⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
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Simone Biles Withdraws From Competition - Thoughts? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
jb1020
Footballguy
This country has become soft
That being said if her mental well being could lead to her being injured or even kill her then I understand her position.
This is sort of where I'm at. Does this type of stuff start spilling over into our working lives? I run a small business and have 10 employees. I've worked with, trained them and paid them pretty well for multiple years.
If I need one of them has to make a huge presentation and I give them all the proper tools and resources to nail this presentation then they freak out and leave during their introductions...I think I'm going to be kinda pissed. But would I, as the owner, be at fault for putting too much pressure on this employee? It feels like that's where we're headed. Their freak is now my fault.
She just cracked under pressure. Plain and simple. It happens, she shouldn't be overly criticized for that, but quitting on your team and yourself just doesn't seem like a hero move to me.
We're just soft now. Maybe its a better mindset going forward, but quitting in the big moments is something I have to get used too.
Its awesome people are bringing the mental health issues forward. It certainly needs to be addressed, but we need to figure out how to become mentally tougher.
HarryKane09
Footballguy
(repost from Olympics thread, clearing up some misconceptions about Kerri Strug's vault in the 1996 Olympics)
To protect the next person tempted to bring up Kerri Strug: Strug’s vault in 96 that made her a hero was actually a really selfish act. USA didn’t need Strug’s vault to win gold, and they knew they had enough points to win before she threw her second vault. Karolyi knew the team event was won, but coaxed Strug to vault again for selfish reasons.
At the time, the Optionals portion of the team competition was also the qualifier for the individual all-around and apparatus finals. And at the time, the individual finals were limited to three rep per country. Strug vaulted that second time because if she landed it, she would pass Dominique Moceanu (who was competing with a stress fracture in one leg, and botched her vault) and grab the third USA slot in the all-around a couple days later. That’s why Karolyi coaxed Strug back up to vault again - he knew Moceanu was too hurt to medal in the all-around and wanted Strug to pass Moceanu in the individual scoring.
To protect the next person tempted to bring up Kerri Strug: Strug’s vault in 96 that made her a hero was actually a really selfish act. USA didn’t need Strug’s vault to win gold, and they knew they had enough points to win before she threw her second vault. Karolyi knew the team event was won, but coaxed Strug to vault again for selfish reasons.
At the time, the Optionals portion of the team competition was also the qualifier for the individual all-around and apparatus finals. And at the time, the individual finals were limited to three rep per country. Strug vaulted that second time because if she landed it, she would pass Dominique Moceanu (who was competing with a stress fracture in one leg, and botched her vault) and grab the third USA slot in the all-around a couple days later. That’s why Karolyi coaxed Strug back up to vault again - he knew Moceanu was too hurt to medal in the all-around and wanted Strug to pass Moceanu in the individual scoring.
Another note. Don't argue by claiming whoever you don't agree with are clowns and their talk is nonsense.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Selfish doesn't seem like the right word here. Maybe not needed for the team in that specific event, but strug was no more selfish here than any other athlete in individual events.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Before I knew her reasoning, I was kinda perplexed. I figured she'd had some long lasting anxiety/depression/etc, which in my mind would have figured "well if you know you have this beforehand and think you are around a teetering point, why commit to a trip all the way around the globe instead of letting someone else step in?"
When I read this CNN article , it instantly made a lot more sense. She's pretty much saying her brain is blanking mid-flight. That's terrifying. And at the speeds they're flipping and spinning, that could turn tragic real fast.
I'm not getting into the I support/don't support her crap. I'm saying I understand it. If you can't go into that sprint and launch with 100% focus/confidence, you're potentially knocking on death's (or at least paralysis's) door. It's unfortunate this episode sprouted up now, but we don't get full control of our brains.
When I read this CNN article , it instantly made a lot more sense. She's pretty much saying her brain is blanking mid-flight. That's terrifying. And at the speeds they're flipping and spinning, that could turn tragic real fast.
