I think Leshoure will do really well. Best becomes the Lions version of Bush. As the season goes on Leshoure will get more and more of the carries.
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So after 6 Rnds What RB Rookie has the best situation (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jacobo_moses
- Start date
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Why do people keep insisting that Thomas has an amazing situation, when we haven't gone through free agency yet? Does anyone here really believe that he's going to be handed the starting job, without some competition?
Cato
Footballguy
Yes thank you, for the voice of reason. As free agency hasn't happened yet. I don't think it completely removes DeAngelo Williams or other RBs from the Miami equation. (unless DeAngelo goes to Denver? What a crazy year.)I would suggest taking Thomas over Ingram is straight up crazy talk, and suggests either trying to make the "hero" pick, or rookie draft smoke screening. The hero pick, is sometimes right, but the odds don't favor it. Chris Johnson had to fight Lendale White. Adrian Peterson had to compete with Chester Taylor for touches. Not saying Ingram has their potential, but talent should eventually fight it's way to the top. Not sure why we're double guessing if Ingram has the capability to do the same.
Clifford
Footballguy
I think Ingram starts for them all year, but the other backs will be involved. If one of Thomas or Bush are either injured or gone, I could see a rookie campaign similar to caddilac Williams. I think 1500 and 10 is a very real possibility if everything breaks right for him.
I'm high on Ingram's potential in that offense. As has been said in this thread, Ivory and Thomas posted excellent numbers in the offense. A back of Ingram's caliber should light it up. If I had to make a prediction for the coming season, I see Ingram taking the lead role with 15-20 touches a game, with Thomas getting 10-15 per game. I would anticipate Thomas keeping the receiving role if Bush doesn't return (which I don't think he will).
Helu ended up in the exact system he needed to to become a productive starter in the NFL. Will he? I don't know. I do know that he has the drive and character to not waste away the opportunity without trying. He's a guy that we'll know the full value of within the end of the year. If he doesn't secure the starting job by the end of the season, I don't think he'll ever take it. Needless to say, my hopes of grabbing him in the mid to late 2nd have vanished.
Helu ended up in the exact system he needed to to become a productive starter in the NFL. Will he? I don't know. I do know that he has the drive and character to not waste away the opportunity without trying. He's a guy that we'll know the full value of within the end of the year. If he doesn't secure the starting job by the end of the season, I don't think he'll ever take it. Needless to say, my hopes of grabbing him in the mid to late 2nd have vanished.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
I agree with this. I think the Lions have realized that Best is not an every down back. His frame is not going to handle the load. If you are looking for points this year, my best guess is:1. Ingram2. Leshoure3. HeluHelu is underrated and is going to surprise people. He was in a time share at Nebraska with Rex Burkhead, who had a different skill set. I think he will be in a time share with Torain in Washington.
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
Still waiting on Cecil Lammey to comment. I really think you can make a case for Ingram,LeShore,Ryan Williams, and Thomas for the first RB off the board in a Rookie Draft.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Very probable now that the NFL will use 2010 FA rules, making DeAngelo an RFA for Carolina and he won't go anywhere.
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
THanks for Jeff for the comment. That's a good point.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Why wouldn't Pierre Thomas be there? Didn't they just sign him to a 4 year/$12 mil extension?
Cato
Footballguy
Good point, I guess with all the CBA uncertainty I've been in denial about DeAngelo's situation and therefore my personal Jonathan Stewart hype train coming to a halt. (at least temporarily.) hmmm...
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Did they? If so, I missed that one. I just remembered all the previous discussion about where he might end up next year.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
3/3/2011: Signed a four-year, $11.2 million contract. The deal contains $4.2 million guaranteed, including a first-year roster bonus of $2.7 million, Thomas' 2011 base salary, and $860,000 of his second-year salary. Annual $100,000 workout bonuses are available in years two through four. Undisclosed salary escalators are also available in the final three years. 2011: $640,000, 2012: $2.16 million, 2013: $2.1 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus), 2014: $2.5 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus), 2015: Free Agen
BigJim®
Footballguy
Yeah, that extension was a real head scratcher for me, since Pierre was injured all last year, and seemed to be in Payton's dog house. Yet they did a 4-year extension before the draft or FA.
identikit
Footballguy
Despite this, there was a lot of talk about Pierre being moved, even by FBG staffers (to NE IIRC).Doubt that happens now, what with the Vereen and Ingram picks. Not to mention with Reggie's expected departure.
