Some posters I have on ignore (1 Viewer)

[Slapdash]

Link: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=593381&p=13201194

Per "Burton" aka timscotroll in the gun control thread:

You know what this thread makes me wanna do? (Besides puke, that is!) It makes me want to go out and buy another half dozen AR-15s to add to my arsenal! Think I'm gonna do that this weekend. The United States Constitution grants all Americans a God-given right to own firearms. And when you try to take that away, or try to tell me how many rounds I can have, or that I have to report to some federal authority, that's whn I say, try it! When the government becomes a dictatorship, that's when we fight back. Somebody has to. If it takes armed resistance to keep freedom afloat, then so be it. And in case any of you think I'm overstating the threat, here's a little history: the Jews of Germany were a well-armed group who believed, above all things, in gun rights, because the Bible told them so. The first thing Hitler did when he took power in 1937 was seize all of the Jew guns. A few days later, they were all put to death in gas chambers. All of this is well-documented. We gun-owners are the Jews of the 21st century. Only this time we're not going to go away quietly.

That's some awful shtick

Some of the worst shtick ever.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So the same people that people are complaining about about want to see go are the same ones that you are obsessing about and keeping track of past posts and aliases? Seems weird. I think some of you would be bored if they left and really don't want that.

FBG should put Tim's picture on their subscription banner, he brings out the crazy and the money in people.

 

[timschochet]

8 user(s) are reading this topic

6 members, 0 guests, 2 anonymous users

• timschochet, ConnSKINS26, tonydead, tommyboy, Slapdash, Tim Burton

 

[Slapdash]

So the same people that people are complaining about about want to see go are the same ones that you are obsessing about and keeping track of past posts and aliases? Seems weird. I think some of you would be bored if they left and really don't want that.

What is creepy about people remembering things they've read?

 

[Fennis]

Tim, didn't you have an alias? Was it ever outed?

Then a few years back I had an alias to argue Tea Party views for fun for a couple months.

This is trolling imo, fwiw.

Having an alias?

NoUsing an alias to post things you don't actually believe to be true, just to incite and fish others into responding.

You're reading more into "for fun" than I am. But if that's what he was doing....agree

Link: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=593381&p=13201194

Tim actually created an alias to argue with himself. I hope the supporters of him are proud.

That's not the half of it.

Someone over at :e: has been responding to tim in recent threads by copying and pasting text from tim posts from years ago. He's been arguing with his own words for weeks now.

lol. If that is true, that is AWESOME. It's trolling, but I don't mind. I have certainly changed my position on several issues (I like to think it's because I've been better informed.) So it's entirely possible. If somebody is really spending the time to do this, hilarious.

I think its because frequently you don't believe the positions you take, you just like to "debate"

 

[timschochet]

No that's not true, Fennis.

 

[Fennis]

No that's not true, Fennis.

that's how I read it. maybe I am the only one

 

[sho nuff]

Burton sure posts in a lot of timscochet threads. I wonder if it was an attempt to keep the discussion going or maybe he really is that crazy?

Tim also had the Ayn Rand Fan alias.

Here he starts a thread as Ayn Rand Fan, the second post in the thread is him responding to it as Timschochet, and the third post is him getting called out on it: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=442950

He is a nut job.

Says the guy with multiple aliases who seems to just follow tim around everywhere.

 

[timschochet]

No that's not true, Fennis.

that's how I read it. maybe I am the only one

You're obviously not the only one, since others have made the same remark. But you'll have to take my word for it that it's not true.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

I think its because frequently you don't believe the positions you take, you just like to "debate"

No that's not true, Fennis.

 

[Frostillicus]

I like Tim.

 

[fred_1_15301]

I've been on this site for a long time and I honestly have no clue why people dislike Tim. Sure he's very opinionated but he also appears to be educated. He also doesn't come across as a jackass when he's in the midst of a debate.

 

[Jayrod]

I've been on this site for a long time and I honestly have no clue why people dislike Tim. Sure he's very opinionated but he also appears to be educated. He also doesn't come across as a jackass when he's in the midst of a debate.

