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So is Coles Still Averaging around 10 yds/catch? (1 Viewer)

redman

Footballguy
Dear Laveraneus, Glad to see that you reamed the 'Skins by forcing them to trade you for a guy with two healthy feet. Best of luck to you at the TE, er, WR position in New York.Love, A 'Skins fan.

 

Raiders Fan

The Black Hole
Dear Laveraneus,

Glad to see that you reamed the 'Skins by forcing them to trade you for a guy with two healthy feet. Best of luck to you at the TE, er, WR position in New York.

Love,

A 'Skins fan.
I love Coles value this year.. Look for 2003 numbers if not a shade better. Maybe an extra TD or 2...
 

redman

Footballguy
Dear Laveraneus,

Glad to see that you reamed the 'Skins by forcing them to trade you for a guy with two healthy feet.  Best of luck to you at the TE, er, WR position in New York.

Love,

A 'Skins fan.
I love Coles value this year.. Look for 2003 numbers if not a shade better. Maybe an extra TD or 2...
I'm not rooting against the guy. I loved his competitive fire. But I thought he was dumb for failing to treat the foot that was so clearly causing him problems, and I resented everyone else lecturing to Redskins fans who knew about the problem how stupid they were for trading him. Here's the deal. Coles injured his foot in week 3 of the 2003 season. Here's a breakdown of his stats in light of that injury:

Career stats as of week 3, 2003: 193/2893/13 (14.98 yds/catch)

2003 season stats as of week 3, 2003: 23/391/1 (17.0 yds/catch)

2003 season stats after week 3, 2003: 59/813/5 (13.78 yds/catch)

total career stats after week 3, 2003: 149/1763/6 (11.83 yds/catch)

Career stats as of present time: 342/4656/20 (13.6 yds/catch)

True, the 'Skins offense downright sucked last year. But what any 'Skins fan will tell you is that Laveraneus had absolutely zero abilty to do anything after the catch, and struggled to make cuts and get open. Even if he averages a full two yards more per catch than he did last year, that's still only 12.6 yards per catch which is possession WR material.

Caveat emptor.

 

higgins

Footballguy
But I thought he was dumb for failing to treat the foot that was so clearly causing him problems,
The treatment/procedure is possibly career threatening, not a simple case -- I wouldn't take that kind of decision lightly either.
 

redman

Footballguy
But I thought he was dumb for failing to treat the foot that was so clearly causing him problems,
The treatment/procedure is possibly career threatening, not a simple case -- I wouldn't take that kind of decision lightly either.
It's certainly his call. I wouldn't want to have that dilemma either. But for fantasy purposes, you simply can't deny that he's a different player from when he was last with the Jets in '02.
 

Big Score

Footballguy
But I thought he was dumb for failing to treat the foot that was so clearly causing him problems,
The treatment/procedure is possibly career threatening, not a simple case -- I wouldn't take that kind of decision lightly either.
Very true. It ended O.J. McDuffies career. I think that might have had a bearing on Coles decision to avoid the surgery. I know if I were in Coles shoes, I would've done the same. :yes:
 

higgins

Footballguy
But I thought he was dumb for failing to treat the foot that was so clearly causing him problems,
The treatment/procedure is possibly career threatening, not a simple case -- I wouldn't take that kind of decision lightly either.
It's certainly his call. I wouldn't want to have that dilemma either. But for fantasy purposes, you simply can't deny that he's a different player from when he was last with the Jets in '02.
:thumbup: No denial whatsoever -- have had him in dynasty for a while, and am thinking realistically that he'll never be the same again. As soon as he lights it up in a game, I'll be shopping him.But all that being said...it would be a tough decision to make in his shoes :sadbanana:

 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
But I thought he was dumb for failing to treat the foot that was so clearly causing him problems,
The treatment/procedure is possibly career threatening, not a simple case -- I wouldn't take that kind of decision lightly either.
It's certainly his call. I wouldn't want to have that dilemma either. But for fantasy purposes, you simply can't deny that he's a different player from when he was last with the Jets in '02.
So Coles has a single season of 10 yards a catch. And then he follows that up with 10 yards a catch in a preseason game. And now he's a TE? Now he's different than in 2002 when he was with the Jets? Let's look at his stats. His first 3 years as the regular starter he had a YPC of 14.7, 14.2, and 14.7, respectively. Then he plays a season with Brunell as the starter for a big chunk of the season and his YPC goes down and now he's some kinda chump?