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Was that announced?
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
If the stay is lifted again, free agency will begin right away under those rules.
correct cuz those are the default rules when there's no CBA in place.
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
Does anyone else feel less entusiastic about this rookie class with the Lockout and everything? I really think that the Mini-Camps and the OTA's help get the rookies ready for the season. And at this point best case scenario is we can resume these things when we get a new CBA which will be late May or Early June at the very earliest. I'm just not as hyped about this year. Really sucks. 
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
Does anyone else feel less entusiastic about this rookie class with the Lockout and everything? I really think that the Mini-Camps and the OTA's help get the rookies ready for the season. And at this point best case scenario is we can resume these things when we get a new CBA which will be late May or Early June at the very earliest. I'm just not as hyped about this year. Really sucks.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Pierre Thomas extension is mild but Reggie Bush tweeting out G'Bye NO was pretty telling.
If Ingram is s talented as we think then he will rise to the top quickly and in a season or two folks talking up Thomas or anyone else on this roster could look foolish. They traded up to get Ingram so I have to imagine that they have big plans for him.
I would like to fire of a warning to some of the folks looking at the Miami Dolphins situation, myself included. Just because they took a RB in the 2nd doesn't mean they won't go out and sign an Addai, Bradshaw, or DeAngelo possibly. Lot of mystery around the lockout right now so my advice if you have a top rookiepick is go with what you really know. I think this is a great year to trade away picks for proven players.
If Ingram is s talented as we think then he will rise to the top quickly and in a season or two folks talking up Thomas or anyone else on this roster could look foolish. They traded up to get Ingram so I have to imagine that they have big plans for him.
I would like to fire of a warning to some of the folks looking at the Miami Dolphins situation, myself included. Just because they took a RB in the 2nd doesn't mean they won't go out and sign an Addai, Bradshaw, or DeAngelo possibly. Lot of mystery around the lockout right now so my advice if you have a top rookiepick is go with what you really know. I think this is a great year to trade away picks for proven players.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
You have had solid posts throughout this tread JM, good points all the way around.Does anyone else feel less entusiastic about this rookie class with the Lockout and everything? I really think that the Mini-Camps and the OTA's help get the rookies ready for the season. And at this point best case scenario is we can resume these things when we get a new CBA which will be late May or Early June at the very earliest. I'm just not as hyped about this year. Really sucks.
greggorymac
Footballguy
On the bright side, RB is one of the easiest plug and play positions and doesn't have that steep of a learning curve compared to other positions. The hardest part to learn (IMHO) is pass protection. Incoming RBs have it a little easier than other incoming skill position players.You have had solid posts throughout this tread JM, good points all the way around.Does anyone else feel less entusiastic about this rookie class with the Lockout and everything? I really think that the Mini-Camps and the OTA's help get the rookies ready for the season. And at this point best case scenario is we can resume these things when we get a new CBA which will be late May or Early June at the very earliest. I'm just not as hyped about this year. Really sucks.
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
I agree with you MOP. Great year to trade away picks for proven players. I think outside of AJ Green or possibly Ingram it would be wise for owners to trade picks for proven current players.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
I read that Addai accepted a one-year deal from the Colts.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Well, because Bush said he was gone, for starters. And it's economics 101. Are they really going to tie up that much money for a role player? No. Yes, they could restructure, but only if Bush wants to, and his tweet didn't seem to suggest he did. Sure, Payton would like to keep him for a nice price, and they might, but I'd say it's equally likely that he's elsewhere next year.
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greggorymac
Footballguy
I definitely think Payton has a "role" for him, but Bush now knows that he will never have the opportunity to ultimately be "the guy" in NO. It all comes down to a matter of pride and if Bush is willing to swallow that pride and take a lesser role and money than where he envisioned himself would be at this point in career.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
So he's an actor now?BT, excellent point but I think coach speak right now isn't worth much. Things were murky for Ray Rice and tons of other RBs who came into the NFL but once they start playing in games the cream usually rises to the top. Bush and Thomas were nowhere to be found last year and other years as well. No one is projecting 2,000 yds and 20 TDs, but I think Ingram hs a strong shot at 1,200/10TDs on the ground and then whatever he can o receiving as well. .