I'm not getting into the I support/don't support her crap. I'm saying I understand it. If you can't go into that sprint and launch with 100% focus/confidence, you're potentially knocking on death's (or at least paralysis's) door. It's unfortunate this episode sprouted up now, but we don't get full control of our brains.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I didn't want to engage in this thread for very personal reasons and I wasn't sure what I was going to say but I was happy to read your post and I agree with a lot of it. I was disappointed when she did it and wasn't happy with Osaka a couple months ago however, it puts light on several different issues and I am very familiar with the vile and grotesque torture and sexual assault Biles experienced by Nassar who should be executed for the number of lives he forever changed in a negative way. I also blame the entire coaching staff who had to know or be clued in on what was happening, no way those famous US coaches that spanned decades could have not known what was going on under their noses.
As usual nobody is watching out for the victims and Simone was let down once again by her coaches and Team USA which should have stepped in and stopped this. Someone should have privately challenged her because they had to know she was not 100% and ask her if she really felt she wanted to go thru with this...instead she is left out there on a lurch with no one to protect her and she has to go thru the motions and realizes she doesn't belong there right now. I just want her to surround herself with the folks who truly love her and move forward from there but I have an idea.
-I hope she pursues a journalism/sports career covering Olympics and any sport she wants or they will allow her to. I think she has a terrific personality and could be very valuable in uncovering and discovering other wrong doings going on in not just women's sports but the entire spectrum. I would think ESPN would love someone like her front and center. And like Strahan there is some cross appeal here and I could see her hosting a show that's not even directly tied to Sports. I think she has earned a platform to speak and share her experiences, she's young and can draw in a younger audience that seems to be mostly absent lately.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Lacked mental toughness and focus? So coming back from being sexually abused while getting treatment for the sport she dominated in for a decade is easy?
belljr
Footballguy
She has four Olympic golds and 19 world championship titles......
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
And imagine having to deal with a Doctor....a DOCTOR who is given free access to your privates and allowed to insert his fingers and touch you in very unwelcome ways and the abuse goes on and on, this is a person you are supposed to be getting relief from , you are being sent there by your coaching staff because you're suffering real pain from all of the practice and time put in.
You making the connection to owning a business and a power point presentation gone South seem a little off in terms of comparison but maybe others disagree.
supermike80
Footballguy
I cannot come close to expressing how much I disagree with this. I think this is the absolute opposite of what we should teaching our kids, especially our athletes. Competition is tough. It's supposed to be tough. The mental health thing can many times be used as a crutch. I'm not saying Biles is. But I look at it like this. If she had competed, and possibly not done as well as she is expected, THEN came out and said she was struggling mentally but wanted to give it all for her team...I would in no way call that selfish. And if she or the team lost? Well guess what, people lose.
That to me is the message I want our youth and our young athletes getting. Hey, you won't always win. You won't always have good days. A true competitor tries their best always and never quits. And if you fail, that's OK. You will fail in life.
To me her statement was "I can't be the best so I am going to quit and not even try" And I think that's a bad message.
jwb
Footballguy
What if that employee gave multiple winning presentations in the past, and directly made you millions? Is that employee still merely "soft", or do you maybe worry a bit about their health and say "geez, I had no idea, let's get you better" (or something like that?)
This girl already won 4 gold medals, and from what I read, is probably amongst the top (if not THE top) female gymnast of all time.
She needs space to get well. And I think her track record puts any talk of "soft" to rest.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Todem
Footballguy
Simone Biles lacked the toughness? And Mental focus?
So I guess winning 30 medals, five time all around world champion, five time world floor exercise champion, three time world beam champion, two time world vault champion, seven time US National All-Around Champion, member of the gold winning team for the US at the 2014, 2015, 2018, and 2019 World Artistic Gymnastics championships.
She has won the most medals ever in the world in Gymnastics (25) and has the most Gold medals ever in the sport (19).
Yeah...she lacks a lot of mental toughness and focus because she obviously can’t handle pressure.
She has a serious issue going on between her ears and she had the maturity to recognize it and prevented herself from most likely causing herself some serious injury.
I do not applaud quitting because you can’t handle adversity or the moment. She has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt throughout her career she can handle it.
However something is off here. And those that cannot simply recognize the best woman gymnastics athlete in our countries history suddenly quitting is a huge red flag about her mental state is really mind-blowing.
To simply poo poo it as...lack of mental toughness......man.
A lot more will come out on this as time goes on. But she is not fit to compete right now and she will withdraw from all competition in the Olympics....I have no doubt. Something very serious is going on with her.
