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SP Mock Invitational--5th round? Uh huh....5th round...... (1 Viewer)

Was a bit worried since I'm busy today and tomorrow, but I figure we'll reach 25 in time for the draft...

What about adding a 6 hour time limit after the owner has been PMed?

 
Saints are accepting offers for the 1.12 from anyone interested.  If nothing happens in the next 1/2 hour I'll make a pick.

 
spider321 said:
I understand life happens, and most of us have work/family responsibilities.

...but if it's your turn, and you are available, please just make your pick.
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Ya i get it. But when its 6 hrs mid day vs 6 hrs in the early morning and i waited the better part of a day to get thru 9 picks....

not sure the '6hr wait' is that bad when were talking 6 am to noon on a saturday

 
I understand Pwingles.

Your reason is much more valid than the "Hey, let me make all of you wait so I can see if someone wants to make a trade in a friggin' mock draft!" people.  :D

It's a mock draft!!!  If you have previously agreed to a trade, fine.  If not, keep it moving.

lol

 
Didn't expect Lawson going that early . Okay I will follow Spiders advice - there's maybe only 1-2 players left on board that wouldn't make me want to trade down. 

If any of you want to potentially trade up to 16 just PM me.  Bills, Jets, Chiefs, Broncos drafters I'm wondering about you ( all rumoured to want a QB ). I'll fully confirm when I'm on the clock. 

I'm aware however that it may actually be easier to get trade downs in the teens in the real draft than it will be on here, but thought I'd ask anyway. 

 
I have updated the original post, and PMd the Dolphins GM.

I keep seeing Lawson falling, I don't see it.  I think he's a top 15 pick for sure.  Not sure what the problem is.  Plays DE, has great athletic traits, and is a true 4-3 DE.

 
Yeah I didn't mean so much that it's a crazy high place to take him, I'm just used to having him available to consider at 16 when mocking or looking at 'experts' mocks 

 
1.14 Raiders select Sheldon Rankins, DT, Louisville

JetMaxx/Titans have been PM'd

 
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massraider said:
1.14 Raiders select Sheldon Rankins, DT, Louisville
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Tape vs A&M was very uninspiring.  Very little hustle, slow off the ball, poor effort when chasing, got pushed back a lot even when not double teamed.  I love Billings and Butler and would take either one every day and twice on Sunday over Rankins.  I really respect your NFL knowledge, and it's much better than mine over the last two years but I think I have this one nailed.  I've heard that A&M game may have been one of his worst, and maybe he was fighting the flu or was out partying the night before, but based on that tape I wouldn't take him in the 1st.  Perhaps I just need to watch more of him.

 
I appreciate your point of view on the relative value of the DTs available in this draft Cookie. There are so many quality players at that position this year, it is kind of hard to sort them all out and rank them well. Some may fit some schemes better than others, or be of greater interest to some teams because of personnel they already have.

I think Rankins is a really good prospect but now I want to watch the A&M game and see if I have similar observations.

 
Biabreakable said:
I appreciate your point of view on the relative value of the DTs available in this draft Cookie. There are so many quality players at that position this year, it is kind of hard to sort them all out and rank them well. Some may fit some schemes better than others, or be of greater interest to some teams because of personnel they already have.

I think Rankins is a really good prospect but now I want to watch the A&M game and see if I have similar observations.
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Here ya go.

I stopped counting the number of plays he could have saved yardage on if he had just turned it on and chased the ball carrier.  You could see him shift gears only after he knew he could get there and you can see the physical ability, but with such sporadic effort I'd be cautious about drafting him that high.  Love him as a mid-second, and he is a high-character player that you know you'll have no off-field issues with but that doesn't make up for what I see in this video.

He definitely shocks O linemen when he hits them, but his lack of get-off leaves the O initiating contact a lot and aside from pushing his blockers back a couple yards, shows very limited moves to disengage.  I understand he played out of position a lot in this game, but even when he was inside at his natural spot, he was often washed out of the running lanes and didn't regularly beat one-on-one blocks and got blown out by double teams.  Once or twice I saw him make a flash play that was highly impressive, but a first rounder needs to give that kind of effort on more than 10% of his snaps.

Rankins vs Auburn

ALWAYS the last guy to move at the snap (as in A&M vid).  Quite often stymied by a single blocker and even stopped by an RB in this video too.  Only a couple times did he manage to disengage once a blocker was locked on.

Billings vs Oklahoma

Bilings vs K St.

Billings is quicker, stronger and gives more effort.  Pretty undisciplined and often out of control or off balance.  Has trouble picking his way through traffic.  I'll take the guy who makes a mistake giving full effort over the guy who puts forth great effort with talent so infrequently.

Butler vs K St.