BigJim®
Footballguy
Not that I'm aware of any other info, but do you have a link to this? It was my understanding the result of a lifted stay would be no rules or FA restrictions, not carrying forward 2010 rules. Thought I'd read that the only thing contemplated under an expired CBA was that a 2011 draft would occur.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Just my understanding from the talking heads on NFL Network.
Basically, if the lockout is lifted, the owners can institute any rules they wish relating to FA. The could use the 2010 rules, but they run the risk of players challenging parts of it on anti-trust law (as is the case with implementing any other rule set other than no restrictions). They could also institute their last best offer or they could institute any rules they wanted to. That is the reason that players weren't signed IMMEDIATELY upon the judge lifting the lockout on Mon/Wed last week because they had not determined which rules they were going to implement. There seems to be a lot of thought that the owners would implement 2010 rules, and that is basically what players are suing over.This is also why the owners wanted the lockout lifted. If they implemented rules, they would be in trouble on any law suits, but maintain the integrity of the league for when a new CBA was reached. If they did not implement rules, they risked teams signing players and being in a position where they could not meet requirements of a new CBA because they may be over a new salary cap, etc. If there were no rules, but they didn't make offers to players because of fear of going over a future salary cap, they could be violating anti-trust laws. As much as fans want to see football, to me, it is extremely short sighted to want the lockout lifted before the CBA is in place. (Don't want to turn this thread into a lockout discussion, sorry!)
UnknownCoach
Footballguy
As others stated, its Ingram by nearly a landslide.
Great offense with great blocking. If weak talents like Pierre Thomas, Chris Ivory, and Mike Bell can look great in that offense, just imagine what a true top talent can do. Will he start in 2011 or 2012 depends on how quickly he learns. The system isnt the easiest to learn and blocking in the NFL is much different than college. He wont be stuck on the bench because of the other guys, only because he's a learning rookie.
Great offense with great blocking. If weak talents like Pierre Thomas, Chris Ivory, and Mike Bell can look great in that offense, just imagine what a true top talent can do. Will he start in 2011 or 2012 depends on how quickly he learns. The system isnt the easiest to learn and blocking in the NFL is much different than college. He wont be stuck on the bench because of the other guys, only because he's a learning rookie.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
BTM, Bush also stated he wanted to be in N.O and is willing to restructure his contract and this is more likely to happen then Peyton letting him walk away.
Bush is still very talented just not every down back. I could care less what Bush posted, he posted off of shear emotions of N.O trading up to draft the best running back in this draft that he knows will take the spot light off of him and achieve the things he could not, period.
It will not surprise me if Bush apologize for his statements.
Lol, at the knee jerking!!!
Bush is still very talented just not every down back. I could care less what Bush posted, he posted off of shear emotions of N.O trading up to draft the best running back in this draft that he knows will take the spot light off of him and achieve the things he could not, period.
It will not surprise me if Bush apologize for his statements.
Lol, at the knee jerking!!!
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
@MOP
Not my words but Peyton's, he's never been the type of coach to sugar coat anything. He's a straight shooter, he learned a lot while he was here in Dallas under Wild Bill. Bill is/was a straight shooter as a coach.
Not sure what you are reading from my post I never mention anything about Ingram's production. Just the fact that people have ALREADY written Bush off the squad and it this point it's FOOLISH!
Not my words but Peyton's, he's never been the type of coach to sugar coat anything. He's a straight shooter, he learned a lot while he was here in Dallas under Wild Bill. Bill is/was a straight shooter as a coach.
Not sure what you are reading from my post I never mention anything about Ingram's production. Just the fact that people have ALREADY written Bush off the squad and it this point it's FOOLISH!
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I hadn't heard the commish release the new rules. I think the stay was issued before he actually laid out the new rules.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Peyton plays for Indy.
Payton coaches in NO.
I think that if Bush does leave NO, then Indy actually would be a really interesting landing spot for him.
Payton coaches in NO.
