Slight downgrade to all possession / redzone WR's? (1 Viewer)

[Weiner Dog]

This ruling will have little bearing on guys like Steve Smith, Torry Holt, Wes Welker, etc, but one would have to think players like Fitz, Braylon, Colstson, etc will be negatively affect, right??

link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3325273

• A recommendation to eliminate force-out decisions on pass completions near the sidelines was approved. Now, officials will only have to decide whether a receiver landed in bounds or not. The intended result is more consistency.

 

[tombonneau]

So the Kellen Winslow Rule passed, huh? God bless knee-jerk rulebook revisionism.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

This is stupid and is going to result in more injuries.

All a defensive player has to do now is catch a guy in mid-air and throw him out of bounds.

 

[IndyHavoc]

Man, they better really have something in this rule about being basically picked-up / held-up and bodily thrown/pushed out of bounds. With the repeal of the rule, am I the only one that see's big corners or outside covering LB's just grabbing a WR about 5 yrds from the sidelines and tossing them out of bounds; result now => no catch.

Durn you Andy....beat me to it.

 

[Weiner Dog]

This is stupid and is going to result in more injuries.All a defensive player has to do now is catch a guy in mid-air and throw him out of bounds.

My first thought as well. The NFL will need to determine if a guy was "pushed" or "picked-up and thrown" out of bounds. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.From one judgment call to the next.

 

[LordOpie]

yippie! I always hated the rule. This will make hard-hitting CBs and Safeties that much more valuable in the league.

But yeah, how does someone like me compensate who doesn't follow the game so closely to know which WRs make their money on jump-ball catches at the edge? I don't suppose there's a list of such WRs?

 

[radiohead417]

Is it really that often that a defensive player is going to pick up and throw a guy out of bounds? I think it's a good rule.

 

[Maroney=Speed]

Will the fade route inside the 5 yard line, not happen as much? Moss, M.Jones down?

 

[tombonneau]

I agree that this rule is going to end up going badly. When it comes to the sideline, DBs will no longer have to play the ball. They will just have to play the receiver and the second he touches the ball push him.

It's not the force out rule was consistently being called badly. That Winslow play is the only one in recent memory, and guess what, it's still incomplete with this rule enforced.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Is it really that often that a defensive player is going to pick up and throw a guy out of bounds? I think it's a good rule.

It is now. And all he needs to do is carry him out of bounds. Doesn't even need to be pick & throw.If the receiver doesn't get feet/knee/bum/whatever down, he's not in. As far as I understand anyway.

 

[LordOpie]

Picked up is a far simpler 'judgement' call... just use travelling like in the NBA.

 

[3C's]

Is it really that often that a defensive player is going to pick up and throw a guy out of bounds? I think it's a good rule.

It is now. And all he needs to do is carry him out of bounds. Doesn't even need to be pick & throw.If the receiver doesn't get feet/knee/bum/whatever down, he's not in. As far as I understand anyway.

If I heard correctly, the DB can't "pick up/carry" the receiver out of bounds. Pushing out would be ok though.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I think the rule change that should have occured was force out could have been reveiwed via instant replay.

I think it is silly that there will be no foce out rule. It restricts athleticism from WR's.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Picked up is a far simpler 'judgement' call... just use travelling like in the NBA.

...but it's still a judgement call.

 

[drizzt88]

With this and the defensive helmet speakers I think the league is trying to give the defense some help. Receivers already have a huge advantage over the D-backs, so I don't think giving defensive players this one thing is really that bad of an idea, is it?

 

[FUBAR]

Stupid question of the day:

Wouldn't "carrying the WR out of bounds" be considered interference?

ETA: not to mention, practically impossible, unless already on the sideline?

 

[teamroc]

Pick up the WR? *lol*

First of all, you can't touch the WR until the ball GETS THERE. So the time between him catching it and the time he touches the ground (.2 seconds) the DB is going to run over, grab his legs, and carry him out of bounds. If DBs were that good, they'd just, you know, intercept the ball.