He's not the same as he was in 2002? In 2002, his last with the Jets, he had 1200 yards, 5 TD's, and a 14.2 YPC. In 2003 he had 1200 yards, 6 TD's, and a 14.7 ypc. So he had nearly identical seasons in his last season with NY and his first in Washington. Then that moron of an owner hires a coach that the game has passed by which is evidenced by that insane contract to a guy who couldn't throw 10 yards. No wonder the guy's YPC was so low. Oh, and Coles goes out and catches 90 balls with a nagging and painful injury. The guy did everything he could for that doomed franchise including playing through the pain.

I'm sorry, but a single season in yet another new scheme and one preseason game does not make this guy a TE or some sort of career 10 ypc receiver. Considering he has 3 seasons of over 14 ypc, I would think one would deduce that the single season of 10 ypc is the anomaly and not the standard for performance. But then again I didn't do so well in that Graduate class in Statistics.....

 

redman

Footballguy
But I thought he was dumb for failing to treat the foot that was so clearly causing him problems,
The treatment/procedure is possibly career threatening, not a simple case -- I wouldn't take that kind of decision lightly either.
It's certainly his call. I wouldn't want to have that dilemma either. But for fantasy purposes, you simply can't deny that he's a different player from when he was last with the Jets in '02.
So Coles has a single season of 10 yards a catch. And then he follows that up with 10 yards a catch in a preseason game. And now he's a TE? Now he's different than in 2002 when he was with the Jets? Let's look at his stats. His first 3 years as the regular starter he had a YPC of 14.7, 14.2, and 14.7, respectively. Then he plays a season with Brunell as the starter for a big chunk of the season and his YPC goes down and now he's some kinda chump?

He's not the same as he was in 2002? In 2002, his last with the Jets, he had 1200 yards, 5 TD's, and a 14.2 YPC. In 2003 he had 1200 yards, 6 TD's, and a 14.7 ypc. So he had nearly identical seasons in his last season with NY and his first in Washington. Then that moron of an owner hires a coach that the game has passed by which is evidenced by that insane contract to a guy who couldn't throw 10 yards. No wonder the guy's YPC was so low. Oh, and Coles goes out and catches 90 balls with a nagging and painful injury. The guy did everything he could for that doomed franchise including playing through the pain.

I'm sorry, but a single season in yet another new scheme and one preseason game does not make this guy a TE or some sort of career 10 ypc receiver. Considering he has 3 seasons of over 14 ypc, I would think one would deduce that the single season of 10 ypc is the anomaly and not the standard for performance. But then again I didn't do so well in that Graduate class in Statistics.....
I've already given a more detailed breakdown of his stats than you did, and also mentioned the reasons for the change in the stats. You go ahead and draft your "stud". As for me, I'll be happy to draft him when (and if) he falls to me as my WR2/WR3 at best.
 

joey

Footballguy
I've already given a more detailed breakdown of his stats than you did, and also mentioned the reasons for the change in the stats. You go ahead and draft your "stud". As for me, I'll be happy to draft him when (and if) he falls to me as my WR2/WR3 at best.
I didn't see anyone touting him as a WR1.I think most would agree he'd make a decent WR2

and a very good WR3.

Arguing over nothing?

 

zamboni

Footballguy
Even if his YPC gravitates more towards last year's 10 versus the 14 of previous years, he's very valuable in PPR leagues. Yes, it's preseason, but 6 catches in one quarter is pretty damn promising.Also, given how much Chad likes to look for him, I think his TDs may very well show a nice tick upwards this year.

 
T

trader jake

Guest
what is his contract situation? i can't imagine he's going to see another big bonus payment coming his way because of these foot concerns...soooo - does he have high base salaries which are preventing him from attempting the surgery?healthy oj mcduffie < injured version of lav coles...lol

 

Rovers

Footballguy
I think it's way to early to label Coles a possession reciever based on what, one quarter of preseason play with his starting QB? The Jets aren't going to play the run and shoot either, this offense will remain somewhat conservative, but will throw deep to keep the defense honest. From what I've seen of Coles in TC, I don't label him a possession WR by any stretch. He'll get his share of long TD's, but to make a judgement this early..... sounds like a bit of sour grapes to me, red.

