So Cal Fires (4 Viewers)

[TripItUp]

If it is arson -- and yeah, that's a very real possibility -- it is overwhelmingly more likely to be some random crazy person or a kid or something than terrorism. In fact, I'll go further and say that we would 100% know if it were terrorism, because it would have been coordinated.

Not saying that you're wrong to see the vulnerability, just that it doesn't appear to be the issue here.

yeah, at this point, I'd imagine a terrorist group would have taken credit for it. I never meant to imply that terrorism was the only explanation, I just thought it was a plausible explanation.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

You’ve ignored every explanation that doesn’t fit your narrative.

A) I don't have a narrative

B) there has been no explanation, that's why I'm asking

Sure seems like you do

You’ve ignored every explanation until now.

 

[FairWarning]

My biggest concern is that this is an act of terrorism that could again happen in the future. Not just in Los Angeles, but anywhere really.

I think L.A. and California will make the adjustments necessary, that will be expensive, but I'm guess achievable.

But how do you adjust to wildfire terrorism?

I don't understand why you're concerned with terrorism. You've been asking about it, and have been answered about it, multiple times in this thread. But you keep bringing it up, and I don't understand why. What are you reading or hearing (and from who) that says terrorism is a legit concern in these fires?

If it’s arson or terrorism, that rules out climate change as the underlying cause.

It does?

The fact there has been no rain plays zero role in the extent of the fires?

The Mendocino fire was caused by a guy trying to kill a wasp nest. We gonna say climate played no role there because hitting a wasp nest with a hammer isn't a good idea?

I was trying to express the why some keep asking about arson or terrorism. It's not my perspective, but I've run into it a lot this week.

When you are talking to folks who keep talking about arson or terrorism, what often (eventually) comes out is they're don't believe climate change is a serious problem.

Climate change makes wildfires worse. Also, wildfires are often caused by arson.

Both of those statements are just true and in no way contradict one another.

Another true statement would be whether its arson, climate change, or a dude looking to smoke out a bees nest...all of those are supporting reasons why localities need to be extra prepared for catastrophic vulnerabilities.

Even if climate change played zero role in the start of the fire, it’s almost always part of what results.

Agree 100% that we have to be better prepared to fight these fires. It’s going to cost a lot of money to do that. Do you think US taxpayers are ready to pay for it?

I'd replace taxpayers with citizens, not sure why a taxpayer living in Georgia should subsidize the cost of living for someone in Florida or California. Citizens should need to be prepared to pay to protect their homes, otherwise they should purchase their homes elsewhere. And the answer is someone is paying for it whether it’s insurance or the damage and repair.

Perhaps because on net, taxpayers in Florida and California subsidize taxpayers Georgia every year?

Normally I would agree, but California had a big surplus a year ago, now it's a big deficit.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I don’t know if the devastation from these fires is going to be fully known or felt until things get fully put out and some of the damage can get evaluated. I know a couple people that live in the Palisades that lost their home—and they both tell me that it’s not that just a couple/few neighborhoods burned down—basically a large portion of the entire community (including the infrastructure) has been destroyed. It’s also been reported that rentals/homes for sale on the market have been going for above asking prices in the last couple of days due to the large number of displaced people. You’re also going to have issues now where these giant fire areas are going to become potential landslide areas when we finally get some rain due to the vegetation being burned off. My heart goes out to everybody affected by these fires. To those of whom might not be familiar with the Palisades—unfortunately—one the most iconic and architecturally significant homes in the LA area was there and burned down. Oddly enough—it was located next to the home of Tom Hanks—which somehow survived. I’ll post a video of the home (before the fire)—as it’s legit incredible. Sad to hear that it’s gone.

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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[TripItUp]

Did Mayor Karen Bass really cut the fire department budget? The answer gets tricky — Los Angeles Times

Employee raises and other expenses are expanding the Los Angeles Fire Department's budget. At the same time, the agency has had to scale back operations in recent months.

apple.news

This article is from the Los Angeles Times which has historically been the most prominent print media outlet for the city.

 

[SFBayDuck]

It’s interesting to see in real-time in this thread what happens when the algos drive you further and further down the echo chamber rabbit holes.

 

[fatness]

So far there are 16 known dead. Here's an article with information on who 8 of them were/are.

