Soriano Refuses To Play Outfield (1 Viewer)

[Capella]

And the income line to where you are able to make your own decisions is when you're financially independent and you can go into business for yourself.

So, when Alfonso is ready to buy his own team, he can start calling the shots.

Really? So you will forever do whatever you are told and never seek another job until the day that you run your own firm?Or if you don't like something, will you try to do something about it, even though you don't run the place?

Not the same thing. See my post above.And yes, if I don't like how a firm is run, I can:

a) leave

b) start my own firm

c) suck it up and take it

Not many other options.

 

[Newman]

Same old story here.  Many people on this board don't seem to think that professional athletes should have the ability to make their own decisions regarding their own careers.  See also:  the thousands of haters who come out of the woodwork whenever an NFL player exercises his right to hold out.  I wonder if its racism or envy, probably a little bit of both.

I'd like to see this addressed, rather than the continued name calling. Why can't Alfonso Soriano decide what's best for his career? Makes too much money? Is that why? What's the income line where you aren't allowed to make your own decisions anymore?

You're the one calling conspiracy. Can you provide any support that MLB was trying to prop up Hicks? That argument seems ludicrous to me.

Support? It's my own opinion. Look at the deal. The MLB controls and operates the Washington Nationals. The Washington Nationals trade their best and most promising player for an overpriced, overrated second baseman who they don't need, who doesn't want to play for them, and who clearly will be gone sooner than later. Call it whatever you want, it's just the way I see it.Granted, Jim Bowden has proven himself to be a complete moron before, but this deal always stunk to me.

You don't have to believe me though, who the hell am I?

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. But to say that MLB effectively orchestrated that deal for Hicks' benefit is way the #### out there in my opinion.

 

[JZilla]

Same old story here.  Many people on this board don't seem to think that professional athletes should have the ability to make their own decisions regarding their own careers.  See also:  the thousands of haters who come out of the woodwork whenever an NFL player exercises his right to hold out.  I wonder if its racism or envy, probably a little bit of both.

I'd like to see this addressed, rather than the continued name calling. Why can't Alfonso Soriano decide what's best for his career? Makes too much money? Is that why? What's the income line where you aren't allowed to make your own decisions anymore?

Soriano has a contract with a major-league club, that calls (I assume) for him to play for the Nationals for a set amount of money, and within that, follow the rules set out by his manager and general manager that they think will make the team better. It doesn't matter what he thinks.I signed a contract at my last job. It wasn't anywhere near as detailed as a MLB contract is, but it called for me to do the tasks and duties that my boss thought would further the purpose of the company I worked for. That wasn't cleaning toilets or sweeping floors, but it did say I couldn't practice law out on my own while employed and other restrictions that aren't really necessary here.

And if I didn't want to follow that, I didn't have a job. Pretty simple. I could go work on my own.

Soriano doesn't have that freedom. You and I have the freedom to get another job for the same or even more money. Of course you are all of the line SORIANO IS SO OVERPAID HE SHOULD JUST GO WHERE HE'S SENT, DO WHAT HE'S TOLD AND S-T-F-U. Yeah, he's only devoted his entire life to the game of baseball and spends every day from February to October living no life except that. I guess he should only bring in $40K.Personally, I respect that fact that he is doing what he can to make his own career decision.

Hey, he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. I didn't say that was unfair. Did I ever say he should get paid?

You sure seem to be taking this to heart. I don't recall saying you said he should get paid. You're right. You and I have the freedom to work where we choose. He doesn't. That was collectively bargained away by his union, and that's one of the rights he gave up when he signed that contract with the New York Yankees. And he knew that, like every player does, when he signed that contract.

There's really nothing more to it than that.

There is more to it than that. He is being ordered to change positions, and he doesn't want to, so - as of this evening anyway - he isn't. And he may not get paid for it. What does that make him? To you it makes him all kinds of bad words. To me it makes him a man who is making his own decision.

 

[Capella]

Same old story here.  Many people on this board don't seem to think that professional athletes should have the ability to make their own decisions regarding their own careers.  See also:  the thousands of haters who come out of the woodwork whenever an NFL player exercises his right to hold out.  I wonder if its racism or envy, probably a little bit of both.

I'd like to see this addressed, rather than the continued name calling. Why can't Alfonso Soriano decide what's best for his career? Makes too much money? Is that why? What's the income line where you aren't allowed to make your own decisions anymore?

Soriano has a contract with a major-league club, that calls (I assume) for him to play for the Nationals for a set amount of money, and within that, follow the rules set out by his manager and general manager that they think will make the team better. It doesn't matter what he thinks.I signed a contract at my last job. It wasn't anywhere near as detailed as a MLB contract is, but it called for me to do the tasks and duties that my boss thought would further the purpose of the company I worked for. That wasn't cleaning toilets or sweeping floors, but it did say I couldn't practice law out on my own while employed and other restrictions that aren't really necessary here.

And if I didn't want to follow that, I didn't have a job. Pretty simple. I could go work on my own.

Soriano doesn't have that freedom. You and I have the freedom to get another job for the same or even more money. Of course you are all of the line SORIANO IS SO OVERPAID HE SHOULD JUST GO WHERE HE'S SENT, DO WHAT HE'S TOLD AND S-T-F-U. Yeah, he's only devoted his entire life to the game of baseball and spends every day from February to October living no life except that. I guess he should only bring in $40K.Personally, I respect that fact that he is doing what he can to make his own career decision.

Hey, he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. I didn't say that was unfair. Did I ever say he should get paid?

You sure seem to be taking this to heart. I don't recall saying you said he should get paid. You're right. You and I have the freedom to work where we choose. He doesn't. That was collectively bargained away by his union, and that's one of the rights he gave up when he signed that contract with the New York Yankees. And he knew that, like every player does, when he signed that contract.

There's really nothing more to it than that.

There is more to it than that. He is being ordered to change positions, and he doesn't want to, so - as of this evening anyway - he isn't. And he may not get paid for it. What does that make him? To you it makes him all kinds of bad words. To me it makes him a man who is making his own decision.

Link? Why are you putting words in my mouth?And who cares what he wants? I don't want to be up in 6 hours to go to work. But I better be there, or I won't get paid.