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
I've already given a more detailed breakdown of his stats than you did, and also mentioned the reasons for the change in the stats.  You go ahead and draft your "stud".  As for me, I'll be happy to draft him when (and if) he falls to me as my WR2/WR3 at best.
I didn't see anyone touting him as a WR1.I think most would agree he'd make a decent WR2

and a very good WR3.

Arguing over nothing?
:thumbup:
 

redman

Footballguy
What's the over-under on his yards per catch this season? Anyone? Like I said in my post above, I'd say the over-under is 12.6, two ypc above what he did last year in the 'Skins' abysmal offense. Does anyone disagree?

 

higgins

Footballguy
What's the over-under on his yards per catch this season? Anyone?

Like I said in my post above, I'd say the over-under is 12.6, two ypc above what he did last year in the 'Skins' abysmal offense. Does anyone disagree?
I'll see your 12.6 and raise you 1.0...totalling 13.6.
 

Prime

Footballguy
Dear Laveraneus,

Glad to see that you reamed the 'Skins by forcing them to trade you for a guy with two healthy feet.  Best of luck to you at the TE, er, WR position in New York.

Love,

A 'Skins fan.
I love Coles value this year.. Look for 2003 numbers if not a shade better. Maybe an extra TD or 2...
I'm not rooting against the guy. I loved his competitive fire. But I thought he was dumb for failing to treat the foot that was so clearly causing him problems, and I resented everyone else lecturing to Redskins fans who knew about the problem how stupid they were for trading him. Here's the deal. Coles injured his foot in week 3 of the 2003 season. Here's a breakdown of his stats in light of that injury:

Career stats as of week 3, 2003: 193/2893/13 (14.98 yds/catch)

2003 season stats as of week 3, 2003: 23/391/1 (17.0 yds/catch)

2003 season stats after week 3, 2003: 59/813/5 (13.78 yds/catch)

total career stats after week 3, 2003: 149/1763/6 (11.83 yds/catch)

Career stats as of present time: 342/4656/20 (13.6 yds/catch)

True, the 'Skins offense downright sucked last year. But what any 'Skins fan will tell you is that Laveraneus had absolutely zero abilty to do anything after the catch, and struggled to make cuts and get open. Even if he averages a full two yards more per catch than he did last year, that's still only 12.6 yards per catch which is possession WR material.

Caveat emptor.
The Redskins offense sucked last year? What about the past several years? He struggled to get open? Really? On his way to 90 catches? He was severely miss used in Joe Gibbs offense. Do you think his YPC had anything to do with the fact that they asked him to run WR screens all the time and the magnificent Clinton "I can't break an arm tackle" Portis's non-Denver-esk 3.8 YPC?Coles was the lone bright spot for the Redskins last year. You knock his 5 TD's when he didn't have an actual NFL caliber QB running what was allegedly an offense.

 
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NYRAGE

Footballguy
Did you see his TD catch or any of the others? Probably not. Coles looked great last night.I guess making ignorant posts is your catharsis for being a fan of the horrific Redskins.

 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
I've already given a more detailed breakdown of his stats than you did, and also mentioned the reasons for the change in the stats. You go ahead and draft your "stud". As for me, I'll be happy to draft him when (and if) he falls to me as my WR2/WR3 at best.
Pay attention there genius. Good job with the lack reading comprehension. My WR's are Harrison, Clayton, Coles and Roy Williams. Coles would be a nice option at 3 if not 4 if Roy Williams is a stud this year. So, explain to me again how he's my WR1? See my sig for my complete roster.

 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
The Redskins offense sucked last year? What about the past several years? He struggled to get open? Really? On his way to 90 catches? He was severely miss used in Joe Gibbs offense. Do you think his YPC had anything to do with the fact that they asked him to run WR screens all the time and the magnificent Clinton "I can't break an arm tackle" Portis's non-Denver-esk 3.8 YPC?