Have you ever engaged him from the opposite side? He can be maddening. He reminds me of the type of lawyer who's primary objective is to drown opposing counsel in paperwork rather than actually see the case reach a verdict.

 

[Jayrod]

brohans let me tell you a story there was this guy back in the day who was always telling us about all these babes he was making time with always a town or two over and hey this is all before my face and trivago and stuff like that so you never really knew if they were telling the truth but hey so one weekend we figured hey lets go cruisin over in one of the towns this guy was telling us he had a girl in well we go there and not only is he not with a girl he was not even there so going home that night we see his car parked in his driveway guy did not have a girl he was just full of it you know what that guy was well he was a loser and whenever i think of tim i think he is probably like that guy from the trivago ads i never really get what in the hell that guy is doing but he sure waives his arms around a lot and looks like he is probably wearing to much smell good juice but hey anyhow at time i was driving a 63 rambler with three on the tree and a couple of pucks in the rear so she rode up some it was a pretty sweet ride take that to the bank brohans

Can I get my name changed to #1 Fan of SWC?

 

[jon_mx]

I've been on this site for a long time and I honestly have no clue why people dislike Tim. Sure he's very opinionated but he also appears to be educated. He also doesn't come across as a jackass when he's in the midst of a debate.

Tim is not that well educated. He is not a jackass but he often a pompous ### who thinks he is superior based upon the credentials of the guy he is cutting and pasting from.

 

[identikit]

I think its because frequently you don't believe the positions you take, you just like to "debate"

No that's not true, Fennis.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Tim is not that well educated. He is not a jackass but he often a pompous ### who thinks he is superior based upon the credentials of the guy he is cutting and pasting from.

Tim's okay, but nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is. The big problem is the inability to hear anyone else's point-of-view (look at the atrocious dialogue in his "novels" as proof).

 

[identikit]

Burton sure posts in a lot of timscochet threads. I wonder if it was an attempt to keep the discussion going or maybe he really is that crazy?

Tim also had the Ayn Rand Fan alias.

Here he starts a thread as Ayn Rand Fan, the second post in the thread is him responding to it as Timschochet, and the third post is him getting called out on it: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=442950

He is a nut job.

Says the guy with multiple aliases who seems to just follow tim around everywhere.

This defense of Tim should settle things for most everyone.

 

[Hang 10]

Link: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=593381&p=13201194

Per "Burton" aka timscotroll in the gun control thread:

You know what this thread makes me wanna do? (Besides puke, that is!) It makes me want to go out and buy another half dozen AR-15s to add to my arsenal! Think I'm gonna do that this weekend. The United States Constitution grants all Americans a God-given right to own firearms. And when you try to take that away, or try to tell me how many rounds I can have, or that I have to report to some federal authority, that's whn I say, try it! When the government becomes a dictatorship, that's when we fight back. Somebody has to. If it takes armed resistance to keep freedom afloat, then so be it. And in case any of you think I'm overstating the threat, here's a little history: the Jews of Germany were a well-armed group who believed, above all things, in gun rights, because the Bible told them so. The first thing Hitler did when he took power in 1937 was seize all of the Jew guns. A few days later, they were all put to death in gas chambers. All of this is well-documented. We gun-owners are the Jews of the 21st century. Only this time we're not going to go away quietly.

The origin of the Lies about Hitler thread?

 

[sho nuff]

Burton sure posts in a lot of timscochet threads. I wonder if it was an attempt to keep the discussion going or maybe he really is that crazy?

Tim also had the Ayn Rand Fan alias.

Here he starts a thread as Ayn Rand Fan, the second post in the thread is him responding to it as Timschochet, and the third post is him getting called out on it: http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=442950

He is a nut job.

Says the guy with multiple aliases who seems to just follow tim around everywhere.

This defense of Tim should settle things for most everyone.

Wasn't really defending him as much as commenting how much Beaver and his other aliases follow Tim around everywhere.

 

[Peyton Marino]

what does timsch actually do?

 

[jon_mx]

what does timsch actually do?

Some kind of agent involved in commerical real estate.