 

[JZilla]

Same old story here.  Many people on this board don't seem to think that professional athletes should have the ability to make their own decisions regarding their own careers.  See also:  the thousands of haters who come out of the woodwork whenever an NFL player exercises his right to hold out.  I wonder if its racism or envy, probably a little bit of both.

I'd like to see this addressed, rather than the continued name calling. Why can't Alfonso Soriano decide what's best for his career? Makes too much money? Is that why? What's the income line where you aren't allowed to make your own decisions anymore?

You're the one calling conspiracy. Can you provide any support that MLB was trying to prop up Hicks? That argument seems ludicrous to me.

Support? It's my own opinion. Look at the deal. The MLB controls and operates the Washington Nationals. The Washington Nationals trade their best and most promising player for an overpriced, overrated second baseman who they don't need, who doesn't want to play for them, and who clearly will be gone sooner than later. Call it whatever you want, it's just the way I see it.Granted, Jim Bowden has proven himself to be a complete moron before, but this deal always stunk to me.

You don't have to believe me though, who the hell am I?

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. But to say that MLB effectively orchestrated that deal for Hicks' benefit is way the #### out there in my opinion.

Alrighty. Good thing about America, we can have different opinions, and it's OK. And a man can decide not to play the outfield, and that's OK too.What's you guys' opinion on Giambi refusing to report to the minors last year? All of you Soriano bashers. Just want to make sure you're consistent.

 

[JZilla]

Same old story here.  Many people on this board don't seem to think that professional athletes should have the ability to make their own decisions regarding their own careers.  See also:  the thousands of haters who come out of the woodwork whenever an NFL player exercises his right to hold out.  I wonder if its racism or envy, probably a little bit of both.

I'd like to see this addressed, rather than the continued name calling. Why can't Alfonso Soriano decide what's best for his career? Makes too much money? Is that why? What's the income line where you aren't allowed to make your own decisions anymore?

Soriano has a contract with a major-league club, that calls (I assume) for him to play for the Nationals for a set amount of money, and within that, follow the rules set out by his manager and general manager that they think will make the team better. It doesn't matter what he thinks.I signed a contract at my last job. It wasn't anywhere near as detailed as a MLB contract is, but it called for me to do the tasks and duties that my boss thought would further the purpose of the company I worked for. That wasn't cleaning toilets or sweeping floors, but it did say I couldn't practice law out on my own while employed and other restrictions that aren't really necessary here.

And if I didn't want to follow that, I didn't have a job. Pretty simple. I could go work on my own.

Soriano doesn't have that freedom. You and I have the freedom to get another job for the same or even more money. Of course you are all of the line SORIANO IS SO OVERPAID HE SHOULD JUST GO WHERE HE'S SENT, DO WHAT HE'S TOLD AND S-T-F-U. Yeah, he's only devoted his entire life to the game of baseball and spends every day from February to October living no life except that. I guess he should only bring in $40K.Personally, I respect that fact that he is doing what he can to make his own career decision.

Hey, he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. I didn't say that was unfair. Did I ever say he should get paid?

You sure seem to be taking this to heart. I don't recall saying you said he should get paid. You're right. You and I have the freedom to work where we choose. He doesn't. That was collectively bargained away by his union, and that's one of the rights he gave up when he signed that contract with the New York Yankees. And he knew that, like every player does, when he signed that contract.

There's really nothing more to it than that.

There is more to it than that. He is being ordered to change positions, and he doesn't want to, so - as of this evening anyway - he isn't. And he may not get paid for it. What does that make him? To you it makes him all kinds of bad words. To me it makes him a man who is making his own decision.

Link? Why are you putting words in my mouth?And who cares what he wants? I don't want to be up in 6 hours to go to work. But I better be there, or I won't get paid.

Exactly. And neither will he. So what's the problem? Did you come into the thread without a point again?

 

[Capella]

Same old story here.  Many people on this board don't seem to think that professional athletes should have the ability to make their own decisions regarding their own careers.  See also:  the thousands of haters who come out of the woodwork whenever an NFL player exercises his right to hold out.  I wonder if its racism or envy, probably a little bit of both.

I'd like to see this addressed, rather than the continued name calling. Why can't Alfonso Soriano decide what's best for his career? Makes too much money? Is that why? What's the income line where you aren't allowed to make your own decisions anymore?

Soriano has a contract with a major-league club, that calls (I assume) for him to play for the Nationals for a set amount of money, and within that, follow the rules set out by his manager and general manager that they think will make the team better. It doesn't matter what he thinks.I signed a contract at my last job. It wasn't anywhere near as detailed as a MLB contract is, but it called for me to do the tasks and duties that my boss thought would further the purpose of the company I worked for. That wasn't cleaning toilets or sweeping floors, but it did say I couldn't practice law out on my own while employed and other restrictions that aren't really necessary here.

And if I didn't want to follow that, I didn't have a job. Pretty simple. I could go work on my own.

Soriano doesn't have that freedom. You and I have the freedom to get another job for the same or even more money. Of course you are all of the line SORIANO IS SO OVERPAID HE SHOULD JUST GO WHERE HE'S SENT, DO WHAT HE'S TOLD AND S-T-F-U. Yeah, he's only devoted his entire life to the game of baseball and spends every day from February to October living no life except that. I guess he should only bring in $40K.Personally, I respect that fact that he is doing what he can to make his own career decision.

Hey, he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. I didn't say that was unfair. Did I ever say he should get paid?

You sure seem to be taking this to heart. I don't recall saying you said he should get paid. You're right. You and I have the freedom to work where we choose. He doesn't. That was collectively bargained away by his union, and that's one of the rights he gave up when he signed that contract with the New York Yankees. And he knew that, like every player does, when he signed that contract.

There's really nothing more to it than that.

There is more to it than that. He is being ordered to change positions, and he doesn't want to, so - as of this evening anyway - he isn't. And he may not get paid for it. What does that make him? To you it makes him all kinds of bad words. To me it makes him a man who is making his own decision.

Link? Why are you putting words in my mouth?And who cares what he wants? I don't want to be up in 6 hours to go to work. But I better be there, or I won't get paid.

Exactly. And neither will he. So what's the problem? Did you come into the thread without a point again?

You're drunk aren't you?

 

[JZilla]

Same old story here.  Many people on this board don't seem to think that professional athletes should have the ability to make their own decisions regarding their own careers.  See also:  the thousands of haters who come out of the woodwork whenever an NFL player exercises his right to hold out.  I wonder if its racism or envy, probably a little bit of both.