A father at the bedside of his son, a surfer and a woman who stayed behind with her beloved pets are among wildfire victims

 

[fatness]

Nearly 800 incarcerated firefighters deployed as LA battles wildfires

"The fire camp wages are meager, but are considered high-paying jobs behind bars, with CDCR firefighters earning between $5.80 and $10.24 a day and an additional $1 per hour when responding to active emergencies. When responding to disasters, they may earn $26.90 over a 24-hour shift"

 

[fatness]

The LA County FD put out a brush fire in a park in Azusa, and after that a guy was arrested for starting the fire. Azusa isn't currently in one of the wildfire zones. This is not the guy who got citizen-arrested the other day and was charged with a probation violation but not with arson.

 

[TripItUp]

Why Los Angeles was unprepared for this fire — The Washington Post

Several key factors left L.A. exposed to disaster.

apple.news

This article is from the Washington Post and I thought it was informative.

 

[Chaos34]

Watching a Studio City mansion burn to the ground right now. When the front of it collapsed it sent a billion embers up into the Hollywood Hills where my sis and her girls live. Sure enough in a matter of minutes a fire started a few thousand feet up the hill. They've felt safe enough until now but just started packing what can fit into three vehicles. Headed for Vegas.

 

[Chaos34]

Why Los Angeles was unprepared for this fire — The Washington Post

Several key factors left L.A. exposed to disaster.

apple.news

This article is from the Washington Post and I thought it was informative.

I'd like to read it but I don't want to subscribe to the WP for one article. I saw a blurb briefly with three bullet points. Not clearing the chaparral, water system and urban sprawl? LAFD is pretty decentralized with over 100 fire stations addressing the sprawl. If they cleared the very resilient chaparral in the Palisades nature would replace it with something more flammable. It also serves to prevent landslides. Or so I was told by a local fireman yesterday. Local being far out in the desert a couple hours from LA. The water system is designed to fight one to three house fires, not wildfires. That's what aerial support is for, and they just couldn't fly in those high winds. The hydrant system was drained and lost pressure due to not being able to refill the reservoirs fast enough. Tragic.

 

[Navin Johnson]

My biggest concern is that this is an act of terrorism that could again happen in the future. Not just in Los Angeles, but anywhere really.

I think L.A. and California will make the adjustments necessary, that will be expensive, but I'm guess achievable.

But how do you adjust to wildfire terrorism?

I don't understand why you're concerned with terrorism. You've been asking about it, and have been answered about it, multiple times in this thread. But you keep bringing it up, and I don't understand why. What are you reading or hearing (and from who) that says terrorism is a legit concern in these fires?

If it’s arson or terrorism, that rules out climate change as the underlying cause.

It still affects the degree of the damage caused

 

[Navin Johnson]

For all those that are wondering about uninsured places, I can attest to the local news just beginning to cover this phenomenon. To many people, their notices probably feel like weeks ago. I know when they cancelled our auto last January (because Farmer’s and then State Farm were both pulling out of California for very political reasons, which I know because I called an agent my brother knew from State Farm and he gave me the straight dope), I got a few months notice, but time flies and it feels like two weeks ago.

Anybody saying that insurers leaving California is due solely to climate change and not the regulatory apparatus of the state is— I think—incorrect in that assessment. I don’t know exactly how or why, but I did watch two separate long-ish videos on it and a lot had to do with the regulatory state here.

And I’m not looking to get political, but chalking this up to climate change and climate change alone (and there is indeed a large component of climate change that goes into the new prices and coverage) is erroneous.

Because if it is just climate change, there needs to be a policy change in how we regulate insurance. Telling people simply “tough ****—you’re now uninsurable and at risk” is not acceptable in any society, even the one with the most dynamist capitalistic outlook you can have. Your government will collapse if you attempt to do that because now you’re trying to tell people to live in theory rather than in practice, which has analogous cousins I don’t want to mention for fear of red meat and red herrings. But you can’t have a system predicated and based on totally uprooting people constantly while declaring their best investment null and void.

I just want to make sure my free market friends aren’t adopting this posture. The government will collapse (even if another reason is stated) if you do that. That’s my sincerely held belief that’s probably not too far off.

I have State Farm. Had it for 24 years at my current residence. My agent was my friend before I got insurance with her. When there were fires across the street from me, I called her and she said you’re good. Don’t worry about it. Then there was another fire across the canyon. Multiple 10M plus houses burned. Over the years there are more isolated incidents. Some huge fires. So far so good. I’m grandfathered in, in her words. No chance they drop me. I’ll be calling her in the next few weeks to ensure this is still the case.

In the grand scheme of things, your agent will have minimal input on whether you are dropped or not.

