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Soriano Refuses To Play Outfield (1 Viewer)

I think my favorite part of all this is the number of coaches/GMs they've had on ESPN radio over the last 2 days. To a man, they all say:

I've never, ever had a guy flat out say "No, I won't change" when asked to change positions or do something different for the team.

Regardless, the guy is a #####.

 
Update: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Alfonso Soriano said he had no knowledge that he was supposed to start in left field on Monday. He hasn't decided whether or not he'll play Wednesday.

Two baseball sources told MLB.com that bench coach Eddie Rodriguez wrote two lineups on Monday. Amazingly enough, the one without Soriano's name in the lineup was on the clubhouse bulletin board for most of the afternoon. If possible, the Nationals are handling this whole situation worse than Soriano. It should become clear tomorrow whether or not Soriano will be placed on the restricted list. "I'm going to think about (playing left field). I'm going to talk it over with his wife and agent, [Diego Bentz]," Soriano said. "I want to play, but they have [Jose] Vidro at second base. I will make a decision [on Wednesday morning]."
Why doesn't this surprise me? They may want to let him know the next time he's supposed to be in the lineup despite him not being in the lineup hanging up in the clubhouse.
 
I think my favorite part of all this is the number of coaches/GMs they've had on ESPN radio over the last 2 days. To a man, they all say:

I've never, ever had a guy flat out say "No, I won't change" when asked to change positions or do something different for the team.

Regardless, the guy is a #####.
Really? Why do you think the Yanks didn't ask Jeter to move?

 
I think my favorite part of all this is the number of coaches/GMs they've had on ESPN radio over the last 2 days. To a man, they all say:

I've never, ever had a guy flat out say "No, I won't change" when asked to change positions or do something different for the team.

Regardless, the guy is a #####.
Really? Why do you think the Yanks didn't ask Jeter to move?
Ummm, because he's actually good at the position he plays?
 
I think my favorite part of all this is the number of coaches/GMs they've had on ESPN radio over the last 2 days.  To a man, they all say:

I've never, ever had a guy flat out say "No, I won't change" when asked to change positions or do something different for the team.

Regardless, the guy is a #####.
Really? Why do you think the Yanks didn't ask Jeter to move?
Ummm, because he's actually good at the position he plays?
Nope.ARod's clearly a better SS. They didn't ask Jeter to move b/c they knew he wouldn't.

 
I think my favorite part of all this is the number of coaches/GMs they've had on ESPN radio over the last 2 days. To a man, they all say:

I've never, ever had a guy flat out say "No, I won't change" when asked to change positions or do something different for the team.

Regardless, the guy is a #####.
Really? Why do you think the Yanks didn't ask Jeter to move?
Ummm, because he's actually good at the position he plays?
Nope.ARod's clearly a better SS. They didn't ask Jeter to move b/c they knew he wouldn't.
:lmao: Sorry about your Soriano man-love, but the guy is the worst 2B in the NL. Why would they ever WANT him there?

 
I think my favorite part of all this is the number of coaches/GMs they've had on ESPN radio over the last 2 days.  To a man, they all say:

I've never, ever had a guy flat out say "No, I won't change" when asked to change positions or do something different for the team.

Regardless, the guy is a #####.
Really? Why do you think the Yanks didn't ask Jeter to move?
Ummm, because he's actually good at the position he plays?
Jeter is average.
 
I think my favorite part of all this is the number of coaches/GMs they've had on ESPN radio over the last 2 days. To a man, they all say:

I've never, ever had a guy flat out say "No, I won't change" when asked to change positions or do something different for the team.

Regardless, the guy is a #####.
Really? Why do you think the Yanks didn't ask Jeter to move?
Ummm, because he's actually good at the position he plays?
Jeter is average.
good = average. Whatever. He's not an effing anchor at his position. Better?
 