I'd like to see this addressed, rather than the continued name calling. Why can't Alfonso Soriano decide what's best for his career? Makes too much money? Is that why? What's the income line where you aren't allowed to make your own decisions anymore?

Soriano has a contract with a major-league club, that calls (I assume) for him to play for the Nationals for a set amount of money, and within that, follow the rules set out by his manager and general manager that they think will make the team better. It doesn't matter what he thinks.I signed a contract at my last job. It wasn't anywhere near as detailed as a MLB contract is, but it called for me to do the tasks and duties that my boss thought would further the purpose of the company I worked for. That wasn't cleaning toilets or sweeping floors, but it did say I couldn't practice law out on my own while employed and other restrictions that aren't really necessary here.

And if I didn't want to follow that, I didn't have a job. Pretty simple. I could go work on my own.

Soriano doesn't have that freedom. You and I have the freedom to get another job for the same or even more money. Of course you are all of the line SORIANO IS SO OVERPAID HE SHOULD JUST GO WHERE HE'S SENT, DO WHAT HE'S TOLD AND S-T-F-U. Yeah, he's only devoted his entire life to the game of baseball and spends every day from February to October living no life except that. I guess he should only bring in $40K.Personally, I respect that fact that he is doing what he can to make his own career decision.

Hey, he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. I didn't say that was unfair. Did I ever say he should get paid?

You sure seem to be taking this to heart. I don't recall saying you said he should get paid. You're right. You and I have the freedom to work where we choose. He doesn't. That was collectively bargained away by his union, and that's one of the rights he gave up when he signed that contract with the New York Yankees. And he knew that, like every player does, when he signed that contract.

There's really nothing more to it than that.

There is more to it than that. He is being ordered to change positions, and he doesn't want to, so - as of this evening anyway - he isn't. And he may not get paid for it. What does that make him? To you it makes him all kinds of bad words. To me it makes him a man who is making his own decision.

Link? Why are you putting words in my mouth?And who cares what he wants? I don't want to be up in 6 hours to go to work. But I better be there, or I won't get paid.

Exactly. And neither will he. So what's the problem? Did you come into the thread without a point again?

You're drunk aren't you?

No, why?You're the one who hasn't made a point.

 

[Capella]

Same old story here.  Many people on this board don't seem to think that professional athletes should have the ability to make their own decisions regarding their own careers.  See also:  the thousands of haters who come out of the woodwork whenever an NFL player exercises his right to hold out.  I wonder if its racism or envy, probably a little bit of both.

I'd like to see this addressed, rather than the continued name calling. Why can't Alfonso Soriano decide what's best for his career? Makes too much money? Is that why? What's the income line where you aren't allowed to make your own decisions anymore?

Soriano has a contract with a major-league club, that calls (I assume) for him to play for the Nationals for a set amount of money, and within that, follow the rules set out by his manager and general manager that they think will make the team better. It doesn't matter what he thinks.I signed a contract at my last job. It wasn't anywhere near as detailed as a MLB contract is, but it called for me to do the tasks and duties that my boss thought would further the purpose of the company I worked for. That wasn't cleaning toilets or sweeping floors, but it did say I couldn't practice law out on my own while employed and other restrictions that aren't really necessary here.

And if I didn't want to follow that, I didn't have a job. Pretty simple. I could go work on my own.

Soriano doesn't have that freedom. You and I have the freedom to get another job for the same or even more money. Of course you are all of the line SORIANO IS SO OVERPAID HE SHOULD JUST GO WHERE HE'S SENT, DO WHAT HE'S TOLD AND S-T-F-U. Yeah, he's only devoted his entire life to the game of baseball and spends every day from February to October living no life except that. I guess he should only bring in $40K.Personally, I respect that fact that he is doing what he can to make his own career decision.

Hey, he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. I didn't say that was unfair. Did I ever say he should get paid?

You sure seem to be taking this to heart. I don't recall saying you said he should get paid. You're right. You and I have the freedom to work where we choose. He doesn't. That was collectively bargained away by his union, and that's one of the rights he gave up when he signed that contract with the New York Yankees. And he knew that, like every player does, when he signed that contract.

There's really nothing more to it than that.

There is more to it than that. He is being ordered to change positions, and he doesn't want to, so - as of this evening anyway - he isn't. And he may not get paid for it. What does that make him? To you it makes him all kinds of bad words. To me it makes him a man who is making his own decision.

Link? Why are you putting words in my mouth?And who cares what he wants? I don't want to be up in 6 hours to go to work. But I better be there, or I won't get paid.

Exactly. And neither will he. So what's the problem? Did you come into the thread without a point again?

You're drunk aren't you?

No, why?You're the one who hasn't made a point.

You said you wanted that point addressed. I addressed it. You really haven't replied to that, just sort of ducked it all while taking unnecessary shots at me.

 

[JZilla]

You said you wanted that point addressed. I addressed it. You really haven't replied to that, just sort of ducked it all while taking unnecessary shots at me.

Not really. Seems to me like you agree with me... that he can make his own decision and choose not to get paid in the process. I was that confused since you chose to approach my statements with an argumentative stance.I wasn't really looking at all of this from the sheer cash-only standpoint until you came along. I was only looking at it from the point of a human being having a right to make a choice, which others in this thread would seem to deny him.

But of course, if he refuses to play, he should not get paid, so you and I agree there. Good for us.

Don't take it personal, there have been a lot of different viewpoints to address here. You would not have been the first to say he doesn't have the right to refuse to play, so you can see why I maybe thought you were saying that.

 

[pigskin pimp]

Same old story here. Many people on this board don't seem to think that professional athletes should have the ability to make their own decisions regarding their own careers. See also: the thousands of haters who come out of the woodwork whenever an NFL player exercises his right to hold out. I wonder if its racism or envy, probably a little bit of both.

The Wilkerson/Soriano deal was a favor by MLB (who owns the Nationals) to Tom Hicks, the owner of the Rangers. They got the Rangers out from under the Soriano contract, which was yet another stupid salary move on their part, while still giving them some serious value in Wilkerson as well as utility man Sledge and a pitching prospect. No other team would have made that deal for Soriano. All this to the detriment of Nationals fans who can only sit and wait for real ownership to come along and hope that we don't get somebody like, well, Tom Hicks.