True. But as a 30 year friend, she will at least tell me the truth.

Used to be an actuary. I can assure you that if she is telling you there is zero chance you are dropped or that you are 'grandfathered in' she is just trying to keep you from worrying. Nobody is ever grandfathered in, and there is always a non-zero chance you will be dropped

 

[Alex P Keaton]

For all those that are wondering about uninsured places, I can attest to the local news just beginning to cover this phenomenon. To many people, their notices probably feel like weeks ago. I know when they cancelled our auto last January (because Farmer’s and then State Farm were both pulling out of California for very political reasons, which I know because I called an agent my brother knew from State Farm and he gave me the straight dope), I got a few months notice, but time flies and it feels like two weeks ago.

Anybody saying that insurers leaving California is due solely to climate change and not the regulatory apparatus of the state is— I think—incorrect in that assessment. I don’t know exactly how or why, but I did watch two separate long-ish videos on it and a lot had to do with the regulatory state here.

And I’m not looking to get political, but chalking this up to climate change and climate change alone (and there is indeed a large component of climate change that goes into the new prices and coverage) is erroneous.

Because if it is just climate change, there needs to be a policy change in how we regulate insurance. Telling people simply “tough ****—you’re now uninsurable and at risk” is not acceptable in any society, even the one with the most dynamist capitalistic outlook you can have. Your government will collapse if you attempt to do that because now you’re trying to tell people to live in theory rather than in practice, which has analogous cousins I don’t want to mention for fear of red meat and red herrings. But you can’t have a system predicated and based on totally uprooting people constantly while declaring their best investment null and void.

I just want to make sure my free market friends aren’t adopting this posture. The government will collapse (even if another reason is stated) if you do that. That’s my sincerely held belief that’s probably not too far off.

I have State Farm. Had it for 24 years at my current residence. My agent was my friend before I got insurance with her. When there were fires across the street from me, I called her and she said you’re good. Don’t worry about it. Then there was another fire across the canyon. Multiple 10M plus houses burned. Over the years there are more isolated incidents. Some huge fires. So far so good. I’m grandfathered in, in her words. No chance they drop me. I’ll be calling her in the next few weeks to ensure this is still the case.

In the grand scheme of things, your agent will have minimal input on whether you are dropped or not.

True. But as a 30 year friend, she will at least tell me the truth.

Used to be an actuary. I can assure you that if she is telling you there is zero chance you are dropped or that you are 'grandfathered in' she is just trying to keep you from worrying. Nobody is ever grandfathered in, and there is always a non-zero chance you will be dropped

Exactly. The agent, while I’m sure well intentioned and honest as a friend, will likely have no idea which customers the company is planning to cut at this point.

Also a former actuary. Still employed in the insurance / reinsurance world.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Some moron shot off some fireworks in my neighborhood last night.

yet, if you drove your car over him, you’d go to jail.

No joke, anyone shooting off fireworks in LA right now belongs in jail

 

[dickey moe]

I'd replace taxpayers with citizens, not sure why a taxpayer living in Georgia should subsidize the cost of living for someone in Florida or California. Citizens should need to be prepared to pay to protect their homes, otherwise they should purchase their homes elsewhere. And the answer is someone is paying for it whether it’s insurance or the damage and repair.

Perhaps because on net, taxpayers in Florida and California subsidize taxpayers Georgia every year?

Why Los Angeles was unprepared for this fire — The Washington Post

Several key factors left L.A. exposed to disaster.

apple.news

This article is from the Washington Post and I thought it was informative.

I'd like to read it but I don't want to subscribe to the WP for one article. I saw a blurb briefly with three bullet points. Not clearing the chaparral, water system and urban sprawl? LAFD is pretty decentralized with over 100 fire stations addressing the sprawl. If they cleared the very resilient chaparral in the Palisades nature would replace it with something more flammable. It also serves to prevent landslides. Or so I was told by a local fireman yesterday. Local being far out in the desert a couple hours from LA. The water system is designed to fight one to three house fires, not wildfires. That's what aerial support is for, and they just couldn't fly in those high winds. The hydrant system was drained and lost pressure due to not being able to refill the reservoirs fast enough. Tragic.

Tip...you can go to archive.ph and input the web address for the article to read an archived version of it (and just about anything else that's paywalled).

 

[FairWarning]

If it is arson -- and yeah, that's a very real possibility -- it is overwhelmingly more likely to be some random crazy person or a kid or something than terrorism. In fact, I'll go further and say that we would 100% know if it were terrorism, because it would have been coordinated.