I think that if Bush does leave NO, then Indy actually would be a really interesting landing spot for him.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Well, you're choosing to ignore Bush's comments because they were emotional. But you're choosing to not ignore Payton's comments even though there is nothing else a head coach would ever possibly say other than that - regardless of what his true intentions were. Bush's comments were either emotional or they weren't. Payton's comments were either purely coachspeak or they weren't. Neither of us knows, but you seem to be indicating that you do.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Yeah, I agree with all of that, but the bolded part is quite important. As I understood, there are no rules that automatically carry forward, and any rule the owners implement as a collective body which restricts player movement in any way I would think runs significant risk of anti trust accusation. IMHO taking the position that previously 'bargained' player restrictions under a defunct CBA would be a toxic move. Basically owners get to maintain their side of the bargain at the same time they are not on the hook for the financial revenue sharing that was the player's side of the bargain? I don't know how that flies.On your comments for no players signing immediately when the stay was lifted, I'm not reading that much into it. Any team stepping out of line with the NFL collective position would have been a big surprise to me. Luckily for them, the appellate court reinstated the stay so it never became contempt of a court order. However, while the stay is lifted, any prolonged failure by teams to sign free agents (including previously restricted FAs) too could subject teams and the NFL to anti trust allegations. Pure speculation on my part, but seems the only safe way for the league to proceed would be a completely free market system for players not under contract, and not giving effect to restrictive tags from the prior CBA. So basically, chaos.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
@BTM
Cause you guys are SPECULATING that he will not be a Saint as if it's a fact and it's not! It's that simple.
People are saying he will by in Indy, SF, GB, NY lol, he's still a Saint this is a fact.
Bush twitted 30 seconds after the pick....I'm thinking he was emotional.
We'll I did have dinner with Tupac and Elvis last night so I guess anything is possible
Cause you guys are SPECULATING that he will not be a Saint as if it's a fact and it's not! It's that simple.
People are saying he will by in Indy, SF, GB, NY lol, he's still a Saint this is a fact.
Bush twitted 30 seconds after the pick....I'm thinking he was emotional.
We'll I did have dinner with Tupac and Elvis last night so I guess anything is possible
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Speculating as if it's a fact? I said he might not be back. I said the chances of him being back are about equal to those that he won't. That's stating as a fact that he won't be back? You're the only I see here talking in absolutes.@BTMCause you guys are SPECULATING that he will not be a Saint as if it's a fact and it's not! It's that simple.People are saying he will by in Indy, SF, GB, NY lol, he's still a Saint this is a fact. Bush twitted 30 seconds after the pick....I'm thinking he was emotional.We'll I did have dinner with Tupac and Elvis last night so I guess anything is possible
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
That's about what I expected.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
He's part of the discussion, there's wrong with our argument. It belongs here cause it relates to Ingram.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
You and I are not going to agree and I'm ok with that.
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
Yes lets keep it to what Rookie RB landed in the best situation to make a fantasy impact in the first 1-3 yrs. I guess Ingram leads it. BUt I'd say that Ryan Williams is up there as long as AZ gets a Hasselback or Kolb in there at QB.
Boom Switch
Footballguy
I've seen enough of Bush in NO to think it really doesnt matter at all. Ingram is going to be the man, deal with it..B
loose circuits
Footballguy
thought maybe there was some good info in here that I could learn something, but I was wrong. Let's get the facts out, so we can move along to discussing the RB situations that matter
people may have been speculating about where PT would end up, but that was before he signed his deal. It's not a bad deal considering he has some great all around skills, but it is back-up money so it works out.
Nobody knows what is going to happen to Bush. Payton and Loomis are trying to smooth over Reggie. Eric Metcalf Jr shouldn't have his feelings hurt that the Saints drafted a RB. Completely different roles and I doubt he'll find a feature job anywhere.
If there isn't a new CBA, the owners would likely default to 2010 rules with no floor or cap. This has been mentioned a lot by media.
Now that is solved, can we move on to discussing Thomas, Leshoure, Helu, Vereen, Green and the other RB's that have a chance to contribute next season?
people may have been speculating about where PT would end up, but that was before he signed his deal. It's not a bad deal considering he has some great all around skills, but it is back-up money so it works out.
Nobody knows what is going to happen to Bush. Payton and Loomis are trying to smooth over Reggie. Eric Metcalf Jr shouldn't have his feelings hurt that the Saints drafted a RB. Completely different roles and I doubt he'll find a feature job anywhere.
If there isn't a new CBA, the owners would likely default to 2010 rules with no floor or cap. This has been mentioned a lot by media.
Now that is solved, can we move on to discussing Thomas, Leshoure, Helu, Vereen, Green and the other RB's that have a chance to contribute next season?