Alfonso Soriano knows what he wants and this isn't it. If I was him I would suck it up and play but I'm not and I respect his position, especially given that he expressed it so strongly before the trade was made, and the rich white men who made the trade disregarded his position just like many of you are now. Get out there and lace em up, boy!

I hope you are all asked to clean the crappers by your boss tomorrow afternoon. Hey you're getting paid, just do it.

Yeah, because getting paid millions for playing the OF is so demeaning compared to getting paid millions for playing 2B.

It is demeaning when you know you're just another OFer in a league full of OFers that produce numbers the same as you.As a 2Ber, Soriano was at the TOP, with only now that decent 2Bers are beginning to emerge (Utley, Cantu, Weeks, Cano, etc.).

The Nats are not only asking him to take one for the team, they are also asking him to lose his star power. As a second baseman, Soriano is still an All Star. As an outfielder, he is hard pressed to make the All Star team this year or any other year.

 

[Capella]

Not really. Seems to me like you agree with me... that he can make his own decision and choose not to get paid in the process. I was that confused since you chose to approach my statements with an argumentative stance.

I wasn't really looking at all of this from the sheer cash-only standpoint until you came along. I was only looking at it from the point of a human being having a right to make a choice, which others in this thread would seem to deny him.

But of course, if he refuses to play, he should not get paid, so you and I agree there. Good for us.

Jesus, don't think I ever argued with you before.

 

[JZilla]

And of course, Newman is right, the owners of major league baseball would never DREAM of doing anything shady. Man, maybe I am drinking.

 

[millerarm]

I love me some chicken. Fried, baked, don't matter to me. Yum.

And for the record, Soriano right, Bowden wrong.

 

[themikus]

Soriano would have played outfield for the Yankees, but really, why should he for the Nats? Spare me your sanctimonious crap the lot of you about a "contract". If he didn't want to play second base, that would be some sort of violation, but the mere fact he's compensated doesn't give the team carte blanche to tell him what to play.

Think about it, if they told him to pitch, and he didn't, what would you say? He'd be putting his long term career at risk playing an unfamilar position.

But to make it a little more personal, think of whatever job you do, maybe you're making 75 grand or more, nice white collar job. If the company wants to reassign you to the janitorial staff at the same salary, do you take it since you are being paid, or do you tell them to pound salt and do all you can to maintain your dignity.

Now yes, I realize 100 thou or so is a lot different from 10 million, and Soriano's dignity isn't being threatened here. But the greater pararell is, most of us would take some pride in what we do professionally and ideally will do things not just for a paycheck, but also for some measure of integrity.

Where I'd be curious is to see if Sori returned to his beloved Yankees. Cano is an equally attrocious butcher, but I can see him replacing Sheff in RF next season. But if he's playing for an also ran, why switch? .285 hitting 2B who can be an easy 30/30/100/100 each year are worth even more than an OF who can put up those digits, and it's an easier path to the Hall of Fame.

Even though the 2B to Pitcher example is probably a bit extreme, I think this is great posting on this subject.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I'm with Soriano too. I don't think he's being a team player, but he made it pretty clear before he was traded that he wouldn't play the outfield.

Anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Soriano is playing under an arbitration contract this season. That means that he'll be a free agent after this season is over. A 2nd baseman with his stats is going to make a lot more money than an outfielder with his stats. So the Nationals are hurting his future earnings by asking him to play the outfield.

With Chipper Jones that wasn't an issue because he had a longterm contract with the Braves. He didn't have to worry about it hurting his longterm earnings. On top of that, he had played for the Braves for quite some time and was the face of the franchise. Soriano has never played for the Nationals and it's pretty clear it's a short-term stopover for him.

I also find some of the analogies a little off base, most specifically capella's comparison to his contract. He/you state(s) that if you didn't like what your boss asked you to do, you could quit and go find another job or work for yourself. But the real analogy would be that if your boss told you to go clean the toilets, you could quit but would also be forbidden from practicing law again because the bar will not allow you to practice law in the U.S. if you quit.

 

[otello]

I don't blame Soriano, but it is gonna cost him alot of coin.

 

[Nigel]

(1) Contractually he is obligated to play OF if the team says so

(2) WTF is it with people here defending a guy who won't help his team when he gets paid 10 Million per year. 

Why would you side with this guy? He is selfish and greedy.  Not to mention utterly overated.

He's a four time all star. How many times has Vidro been named an all star? Why on earth would an all star agree to switch positions, especially after he told the team trading for him that he absolutely would not play anything other than second base? It's analogous to Dallas having TO play tight end.

Maybe he should look up the definition of "team". And have a chat with Chipper Jones.

About what, how to nail Hooters girls and destroy your family?

 

[Newman]

And of course, Newman is right, the owners of major league baseball would never DREAM of doing anything shady. Man, maybe I am drinking.

Yeah, the owners orchestrated the trade for the benefit of Hicks. You're really ####### out there on this one.

 

[Koya]

I'm with Soriano too. I don't think he's being a team player, but he made it pretty clear before he was traded that he wouldn't play the outfield.

Anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Soriano is playing under an arbitration contract this season. That means that he'll be a free agent after this season is over. A 2nd baseman with his stats is going to make a lot more money than an outfielder with his stats. So the Nationals are hurting his future earnings by asking him to play the outfield.

With Chipper Jones that wasn't an issue because he had a longterm contract with the Braves. He didn't have to worry about it hurting his longterm earnings. On top of that, he had played for the Braves for quite some time and was the face of the franchise. Soriano has never played for the Nationals and it's pretty clear it's a short-term stopover for him.

I also find some of the analogies a little off base, most specifically capella's comparison to his contract. He/you state(s) that if you didn't like what your boss asked you to do, you could quit and go find another job or work for yourself. But the real analogy would be that if your boss told you to go clean the toilets, you could quit but would also be forbidden from practicing law again because the bar will not allow you to practice law in the U.S. if you quit.

WHO CARES WHAT HE "WANTS"?????OMG the inanity on this board is killing me (and there are "experts" that agree, which absolutely confounds me).

The guys is UNDER CONTRACT for TEN MILLION to play baseball.

If he finds playing 2B SOOOO important, then maybe he should have gone to his former team and said - look, I will accept less money if you guarantee me that I do not have to move positions, and put that in the contract.