Hey Billy, see that 4'3 40 WR, 6'4, 215 lbs, running full speed at you? Okay when he catches the ball, pick him up and toss him 5 yards out of bounds okay?

Good luck Billy!

DBs can barely keep up with WRs, let alone put wrestling moves on them during the .2 seconds it takes them to tap their feet.

 

[roadkill1292]

I don't remember receivers being carried out of bounds in the days prior to the force out rule. Have the QB throw it lower. Worked for Johnny U and Raymond Berry. If they can't hook up like that, then the DB is doing his job.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Pick up the WR? *lol* First of all, you can't touch the WR until the ball GETS THERE. So the time between him catching it and the time he touches the ground (.2 seconds) the DB is going to run over, grab his legs, and carry him out of bounds. If DBs were that good, they'd just, you know, intercept the ball. Hey Billy, see that 4'3 40 WR, 6'4, 215 lbs, running full speed at you? Okay when he catches the ball, pick him up and toss him 5 yards out of bounds okay?Good luck Billy!DBs can barely keep up with WRs, let alone put wrestling moves on them during the .2 seconds it takes them to tap their feet.

I agree with the pick up the WR thing, but this really makes the fade route a lot less appealing to an offensive. I mean anytime a player is getting a ball lofted to them near the sideline and he is to catch it at its highest point (usually by jumping) I gurantee defenses will be working on playing the ball but if you are not going to get it push him out of bounce instantly in hopes that he does not get both feet in bounds since there is no force out rule anymore.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Wow...dumb dumb dumb.

 

[LordOpie]

Picked up is a far simpler 'judgement' call... just use travelling like in the NBA.

...but it's still a judgement call.

I don't see how it's a judgement call.Let's say the rule is something like... You can lift and carry the WR, but if you're still doing it on the second step, that's a completion and down at the spot.This play is something that's supposed to be happening on the very edge of the playing field. If a DB gets two steps involved, then clearly the play happened well within bounds.

 

[uwgb96]

I'm glad they did this. You take a chance if you throw the ball that close to the sideline. If the receiver can't get his feet down inbounds, then it shouldn't be a catch. Why should that be a judgment call?

 

[LordOpie]

Pick up the WR? *lol* First of all, you can't touch the WR until the ball GETS THERE. So the time between him catching it and the time he touches the ground (.2 seconds) the DB is going to run over, grab his legs, and carry him out of bounds. If DBs were that good, they'd just, you know, intercept the ball. Hey Billy, see that 4'3 40 WR, 6'4, 215 lbs, running full speed at you? Okay when he catches the ball, pick him up and toss him 5 yards out of bounds okay?Good luck Billy!DBs can barely keep up with WRs, let alone put wrestling moves on them during the .2 seconds it takes them to tap their feet.

People are making this more difficult than it really is.

 

[Avery]

According to Atlanta Falcons president Rich McKay, co-chairman of the competition committee, the "force out" penalty was only called 15 times last year, so I think some are overstating the impact of the rule change.

I know some will say that without the rule, the technique will be used more often but IMO it's far easier said than done. As someone already said, you still can't hit the WR after 5 yards until he the ball arrives so it would require ridiculous timing and coordination for a DB to be waiting for the WR where the ball will arrive and in that spit second when the ball gets there, pick up a fast athletic player, who is trying to avoid you, and carry him out of bounds before his feet touch the ground.

Come on.

It's hard enough for the DBs to tackle some of these WRs.

 

[AB in DC]

This is stupid and is going to result in more injuries.All a defensive player has to do now is catch a guy in mid-air and throw him out of bounds.

You've got to be kidding. How is anyone going to "catch" 200+ pounds of receiver without letting a single body part touch the ground?

 

[LordOpie]

I think the bottomline is...

If a DB can catch and carry a WR out of bounds, then he'd being going for the interception.

Isn't it that simple?

 

[nightmare]

About time. stupid rule. The ref had to decide if the WR would've come down in bounds.

Carry the WR out of bounds? get real.

 

[jwb]

I don't remember receivers being carried out of bounds in the days prior to the force out rule. Have the QB throw it lower. Worked for Johnny U and Raymond Berry. If they can't hook up like that, then the DB is doing his job.