Coles was the lone bright spot for the Redskins last year. You knock his 5 TD's when he didn't have an actual NFL caliber QB running what was allegedly an offense.
:goodposting: You nailed it. He was the only bright spot on that team. Playing through pain. Snagging 90 balls despite the double team. What more do you want?

 

redman

Footballguy
I hadn't forgotten this thread, but it's a bit early to bump it. I was planning on week 4 or 5 to reexamine this. However, before anyone jumps in to exclaim that Pennington's injury has hurt Coles' ability to make plays, please explain why Chris Baker and Justin McCareins are able to average over 15 yards per catch:

Code:
Receiving Stats Player No Yds Avg Long TD Chris Baker 11 172 15.6 33 1 Laveranues Coles 15 151 10.1 25 1 Justin McCareins 9 142 15.8 37 0 Wayne Chrebet 7 68 9.7 18 0 Jerald Sowell 6 56 9.3 28 1 Curtis Martin 7 30 4.3 14 0 Doug Jolley 2 18 9.0 11 0
 

elotk

Footballguy
I hadn't forgotten this thread, but it's a bit early to bump it. I was planning on week 4 or 5 to reexamine this.

However, before anyone jumps in to exclaim that Pennington's injury has hurt Coles' ability to make plays, please explain why Chris Baker and Justin McCareins are able to average over 15 yards per catch:

Receiving Stats Player No Yds Avg Long TD Chris Baker 11 172 15.6 33 1 Laveranues Coles 15 151 10.1 25 1 Justin McCareins 9 142 15.8 37 0 Wayne Chrebet 7 68 9.7 18 0 Jerald Sowell 6 56 9.3 28 1 Curtis Martin 7 30 4.3 14 0 Doug Jolley 2 18 9.0 11 0
These statements obviously show that you havent watched a single Jet game. Coles has had a couple of drops, but has otherwise been a beast. Unfortunately he had Penny throwing to him.eLOT

 

jbz

Footballguy
lol, if he didn't drop those balls, he'd be a beast. That's genius stuff right there. Too bad a WRs main job is to catch the ball. Pennington throwing to him had nothing to do with it either. Those balls hit him right in the hands. Unless you're implying Pennington was throwing it too hard?

 

redman

Footballguy
What's the over-under on his yards per catch this season?  Anyone? 

Like I said in my post above, I'd say the over-under is 12.6, two ypc above what he did last year in the 'Skins' abysmal offense.  Does anyone disagree?
I'll see your 12.6 and raise you 1.0...totalling 13.6.
Time to revisit this. 26 catches, 289 yards, 11.1 avg through 6 weeks. This isn't even that good in a ppr league.

 

Twisted

Footballguy
26 catches, 289 yards, 11.1 avg through 6 weeks. This isn't even that good in a ppr league.
I'm about to trade Coles. A few players in the deal, but it's essentially Coles for Reggie Williams. Needless to say, I don't think he'll ever be the same.
 

fatness

against the grain
Time to revisit this.

26 catches, 289 yards, 11.1 avg through 6 weeks. This isn't even that good in a ppr league.
Let's revisit both sides of the trade so far to see the disparity.Coles:

26 catches, 289 yards, 11.1 ypc, 1 TD

S. Moss:

33 catches, 631 yards, 19.1 ypc, 4 TD

 
Time for a good bump with the emergence of Brooks Bollinger...

Moss: 49 for 856 = 17.5

Coles: 41 for 440 = 11.0

Redman, Coles is making a fool out of you by averaging 11.0 not 10! :o

 

redman

Footballguy
I think it's hilarious that the haters aren't man enough to eat some well-deserved crow.
haters = Coles supporters or Coles critics? :confused: As long as I'm posting here, McCareins is up to 19 ypc right now . . .