I think my favorite part of all this is the number of coaches/GMs they've had on ESPN radio over the last 2 days.  To a man, they all say:

I've never, ever had a guy flat out say "No, I won't change" when asked to change positions or do something different for the team.

Regardless, the guy is a #####.
Really? Why do you think the Yanks didn't ask Jeter to move?
Ummm, because he's actually good at the position he plays?
Nope.ARod's clearly a better SS. They didn't ask Jeter to move b/c they knew he wouldn't.
:lmao: Sorry about your Soriano man-love, but the guy is the worst 2B in the NL. Why would they ever WANT him there?
1 - They'd want him there b/c his bat more than makes up for his glove.2 - You didn't answer the question. Why is Soriano an ###, but Jeter's a great guy, team captain, face of the US team?

 
I think my favorite part of all this is the number of coaches/GMs they've had on ESPN radio over the last 2 days.  To a man, they all say:

I've never, ever had a guy flat out say "No, I won't change" when asked to change positions or do something different for the team.

Regardless, the guy is a #####.
Really? Why do you think the Yanks didn't ask Jeter to move?
Ummm, because he's actually good at the position he plays?
Nope.ARod's clearly a better SS. They didn't ask Jeter to move b/c they knew he wouldn't.
:lmao: Sorry about your Soriano man-love, but the guy is the worst 2B in the NL. Why would they ever WANT him there?
This just begs the question why did they trade for him to begin with? He's a butcher in the field, not particularly good with the bat, and expensive.Wilkerson was the best player in the deal and they gave up Wilkerson + to get Soriano. Morons.

Soriano is flashy because he steals bases and hits a fair amount of HR in parks that are good hitters parks. The guy epitomizes the term overrated. And in RFK he'll be lucky to be more than a replacement level hitter.

 
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I mean, I know the Gold Gloves in 2004 and 2005 don't really make a career or anything.

 
I mean, I know the Gold Gloves in 2004 and 2005 don't really make a career or anything.
You really shouldn't hang your hat on gold glove awards. Remember, this is the award Palmiero won when he was a DH.The voters ain't too smart.

 
I think my favorite part of all this is the number of coaches/GMs they've had on ESPN radio over the last 2 days. To a man, they all say:

I've never, ever had a guy flat out say "No, I won't change" when asked to change positions or do something different for the team.

Regardless, the guy is a #####.
Really? Why do you think the Yanks didn't ask Jeter to move?
Ummm, because he's actually good at the position he plays?
Nope.ARod's clearly a better SS. They didn't ask Jeter to move b/c they knew he wouldn't.
:lmao: Sorry about your Soriano man-love, but the guy is the worst 2B in the NL. Why would they ever WANT him there?
1 - They'd want him there b/c his bat more than makes up for his glove.2 - You didn't answer the question. Why is Soriano an ###, but Jeter's a great guy, team captain, face of the US team?
Who said Jeter's a great guy? If he acted like Soriano is, then he'd be a ##### too.also, his bat works at any position, so why put him at 2nd, where he's clearly a detriment, and as I said THE WORST 2B IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE?!?!?!

 
2 - You didn't answer the question. Why is Soriano an ###, but Jeter's a great guy, team captain, face of the US team?
How did Jeter get into this discussion.... I don't remember him ever saying that he wouldn't do whatever the Yankees asked of him.By the way, ARod is yet another perfect example of someone taking a new position because the team asked him to.

No matter how you spin this one, I can't support Soriano not playing. He has about twice the amount of errors over the last 4 years than the second worst player at his position. Asking him to try the outfield could actually save his career. He certainly isn't getting any better at second base.

 
1 - They'd want him there b/c his bat more than makes up for his glove.
No, it doesn't. The guy is not the hitter he's made out to be. Not even close.
Oh I agree, he's definitely overrated. The point, though, is that a lot of teams don't realize that and thus he has a lot more value (i.e., $$) at 2B than OF.
 