Agreed. I always thought that "sideline jump ball" was kind of a cheap play. I like the rule change.

 

[trader jake]

Great rule change.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Pick up the WR? *lol* First of all, you can't touch the WR until the ball GETS THERE. So the time between him catching it and the time he touches the ground (.2 seconds) the DB is going to run over, grab his legs, and carry him out of bounds. If DBs were that good, they'd just, you know, intercept the ball. Hey Billy, see that 4'3 40 WR, 6'4, 215 lbs, running full speed at you? Okay when he catches the ball, pick him up and toss him 5 yards out of bounds okay?Good luck Billy!DBs can barely keep up with WRs, let alone put wrestling moves on them during the .2 seconds it takes them to tap their feet.

People are making this more difficult than it really is.

This is stupid and is going to result in more injuries.All a defensive player has to do now is catch a guy in mid-air and throw him out of bounds.

You've got to be kidding. How is anyone going to "catch" 200+ pounds of receiver without letting a single body part touch the ground?

Seriously? It's like you guys have never seen a cornerback in tight coverage before.

 

[Avery]

Pick up the WR? *lol* First of all, you can't touch the WR until the ball GETS THERE. So the time between him catching it and the time he touches the ground (.2 seconds) the DB is going to run over, grab his legs, and carry him out of bounds. If DBs were that good, they'd just, you know, intercept the ball. Hey Billy, see that 4'3 40 WR, 6'4, 215 lbs, running full speed at you? Okay when he catches the ball, pick him up and toss him 5 yards out of bounds okay?Good luck Billy!DBs can barely keep up with WRs, let alone put wrestling moves on them during the .2 seconds it takes them to tap their feet.

People are making this more difficult than it really is.

This is stupid and is going to result in more injuries.All a defensive player has to do now is catch a guy in mid-air and throw him out of bounds.

You've got to be kidding. How is anyone going to "catch" 200+ pounds of receiver without letting a single body part touch the ground?

Seriously? It's like you guys have never seen a cornerback in tight coverage before.

For me, it's not the "tight coverage" but it's the "picking him up as soon as he catches the ball and carrying him out of bounds before he touches the ground" thing that gives me pause.

 

[massraider]

Good. The rule book is already way too slanted to the offense. This is a minor change, I doubt it'll affect the game too much, it just takes out one of the more difficult judgment calls a ref has to make.

 

[teamroc]

Pick up the WR? *lol* First of all, you can't touch the WR until the ball GETS THERE. So the time between him catching it and the time he touches the ground (.2 seconds) the DB is going to run over, grab his legs, and carry him out of bounds. If DBs were that good, they'd just, you know, intercept the ball. Hey Billy, see that 4'3 40 WR, 6'4, 215 lbs, running full speed at you? Okay when he catches the ball, pick him up and toss him 5 yards out of bounds okay?Good luck Billy!DBs can barely keep up with WRs, let alone put wrestling moves on them during the .2 seconds it takes them to tap their feet.

I agree with the pick up the WR thing, but this really makes the fade route a lot less appealing to an offensive. I mean anytime a player is getting a ball lofted to them near the sideline and he is to catch it at its highest point (usually by jumping) I gurantee defenses will be working on playing the ball but if you are not going to get it push him out of bounce instantly in hopes that he does not get both feet in bounds since there is no force out rule anymore.

I agree that DBs will add the "shove play" into their options. But you still have to time it perfectly. You still have to be a little late (and unable to go for the ball). And guys already shove the WRs trying to knock the ball out. You can't rely on "I'm going to carry him out of bounds every time they throw the ball to him". It's beyond silly. In some cases DBs will try to shove the guy out (AFTER he catches it) but they already do that. I dont expect a "huge rash of injuries" like some are predicting. It's absurd.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

For me, it's not the "tight coverage" but it's the "picking him up as soon as he catches the ball and carrying him out of bounds before he touches the ground" thing that gives me pause.