 

valhallan

Footballguy
I think it's hilarious that the haters aren't man enough to eat some well-deserved crow.
haters = Coles supporters or Coles critics? :confused: As long as I'm posting here, McCareins is up to 19 ypc right now . . .
The Coles supporters that were hating on the Redskins offense, which they deemed to be the reason for LC's paltry YPR.
 

jurb26

Footballguy
I think it's hilarious that the haters aren't man enough to eat some well-deserved crow.
haters = Coles supporters or Coles critics? :confused: As long as I'm posting here, McCareins is up to 19 ypc right now . . .
The Coles supporters that were hating on the Redskins offense, which they deemed to be the reason for LC's paltry YPR.
Yeah it could be that he just isn't the playmaker we were all lead to believe he was. :yucky:
 

bojanglingus

Footballguy
It seems quite clear to me, watching Santana Moss this year, Coles is clearly no longer a gamebreaker. Injuries may be a factor, but his lack of long plays remains the same.Coles caught 90 balls for 950 yds and 1 td last year. This year, he is on pace for 82 catches, 898 yds and 4 TDs. Not much better.You can blame poor QB play, yet the YPC of other teammates and shear number of touches would suggest they aren't a large factor.

 
But I thought he was dumb for failing to treat the foot that was so clearly causing him problems,
The treatment/procedure is possibly career threatening, not a simple case -- I wouldn't take that kind of decision lightly either.
It's certainly his call. I wouldn't want to have that dilemma either. But for fantasy purposes, you simply can't deny that he's a different player from when he was last with the Jets in '02.
So Coles has a single season of 10 yards a catch. And then he follows that up with 10 yards a catch in a preseason game. And now he's a TE? Now he's different than in 2002 when he was with the Jets? Let's look at his stats. His first 3 years as the regular starter he had a YPC of 14.7, 14.2, and 14.7, respectively. Then he plays a season with Brunell as the starter for a big chunk of the season and his YPC goes down and now he's some kinda chump?

He's not the same as he was in 2002? In 2002, his last with the Jets, he had 1200 yards, 5 TD's, and a 14.2 YPC. In 2003 he had 1200 yards, 6 TD's, and a 14.7 ypc. So he had nearly identical seasons in his last season with NY and his first in Washington. Then that moron of an owner hires a coach that the game has passed by which is evidenced by that insane contract to a guy who couldn't throw 10 yards. No wonder the guy's YPC was so low. Oh, and Coles goes out and catches 90 balls with a nagging and painful injury. The guy did everything he could for that doomed franchise including playing through the pain.

I'm sorry, but a single season in yet another new scheme and one preseason game does not make this guy a TE or some sort of career 10 ypc receiver. Considering he has 3 seasons of over 14 ypc, I would think one would deduce that the single season of 10 ypc is the anomaly and not the standard for performance. But then again I didn't do so well in that Graduate class in Statistics.....
I've already given a more detailed breakdown of his stats than you did, and also mentioned the reasons for the change in the stats. You go ahead and draft your "stud". As for me, I'll be happy to draft him when (and if) he falls to me as my WR2/WR3 at best.
I missed your answer to this reply before. LOL@thinking that a graduate class in statistics means you know about football.I'd say :own3d:

 
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Raiders Fan

The Black Hole
They mentioned that Coles has become more of a possesion receiver this year. I think mainly due to the QB situation. Not sure if this is going to be the norm from here on out but I think this year given the QB situation it will be.. Bring this up next year when they have a starting QB.

 

Kiddnets

Footballguy
This is not even a fair analysis at this point - Coles had a injured weak armed Chad, a 45 yr old couch potato and a 3rd string QB that would probably not make most teams - throwing him the ball this year. Jerry Rice in his prime would not put up quality numbers with this offense. Give Coles a mulligan year IMO due to train wreck.BTW - he looks healthy to me - great acceleration on grabbing that TD pass....that he got boned on in the reversal!!!

 

Raiders Fan

The Black Hole
So far this year:

Coles: 53 577 10.9 2

S. Moss: 63 1053 16.7 6
Horrible to try and compare the 2.. Really is this year.. Coles has gone through 3 QB's now and a team that is struggling to run the ball.. The situations are 10 times different.. Swap them right now I bet you Coles out produces Moss..
 

TheFanatic

Footballguy
But I thought he was dumb for failing to treat the foot that was so clearly causing him problems,
The treatment/procedure is possibly career threatening, not a simple case -- I wouldn't take that kind of decision lightly either.
It's certainly his call. I wouldn't want to have that dilemma either. But for fantasy purposes, you simply can't deny that he's a different player from when he was last with the Jets in '02.
So Coles has a single season of 10 yards a catch. And then he follows that up with 10 yards a catch in a preseason game. And now he's a TE? Now he's different than in 2002 when he was with the Jets? Let's look at his stats. His first 3 years as the regular starter he had a YPC of 14.7, 14.2, and 14.7, respectively. Then he plays a season with Brunell as the starter for a big chunk of the season and his YPC goes down and now he's some kinda chump?