Because this goes against the grain of everything she has accomplished in her life. She is a decorated champion. Not some kid who cannot handle the heat.
I really find it incredible how people are just going off like it is as simple as....”she can’t handle the pressure”.
She proved that 30 times over in her career.
Ok...I think I made my point.....but man Icon.....come on. You are better than this.
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Todem
Footballguy
Again.....not being mentally right in Gymnastics can be extremely dangerous to ones physical well being.
I have been coaching baseball for over 15 years.....we teach having mental toughness, mental approach....all these things. But if your not “mentally” right....you can’t compete. Period. You're hurting yourself....and your team.
I think people are really getting the wrong read on this. She is clearly not a quitter. She has won so much and also has had plenty of adversity getting to where she is. You don’t reach the highest level...without tons of failure along the way.
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Chemical X
Footballguy
i hate that this country has become one where we must take sides, regardless of whether we are entitled to one. none of us know biles and have no idea what is involved. we are all guessing. is it abuse related? yips related? pressure related? mental health has a vague term right now to me. the optics were bad on this one, but what do i know. is it her responsibility to tell us what is going on? if she came out and said i have developed the yips and don’t feel safe competing, it may help. if that is the case, she likely tried to fight through, rather than deferring to a teammate. she’s not a villain or unamerican. she’s going through something. just another reason why the olympics and these overzealous creep coaches and hanger ons associated with them should go away. i mean, they show that aussie swimmer’s coach going berserk and to me it’s like the worst of an overbearing parent.
culdeus
Footballguy
I don't think there was any thought that she would compete again beyond August 2020, let alone August 2021. This was to be the end.
HarryKane09
Footballguy
A quick synopsis of Simone Biles’s career…
Simone Biles joined the senior international gymnastics circuit in 2013. And she’s been the best gymnast in the world since.
The crown jewel of Artistic Gymnastics is the All-Around competition in the World Championships and Olympics. You have to be world-class in all four apparatuses to even qualify. And because the skill sets in all four are so different, penalties for mistakes are so severe, injuries are so frequent, and the window of peak performance is so narrow, it is rare for a gymnast to win the All-Around at the Worlds more than once, and rare for a gymnast to compete in more than one Olympics.
Simone Biles has won the All-Around at Worlds five times. Add her Olympics All-Around gold in 2016, and Biles has won the crown jewel six times.
Biles has also won apparatus gold at Worlds on Floor, Beam, and Vault, and in 2019 she won all three, This would be like leading the NBA in points, rebounds, and assists in the same season. Here’s a recap of her golds at the Worlds and Olympics before Tokyo:
2013 Worlds: All-Around, Floor
2014 Worlds: All-Around, Floor, Beam
2015 Worlds: All-Around, Floor, Beam
2016 Olympics: All-Around, Floor, Vault
2017: (Did not compete, contemplated retirement)
2018 Worlds: All-Around, Floor, Vault
2019 Worlds: All-Around, Floor, Beam, Vault
2020: (no Olympics or Worlds due to Covid)
(Biles has also won three silvers and three bronzes in apparatuses at Worlds. But the list was getting kinda long.)
Had Biles retired after the 2016 Olympics, she would have left the sport as unquestionably the greatest who ever did it. No one in the sport’s history can match the difficulty of her routines, her excellence in execution, and the length of time she has been at the top. Biles took a year off after Rio, and when she returned she won Worlds again. And again.
The Worlds have been staged 49 times, going back to 1903. Only 8 women have won at least five career individual gold medals in the Worlds via all-around or individual apparatus. Biles has won 15. No one else is in double digits. Add Biles’s four team golds, and she has double the gold of any other competitor.
In fact, if you split Biles’s career into “Birth-To-Rio” and “After Rio”, Birth-To-Rio Biles would be the most decorated gymnast ever, and After Rio Biles would be the third-most decorated, behind Birth-To-Rio Biles and Svetlana Khorkina.
Another measure of an elite gymnast is eponymous skills. When you successfully complete a skill no one else has done before in a top competition, the skill gets named after you. It is a big honor, your name gets written into the sport’s history, and your name gets called out when a subsequent gymnast hits the skill.