I'm not talking about picking up a guy that hasn't left his feet to make a catch.The idea is that a lot of guys actually jump to catch sometimes. It even happens near the sidelines.

Yup, I've seen it.

In those cases, it's not that difficult for a guy next to him to put a shoulder into his gut/hip and shove him from two yards in to five yards out of bounds.

 

[TLEF316]

It's not the force out rule was consistently being called badly. That Winslow play is the only one in recent memory, and guess what, it's still incomplete with this rule enforced.

The Jets got screwed on one at Cleveland 2 seasons ago. It was bad. Baker got shoved 8 feet, costing NY a game tying TD.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Will the fade route inside the 5 yard line, not happen as much? Moss, M.Jones down?

Yep, i moved him from my 79th WR down to 84.

 

[FUBAR]

For me, it's not the "tight coverage" but it's the "picking him up as soon as he catches the ball and carrying him out of bounds before he touches the ground" thing that gives me pause.

I'm not talking about picking up a guy that hasn't left his feet to make a catch.The idea is that a lot of guys actually jump to catch sometimes. It even happens near the sidelines.

Yup, I've seen it.

In those cases, it's not that difficult for a guy next to him to put a shoulder into his gut/hip and shove him from two yards in to five yards out of bounds.

You really expect a DB to take a WR, even if he's in the air, 21 feet, without touching the ground. That DB is one tough mofo. If they can do that, let them. I still think in order to do that, interference will be called.Near the sidelines, like within a foot or two, I can see, but that's it.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

For me, it's not the "tight coverage" but it's the "picking him up as soon as he catches the ball and carrying him out of bounds before he touches the ground" thing that gives me pause.

I'm not talking about picking up a guy that hasn't left his feet to make a catch.The idea is that a lot of guys actually jump to catch sometimes. It even happens near the sidelines.

Yup, I've seen it.

In those cases, it's not that difficult for a guy next to him to put a shoulder into his gut/hip and shove him from two yards in to five yards out of bounds.

You really expect a DB to take a WR, even if he's in the air, 21 feet, without touching the ground. That DB is one tough mofo. If they can do that, let them. I still think in order to do that, interference will be called.Near the sidelines, like within a foot or two, I can see, but that's it.

Uh. No. 2 x 3 = 6ft. The "five yards out" was just to be silly. Yes, I'm talking about near the sidelines.But people seem to think I'm saying that I expect Champ Bailey to throw Calvin Johnson over his shoulder and run like Forrest Gump with Lieutenant Dan from inside the hashmarks to the lockerrooms.

 

[Patoons]

Picked up is a far simpler 'judgement' call... just use travelling like in the NBA.

Traveling isn't exactly a judgment call.

 

[FUBAR]

For me, it's not the "tight coverage" but it's the "picking him up as soon as he catches the ball and carrying him out of bounds before he touches the ground" thing that gives me pause.

I'm not talking about picking up a guy that hasn't left his feet to make a catch.The idea is that a lot of guys actually jump to catch sometimes. It even happens near the sidelines.

Yup, I've seen it.

In those cases, it's not that difficult for a guy next to him to put a shoulder into his gut/hip and shove him from two yards in to five yards out of bounds.

You really expect a DB to take a WR, even if he's in the air, 21 feet, without touching the ground. That DB is one tough mofo. If they can do that, let them. I still think in order to do that, interference will be called.Near the sidelines, like within a foot or two, I can see, but that's it.

Uh. No. 2 x 3 = 6ft. The "five yards out" was just to be silly. Yes, I'm talking about near the sidelines.But people seem to think I'm saying that I expect Champ Bailey to throw Calvin Johnson over his shoulder and run like Forrest Gump with Lieutenant Dan from inside the hashmarks to the lockerrooms.

he could probably do that, just not in the second CJ is airborne. Try it at home, have a person roughly your size jump up when you are trying to play the ball, you catch him and carry him a few feet. It's not that easy. I do not believe this rule allows DBs to play the player without it being interference.

 

[Christo]

For me, it's not the "tight coverage" but it's the "picking him up as soon as he catches the ball and carrying him out of bounds before he touches the ground" thing that gives me pause.