But, as is, Soriano is UNDER CONTRACT to play - not to play 2B, but to play baseball. It is 100% HIS responsibility to fulfill that contract.

He can decide not to - and then forfeit service time and pay. It is that simple. Those who are siding with a selfish ballplayer already making 10 million is really a bit sad.

Suck it up Soriano - listen to your BOSS, abide by your CONTRACT and ####. Either that, or dont play LF, dont get paid, and crawl under a rug. Maybe if Soriano was not such an abhorrently selfish player in this regard, he would recognize that even if he moved to LF for a year, he could be a 2B on the market next year... the only thing this hurts is the respect (what I have left) for Soriano, and my level of respect for many who support someone who is under contract and refuses to abide by the terms of that contract...

A MIGHTY NICE CONTRACT mind you. 10 mill - to play ball. And you all support him? Please.

 

[Koya]

Something else to note:

Sori doesnt "want" to move positions. PLENTY of players Dont want to be traded - but they are. And they HAVE to abide by that trade and show up for work - or lose pay and service time.

NO difference here. Suck it up sori. That is why you decided to sign for the 10 million, regardless if it was arbitration or not. Im sure if you settled for 5 mil, you could get a clause to ensure you play at your precious 2B.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I'm with Soriano too. I don't think he's being a team player, but he made it pretty clear before he was traded that he wouldn't play the outfield.

Anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Soriano is playing under an arbitration contract this season. That means that he'll be a free agent after this season is over. A 2nd baseman with his stats is going to make a lot more money than an outfielder with his stats. So the Nationals are hurting his future earnings by asking him to play the outfield.

With Chipper Jones that wasn't an issue because he had a longterm contract with the Braves. He didn't have to worry about it hurting his longterm earnings. On top of that, he had played for the Braves for quite some time and was the face of the franchise. Soriano has never played for the Nationals and it's pretty clear it's a short-term stopover for him.

I also find some of the analogies a little off base, most specifically capella's comparison to his contract. He/you state(s) that if you didn't like what your boss asked you to do, you could quit and go find another job or work for yourself. But the real analogy would be that if your boss told you to go clean the toilets, you could quit but would also be forbidden from practicing law again because the bar will not allow you to practice law in the U.S. if you quit.

WHO CARES WHAT HE "WANTS"?????OMG the inanity on this board is killing me (and there are "experts" that agree, which absolutely confounds me).

The guys is UNDER CONTRACT for TEN MILLION to play baseball.

If he finds playing 2B SOOOO important, then maybe he should have gone to his former team and said - look, I will accept less money if you guarantee me that I do not have to move positions, and put that in the contract.

But, as is, Soriano is UNDER CONTRACT to play - not to play 2B, but to play baseball. It is 100% HIS responsibility to fulfill that contract.

He can decide not to - and then forfeit service time and pay. It is that simple. Those who are siding with a selfish ballplayer already making 10 million is really a bit sad.

Suck it up Soriano - listen to your BOSS, abide by your CONTRACT and ####. Either that, or dont play LF, dont get paid, and crawl under a rug. Maybe if Soriano was not such an abhorrently selfish player in this regard, he would recognize that even if he moved to LF for a year, he could be a 2B on the market next year... the only thing this hurts is the respect (what I have left) for Soriano, and my level of respect for many who support someone who is under contract and refuses to abide by the terms of that contract...

A MIGHTY NICE CONTRACT mind you. 10 mill - to play ball. And you all support him? Please.

You can keep capitalizing the word contract and having a fit, but I'm not sure who you're arguing against. I don't think a single person has said that he should be able to sit out and still earn his money. He is abiding perfectly by his contract. If he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. He's choosing not to play and will not get paid. I think some people here are just saying that they don't blame him and would possibly choose to do the same thing. Chances are his sitting out will hurt the Nationals more than it will hurt Soriano in the short term. The Nationals knew that he didn't want to play the outfield and traded for him anyway. They are getting everything they deserve.

 

[flarkworms]

I think Soriano is just trying to protect Fantasy owners (maybe including himself) that want to preserve his eligibility at 2B. He is a team player, it's just that the team is not the Nationals.

 

[JZilla]

And of course, Newman is right, the owners of major league baseball would never DREAM of doing anything shady.  Man, maybe I am drinking.

Yeah, the owners orchestrated the trade for the benefit of Hicks. You're really ####### out there on this one.

I can understand if you basically disagree, but do you REALLY think it's that big a stretch? You act like I'm saying that Selig and Hicks gangbanged a monkey.Have you not paid attention to the politics of baseball for the past ten years?

 

[Koya]

I'm with Soriano too.  I don't think he's being a team player, but he made it pretty clear before he was traded that he wouldn't play the outfield. 

Anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Soriano is playing under an arbitration contract this season.  That means that he'll be a free agent after this season is over.  A 2nd baseman with his stats is going to make a lot more money than an outfielder with his stats.  So the Nationals are hurting his future earnings by asking him to play the outfield. 

With Chipper Jones that wasn't an issue because he had a longterm contract with the Braves.  He didn't have to worry about it hurting his longterm earnings.  On top of that, he had played for the Braves for quite some time and was the face of the franchise.  Soriano has never played for the Nationals and it's pretty clear it's a short-term stopover for him. 

I also find some of the analogies a little off base, most specifically capella's comparison to his contract.  He/you state(s) that if you didn't like what your boss asked you to do, you could quit and go find another job or work for yourself.  But the real analogy would be that if your boss told you to go clean the toilets, you could quit but would also be forbidden from practicing law again because the bar will not allow you to practice law in the U.S. if you quit.

WHO CARES WHAT HE "WANTS"?????OMG the inanity on this board is killing me (and there are "experts" that agree, which absolutely confounds me).

The guys is UNDER CONTRACT for TEN MILLION to play baseball.

If he finds playing 2B SOOOO important, then maybe he should have gone to his former team and said - look, I will accept less money if you guarantee me that I do not have to move positions, and put that in the contract.

But, as is, Soriano is UNDER CONTRACT to play - not to play 2B, but to play baseball. It is 100% HIS responsibility to fulfill that contract.

He can decide not to - and then forfeit service time and pay. It is that simple. Those who are siding with a selfish ballplayer already making 10 million is really a bit sad.