Not saying that you're wrong to see the vulnerability, just that it doesn't appear to be the issue here.

yeah, at this point, I'd imagine a terrorist group would have taken credit for it. I never meant to imply that terrorism was the only explanation, I just thought it was a plausible explanation.

The key to identifying the cause of the still-raging Palisades Fire lies on a brush-covered hilltop where the blaze broke out just after 10:30 a.m. on Tuesday.

Fire investigators are still working to determine what sparked the inferno, but experts say it’s easy to rule out one common cause of wildfires: lightning. The region was free of stormy weather this week. The area near the Temescal Ridge Trail also appears to be free of power lines or transformers, which rules out another potential cause.

NBC News

I wonder if these kids know? -

x.com

x.com

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

The WaPo has an article that thinks the Palisades fire may have started because of a re-ignition of a New Years fire started with fireworks.

Idiots.

 

[Runkle]

I'd replace taxpayers with citizens, not sure why a taxpayer living in Georgia should subsidize the cost of living for someone in Florida or California. Citizens should need to be prepared to pay to protect their homes, otherwise they should purchase their homes elsewhere. And the answer is someone is paying for it whether it’s insurance or the damage and repair.

Perhaps because on net, taxpayers in Florida and California subsidize taxpayers Georgia every year?

Why Los Angeles was unprepared for this fire — The Washington Post

Several key factors left L.A. exposed to disaster.

apple.news

This article is from the Washington Post and I thought it was informative.

I'd like to read it but I don't want to subscribe to the WP for one article. I saw a blurb briefly with three bullet points. Not clearing the chaparral, water system and urban sprawl? LAFD is pretty decentralized with over 100 fire stations addressing the sprawl. If they cleared the very resilient chaparral in the Palisades nature would replace it with something more flammable. It also serves to prevent landslides. Or so I was told by a local fireman yesterday. Local being far out in the desert a couple hours from LA. The water system is designed to fight one to three house fires, not wildfires. That's what aerial support is for, and they just couldn't fly in those high winds. The hydrant system was drained and lost pressure due to not being able to refill the reservoirs fast enough. Tragic.

Tip...you can go to archive.ph and input the web address for the article to read an archived version of it (and just about anything else that's paywalled).

You can also go to the url bar (on both desktop and mobile) and type archive.ph/ even in front of the http and it'll automatically load the archived version in the tab if you load a paywalled article

 

[djmich]

I'd replace taxpayers with citizens, not sure why a taxpayer living in Georgia should subsidize the cost of living for someone in Florida or California. Citizens should need to be prepared to pay to protect their homes, otherwise they should purchase their homes elsewhere. And the answer is someone is paying for it whether it’s insurance or the damage and repair.

Perhaps because on net, taxpayers in Florida and California subsidize taxpayers Georgia every year?

Why Los Angeles was unprepared for this fire — The Washington Post

Several key factors left L.A. exposed to disaster.

apple.news

This article is from the Washington Post and I thought it was informative.

I'd like to read it but I don't want to subscribe to the WP for one article. I saw a blurb briefly with three bullet points. Not clearing the chaparral, water system and urban sprawl? LAFD is pretty decentralized with over 100 fire stations addressing the sprawl. If they cleared the very resilient chaparral in the Palisades nature would replace it with something more flammable. It also serves to prevent landslides. Or so I was told by a local fireman yesterday. Local being far out in the desert a couple hours from LA. The water system is designed to fight one to three house fires, not wildfires. That's what aerial support is for, and they just couldn't fly in those high winds. The hydrant system was drained and lost pressure due to not being able to refill the reservoirs fast enough. Tragic.

Tip...you can go to archive.ph and input the web address for the article to read an archived version of it (and just about anything else that's paywalled).

Nice. Should I feel bad for doing this lol

 

[dickey moe]

I'd replace taxpayers with citizens, not sure why a taxpayer living in Georgia should subsidize the cost of living for someone in Florida or California. Citizens should need to be prepared to pay to protect their homes, otherwise they should purchase their homes elsewhere. And the answer is someone is paying for it whether it’s insurance or the damage and repair.

Perhaps because on net, taxpayers in Florida and California subsidize taxpayers Georgia every year?

Why Los Angeles was unprepared for this fire — The Washington Post

Several key factors left L.A. exposed to disaster.

apple.news

This article is from the Washington Post and I thought it was informative.