It is very rare for a world-class gymnast to have one eponymous skill by the time they retire. Biles has four: a Beam dismount, a Vault, and two Floor tumbling passes. In fact, her skill level is so high, her difficulty scores are knowingly artificially low - FIG chose not to rate some of her Difficulty properly for dubious reasons not worth getting into here.
So when you see someone argue that Biles isn’t GOAT because of [grievance issued against Biles based on things that happened in 2021]”, understand the label of GOAT for Biles was settled years ago. The last four years have been Biles continuing to separate herself from past champions, current peers, and making it tougher for future gymnasts to challenge her for the title.
Simone Biles joined the senior international gymnastics circuit in 2013. And she’s been the best gymnast in the world since.
The crown jewel of Artistic Gymnastics is the All-Around competition in the World Championships and Olympics. You have to be world-class in all four apparatuses to even qualify. And because the skill sets in all four are so different, penalties for mistakes are so severe, injuries are so frequent, and the window of peak performance is so narrow, it is rare for a gymnast to win the All-Around at the Worlds more than once, and rare for a gymnast to compete in more than one Olympics.
Simone Biles has won the All-Around at Worlds five times. Add her Olympics All-Around gold in 2016, and Biles has won the crown jewel six times.
Biles has also won apparatus gold at Worlds on Floor, Beam, and Vault, and in 2019 she won all three, This would be like leading the NBA in points, rebounds, and assists in the same season. Here’s a recap of her golds at the Worlds and Olympics before Tokyo:
2013 Worlds: All-Around, Floor
2014 Worlds: All-Around, Floor, Beam
2015 Worlds: All-Around, Floor, Beam
2016 Olympics: All-Around, Floor, Vault
2017: (Did not compete, contemplated retirement)
2018 Worlds: All-Around, Floor, Vault
2019 Worlds: All-Around, Floor, Beam, Vault
2020: (no Olympics or Worlds due to Covid)
(Biles has also won three silvers and three bronzes in apparatuses at Worlds. But the list was getting kinda long.)
Had Biles retired after the 2016 Olympics, she would have left the sport as unquestionably the greatest who ever did it. No one in the sport’s history can match the difficulty of her routines, her excellence in execution, and the length of time she has been at the top. Biles took a year off after Rio, and when she returned she won Worlds again. And again.
The Worlds have been staged 49 times, going back to 1903. Only 8 women have won at least five career individual gold medals in the Worlds via all-around or individual apparatus. Biles has won 15. No one else is in double digits. Add Biles’s four team golds, and she has double the gold of any other competitor.
In fact, if you split Biles’s career into “Birth-To-Rio” and “After Rio”, Birth-To-Rio Biles would be the most decorated gymnast ever, and After Rio Biles would be the third-most decorated, behind Birth-To-Rio Biles and Svetlana Khorkina.
Another measure of an elite gymnast is eponymous skills. When you successfully complete a skill no one else has done before in a top competition, the skill gets named after you. It is a big honor, your name gets written into the sport’s history, and your name gets called out when a subsequent gymnast hits the skill.
It is very rare for a world-class gymnast to have one eponymous skill by the time they retire. Biles has four: a Beam dismount, a Vault, and two Floor tumbling passes. In fact, her skill level is so high, her difficulty scores are knowingly artificially low - FIG chose not to rate some of her Difficulty properly for dubious reasons not worth getting into here.
So when you see someone argue that Biles isn’t GOAT because of [grievance issued against Biles based on things that happened in 2021]”, understand the label of GOAT for Biles was settled years ago. The last four years have been Biles continuing to separate herself from past champions, current peers, and making it tougher for future gymnasts to challenge her for the title.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Simone Biles has the entire world talking about mental health rn. That’s a good thing. Wasn’t her intent, she was just doing what was best in the moment.
She has been an outspoken advocate in the post-Nassar years and I would love to see her embrace being open about her struggles in the way Osaka and Phelps have been.
If she wants that. She doesn’t owe anyone anything.
She has been an outspoken advocate in the post-Nassar years and I would love to see her embrace being open about her struggles in the way Osaka and Phelps have been.