This is the guy I'd draft as the 2nd DT behind Buckner.

 
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1.15 The Tennessee Titans select Reggie Ragland, ILB, Alabama

The depth on the DL has us going in another direction here. The center of this defense needs to be strengthened. This is step 1.

 
1.16 The Detroit Lions select Emmanuel Ogbah, DE, Oklahoma State

The first plan was to take Conklin if he fell.

Failing that then Rankins.

If those two were gone then it was an easy choice to take either of Lawson or Dodd as the Lions currently only have 3 rostered DE's. Get someone to pair with Ansah and you could have something really nice on the cards. DT is set for at least a year with Ngata/Walker/Reid/Wright/Charles on the roster.

With all those players going off the board, plans were blown to smithereens. A trade down would have been nice. 

The argument became BPA v positional need.

Floyd, Lee, A Robinson, Reed were all heavily considered. Robinson comes across as an intelligent model pro who will contribute for many years.

In the end though, I felt like a slight reach was in order here. With DE's dropping like flies, I decided to fill our biggest positional need with a player who is projected mid 1st to early 2nd rounds, had a very good combine, and has plenty of potential left in him. Ansah and Ogbah as bookend DE's has a nice ring to it. Will help with pass rush and hopefully develop against the run.

It seemed like very soon there would be no highly rated DE's left. Lets see what OLBs, OTs, DTs fall to round 2 I suspect there will be some good value there.

 
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Alright.

The first play he pushes back the RG and picks up a double team from the center. The RB cuts behind the center to a hole off of LG because he cannot go through Rankins.

The second play the defense crashes to the right. The center uses his momentum against him, the RG is trying to help double team but Rankins was too quick to the right side for him to follow. The run is to the left and LBs free to make the play in part due to RG trying to follow Rankins.

3rd play they run a stunt motion before the snap of the play making Rankins the LE, they bring pressure off the left side and Rankins pushes the RG all the way back to the QB on the single team block.

4th play (37 second mark) he lines up directly over the center and pushes him backward so he can disengage from the block and make the play on the RB which he does.

5th play he gets blocked by the RG 72 who holds him at the LOS while the RB finds a hole up the middle for a decent gain. The LB was there to meet the RB in the hole but just completely wiffs for some reason.

6th play he lines up at RE and gets blocked pretty well by the LT. The run is to the opposite side and I think there was a facemask on the block at the point of attack.

7th play he lines up at RE again. He beats his blocker by shoving him to the inside and gets free to pass rush. Number 79 is pulling across to the left and tries to cut block Rankins slowing him down, but Rankins keeps his feet and pressures the QB.

8th play he comes outside to the left on a stunt move before the snap (lots of defenders moving) and gets near the QB who gets rid of the ball but it is deflected by another pass rusher coming behind Rankins and they get a turnover.

9th play Lines up at LE and 74 the RT is a bit bigger player than some of the others hes faced. He does a pretty good job of keeping Rankins off the line.

10th play LE again. He gets penetration this time then uses a spin move to get back to the ball carrier and makes the play.

11th play he lines up at RE and does a twist to the inside. The outside pass rusher gets to the QB for a sack on the outside but you see Rankins manuever past 72 and get into the backfield pretty quickly with his rush if the QB had tried to escape back into the pocket.

12th play RE Rankins engages the LT but breaks off when the runner who is on the left side of the field reaches the LOS. He disengages from the blocker quickly, he was holding the point of attack on his side until the RB committed like he is supposed to do.

13th play he lines up at RE and gets pass rush into the backfield on the QB although blockers are still engaging him allowing the QB to step up.

14th play at RE he pushes the LT back towards the QB with his power pass rush.

15th play at RE they try to run to his side with some pulling blockers. He holds the point of attack while being blocked then disengages and makes the play on the RB at or behind the LOS despite multiple blockers pulling to that side.

The next 10 or so plays are much of the same. However he does seem to wear down some half way into the second quarter. Number 74 does a good job of blocking him another three or four times that I saw. He gets double teamed a lot and he played outside much of the first half before playing inside more in the second half. He doesn't seem to have the same burst of explosiveness that he had during these first 15 to 25 plays later on in the game.

 
At 1.17 the ATLANTA FALCONS sprint to the podium to get some speed, coverage ability, and pass rush ability in their linebacker Corp.

DARRON LEE OLB OHIO STATE

 
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JetMaxx said:
1.15 The Tennessee Titans select Reggie Ragland, ILB, Alabama

The depth on the DL has us going in another direction here. The center of this defense needs to be strengthened. This is step 1.
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You made the Falcons' pick at 17 easier by taking Ragland off the board.

Nice pick.

 
I see what you mean about Rankins pursuit on the screen plays Cookie. It was smart for Texas to start calling more screens as they were playing him so much at DE. He doesn't really have the speed to pursue those well.