I'd like to read it but I don't want to subscribe to the WP for one article. I saw a blurb briefly with three bullet points. Not clearing the chaparral, water system and urban sprawl? LAFD is pretty decentralized with over 100 fire stations addressing the sprawl. If they cleared the very resilient chaparral in the Palisades nature would replace it with something more flammable. It also serves to prevent landslides. Or so I was told by a local fireman yesterday. Local being far out in the desert a couple hours from LA. The water system is designed to fight one to three house fires, not wildfires. That's what aerial support is for, and they just couldn't fly in those high winds. The hydrant system was drained and lost pressure due to not being able to refill the reservoirs fast enough. Tragic.

Tip...you can go to archive.ph and input the web address for the article to read an archived version of it (and just about anything else that's paywalled).

Nice. Should I feel bad for doing this lol

If it's on the internet it must be ok!

 

[Sand]

If it is arson -- and yeah, that's a very real possibility -- it is overwhelmingly more likely to be some random crazy person or a kid or something than terrorism. In fact, I'll go further and say that we would 100% know if it were terrorism, because it would have been coordinated.

Not saying that you're wrong to see the vulnerability, just that it doesn't appear to be the issue here.

yeah, at this point, I'd imagine a terrorist group would have taken credit for it. I never meant to imply that terrorism was the only explanation, I just thought it was a plausible explanation.

The key to identifying the cause of the still-raging Palisades Fire lies on a brush-covered hilltop where the blaze broke out just after 10:30 a.m. on Tuesday.

Fire investigators are still working to determine what sparked the inferno, but experts say it’s easy to rule out one common cause of wildfires: lightning. The region was free of stormy weather this week. The area near the Temescal Ridge Trail also appears to be free of power lines or transformers, which rules out another potential cause.

NBC News

I wonder if these kids know? -

x.com

x.com

Lots of jumping to conclusions in that thread. On the face of it it seems that they are running from a fire already coming down at them. But who knows.

 

[FairWarning]

If it is arson -- and yeah, that's a very real possibility -- it is overwhelmingly more likely to be some random crazy person or a kid or something than terrorism. In fact, I'll go further and say that we would 100% know if it were terrorism, because it would have been coordinated.

Not saying that you're wrong to see the vulnerability, just that it doesn't appear to be the issue here.

yeah, at this point, I'd imagine a terrorist group would have taken credit for it. I never meant to imply that terrorism was the only explanation, I just thought it was a plausible explanation.

The key to identifying the cause of the still-raging Palisades Fire lies on a brush-covered hilltop where the blaze broke out just after 10:30 a.m. on Tuesday.

Fire investigators are still working to determine what sparked the inferno, but experts say it’s easy to rule out one common cause of wildfires: lightning. The region was free of stormy weather this week. The area near the Temescal Ridge Trail also appears to be free of power lines or transformers, which rules out another potential cause.

NBC News

I wonder if these kids know? -

x.com

x.com

Lots of jumping to conclusions in that thread. On the face of it it seems that they are running from a fire already coming down at them. But who knows.

They have more info than anyone else.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Seeing a meme posted by a certain segment of people now all over Twitter and IG that the fire companies that Oregon sent down were stopped and checked for emissions in California, delaying the help they could provide.

Or……

 

[TripItUp]

Both the local and national news media are starting to drill down into the causes and faults.

This is the part I'm looking forward to as I'm the most interested in long term solutions and holding persons/entities accountable.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Both the local and national news media are starting to drill down into the causes and faults.

This is the part I'm looking forward to as I'm the most interested in long term solutions and holding persons/entities accountable.

I don't think Mother Nature is gonna co-operate.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Seeing a meme posted by a certain segment of people now all over Twitter and IG that the fire companies that Oregon sent down were stopped and checked for emissions in California, delaying the help they could provide.

Or……

You’re doing the same thing only in reverse.

I imagine the “certainty segment of our population” question the truth of everything because they are constantly being lied to and manipulated.

Speaking of being manipulated- looks like the meme you spoke about worked exactly as intended.

 

[Chaos34]

Watching a Studio City mansion burn to the ground right now. When the front of it collapsed it sent a billion embers up into the Hollywood Hills where my sis and her girls live. Sure enough in a matter of minutes a fire started a few thousand feet up the hill. They've felt safe enough until now but just started packing what can fit into three vehicles. Headed for Vegas.