I mean, I know the Gold Gloves in 2004 and 2005 don't really make a career or anything.
You really shouldn't hang your hat on gold glove awards. Remember, this is the award Palmiero won when he was a DH.The voters ain't too smart.
This is getting pathetic. Any other apologies you'd like to make for him?
 
1 - They'd want him there b/c his bat more than makes up for his glove.
No, it doesn't. The guy is not the hitter he's made out to be. Not even close.
Oh I agree, he's definitely overrated. The point, though, is that a lot of teams don't realize that and thus he has a lot more value (i.e., $$) at 2B than OF.
No, he doesn't.
 
This just begs the question why did they trade for him to begin with?
Yeah, like several months ago that was the question. It's no longer the question. The trade is done. It's over. Nothing you can about it now.When the Nats get an owner, Bowden will be fired. But, for now, no point in looking back at why they made the trade.

 
His AWAY numbers in 2005:

.224/.265/.374 with 11 HR (out of 36)

He had 326 or so at-bats away from Arlington. That's horrid. RFK is going to destroy him.
Agreed. But there are still GMs out there like Bowden who don't recognize this. The bottom line is, by switching to LF, he's giving up millions of dollars.

 
1 - They'd want him there b/c his bat more than makes up for his glove.
No, it doesn't. The guy is not the hitter he's made out to be. Not even close.
Oh I agree, he's definitely overrated. The point, though, is that a lot of teams don't realize that and thus he has a lot more value (i.e., $$) at 2B than OF.
No, he doesn't.
Why?
BECAUSE HE SUCKS AT SECOND BASE!
 
I mean, I know the Gold Gloves in 2004 and 2005 don't really make a career or anything.
You really shouldn't hang your hat on gold glove awards. Remember, this is the award Palmiero won when he was a DH.The voters ain't too smart.
This is getting pathetic. Any other apologies you'd like to make for him?
It's not an apology, it's just the truth. Sorry if you don't like that.
 
also, his bat works at any position, so why put him at 2nd, where he's clearly a detriment, and as I said THE WORST 2B IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE?!?!?!
:goodposting: I really don't get all these arguments that he's a better OFFENSIVE player at one DEFENSIVE position than he is at another.

They are two seperate issues.

 
I mean, I know the Gold Gloves in 2004 and 2005 don't really make a career or anything.
You really shouldn't hang your hat on gold glove awards. Remember, this is the award Palmiero won when he was a DH.The voters ain't too smart.
This is getting pathetic. Any other apologies you'd like to make for him?
It's not an apology, it's just the truth. Sorry if you don't like that.
I wonder why the HOF guys take gold gloves into account. Odd that you're smarter than them.Even odder that Soriano couldn't get one of these easy to get awards.

 
The bottom line is, by switching to LF, he's giving up millions of dollars.
I don't disagree with this.
Of course you wouldn't. It's a fact. It's also a fact that if you suck at 2B, you're career won't be at 2B for very long.
 
The bottom line is, by switching to LF, he's giving up millions of dollars.
I don't disagree with this.
Why not? He plays ONE year at LF and is then a FA. Then he calls his shots. Will people forget that he played 90% of his career at 2B, and that he would be of more value there if a team wants an offensive player at that position?This contention that Soriano playing LF would lose him the ability to earn just seems spurrious. Yes, if he was to ALWAYS play LF that might be the case, but by demonstrating he could play both 2B AND the OF doesnt seem to be a financial hurdle to me. If anything, it would be the opposite.

He isnt looking for Arbitration after this year, his position that he played this season wont matter. If a team wants a 2B, they wont care if he played mostly LF this year if he is going to move back to his natural position next year when he signs wherever he wants to.

Of course, being a whiny little ##### who is unwilling to listen to his employer and unwilling to do what is best for the team might hurt his value in some teams eyes....

 
also, his bat works at any position, so why put him at 2nd, where he's clearly a detriment, and as I said THE WORST 2B IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE?!?!?!
:goodposting: I really don't get all these arguments that he's a better OFFENSIVE player at one DEFENSIVE position than he is at another.