If she wants that. She doesn’t owe anyone anything.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
the logical part of my brain acknowledges that someone this "Deep" into her career doesn't just fold for the sake of it.
the cynical part thinks there is no better time to ride a "wave" that'll take you well beyond what is likely/could be your final olympics, in terms of future gains.
id bet on the first tho
the cynical part thinks there is no better time to ride a "wave" that'll take you well beyond what is likely/could be your final olympics, in terms of future gains.
id bet on the first tho
supermike80
Footballguy
People having different opinions about things like this isn't new. It isn't different or unusual and has existed forever. So your difficulty with the taking of sides seems misplaced.
encaitar
Footballguy
Well said by Michael Phelps here. I've enjoyed his perspective in interviews this year, but this clearly takes the cake. He's truly a guy that young inspiring athletes should look up to...... needs to shave that awful beard though.
This is correct.
And to add to it, the vast majority of people in the world don't know the whole story and shouldn't even be voicing their opinion. No one cares. You don't know her. She doesn't know you.
This really shouldn't be the top story on the news. What should be is how skateboarding and fencing is in the Olympics but bowling isn't.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
In the moment, at least, I think she did the right thing for her team. She was having the “twisties”/“yips”, whatever you want to call it. She was looking lost in her jump. I think US would have fallen below silver if she kept going.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Why do people keep comparing physical injuries to mental issues like this? That seems to really be not understanding this.
I don't think it's not understanding. I think it's discussing the two. Most people with sports are way more familiar with physical issues. And how physical issues compare and are different from mental issues is something I think that's worth talking about.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
But to highlight Kirk Gibson as some sort of comparison clearly suggests (at least to me) that he was great for fighting through a physical injury and therefore criticizing Biles for not doing the same. Maybe that's not what you or others have meant when you've cited examples of people playing through physical injury. But I just don't see how they're relevant at all to this discussion - except to point out that this is completely different.
Chemical X
Footballguy
yeah, why isn’t bowling a sport? also, why is basketball in the summer olympics and not winter? i mean, curling is a sport. fishing could be a sport too, it is called sport fishing. we need boat racing, yachting. foosball.
the rover
Footballguy
I figure that most of the people that have tried to turn this into a story about whether she's a hero or a quitter follow gymnastics about as much as I do: a couple days every four years. So far, I haven't seen a single gymnast be critical of her decision, so I'll defer to the people that have some experience and actually know what they're talking about, and not the Ben Shapiros of the world.
Chemical X
Footballguy
beard removes some of the gooberism, but i already couldn’t understand him speaking and now i can’t even see his lips.
Chemical X
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I was trying to come up with a response on this topic, and couldn't. You said everything that I thought I might've, but I couldn't have worded it so well.
Not at all. I'm saying Gibson was an example of a physical injury. As was Jordan with the flu. I didn't criticize Biles. How that compares to a mental issue and how people see them both in how they're similar and how they're different is helpful for discussion. At least they were to me.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
She’s dominated gymnastics for the past eight years, which is an eternity in that sport. This is like if Brady hadn’t been able to complete last year’s Super Bowl or Jordan had pulled out of the ‘98 Finals. Her legacy as the GOAT is secure
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Fair enoughNot at all. I'm saying Gibson was an example of a physical injury. As was Jordan with the flu. I didn't criticize Biles. How that compares to a mental issue and how people see them both in how they're similar and how they're different is helpful for discussion. At least they were to me.
Dez89
Footballguy
I don't believe that's true. It's true that they didn't need her vault to win, but they didn't know that in the moment.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
I think it's actually more than that. How impressive is it that after she pulled out, she didn't sit in the locker room and watch the rest of the competition on CCTV, she didn't sit on the bench with her head bowed and covered by a towel. She visibly and actively cheered on her teammates just as she would have been had she been the fifth member of the team still competing. That took grit and yes courage rarely seen in a championship caliber athlete.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Obviously there is a different component because it wasn’t in the middle of a game or series or season, but let’s not forget that Jordan retired during the height of his dominance to go play baseball for a year because of his mental exhaustion.
bigbottom
Footballguy
To me, her statement is closer to “I’m blanking out mid-air and I might end up paralyzing myself.”
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Shouldn't be criticized but the praise has been over the top.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
I get it, but I don't like that she embroidered a goat on her clothing and this happened. If you're going to make that claim yourself, you better back it up.