Suck it up Soriano - listen to your BOSS, abide by your CONTRACT and ####. Either that, or dont play LF, dont get paid, and crawl under a rug. Maybe if Soriano was not such an abhorrently selfish player in this regard, he would recognize that even if he moved to LF for a year, he could be a 2B on the market next year... the only thing this hurts is the respect (what I have left) for Soriano, and my level of respect for many who support someone who is under contract and refuses to abide by the terms of that contract...

A MIGHTY NICE CONTRACT mind you. 10 mill - to play ball. And you all support him? Please.

You can keep capitalizing the word contract and having a fit, but I'm not sure who you're arguing against. I don't think a single person has said that he should be able to sit out and still earn his money. He is abiding perfectly by his contract. If he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. He's choosing not to play and will not get paid. I think some people here are just saying that they don't blame him and would possibly choose to do the same thing. Chances are his sitting out will hurt the Nationals more than it will hurt Soriano in the short term. The Nationals knew that he didn't want to play the outfield and traded for him anyway. They are getting everything they deserve.

If someone is of the mind that he has the right to not sit and not get paid, I am fine with that.If someone wants to call the Nat's out for being fools for aquiring this guy, I am fine with that.

I have read and heard a lot of people that suggest that Soriano has the "right" to not play LF, and should still be paid. That since Sori said he wouldnt play LF, that means that Nats have no right and he has no obligation to force play in LF.

Those are the people I take issue with. If Sori wants to sit a year, then come back next year, and maybe have to sit AGAIN if he wont abide by his contract (all without pay), hey, it is a free country.

 

[ScottNorwood]

What would happen in the NFL if a coach told a kicker to go in there and play left guard?

 

[JZilla]

If someone is of the mind that he has the right to not sit and not get paid, I am fine with that.

If someone wants to call the Nat's out for being fools for aquiring this guy, I am fine with that.

Great! So what's the problem?

I have read and heard a lot of people that suggest that Soriano has the "right" to not play LF, and should still be paid. That since Sori said he wouldnt play LF, that means that Nats have no right and he has no obligation to force play in LF.

Those are the people I take issue with. If Sori wants to sit a year, then come back next year, and maybe have to sit AGAIN if he wont abide by his contract (all without pay), hey, it is a free country.

Who said that? Link?

 

[Newman]

I can understand if you basically disagree, but do you REALLY think it's that big a stretch?

Have you not paid attention to the politics of baseball for the past ten years?

Yes to the first question. I get that you're bitter about the trade, but the assertion is nuts. Is anybody out there on board with this? Journalists in the DC area? The national media? It's just an absurd notion.And to the second, how can a baseball fan have not paid attention to the politics?

 

[MelvinTScupper]

If someone is of the mind that he has the right to not sit and not get paid, I am fine with that.

If someone wants to call the Nat's out for being fools for aquiring this guy, I am fine with that.

Great! So what's the problem?

I have read and heard a lot of people that suggest that Soriano has the "right" to not play LF, and should still be paid. That since Sori said he wouldnt play LF, that means that Nats have no right and he has no obligation to force play in LF.

Those are the people I take issue with. If Sori wants to sit a year, then come back next year, and maybe have to sit AGAIN if he wont abide by his contract (all without pay), hey, it is a free country.

Who said that? Link?

Yep. He needs 93 days of service to become a free agent. So if he doesn't play, he'll have the exact same situation next year.

 

[JZilla]

I can understand if you basically disagree, but do you REALLY think it's that big a stretch? 

Have you not paid attention to the politics of baseball for the past ten years?

Yes to the first question. I get that you're bitter about the trade, but the assertion is nuts. Is anybody out there on board with this? Journalists in the DC area? The national media? It's just an absurd notion.And to the second, how can a baseball fan have not paid attention to the politics?

I think your assertion that it's that OUT THERE is far more absurd than my statement. The guys involved are notoriously greedy and corrupt. The trade was an extremely foolish one. If it looks like a duck....

 

[Nigel]

What would happen in the NFL if a coach told a kicker to go in there and play left guard?

A few would do it, most would #### their pants and cry.

 

[Koya]

If someone is of the mind that he has the right to not sit and not get paid, I am fine with that.

If someone wants to call the Nat's out for being fools for aquiring this guy, I am fine with that.

Great! So what's the problem?

I have read and heard a lot of people that suggest that Soriano has the "right" to not play LF, and should still be paid.  That since Sori said he wouldnt play LF, that means that Nats have no right and he has no obligation to force play in LF.

Those are the people I take issue with.  If Sori wants to sit a year, then come back next year, and maybe have to sit AGAIN if he wont abide by his contract (all without pay), hey, it is a free country.

Who said that? Link?

If you are others are not saying that, then I either misunderstood or I apologize. But anyone who thinks Sori has the right to play 2B, and can/should choose not to but still be paid is WAY off base.Of course, the Nats are fools here - but that was their choice. They can force Sori's hand and make him play LF. Maybe they overestimated what kind of person Sori was, and did not realize the depth of his selfishness, lack of team play or lack of being a man able to sack it up and do what is asked by his employer when he gets paid 10 mill a year.

God, I HOPE AND PRAY the Mets dont get this guy.

 

[JZilla]

If someone is of the mind that he has the right to not sit and not get paid, I am fine with that.

If someone wants to call the Nat's out for being fools for aquiring this guy, I am fine with that.

Great! So what's the problem?

I have read and heard a lot of people that suggest that Soriano has the "right" to not play LF, and should still be paid.  That since Sori said he wouldnt play LF, that means that Nats have no right and he has no obligation to force play in LF.

Those are the people I take issue with.  If Sori wants to sit a year, then come back next year, and maybe have to sit AGAIN if he wont abide by his contract (all without pay), hey, it is a free country.

Who said that? Link?

Yep. He needs 93 days of service to become a free agent. So if he doesn't play, he'll have the exact same situation next year.

He'd be dumped way before that ever happens. He'll be gone before the trade deadline no matter what.I suspect he sucks it up and plays tomorrow. I also suspect he's gone as soon as they can get anything at all for him. Which is exaxclty what he's trying to orchestrate. In the end, the Nats got rid of Brad Wilkerson for basically nothing, and its no one's fault but their own.

 

[JZilla]

If someone is of the mind that he has the right to not sit and not get paid, I am fine with that.

If someone wants to call the Nat's out for being fools for aquiring this guy, I am fine with that.