They are two seperate issues.
It's a replacement value argument. It's a helluva lot easier finding a LF who can rake than a 2B who can rake.
 
This just begs the question why did they trade for him to begin with? He's a butcher in the field, not particularly good with the bat, and expensive.
:eek: Soriano isn't Albert Pujols, but c'mon. He's not "good" with the bat?
Wilkerson was the best player in the deal and they gave up Wilkerson + to get Soriano. Morons.
:eek: Soriano > Wilkerson. Let's now go overboard on this OPS stuff.
Soriano is flashy because he steals bases and hits a fair amount of HR in parks that are good hitters parks. The guy epitomizes the term overrated. And in RFK he'll be lucky to be more than a replacement level hitter.
Being able to run and hit the ball out of the ball park are still two of the most important skills in baseball. Soriano reminds me of a young Sheffield. If he can ever learn plate discipline, he'll be an MVP candidate. His bat is that quick.
 
It's a replacement value argument. It's a helluva lot easier finding a LF who can rake than a 2B who can rake.
With as poor as Soriano is at 2B, this actually shouldn't be hard at all.
 
also, his bat works at any position, so why put him at 2nd, where he's clearly a detriment, and as I said THE WORST 2B IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE?!?!?!
:goodposting: I really don't get all these arguments that he's a better OFFENSIVE player at one DEFENSIVE position than he is at another.

They are two seperate issues.
It's a replacement value argument. It's a helluva lot easier finding a LF who can rake than a 2B who can rake.
That really doesn't matter. Should we put Adam Dunn at 2B?? I mean, that guy's a better hitter than Soriano. How about Vlad. CHRIST, COULD YOU IMAGINE HIS SALARY AT SECOND BASE??!?! He should demand to play there.
 
(1) Contractually he is obligated to play OF if the team says so

(2) WTF is it with people here defending a guy who won't help his team when he gets paid 10 Million per year.  :shrug:

Why would you side with this guy? He is selfish and greedy.  Not to mention utterly overated.
He's a four time all star. How many times has Vidro been named an all star? Why on earth would an all star agree to switch positions, especially after he told the team trading for him that he absolutely would not play anything other than second base? It's analogous to Dallas having TO play tight end.
You don't follow baseball, do you? Vidro is an All-Star, too, and one who actually plays defense. Soriano is the worst second baseman in baseball, and it's not close. They showed a stat on ESPN this morning that in the last 4-5 years, Soriano has committed more than twice as many errors over that time span than the next second baseman on the list. Soriano was over 100, next guy on the list was below 50. That he's made All-Star teams is a testament to the a)idiocy of fan voting, and b)over-emphasis of some offensive categories.

So the answer to your question "Why would Soriano move" is a) because he sucks at the position at which he's allegedly a professional, and b) he's on a team with a superior baseball player playing "his" position.

 
also, his bat works at any position, so why put him at 2nd, where he's clearly a detriment, and as I said THE WORST 2B IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE?!?!?!
:goodposting: I really don't get all these arguments that he's a better OFFENSIVE player at one DEFENSIVE position than he is at another.

They are two seperate issues.
It's a replacement value argument. It's a helluva lot easier finding a LF who can rake than a 2B who can rake.
Right. I understand why it can change his value, but it doesn't change his offensive numbers. He hits how he hits regardless of position. Moving him to LF doesn't change his offensive production; it just changes his offensive production relative to others at his position. That's not a good argument to play him at a position he sucks at.Hey, I got an idea: Let's move Sammy Sosa to pitcher. That way he's a better offensive player.

 
My biggest gripe with Soriano is that he obviously has the athletic ability to excel at 2B, but he won't put the work in. He has quick hands, can move, and a good arm for 2B.

His refusal to take the extra time to transform himself from a liability to an asset at 2B is my biggest problem with him as a player.