Welp my nephew and I are my sister's heroes. We live a couple hours away, but rented a UHaul and drove into the nightmare. Loaded it up and saved some precious stuff sis was crying about. The evacuation order hit before we arrived but we pulled it off unbothered. So many fires burning guys/gals. This is far from over and I...

Anyway she's still crying but now it's a mix of happy and sad tears.

 

[RCon]

Both the local and national news media are starting to drill down into the causes and faults.

This is the part I'm looking forward to as I'm the most interested in long term solutions and holding persons/entities accountable.

I mean, it would be nice if we could hold those most responsible for climate change accountable, but I think that ship has sailed.

 

[Gatorade]

Both the local and national news media are starting to drill down into the causes and faults.

This is the part I'm looking forward to as I'm the most interested in long term solutions and holding persons/entities accountable.

I mean, it would be nice if we could hold those most responsible for climate change accountable, but I think that ship has sailed.

Unless you can get China and India to drastically change, anything else we try just seems like a drop in the bucket. There is not much we can do about the natural occurring events from mother nature.

 

[Chaos34]

These pilots have won my heart. just an unbelievable water strike on Runyan Canyon just now. From acres of inferno to smoking embers in one dump. Not a wasted drop. I saw similar all day saving Mandeville Canyon yesterday. Hats off to them all.

 

[The Z Machine]

Both the local and national news media are starting to drill down into the causes and faults.

This is the part I'm looking forward to as I'm the most interested in long term solutions and holding persons/entities accountable.

I mean, it would be nice if we could hold those most responsible for climate change accountable, but I think that ship has sailed.

Unless you can get China and India to drastically change, anything else we try just seems like a drop in the bucket. There is not much we can do about the natural occurring events from mother nature.

Disagree

 

[Redwes25]

Watching a Studio City mansion burn to the ground right now. When the front of it collapsed it sent a billion embers up into the Hollywood Hills where my sis and her girls live. Sure enough in a matter of minutes a fire started a few thousand feet up the hill. They've felt safe enough until now but just started packing what can fit into three vehicles. Headed for Vegas.

Welp my nephew and I are my sister's heroes. We live a couple hours away, but rented a UHaul and drove into the nightmare. Loaded it up and saved some precious stuff sis was crying about. The evacuation order hit before we arrived but we pulled it off unbothered. This has been the best streaming coverage on youtube I've found and it is currently covering that fire. So many fires burning guys/gals. This is far from over and I...

Anyway she's still crying but now it's a mix of happy and sad tears.

That link is not to live coverage right now. That is older clips of Runyon Canyon fire from a few days ago.

 

[Chaos34]

Wow. Fox saying amazing fantastic results in Mandeville Canyon. Whew. No flames, just smoke. They hit that place so hard yesterday. Having lived right above that canyon, soon as I saw the devastation in Pacific Palisades, I thought it was key. So much fuel and open space. Encino on one end. Brentwood on the other. Straight shot to the 405, where I lived, and high peaks that shoot embers over the freeway into Bel-Air. Anyway, dem bad### ##fos are putting an end to any of that.

 

[Chaos34]

Watching a Studio City mansion burn to the ground right now. When the front of it collapsed it sent a billion embers up into the Hollywood Hills where my sis and her girls live. Sure enough in a matter of minutes a fire started a few thousand feet up the hill. They've felt safe enough until now but just started packing what can fit into three vehicles. Headed for Vegas.

Welp my nephew and I are my sister's heroes. We live a couple hours away, but rented a UHaul and drove into the nightmare. Loaded it up and saved some precious stuff sis was crying about. The evacuation order hit before we arrived but we pulled it off unbothered. This has been the best streaming coverage on youtube I've found and it is currently covering that fire. So many fires burning guys/gals. This is far from over and I...

Anyway she's still crying but now it's a mix of happy and sad tears.

That link is not to live coverage right now. That is older clips of Runyon Canyon fire from a few days ago.

yup sorry that was the wrong link

 

[SFBayDuck]

Seeing a meme posted by a certain segment of people now all over Twitter and IG that the fire companies that Oregon sent down were stopped and checked for emissions in California, delaying the help they could provide.

Or……

You’re doing the same thing only in reverse.

I imagine the “certainty segment of our population” question the truth of everything because they are constantly being lied to and manipulated.

Speaking of being manipulated- looks like the meme you spoke about worked exactly as intended.

??????

These are people that aren’t questioning anything that they see in their algo-driven and cable news bubbles that supports their world view. So they are in fact being lied to and manipulated and lapping it right up.

