Solution Focused And Breaking The Blame / Defend Cycle (1 Viewer)

[Terminalxylem]

Do you follow some of these threads at all?  Nobody accepts any opposing views here.

I think it happens, but isn’t commonplace - most people are fairly fixed in their beliefs. During disputes, I’ve sometimes asked that question directly to other posters and people IRL. Every once in a while I’ll get answer, and sometimes it steers the discussion in a different direction. I also think about it regarding my own views on an issue. Absent a response, it’s a good cue to disengage. 

 

[MAC_32]

Do you follow some of these threads at all?  Nobody accepts any opposing views here.

'Nobody' is incorrect. The majority of those that dominate the conversation in here? Yeah, probably. My default setting is anti regulation, but tbh this place would be better if everyone had a post/day limit. 

 

[Summer Wheat]

I am hoping you guys really mean "nobody agrees with opposing views here"....I think that's what you mean or maybe "people aren't comfortable having opposing views".  Accepting a POV means it's something you buy into.  It's no longer "opposing".  If SW was trying to say one of the other things, then I agree and for those people it's an issue but I'd remove the "nobody".  I understand many of the opposing positions of mine...many of them I've held myself at times and because of life experiences or new information I have changed my mind.  There are some, however, I'll never understand.

Probably a better choice of words. 

It is almost comical at times when you see the script flipped and the actors flip their roles too. Bash, bash, bash, yet when their person makes a misstep it is excuse, excuse, excuse.  No matter who it is.

 

[sho nuff]

Is it possible when a decent number from each side are planning on watching "the other side's" election coverage to see if people melt down or for reactions?

 

[The Commish]

Probably a better choice of words. 

It is almost comical at times when you see the script flipped and the actors flip their roles too. Bash, bash, bash, yet when their person makes a misstep it is excuse, excuse, excuse.  No matter who it is.

They are "opposing" views for a reason right?  I think what you're talking about here though (and it happens EVERY election with EVERY shift in power) is how they really DO agree, but it's selectively and usually when the OTHER side is in power.   Take for example what's happening right this very second with Biden, Russia and the laptop.  Lots of people saying this is huge that shrugged off Trump's issues with Russia.  Lots of people poo pooing this thing (by default) saying there is nothing there.  Personally, I feel like both need (needed) to be investigated.  I don't think either was a witch hunt.  Where it draws tiresome for me is once the investigation is done and the results aren't what they were hoping for it's not dropped.  It's because the deep state is involved or whatever other conspiracy theory they can throw out there.  That's where I draw the line.

 

[GordonGekko]

.....As society and on the forums, we seem unable to move forward. My fear is we never break the cycle.

Because to break the cycle, it takes someone admitting they might have possibly been wrong. 

And that's impossible for most people. And it's super discouraging. And 100% unproductive in my opinion. 

Please help us be more solution focused. Or at the least, focused on understanding and moving forward. 

People need a common enemy. That creates cohesion. People bond through shared attrition, that happens on sports teams on all levels.

Outrage over political porn is a sign of a privileged society where natural selection no longer takes hold. Centuries of warfare, disease and famine culled the herd so to speak. We have a society full of people who would not normally survive the general natural selection process otherwise.

Alan David Moore's Watchmen becomes more and more terrifying as it becomes more and more predictive and accurate as current American culture moves forward.

Think about how humans survived throughout time. Do you think the meek and polite and fair survived? The strong and ruthless made it and those were our ancestors. So we all likely came down the family tree from rapists, murderers, thieves, criminals, opportunists, sociopaths and on and on and on. You had to be ruthless, calculating and lucky to survive in ancient times. That's wired deep in us, down to our genetic code.

Years ago, johnnycakes talked about his alcohol addiction. He said something no one should ever forget. That addiction doesn't disappear, you can only push it in a different direction.

Humans natural inclination to war and fight and argue and scheme doesn't disappear. We can't talk it out.. We can only push it in a different direction.