I'm not talking about picking up a guy that hasn't left his feet to make a catch.The idea is that a lot of guys actually jump to catch sometimes. It even happens near the sidelines.

Yup, I've seen it.

In those cases, it's not that difficult for a guy next to him to put a shoulder into his gut/hip and shove him from two yards in to five yards out of bounds.

So?Great rule change. If the QB can't put the ball in an area so the WR can get his feet down before the momentum of the the DB carries the WR out of bounds, that's the QB's fault.

 

[Christo]

Picked up is a far simpler 'judgement' call... just use travelling like in the NBA.

Traveling isn't exactly a judgment call.

You could have fooled me.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Great rule change. If the QB can't put the ball in an area so the WR can get his feet down before the momentum of the the DB carries the WR out of bounds, that's the QB's fault.

I agree from that standpoint. I just think it's gonna get guys hurt.I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

It seems to me that most of the rules changes made recently have favored the offense. I like seeing some balance shifted back to the other side of the ball.

 

[The Hardline]

Will the fade route inside the 5 yard line, not happen as much? Moss, M.Jones down?

Yep, i moved him from my 79th WR down to 84.

BMTI

 

[Walter Slovotsky]

It's not the force out rule was consistently being called badly. That Winslow play is the only one in recent memory, and guess what, it's still incomplete with this rule enforced.

The Jets got screwed on one at Cleveland 2 seasons ago. It was bad. Baker got shoved 8 feet, costing NY a game tying TD.

This is why this is a good change. Under this year's rule, the Jets wouldn't have got screwed. They would have just lost, and it would have been a great job by the defensive player to keep Baker making the catch in bounds.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I'm glad they did this. You take a chance if you throw the ball that close to the sideline. If the receiver can't get his feet down inbounds, then it shouldn't be a catch. Why should that be a judgment call?

I always hated this force-out rule. It enables teams to too easily use the sideline on timing patterns to all but eliminate coverage coming from the receiver's opposite side. Those quick outs will be tougher to complete.

 

[gianmarco]

For me, it's not the "tight coverage" but it's the "picking him up as soon as he catches the ball and carrying him out of bounds before he touches the ground" thing that gives me pause.

I'm not talking about picking up a guy that hasn't left his feet to make a catch.The idea is that a lot of guys actually jump to catch sometimes. It even happens near the sidelines.

Yup, I've seen it.

In those cases, it's not that difficult for a guy next to him to put a shoulder into his gut/hip and shove him from two yards in to five yards out of bounds.

You really expect a DB to take a WR, even if he's in the air, 21 feet, without touching the ground. That DB is one tough mofo. If they can do that, let them. I still think in order to do that, interference will be called.Near the sidelines, like within a foot or two, I can see, but that's it.

Uh. No. 2 x 3 = 6ft. The "five yards out" was just to be silly. Yes, I'm talking about near the sidelines.But people seem to think I'm saying that I expect Champ Bailey to throw Calvin Johnson over his shoulder and run like Forrest Gump with Lieutenant Dan from inside the hashmarks to the lockerrooms.

he could probably do that, just not in the second CJ is airborne. Try it at home, have a person roughly your size jump up when you are trying to play the ball, you catch him and carry him a few feet. It's not that easy. I do not believe this rule allows DBs to play the player without it being interference.

Man, you're right. I got my mom almost 2 feet and that was as far as we could go. She's hurting right now. I wouldn't recommend trying this to anyone else unless you're a professional. Per my home experiment, I'm ok with the new rule.

 

[LordOpie]

How many WRs will this actually affect?

 

[Tau837]

I agree that this rule is going to end up going badly. When it comes to the sideline, DBs will no longer have to play the ball. They will just have to play the receiver and the second he touches the ball push him.

So? Why not make a rule (or in this case repeal a rule) to reward the defense for a change? And at the same time remove a judgment call that can be difficult to apply correctly and consistently.I like this move. As far as downgrading any WRs because of this, I think its effect will be negligible.