 

[fantasycurse42]

what does timsch actually do?

As far as I can tell, the chief complaint is he posts a lot, often about topics he is not an expert on, then takes a strong stance, but can flip flop over time... I hold no ill will at all. I think comparing him to Gassy Herpes is just being a #### for the sole purpose of being a ####.

 

[Peyton Marino]

what does timsch actually do?

As far as I can tell, the chief complaint is he posts a lot, often about topics he is not an expert on, then takes a strong stance, but can flip flop over time... I hold no ill will at all. I think comparing him to Gassy Herpes is just being a #### for the sole purpose of being a ####.

no no no... like what does he actually do.

 

[Peyton Marino]

what does timsch actually do?

Some kind of agent involved in commerical real estate.

this is what i meant... how does he have time to have all of these intellectual debates with himself on a fantasy football message board?

 

[timschochet]

I am a commercial real estate broker and property manager in southern California.

 

[fantasycurse42]

what does timsch actually do?

As far as I can tell, the chief complaint is he posts a lot, often about topics he is not an expert on, then takes a strong stance, but can flip flop over time... I hold no ill will at all. I think comparing him to Gassy Herpes is just being a #### for the sole purpose of being a ####.

no no no... like what does he actually do.

oops

 

[Politician Spock]

what does timsch actually do?

As far as I can tell, the chief complaint is he posts a lot, often about topics he is not an expert on, then takes a strong stance, but can flip flop over time... I hold no ill will at all. I think comparing him to Gassy Herpes is just being a #### for the sole purpose of being a ####.

A lot of people do that here. It's not really an issue.

What Tim does is a unique version of Strawman Arguing. If you post your opinion, he will then refer to someone else he read, or a group that has a specific belief, proceed to categorize you as holding the exact same beliefs as that someone else or group, and start an argument directed at you but retorting that someone else's or group's beliefs.

If you've never experienced it, I could see why you'd think Tim is the victim here. But those of us who have experienced it find it annoying as hell. You share an opinion, and Tim comes along to attack you by arguing points you didn't even make, let alone believe.

 

[fantasycurse42]

what does timsch actually do?

As far as I can tell, the chief complaint is he posts a lot, often about topics he is not an expert on, then takes a strong stance, but can flip flop over time... I hold no ill will at all. I think comparing him to Gassy Herpes is just being a #### for the sole purpose of being a ####.

A lot of people do that here. It's not really an issue.

What Tim does is a unique version of Strawman Arguing. If you post your opinion, he will then refer to someone else he read, or a group that has a specific belief, proceed to categorize you as holding the exact same beliefs as that someone else or group, and start an argument directed at you but retorting that someone else's or group's beliefs.

If you've never experienced it, I could see why you'd think Tim is the victim here. But those of us who have experienced it find it annoying as hell. You share an opinion, and Tim comes along to attack you by arguing points you didn't even make, let alone believe.

I never really argued with Tim, so I guess I can't speak on your points, but that would annoy me.

 

[NCCommish]

what does timsch actually do?

As far as I can tell, the chief complaint is he posts a lot, often about topics he is not an expert on, then takes a strong stance, but can flip flop over time... I hold no ill will at all. I think comparing him to Gassy Herpes is just being a #### for the sole purpose of being a ####.

A lot of people do that here. It's not really an issue.

What Tim does is a unique version of Strawman Arguing. If you post your opinion, he will then refer to someone else he read, or a group that has a specific belief, proceed to categorize you as holding the exact same beliefs as that someone else or group, and start an argument directed at you but retorting that someone else's or group's beliefs.

If you've never experienced it, I could see why you'd think Tim is the victim here. But those of us who have experienced it find it annoying as hell. You share an opinion, and Tim comes along to attack you by arguing points you didn't even make, let alone believe.

Yeah he's unique in that way here.

 

[jon_mx]

what does timsch actually do?

As far as I can tell, the chief complaint is he posts a lot, often about topics he is not an expert on, then takes a strong stance, but can flip flop over time... I hold no ill will at all. I think comparing him to Gassy Herpes is just being a #### for the sole purpose of being a ####.