 
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His AWAY numbers in 2005:

.224/.265/.374 with 11 HR (out of 36)

He had 326 or so at-bats away from Arlington. That's horrid. RFK is going to destroy him.
RFK destroys a lot of hitters.
Guillen had like 25 road HRs last year and 5 at home or something amazing like that. He would crush some at RFK and they'd barely make the warning track.
 
This just begs the question why did they trade for him to begin with? He's a butcher in the field, not particularly good with the bat, and expensive.
:eek: Soriano isn't Albert Pujols, but c'mon. He's not "good" with the bat?
Wilkerson was the best player in the deal and they gave up Wilkerson + to get Soriano. Morons.
:eek: Soriano > Wilkerson. Let's now go overboard on this OPS stuff.
Soriano is flashy because he steals bases and hits a fair amount of HR in parks that are good hitters parks. The guy epitomizes the term overrated. And in RFK he'll be lucky to be more than a replacement level hitter.
Being able to run and hit the ball out of the ball park are still two of the most important skills in baseball. Soriano reminds me of a young Sheffield. If he can ever learn plate discipline, he'll be an MVP candidate. His bat is that quick.
He's not young. He's 30 years old. I prefer getting on base a lot to stealing meaningless bases. He'll never learn discipline. He doesn't even try.OPS has nothing to do with it. Soriano had a higher OPS than Wilkerson but it wasn't because he's a better player. It was because of their respective home parks and the fact that Wilkerson was banged up all year.

This must be why Cappy oVVns you.

 
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(1) Contractually he is obligated to play OF if the team says so

(2) WTF is it with people here defending a guy who won't help his team when he gets paid 10 Million per year. :shrug:

Why would you side with this guy? He is selfish and greedy. Not to mention utterly overated.
He's a four time all star. How many times has Vidro been named an all star? Why on earth would an all star agree to switch positions, especially after he told the team trading for him that he absolutely would not play anything other than second base? It's analogous to Dallas having TO play tight end.
You don't follow baseball, do you? Vidro is an All-Star, too, and one who actually plays defense. Soriano is the worst second baseman in baseball, and it's not close. They showed a stat on ESPN this morning that in the last 4-5 years, Soriano has committed more than twice as many errors over that time span than the next second baseman on the list. Soriano was over 100, next guy on the list was below 50. That he's made All-Star teams is a testament to the a)idiocy of fan voting, and b)over-emphasis of some offensive categories.

So the answer to your question "Why would Soriano move" is a) because he sucks at the position at which he's allegedly a professional, and b) he's on a team with a superior baseball player playing "his" position.
Vidro was an all star, a few years ago, on a couple of Montreal teams that severly lacked talent. Remember that MLB requires each franchise to send a rep, so his all star appearances are a bit tainted, IMO.
 
I can't believe this is an argument....In all honesty, I haven't followed this story as closely as some of you probably, but doesn't the team decide where it's players play ultimately ? I know he doesn't want to play 2B, and has made this known in the past, but whatever happpened to being a professional, and doing what your manager asks ?

 
This just begs the question why did they trade for him to begin with? He's a butcher in the field, not particularly good with the bat, and expensive.
:eek: Soriano isn't Albert Pujols, but c'mon. He's not "good" with the bat?
Wilkerson was the best player in the deal and they gave up Wilkerson + to get Soriano. Morons.
:eek: Soriano > Wilkerson. Let's now go overboard on this OPS stuff.
Soriano is flashy because he steals bases and hits a fair amount of HR in parks that are good hitters parks. The guy epitomizes the term overrated. And in RFK he'll be lucky to be more than a replacement level hitter.
Being able to run and hit the ball out of the ball park are still two of the most important skills in baseball. Soriano reminds me of a young Sheffield. If he can ever learn plate discipline, he'll be an MVP candidate. His bat is that quick.
He's not young. He's 30 years old. I prefer getting on base a lot to stealing meaningless bases. He'll never learn discipline. He doesn't even try.OPS has nothing to do with it. Soriano had a higher OPS than Wilkerson but it wasn't because he's a better player. It was because of their respective home parks and the fact that Wilkerson was banged up all year.