Great! So what's the problem?

I have read and heard a lot of people that suggest that Soriano has the "right" to not play LF, and should still be paid.  That since Sori said he wouldnt play LF, that means that Nats have no right and he has no obligation to force play in LF.

Those are the people I take issue with.  If Sori wants to sit a year, then come back next year, and maybe have to sit AGAIN if he wont abide by his contract (all without pay), hey, it is a free country.

Who said that? Link?

If you are others are not saying that, then I either misunderstood or I apologize. But anyone who thinks Sori has the right to play 2B, and can/should choose not to but still be paid is WAY off base.Of course, the Nats are fools here - but that was their choice. They can force Sori's hand and make him play LF. Maybe they overestimated what kind of person Sori was, and did not realize the depth of his selfishness, lack of team play or lack of being a man able to sack it up and do what is asked by his employer when he gets paid 10 mill a year.

God, I HOPE AND PRAY the Mets dont get this guy.

I was thinking the Mets would be on the short list Guess you're pretty happy with Kaz.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

If someone is of the mind that he has the right to not sit and not get paid, I am fine with that.

If someone wants to call the Nat's out for being fools for aquiring this guy, I am fine with that.

Great! So what's the problem?

I have read and heard a lot of people that suggest that Soriano has the "right" to not play LF, and should still be paid. That since Sori said he wouldnt play LF, that means that Nats have no right and he has no obligation to force play in LF.

Those are the people I take issue with. If Sori wants to sit a year, then come back next year, and maybe have to sit AGAIN if he wont abide by his contract (all without pay), hey, it is a free country.

Who said that? Link?

Yep. He needs 93 days of service to become a free agent. So if he doesn't play, he'll have the exact same situation next year.

He'd be dumped way before that ever happens. He'll be gone before the trade deadline no matter what.I suspect he sucks it up and plays tomorrow. I also suspect he's gone as soon as they can get anything at all for him. Which is exaxclty what he's trying to orchestrate. In the end, the Nats got rid of Brad Wilkerson for basically nothing, and its no one's fault but their own.

If they can trade him, sure. No reason to dump him for nothing. If anything, they'd be better off doing what they're threatening, putting him on the DQ list, which pretty much ####s him until next year.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Same old story here. Many people on this board don't seem to think that professional athletes should have the ability to make their own decisions regarding their own careers. See also: the thousands of haters who come out of the woodwork whenever an NFL player exercises his right to hold out. I wonder if its racism or envy, probably a little bit of both.

The Wilkerson/Soriano deal was a favor by MLB (who owns the Nationals) to Tom Hicks, the owner of the Rangers. They got the Rangers out from under the Soriano contract, which was yet another stupid salary move on their part, while still giving them some serious value in Wilkerson as well as utility man Sledge and a pitching prospect. No other team would have made that deal for Soriano. All this to the detriment of Nationals fans who can only sit and wait for real ownership to come along and hope that we don't get somebody like, well, Tom Hicks.

Alfonso Soriano knows what he wants and this isn't it. If I was him I would suck it up and play but I'm not and I respect his position, especially given that he expressed it so strongly before the trade was made, and the rich white men who made the trade disregarded his position just like many of you are now. Get out there and lace em up, boy!

I hope you are all asked to clean the crappers by your boss tomorrow afternoon. Hey you're getting paid, just do it.

Wasn't the contract from the yankees though?

Perhaps, but they still took it. The contract is not so much the issue as the fact that they got the value they did for someone they were looking to dump. That could only happen through the favor given to them by MLB.

Actually, there was no contract - Soriano was arbitration eligible and Hicks (Rangers) knew he'd command ~ 10MM in a hearing, so he dealt Alfonso.

Washington got Soriano, went to arbitration, and Soriano was awarded a $10MM, 1 year deal.

 

[JZilla]

If someone is of the mind that he has the right to not sit and not get paid, I am fine with that.

If someone wants to call the Nat's out for being fools for aquiring this guy, I am fine with that.

Great! So what's the problem?

I have read and heard a lot of people that suggest that Soriano has the "right" to not play LF, and should still be paid.  That since Sori said he wouldnt play LF, that means that Nats have no right and he has no obligation to force play in LF.

Those are the people I take issue with.  If Sori wants to sit a year, then come back next year, and maybe have to sit AGAIN if he wont abide by his contract (all without pay), hey, it is a free country.

Who said that? Link?

Yep. He needs 93 days of service to become a free agent. So if he doesn't play, he'll have the exact same situation next year.

He'd be dumped way before that ever happens. He'll be gone before the trade deadline no matter what.I suspect he sucks it up and plays tomorrow. I also suspect he's gone as soon as they can get anything at all for him. Which is exaxclty what he's trying to orchestrate. In the end, the Nats got rid of Brad Wilkerson for basically nothing, and its no one's fault but their own.

If they can trade him, sure. No reason to dump him for nothing. If anything, they'd be better off doing what they're threatening, putting him on the DQ list, which pretty much ####s him until next year.

In your perfect world I'm sure this would happen, but it never does and we both know it. They'll take whatever they can get for him and be done with it.

 

[brewer]

I quit reading about half way through this thread.... It is unfathomable to me that anyone could respect Soriano for this primadona play. It's not like the some NFL team is asking a WR to play CB or something(oh wait, Troy Brown did that happily to help the team). It's not even like MLB asking a starting pitcher to go on short rest(oh wait, that happens dozens of times a year). No, what is happening here is that the Nationals are asking a player to move positions because they already have someone BETTER than him at his chosen position. Is it a blow to his ego, maybe. Did he voice his displeasure with the move, sure he did. He clearly won't be signing any hometown discount deals with the Nationals any time soon. However, he is a freaking professional baseball player. Suck it up and go shag some flies. It's very possible that the versatility could actually help him in the future.

The clean the toilets analogy is absolutely crazy. This is more like a track coach asking his 800m runner to give the 400m a try. It might take a little getting used to, but it isn't apples and oranges.

 

[tommyGunZ]

And the income line to where you are able to make your own decisions is when you're financially independent and you can go into business for yourself.

So, when Alfonso is ready to buy his own team, he can start calling the shots.

Apparently Soriano has already passed the income line where he can call his own shots, if he's willing to forfeit salary and service time.

