Just so I have this straight. You're saying that me saying Obama DIDN'T go to Fort Hood = Bush going meant he went for political opportunism. (when for the record I've said multiple times that Bush went because he actually...you know, cared).If that's how you think, I can't get down to that level of intelligence to properly respond.

No genius, you took a cheap shot at Obama by the "shun" reference and then posting that Bush went, back to back.

 

[Statorama]

I thought I made myself perfectly clear multiple times, but I'll do it again.

I respect that Bush went there. He went there without a big press entourage, which emphasizes the fact that this was NOT a visit of political opportunity. I think the guy actually cares, and I appreciated a former commander in chief doing that.

 

[Statorama]

Why didn't you just post the news about the Bush visit by itself then? What was the reason you had to say in your own words Obama shunned Fort Hood for Camp David? There was no political motivation there based on your constant about Obama? Really?Anyway my answer to the visit situation is above.

Just so I have this straight. You're saying that me saying Obama DIDN'T go to Fort Hood = Bush going meant he went for political opportunism. (when for the record I've said multiple times that Bush went because he actually...you know, cared).If that's how you think, I can't get down to that level of intelligence to properly respond.

No genius, you took a cheap shot at Obama by the "shun" reference and then posting that Bush went, back to back.

Well yeah, so what? That doesn't mean that I'm saying Bush went out of political opportunity, which is my point.

 

[urbanhack]

Why didn't you just post the news about the Bush visit by itself then? What was the reason you had to say in your own words Obama shunned Fort Hood for Camp David? There was no political motivation there based on your constant about Obama? Really?Anyway my answer to the visit situation is above.

Just so I have this straight. You're saying that me saying Obama DIDN'T go to Fort Hood = Bush going meant he went for political opportunism. (when for the record I've said multiple times that Bush went because he actually...you know, cared).If that's how you think, I can't get down to that level of intelligence to properly respond.

No genius, you took a cheap shot at Obama by the "shun" reference and then posting that Bush went, back to back.

Well yeah, so what? That doesn't mean that I'm saying Bush went out of political opportunity, which is my point.

Nevermind. Keep doing what you do.

 

[Walton Goggins]

I thought I made myself perfectly clear multiple times, but I'll do it again.I respect that Bush went there. He went there without a big press entourage, which emphasizes the fact that this was NOT a visit of political opportunity. I think the guy actually cares, and I appreciated a former commander in chief doing that.

Oh you were perfectly clear the first time.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Why didn't you just post the news about the Bush visit by itself then? What was the reason you had to say in your own words Obama shunned Fort Hood for Camp David? There was no political motivation there based on your constant about Obama? Really?Anyway my answer to the visit situation is above.

Just so I have this straight. You're saying that me saying Obama DIDN'T go to Fort Hood = Bush going meant he went for political opportunism. (when for the record I've said multiple times that Bush went because he actually...you know, cared).If that's how you think, I can't get down to that level of intelligence to properly respond.

:(

 

[Statorama]

I apologize for schticking up this thread. It's disrespecting a pretty serious situation, and I feel badly for doing it.

Won't happen again.

 

[JZilla]

Oh never mind. I guess statorama got what he wanted. The whole thing is now about him. Bravo!

 

[MrPhoenix]

I haven't followed this thread because, well, there just can't be a decent discussion around here anymore before it's a race to see who can derail the thread first but knowing Doctor Detroit a little, for him to get banned in a thread like this. . .it seems the FFA has hit a new high in low. The man is a veteran who has seen more and done more than most all of you to give you the very ability to be #######s to one another. Nice job

he's not banned. looks like he'll be back tomorrow.for the record, his brief suspension was for laying into Brutis/Peens, another military guy who probably won't be back here for awhile. If I know DrD at all, I don't think he'll mind taking a day off.

Good to know Aaron, thanks. The world is a better place.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I was out of town this weekend. With DrD back posting, my grievance has been settled.

 

[ArcticEdge]

My heart goes out to Ft. Hood, the victims, their families and friends. Prayers sent and will keep sending them. Extremely angering and sad. :(

to Doctor Detroit implying, well, not even implying, just ridiculously stating that RBM and Brutis are celebrating the deaths at Ft. Hood. Really poor. Anyone who has been around the last 20 years with even a below average IQ knew what they were saying. Millions of Americans, myself included, said to ourselves that it would not be surprising if this guy was a Muslim. Why is that? Gee, I wonder.. I see people in this thread being the PC police and throwing names around like Timothy Mcveigh(an agnostic) in a weak attempt to say it's stupid to come down on Muslims. When are we going to learn?

to President Obama. His press conference after this sad event was almost disgraceful, talking about health care. I could not believe it. I dont know what to say about that, other than, he doesnt get it.