A lot of people do that here. It's not really an issue.

What Tim does is a unique version of Strawman Arguing. If you post your opinion, he will then refer to someone else he read, or a group that has a specific belief, proceed to categorize you as holding the exact same beliefs as that someone else or group, and start an argument directed at you but retorting that someone else's or group's beliefs.

If you've never experienced it, I could see why you'd think Tim is the victim here. But those of us who have experienced it find it annoying as hell. You share an opinion, and Tim comes along to attack you by arguing points you didn't even make, let alone believe.

You sound like the typical tea-partier....

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

I am a commercial real estate broker and property manager in southern California.

Slum lord?

 

[NREC34]

I read that he's back under a different name. I was surprised when I learned this because, even though I didn't follow a lot of the lhucks stuff, this poster didn't remind me of lhucks very much.

quite a few people think fantasycurse is him, but I don't see it.

he practically confirmed it in the thank you fantasycurse42 thread yesterday but you locked it before he could.

I thought we were going to have an "I ordered the code red" moment but then it got locked.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I read that he's back under a different name. I was surprised when I learned this because, even though I didn't follow a lot of the lhucks stuff, this poster didn't remind me of lhucks very much.

quite a few people think fantasycurse is him, but I don't see it.

he practically confirmed it in the thank you fantasycurse42 thread yesterday but you locked it before he could.

I thought we were going to have an "I ordered the code red" moment but then it got locked.

This is stupid piling on stupid.

 

[jon_mx]

I am a commercial real estate broker and property manager in southern California.

Slum lord?

to illegals.

 

[timschochet]

I reject the criticism. Everyone in political arguments can make the mistake of wrongfully categorizing their opponents; it happens to me all the time. And Ive been guilty of it as well. But i don't believe it's especially prevalent in my arguments, and if someone points out to me that I am mischaracterising their POV I will apologize for having done so and stop.

It's also important to remember that in a lot of these debates there are several conversations going on at the same time. If 4 or 5 people are all responding to a point that I made, it can be difficult to distinguish their responses and recognize nuance. If I fail to do so, it's not deliberate.

 

[jon_mx]

I reject the criticism. Everyone in political arguments can make the mistake of wrongfully categorizing their opponents; it happens to me all the time. And Ive been guilty of it as well. But i don't believe it's especially prevalent in my arguments, and if someone points out to me that I am mischaracterising their POV I will apologize for having done so and stop.

It's also important to remember that in a lot of these debates there are several conversations going on at the same time. If 4 or 5 people are all responding to a point that I made, it can be difficult to distinguish their responses and recognize nuance. If I fail to do so, it's not deliberate.

Your Burton character does not help your case. I think you do try to be fair to other posters, but you do fall back on the 'tea party' or the 'denier' label way too much, and you do try to discredit people's opinions based upon being on the same side of the issue as them.

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

I read that he's back under a different name. I was surprised when I learned this because, even though I didn't follow a lot of the lhucks stuff, this poster didn't remind me of lhucks very much.

quite a few people think fantasycurse is him, but I don't see it.

he practically confirmed it in the thank you fantasycurse42 thread yesterday but you locked it before he could.

I thought we were going to have an "I ordered the code red" moment but then it got locked.

Did he post a Pac 12 flag or link to a pink shirt with a popped collar?

 

[timschochet]

I reject the criticism. Everyone in political arguments can make the mistake of wrongfully categorizing their opponents; it happens to me all the time. And Ive been guilty of it as well. But i don't believe it's especially prevalent in my arguments, and if someone points out to me that I am mischaracterising their POV I will apologize for having done so and stop.

It's also important to remember that in a lot of these debates there are several conversations going on at the same time. If 4 or 5 people are all responding to a point that I made, it can be difficult to distinguish their responses and recognize nuance. If I fail to do so, it's not deliberate.

Your Burton character does not help your case. I think you do try to be fair to other posters, but you do fall back on the 'tea party' or the 'denier' label way too much, and you do try to discredit people's opinions based upon being on the same side of the issue as them.