 

[JZilla]

Actually, there was no contract - Soriano was arbitration eligible and Hicks (Rangers) knew he'd command ~ 10MM in a hearing, so he dealt Alfonso.

Washington got Soriano, went to arbitration, and Soriano was awarded a $10MM, 1 year deal.

OK, good info but it doesn't really change anything.The fact is that the Rangers got what they got for someone they wanted to dump.

Why did the Nationals want Alfonso Soriano, especially after his statement that he would not play outfield? Why did they give up their best player for him anyway?

Brad Wilkerson as an outfielder is arguably more valuable than Alfonso Soriano as an outfielder, does anyone debate this?

Why make the trade, why force it down Soriano's throat, why give Soriano $10 million at all?

 

[MelvinTScupper]

If someone is of the mind that he has the right to not sit and not get paid, I am fine with that.

If someone wants to call the Nat's out for being fools for aquiring this guy, I am fine with that.

Great! So what's the problem?

I have read and heard a lot of people that suggest that Soriano has the "right" to not play LF, and should still be paid. That since Sori said he wouldnt play LF, that means that Nats have no right and he has no obligation to force play in LF.

Those are the people I take issue with. If Sori wants to sit a year, then come back next year, and maybe have to sit AGAIN if he wont abide by his contract (all without pay), hey, it is a free country.

Who said that? Link?

Yep. He needs 93 days of service to become a free agent. So if he doesn't play, he'll have the exact same situation next year.

He'd be dumped way before that ever happens. He'll be gone before the trade deadline no matter what.I suspect he sucks it up and plays tomorrow. I also suspect he's gone as soon as they can get anything at all for him. Which is exaxclty what he's trying to orchestrate. In the end, the Nats got rid of Brad Wilkerson for basically nothing, and its no one's fault but their own.

If they can trade him, sure. No reason to dump him for nothing. If anything, they'd be better off doing what they're threatening, putting him on the DQ list, which pretty much ####s him until next year.

In your perfect world I'm sure this would happen, but it never does and we both know it. They'll take whatever they can get for him and be done with it.

My perfect world?I hope they can get some value for him, but if they can't, I hope they screw him, a la, Terrell Owens.

 

[bagger.]

In all fairness he made it clear BEFORE the trade he would not play another position. They should move vidro anyway. OF would not be a good career move..

Bowden is an idiot. I'm not sure what he was expecting to happen here. Soriano was very clear what he thought before hand.

The contract is also pretty clear that if Soriano doesnt get his ### out there, the TEN FREAKING MILLION HE IS PAID TO PLAY A GAME is held back, and he loses any service time.Yeah, poor guy under a TEN MILLION DOLLAR contract let the new team know he wouldnt move positions. Rough life there.

Don't let $$ envy cloud the issue.If you moved and made it clear of your expectations of your new job before that move and upon arrival your new boss moved you from sales to accounting, you'd be pissed too.

Just because he makes more than you doesn't change the issue.

 

[bagger.]

Same old story here. Many people on this board don't seem to think that professional athletes should have the ability to make their own decisions regarding their own careers. See also: the thousands of haters who come out of the woodwork whenever an NFL player exercises his right to hold out. I wonder if its racism or envy, probably a little bit of both.

The Wilkerson/Soriano deal was a favor by MLB (who owns the Nationals) to Tom Hicks, the owner of the Rangers. They got the Rangers out from under the Soriano contract, which was yet another stupid salary move on their part, while still giving them some serious value in Wilkerson as well as utility man Sledge and a pitching prospect. No other team would have made that deal for Soriano. All this to the detriment of Nationals fans who can only sit and wait for real ownership to come along and hope that we don't get somebody like, well, Tom Hicks.

Alfonso Soriano knows what he wants and this isn't it. If I was him I would suck it up and play but I'm not and I respect his position, especially given that he expressed it so strongly before the trade was made, and the rich white men who made the trade disregarded his position just like many of you are now. Get out there and lace em up, boy!

I hope you are all asked to clean the crappers by your boss tomorrow afternoon. Hey you're getting paid, just do it.

 

[bagger.]

Yeah, because getting paid millions for playing the OF is so demeaning compared to getting paid millions for playing 2B.

What does salary have to do with anything?If you had to clean your company's toilets somebody living below the poverty line probably thinks you shouldn't complain because you are making $50k.

It's all relative.

Don't be so ####### stupid.

TIA

 

[tommyGunZ]

I think Soriano is just trying to protect Fantasy owners (maybe including himself) that want to preserve his eligibility at 2B. He is a team player, it's just that the team is not the Nationals.

I own Soriano in a dynasty league and I'm praying he continues his refusal to play OF in cavernous RFK. It will kill his career and my fantasy team.

Stick to your gunz Alfonso.

 

[Jaysus]

I hope you are all asked to clean the crappers by your boss tomorrow afternoon. Hey you're getting paid, just do it.

Black dot (plus I love that line)

 

[Capella]

bagger, you're really missing the point here.

 

[JZilla]

The clean the toilets analogy is absolutely crazy.

You think?Soriano batted .268 last year, hit 36 home runs and stole 30 bases.

As a second baseman, he is worth $10 million as ruled by an arbitrator.

How much would he be worth as an outfielder? $10 million? #### no.

OK we'll get past the extreme toilet analogy. As an Oracle DBA I make a certain amount of money a year. What if my boss decided he wanted me to be a Windows sys admin, because that's what the company needs more? I would keep my current salary but I would be doing only Windows for an indefinite amount of time. A Windows sys admin might make half of what I make. In the long run my career would be damaged because that's less time I can spend gaining experience and expertise in oracle. So I'd tell him to get bent, and you would to. I might lose my job, and have to get a new one, but that doesn't make me any less of a man, or a selfish #####, or a prima donna, or anything else. It makes me an individual who is looking out for his own best interests.

 

[Giant Wooden Badger]

Maybe he should look up the definition of "team". And have a chat with Chipper Jones.

Give me a break. Marte is no longer a Brave because Chipper decided he'd had enough of the OF.Let's not make Chipper out to be an alter boy here. He isn't.

 

[bagger.]

bagger, you're really missing the point here.

It comes down to people bashing an athlete because he makes millions. You see it in every post.

"He makes millions he should do it."

Money has nothing to do with the issue because what someone makes is relative to his peers.

Someone may think you should do whatever your boss asks because you make more money than them. You don't think so because you see people making more than you.