He's not the same as he was in 2002? In 2002, his last with the Jets, he had 1200 yards, 5 TD's, and a 14.2 YPC. In 2003 he had 1200 yards, 6 TD's, and a 14.7 ypc. So he had nearly identical seasons in his last season with NY and his first in Washington. Then that moron of an owner hires a coach that the game has passed by which is evidenced by that insane contract to a guy who couldn't throw 10 yards. No wonder the guy's YPC was so low. Oh, and Coles goes out and catches 90 balls with a nagging and painful injury. The guy did everything he could for that doomed franchise including playing through the pain.

I'm sorry, but a single season in yet another new scheme and one preseason game does not make this guy a TE or some sort of career 10 ypc receiver. Considering he has 3 seasons of over 14 ypc, I would think one would deduce that the single season of 10 ypc is the anomaly and not the standard for performance. But then again I didn't do so well in that Graduate class in Statistics.....
I've already given a more detailed breakdown of his stats than you did, and also mentioned the reasons for the change in the stats. You go ahead and draft your "stud". As for me, I'll be happy to draft him when (and if) he falls to me as my WR2/WR3 at best.
I missed your answer to this reply before. LOL@thinking that a graduate class in statistics means you know about football.I'd say :own3d:
I'm sorry, but you in no way countered the bolded section above. A single season and a preseason game does not have near the statistical power that 3 seasons does. But since you know so much about football this shouldn't be a factor for :rolleyes: I've said it once and I'll say it again, trying to get KRS to use statistics properly (if at all) is like trying to get a Chimp to use chopsticks...

And now when you jump in here and want to talk about how he's doing this year I will say that even without discussing the QB situation, 1 year and a partial year still does not have the same predictive power as the 3 years of 14+ ypc that he has under his belt.

 

redman

Footballguy
Amusing stats of the day: SEASON TOTALSLaveraneus Coles:

Code:
| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards    Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 2005 nyj |  15 |     0      0    0.0    0 |    69    766  11.1    5 |
Chris Cooley
Code:
| Year  TM |   G |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+-------------------------+| 2005 was |  15 |    69    766  11.1    7 |
:popcorn:
 
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packersfan

Footballguy
I don't care what Coles' stats are for the season; all I know is I started him last week and loved those 2 TD grabs. :D

 

redman

Footballguy
I don't care what Coles' stats are for the season; all I know is I started him last week and loved those 2 TD grabs. :D
Kudos. :thumbup: You caught lightning in a bottle. (And lightning doesn't strike twice in the same place! ;) )

 

fatness

against the grain
Laveranues Coles

Code:
Year  G  GS  No  Yards  Avg  Lg  TD  20+  40+  FD2005	15	15	69	766	11.1  31   5     5       0       49
Santana Moss
Code:
Year  G  GS  No  Yards  Avg  Lg  TD  20+  40+  FD2005	15	15	80	1400	17.5  78  9   23      9      58
Moss beats Coles in every category, even first downs.
 

Kiddnets

Footballguy
Laveranues Coles

Code:
Year  G  GS  No  Yards  Avg  Lg  TD  20+  40+  FD2005	15	15	69	766	11.1  31   5     5       0       49
Santana Moss
Code:
Year  G  GS  No  Yards  Avg  Lg  TD  20+  40+  FD2005	15	15	80	1400	17.5  78  9   23      9      58
Moss beats Coles in every category, even first downs.
I give limited credence to this years stats - let's see how Moss would fair with Brooks throwing to him for the year!
 

VintageGold

Footballguy
Mark Brunell has his career best touchdowns this year (22).Is that a product of his fantastic play...or Sanatana Moss?A wide receiver can still put up good numbers regardless of who plays at QB.Moss is better than Coles because he can 1. separate from DBs (as we saw on the Monday Night game vs Dallas), 2. run away from DBs after he catches the ball (YAC), 3. strike fear in DBs, opening up room for the rest of the offense (Cooley and Portis).Did Coles do that? Nope.

 

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