And the intention of the meme was to continue to try and raise outrage directed toward a particular group of leaders. Was I outraged? No, I spent 30 seconds looking for the truth and found it from the source.

 

[SFBayDuck]

To add - my comment, and obvious frustration, is not so much directed at a particular group of people on either end of the political spectrum. It happens all across it.

 

[TripItUp]

Regarding the cause, about 30 minutes ago there was a discussion on CNN that the city was pointing towards power lines but PG&E is saying it is highly unlikely.

So there is already finger pointing.

I think it' safe to say that if there is any alternative to power lines that could cause such a fire, they need to be changed/removed etc. so this can't happen again.

A) we knew those power lines were there
B) We knew the Santa Ana winds kick up and the potential for these winds was always there since this isn't the first time we've had them and they are an annual occurrence
C) We know in these droughts the fire risk runs high because of the dry conditions

Why in the hell hasn't anybody addressed the power lines previously? Is the current electricity architecture the only possible means of electricity transmission?

None of this should have been a surprise.(if it was in fact power line related)

 

[fatness]

Good article on causes of wildfires.

"Identifying the cause of a fire is a highly specialized and painstaking endeavor, experts say. The first step is pinpointing where it began. Things like burn patterns and charred debris can provide crucial clues. Then comes the most detailed and labor-intensive part of the process. The investigators will lay out a grid at the scene, typically with string, and literally crawl around on their hands and knees in search of footprints or other clues. The investigators often use metal detectors and magnifying glasses or even binoculars to help with their search. “They’ll go inch by inch by inch, and it will take hours,” said Nordskog. “It’s not fun.”

In the case of the Eaton Fire, the investigators are likely to use magnets to help them hunt for the tiny, melted pieces of metal that could have been shed by power lines if they slapped together. But the existence of the metal doesn’t necessarily indicate that’s how the fire started, Nordskog said. “You still have to figure out if the power lines’ spark was because things were already on fire or what started the fire,” he said. “There’s so much stuff going on with an investigation, so many factors. Anybody tells you right away what caused the fire, they had to have seen it.”

If the investigators find evidence the fire was caused by a person, they must then work to determine whether it was the result of an accident, negligence or an intentional act. John Abatzoglou, a professor of climatology at the University of California, Merced, examined 30 years’ worth of government fire occurrence data from Los Angeles County. It showed that the most common causes of wildfires from 1992 to 2020 were mishaps related to vehicles and other equipment. “More than 95% of these are human-ignited fires,” he wrote in an email. “Arson is among the causes, but most human-caused fires are not intentional.”"

"“This is what we call inaccessible, rugged terrain,” said Rick Crawford, former battalion chief for the Los Angeles Fire Department. “Arsonists usually aren’t going to go 500 feet off a trailhead through trees and brush, set a fire and then run away.”"

 

[fatness]

First report of the Palisades fire.

 

[fatness]

Ukraine has offered to send 150 firefighters.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Both the local and national news media are starting to drill down into the causes and faults.

This is the part I'm looking forward to as I'm the most interested in long term solutions and holding persons/entities accountable.

I mean, it would be nice if we could hold those most responsible for climate change accountable, but I think that ship has sailed.

Unless you can get China and India to drastically change, anything else we try just seems like a drop in the bucket. There is not much we can do about the natural occurring events from mother nature.

China is making big changes, leading the way in wind and solar production as well as in EV production. They're also leaning heavy into nuclear.

Not only is China taking dramatic steps to transition to a green economy, the country’s leaders view this shift as an opportunity to overtake the United States as the world’s economic superpower.

China accounts for less than 18% of the global population but in 2023 installed 70% of the world’s added wind power capacity, 42% of all solar panels, 32% of all heat pumps, and accounted for 57% of all electric vehicle sales. China is also forecast to account for 44% of the world’s added nuclear power capacity by 2030.

China installed more solar panels in 2023 than the United States has in its entire history. It accounts for almost 60% of new renewable capacity expected to become operational globally over the next five years, and almost two-thirds of global wind and solar projects under construction today are in China. As a result, Chinese climate pollution appears to have now peaked and is poised to decline.

A recent report by energy think tank RMI put this shift into historical perspective. It noted that in the 20th century, the United States led the transitions to the ages of steel and electricity, oil and mass manufacturing, and information technologies. The next transition will be to the age of renewable energy, efficiency, and electrification. But this time, China is poised to lead the new economy.