This must be why Cappy oVVns you.
I agree that getting on base is underrated, but walks can be just as meaningless as SBs. I'm a big believer in Sabermetrics, but I think it can be taken too far, as in the case that you're making that Soriano isn't good with the bat.Speed on the basepaths has become so uncool that it's gone from overrated to underrated. Let me know when Oakland finally wins something in the Beane era. And don't forget that Boston wouldn't have their World Series crown without that Dave Roberts steal.

 
also, his bat works at any position, so why put him at 2nd, where he's clearly a detriment, and as I said THE WORST 2B IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE?!?!?!
:goodposting: I really don't get all these arguments that he's a better OFFENSIVE player at one DEFENSIVE position than he is at another.

They are two seperate issues.
It's a replacement value argument. It's a helluva lot easier finding a LF who can rake than a 2B who can rake.
That really doesn't matter. Should we put Adam Dunn at 2B?? I mean, that guy's a better hitter than Soriano. How about Vlad. CHRIST, COULD YOU IMAGINE HIS SALARY AT SECOND BASE??!?! He should demand to play there.
The difference, obviously (despite all your non-sequiturs), is that Soriano can play 2B. He's just not all that great there defensively.
 
I can't believe this is an argument....In all honesty, I haven't followed this story as closely as some of you probably, but doesn't the team decide where it's players play ultimately ? I know he doesn't want to play 2B, and has made this known in the past, but whatever happpened to being a professional, and doing what your manager asks ?
When it will cost him (probably) $20MM -- and he's always said he wouldn't shift -- why should he?
 
Don't know if this has been touched on, but John Daniels, the Rangers' new 29-year old manager refused to let the Nationals talk to Soriano before this trade went down. Pretty good move by the youngster, if you ask me.

 
I agree that getting on base is underrated, but walks can be just as meaningless as SBs. I'm a big believer in Sabermetrics, but I think it can be taken too far, as in the case that you're making that Soriano isn't good with the bat.

Speed on the basepaths has become so uncool that it's gone from overrated to underrated. Let me know when Oakland finally wins something in the Beane era. And don't forget that Boston wouldn't have their World Series crown without that Dave Roberts steal.
You can't get thrown out drawing a walk. I think we all know that anything can and will happen in the playoffs. Oakland gets there. What happens after that can't really be controlled and it has nothing to do with steals.Here are the Baseball Prospectus comments from 2005 and 2003 on Soriano:

2005

Probably the single most overrated player in baseball. Yes, it's interesting and exciting that he can hit a pitch two feet down and in over the fence. But what the hell is he doing swinging at it in the first place? Most of the time, he flails at that pitch and misses it, in yet another mini three-act play that has Soriano slowly loping back to the bench. He hit .244/.291/.444 on the road. Defensively, no metric places him as a good defensive second baseman, and one advance scout describes him as "beyond redemption" with the glove. Why, exactly, do people think this guy is anything remotely resembling a star? Are we that starved for excitement?

2003

The bigger, better, supercharged Juan Samuel for a new generation, with the tradeoff being that Soriano has a much worse glove but significantly more power, a tradeoff I’d take. Some insiders wonder why anybody ever throws Soriano a fastball or a strike, but so far, so good. The question is whether the Yankees can continue to make do with him at second. As Jeter has jokingly pointed out, Soriano can’t jump, which makes a move to the outfield look unlikely, if not craptastic. In general, the Yankees should only fret about moving Jeter or Soriano, not both.

 
Don't know if this has been touched on, but John Daniels, the Rangers' new 29-year old manager refused to let the Nationals talk to Soriano before this trade went down. Pretty good move by the youngster, if you ask me.
Just another reason why Bowden's an idiot.
 

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