American's need a big bad, a big enemy, a focal point for our rage. A common enemy binds us together as Americans first and foremost.

 

[timschochet]

Alan David Moore's Watchmen becomes more and more terrifying as it becomes more and more predictive and accurate as current American culture moves forward.

Maybe Dr. Manhattan could teleport Trump out of the White House soon?

 

[Caesar]

Yeah.  

Back in the winter and early spring, I posted a lot more.  Now I'm a lot more sporadic.  

I know that coming here is going to be a lot of "Trump is awful," and at some point that discussion has just been had.  

Climate change thread:  Trump bad, no he's not.

SCOTUS thread:  Trump's bad, no he's not.  

Health Care:  Trump bad, no he's not.  

What's the point?

I see "the problem" is that people can't focus on the discussion at hand.  Everything is viewed within an overarching theme.  Masks are good.  I don't think there's a lot of honest intellectual debate against the masks.  I think that masks have somehow become symbolic of Trump.  Wearing masks proves Trump was wrong and bad.  And my God, if he'd just encourage masks...

And the Pro-Trump crowd needs to defend Trump.  And therefore, they feel the need to discredit masks.  And the Fauci quote just helps the Pro-Trump stance of masks maybe good maybe not.  

But we should just be able to focus on masks.  Take Trump out of it.  But he's the albatross.  The elephant in the room.  Somehow every discussion is framed in the context of Trump.  

I don't talk about masks being good to discuss masks.  I won't engage in any responses trying to elicit further discussion about the pro's/con's of masks.  My point is:  We keep making the mask discussion into a Trump discussion.  

We constantly lose sight of the issues that matter.  People spend more time debating each other's morals than the issues.  I don't approve of a lot of Trump's behavior.  But I never saw 2016 as "Is it ok to grab women against their will?" 

The Democrats impeach Trump in a partisan fashion--my god they're so crooked.  How can you vote for them?

The Republicans stand together in the senate--my god they're so crooked.  How can you vote for them??

The discussion always goes back to your character and morals.  And at that point, I don't want the discussion with you.  It's not everyone.  There are lots of guys that I've had great discussions with.  But there are plenty of others where the opposite is true.

Until we can stop questioning each other's morals and ethics and the like--we'll just keep pissing in the wind.

This nails it for me.  Nobody is really talking about the issues because they are too dug in on who to agree or disagree with.  Its why I don't post in the PSF, although I do read it until I get fed up, sometimes.

For the record, I do what I can to avoid back and forth BS on here.  I got into a little one once, and did some research.  Turns out I was wrong (traffic laws) and I went back into that thread and told the person they were right and I was wrong.  I did not spontaneously combust, nor did my wife leave me that day.  It all turned out ok.

Another example is that I made an unpopular, and admittedly snarky, comment in the original COVID thread.  I was immediately called names and blasted for it.  I could have dug in and defended it, but there was no point.  In this case, it was an opinion.  It wasn't presented as fact, and yet I was ostracized for it.  So be it.  I just stayed out of that thread once I understood people don't want to hear a differing opinion.  They just want reinforcement of what they already think.  

I'm glad that I know people on both sides that I can have real conversations in real life about the issues, but that ain't here.  Its sad, too, because there are some very intelligent people here on both sides, imo.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

When I put time and effort and thought into a thread and then it gets deleted (Not locked, deleted), I feel like thoughtful discussion isn't wanted. 

I honestly don't think you and the mods are on the same page in what you're trying to do.

 

[Joe Bryant]

When I put time and effort and thought into a thread and then it gets deleted (Not locked, deleted), I feel like thoughtful discussion isn't wanted. 

I honestly don't think you and the mods are on the same page in what you're trying to do.

Sorry but no idea what thread you're talking about. 

I'm pretty sure the moderators are on board with the idea of trying to break the blame / defend cycle.

Side note LOL. I saw the title and thought, "That looks like a good thread" and then saw I'd started it...