 

[fatness]

Bad weather news.

" “There will be the potential — especially late Monday night through Wednesday — for explosive fire growth as those winds pick back up,” said Ariel Cohen, the meteorologist in charge of the National Weather Service office in Oxnard. “In the case of an evacuation order being issued, you have to follow that immediately. Seconds could save your life.”

Gusts of 50 to 65 mph are expected Monday, with the strongest winds arriving before dawn Tuesday and peaking through Wednesday. Areas north of the fire line from Point Dume to Glendale will be particularly at risk, Cohen said. The brewing wind conditions are generally expected to push existing fires at a south and westward angle." "

 

[TripItUp]

Lock these looters up for life...what a disgrace.

 

[Max Power]

Is there a working estimate for when they think everything will be under control?

 

[Redwes25]

Regarding the cause, about 30 minutes ago there was a discussion on CNN that the city was pointing towards power lines but PG&E is saying it is highly unlikely.

So there is already finger pointing.

I think it' safe to say that if there is any alternative to power lines that could cause such a fire, they need to be changed/removed etc. so this can't happen again.

A) we knew those power lines were there
B) We knew the Santa Ana winds kick up and the potential for these winds was always there since this isn't the first time we've had them and they are an annual reoccurrence
C) We know in these droughts the fire risk runs high because of the dry conditions

Why in the hell hasn't anybody addressed the power lines previously? Is the current electricity architecture the only possible mechanism?

None of this should have been a surprise.(if it was in fact power line related)

You can bury the power lines. Very few places do that as expensive and only done in dense urban neighborhoods.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Regarding the cause, about 30 minutes ago there was a discussion on CNN that the city was pointing towards power lines but PG&E is saying it is highly unlikely.

So there is already finger pointing.

I think it' safe to say that if there is any alternative to power lines that could cause such a fire, they need to be changed/removed etc. so this can't happen again.

A) we knew those power lines were there
B) We knew the Santa Ana winds kick up and the potential for these winds was always there since this isn't the first time we've had them and they are an annual occurrence
C) We know in these droughts the fire risk runs high because of the dry conditions

Why in the hell hasn't anybody addressed the power lines previously? Is the current electricity architecture the only possible means of electricity transmission?

None of this should have been a surprise.(if it was in fact power line related)

it's not a surprise, there is a history with pg&e and fires

The 2018 Camp Fire in Northern California's Butte County was at the time the deadliest and most destructive wildfire in California's history. The fire began on the morning of Thursday, November 8, 2018, when part of a poorly maintained Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) transmission line in the Feather River Canyon failed during strong katabatic winds. Those winds rapidly drove the Camp Fire through the communities of Concow, Magalia, Butte Creek Canyon, and Paradise, largely destroying them. The fire burned for another two weeks, and was contained on Sunday, November 25, after burning 153,336 acres (62,050 ha). The Camp Fire caused 85 fatalities, displaced more than 50,000 people, and destroyed more than 18,000 structures, causing an estimated US$16.5 billion in damage. It was the most expensive natural disaster (by insured losses) of 2018, and is a notable case of a utility-caused wildfire.

PG&E filed for bankruptcy in January 2019, citing expected wildfire liabilities of $30 billion. On December 6, 2019, the utility made a settlement offer of $13.5 billion for the wildfire victims; the offer covered several devastating fires caused by the utility, including the Camp Fire. On June 16, 2020, the utility pleaded guilty to 84 counts of involuntary manslaughter.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Is the current electricity architecture the only possible means of electricity transmission?

No. But it’s the cheapest, that’s why it’s being used

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Regarding the cause, about 30 minutes ago there was a discussion on CNN that the city was pointing towards power lines but PG&E is saying it is highly unlikely.

So there is already finger pointing.

I think it' safe to say that if there is any alternative to power lines that could cause such a fire, they need to be changed/removed etc. so this can't happen again.

A) we knew those power lines were there
B) We knew the Santa Ana winds kick up and the potential for these winds was always there since this isn't the first time we've had them and they are an annual reoccurrence
C) We know in these droughts the fire risk runs high because of the dry conditions

Why in the hell hasn't anybody addressed the power lines previously? Is the current electricity architecture the only possible mechanism?

None of this should have been a surprise.(if it was in fact power line related)

You can bury the power lines. Very few places do that as expensive and only done in dense urban neighborhoods.

Burying the lines makes them very dificult to service if there is a problem. Here, the local lines are buried, but the main transmission lines are not.