The Burton character was for 2 weeks in 2010, and returned for one rather silly post in 2012. I don't think it's representative of my serious arguments here.

With regard to the Tea Party, what typically happens is I might initiate a discussion by criticizing some Tea Party action, and then when some conservative types rush in to defend it, it's natural for me to assume that they support the Tea Party unless and until they state otherwise.

With regard to the "denier" claim, I assume you're referring to global warming. That is a more nuanced topic. Yes, there are people who believe global warming is occuring, but they either don't know or are skeptical of how much of it's man made. And there are people who believe that man-made global warming is occuring, but are skeptical as to how harmful it might be. And there are people who believe that it's occuring, but don't think it's serious enough to warrant government action. And there are people who don't believe it's occuring at all. Yet despite the distinctions, all of these people end up making the exact same arguments in the global warming threads, and they all tend to mock or question the science in the exact same manner, so it's hard not to group them together as deniers. But for myself, I try to be fair.

 

[Guest]

I think I had Hucks on ignore for about 30 seconds, before thinking to myself, "really?" ETA: I did report one Hucks post that was just a random PAC drop into an unrelated thread. I felt bad for doing that.

Tim use to get under my skin, but doesn't anymore because it's just Tim being Tim.

MC has me shuked a little because I can't decide if he is real or schtick. I guess the not knowing part is interesting and a form of entertainment to me.

 

[Joe T]

what does timsch actually do?

As far as I can tell, the chief complaint is he posts a lot, often about topics he is not an expert on, then takes a strong stance, but can flip flop over time... I hold no ill will at all. I think comparing him to Gassy Herpes is just being a #### for the sole purpose of being a ####.

A lot of people do that here. It's not really an issue.

What Tim does is a unique version of Strawman Arguing. If you post your opinion, he will then refer to someone else he read, or a group that has a specific belief, proceed to categorize you as holding the exact same beliefs as that someone else or group, and start an argument directed at you but retorting that someone else's or group's beliefs.

If you've never experienced it, I could see why you'd think Tim is the victim here. But those of us who have experienced it find it annoying as hell. You share an opinion, and Tim comes along to attack you by arguing points you didn't even make, let alone believe.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

If I could add one thing it would be that he is pretty much a walking contradiction which this thread has proven pretty clearly the last couple of pages.

I think he may have a mild form of Schizophrenia combined with ADD and / or some other disorder(s).

To be fair, I think he has gotten better in the last year about not starting so many repeat thread topics. So at least there is some progress.

I've found this board to be a more enjoyable place if I avoid his posts, but even that is difficult given the sheer volume of his posts.

 

[Slapdash]

I reject the criticism. Everyone in political arguments can make the mistake of wrongfully categorizing their opponents; it happens to me all the time. And Ive been guilty of it as well. But i don't believe it's especially prevalent in my arguments, and if someone points out to me that I am mischaracterising their POV I will apologize for having done so and stop.

Complete BS

 

[joffer]

there's a little Tim in all of us.

 

[Hang 10]

You know what this thread makes me wanna do? (Besides puke, that is!) It makes me want to go out and buy another half dozen AR-15s to add to my arsenal! Think I'm gonna do that this weekend. The United States Constitution grants all Americans a God-given right to own firearms. And when you try to take that away, or try to tell me how many rounds I can have, or that I have to report to some federal authority, that's whn I say, try it! When the government becomes a dictatorship, that's when we fight back. Somebody has to. If it takes armed resistance to keep freedom afloat, then so be it. And in case any of you think I'm overstating the threat, here's a little history: the Jews of Germany were a well-armed group who believed, above all things, in gun rights, because the Bible told them so. The first thing Hitler did when he took power in 1937 was seize all of the Jew guns. A few days later, they were all put to death in gas chambers. All of this is well-documented. We gun-owners are the Jews of the 21st century. Only this time we're not going to go away quietly.

I keep reading all these lies and misunderstandings about Adolf Hitler in nearly every political thread. So I decided it was important to set the record straight:

3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

Sucks when your alias is spreading false information and then you're forced to clean up the mess.

 

[timschochet]

I think I had Hucks on ignore for about 30 seconds, before thinking to myself, "really?"

I've never understood why exactly we have an ignore function in this forum. As someone wrote earlier, do you really need the technology to ignore somebody? Can't you just do it yourself?

When you place somebody on ignore, you are effectively acknowledging that they really bother you. Why should anyone really bother you in an internet discussion forum? No matter what they post? Never gotten this.

 

[timschochet]

You know what this thread makes me wanna do? (Besides puke, that is!) It makes me want to go out and buy another half dozen AR-15s to add to my arsenal! Think I'm gonna do that this weekend. The United States Constitution grants all Americans a God-given right to own firearms. And when you try to take that away, or try to tell me how many rounds I can have, or that I have to report to some federal authority, that's whn I say, try it! When the government becomes a dictatorship, that's when we fight back. Somebody has to. If it takes armed resistance to keep freedom afloat, then so be it. And in case any of you think I'm overstating the threat, here's a little history: the Jews of Germany were a well-armed group who believed, above all things, in gun rights, because the Bible told them so. The first thing Hitler did when he took power in 1937 was seize all of the Jew guns. A few days later, they were all put to death in gas chambers. All of this is well-documented. We gun-owners are the Jews of the 21st century. Only this time we're not going to go away quietly.

I keep reading all these lies and misunderstandings about Adolf Hitler in nearly every political thread. So I decided it was important to set the record straight:

3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

Sucks when your alias is spreading false information and then you're forced to clean up the mess.

Wow. Your sarcasm meter is well below zero.

 

[timschochet]

what does timsch actually do?

As far as I can tell, the chief complaint is he posts a lot, often about topics he is not an expert on, then takes a strong stance, but can flip flop over time... I hold no ill will at all. I think comparing him to Gassy Herpes is just being a #### for the sole purpose of being a ####.

A lot of people do that here. It's not really an issue.

What Tim does is a unique version of Strawman Arguing. If you post your opinion, he will then refer to someone else he read, or a group that has a specific belief, proceed to categorize you as holding the exact same beliefs as that someone else or group, and start an argument directed at you but retorting that someone else's or group's beliefs.

If you've never experienced it, I could see why you'd think Tim is the victim here. But those of us who have experienced it find it annoying as hell. You share an opinion, and Tim comes along to attack you by arguing points you didn't even make, let alone believe.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

If I could add one thing it would be that he is pretty much a walking contradiction which this thread has proven pretty clearly the last couple of pages.

I think he may have a mild form of Schizophrenia combined with ADD and / or some other disorder(s).

To be fair, I think he has gotten better in the last year about not starting so many repeat thread topics. So at least there is some progress.

I've found this board to be a more enjoyable place if I avoid his posts, but even that is difficult given the sheer volume of his posts.

I am not schizoprhrenic!

Neither am I!

 

[jamny]

I think I had Hucks on ignore for about 30 seconds, before thinking to myself, "really?"

I've never understood why exactly we have an ignore function in this forum. As someone wrote earlier, do you really need the technology to ignore somebody? Can't you just do it yourself?When you place somebody on ignore, you are effectively acknowledging that they really bother you. Why should anyone really bother you in an internet discussion forum? No matter what they post? Never gotten this.

While I don't have anyone on ignore, I can see the use of it. Not everyone has the time to sift through the BS.

 

[Politician Spock]

Why should anyone really bother you in an internet discussion forum? No matter what they post? Never gotten this.

If you understood why, then you'd probably stop doing things that bother people. You do it because you don't get it.

 

[timschochet]

I think I had Hucks on ignore for about 30 seconds, before thinking to myself, "really?"

I've never understood why exactly we have an ignore function in this forum. As someone wrote earlier, do you really need the technology to ignore somebody? Can't you just do it yourself?When you place somebody on ignore, you are effectively acknowledging that they really bother you. Why should anyone really bother you in an internet discussion forum? No matter what they post? Never gotten this.

While I don't have anyone on ignore, I can see the use of it. Not everyone has the time to sift through the BS.

Really? You don't like what you're reading, you scroll down. How long does that take?