 
TartanLion said:
1.16 The Detroit Lions select Emmanuel Ogbah, DE, Oklahoma State

The first plan was to take Conklin if he fell.

Failing that then Rankins.

If those two were gone then it was an easy choice to take either of Lawson or Dodd as the Lions currently only have 3 rostered DE's. Get someone to pair with Ansah and you could have something really nice on the cards. DT is set for at least a year with Ngata/Walker/Reid/Wright/Charles on the roster.

With all those players going off the board, plans were blown to smithereens. A trade down would have been nice. 

The argument became BPA v positional need.

Floyd, Lee, A Robinson, Reed were all heavily considered. Robinson comes across as an intelligent model pro who will contribute for many years.

In the end though, I felt like a slight reach was in order here. With DE's dropping like flies, I decided to fill our biggest positional need with a player who is projected mid 1st to early 2nd rounds, had a very good combine, and has plenty of potential left in him. Ansah and Ogbah as bookend DE's has a nice ring to it. Will help with pass rush and hopefully develop against the run.

It seemed like very soon there would be no highly rated DE's left. Lets see what OLBs, OTs, DTs fall to round 2 I suspect there will be some good value there.
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Really does seem like worst case scenario.

 
Ilov80s said:
Really does seem like worst case scenario.
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I know, right ?

I'm pretty confident one of Lawson or Dodd will be available to us in the real thing. If Conklin is somehow there then great bite their hand off. 

At least if all else fails we can maybe trade down and/or still grab a nice pass rushing piece to add to the linebacker corps of Levy/Whitehead/Bynes/Van Noy.

I'm just not a fan of taking a DT in round 1 when there's so much depth. Unless you get Conklin, you basically kind of hope that in round 2 either A) one of the next level OT's is still there  to be weighed up against  B) A quality DT from the deep pool being available. Barring any glaring choices at LB/S, CB, OG/C. 

 
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TartanLion said:
I'm just not a fan of taking a DT in round 1 when there's so much depth. 
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Me either, but it depends on the DT.  My taking Rankins was a bit of an experiment, to see what a Raider draft would look like.

A lot of these guys are not considered pass rushers.  But the question becomes:  Can a team get Nkemdiche, Jones, or Bullard in the 2nd round, or will they be gone?  Or are you left getting a nice block-eater?  

And, there's something to be said for getting the pick of the litter.  

 
massraider said:
Me either, but it depends on the DT.  My taking Rankins was a bit of an experiment, to see what a Raider draft would look like.

A lot of these guys are not considered pass rushers.  But the question becomes:  Can a team get Nkemdiche, Jones, or Bullard in the 2nd round, or will they be gone?  Or are you left getting a nice block-eater?  

And, there's something to be said for getting the pick of the litter.  
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For sure man. Hence why Rankins was on my shortlist with Conklin/Lawson/Dodd. I just drew the line at Robinson who seems to have slid in the past month and Reed whom for some reason I can't buy into at 16. It's obviously team dependant as well and we have a massive glaring need at DE and not DT. 

 
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Cookiemonster said:
Here ya go.

I stopped counting the number of plays he could have saved yardage on if he had just turned it on and chased the ball carrier.  You could see him shift gears only after he knew he could get there and you can see the physical ability, but with such sporadic effort I'd be cautious about drafting him that high.  Love him as a mid-second, and he is a high-character player that you know you'll have no off-field issues with but that doesn't make up for what I see in this video.

He definitely shocks O linemen when he hits them, but his lack of get-off leaves the O initiating contact a lot and aside from pushing his blockers back a couple yards, shows very limited moves to disengage.  I understand he played out of position a lot in this game, but even when he was inside at his natural spot, he was often washed out of the running lanes and didn't regularly beat one-on-one blocks and got blown out by double teams.  Once or twice I saw him make a flash play that was highly impressive, but a first rounder needs to give that kind of effort on more than 10% of his snaps.

Rankins vs Auburn

ALWAYS the last guy to move at the snap (as in A&M vid).  Quite often stymied by a single blocker and even stopped by an RB in this video too.  Only a couple times did he manage to disengage once a blocker was locked on.

Billings vs Oklahoma

Bilings vs K St.

Billings is quicker, stronger and gives more effort.  Pretty undisciplined and often out of control or off balance.  Has trouble picking his way through traffic.  I'll take the guy who makes a mistake giving full effort over the guy who puts forth great effort with talent so infrequently.

Butler vs K St.

This is the guy I'd draft as the 2nd DT behind Buckner.
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So after I watched the Rankins game I also watched both of Billings games you linked.

I think Billings seems a bit stronger and trying to battle more than Rankins does. I don't think he is as fast in pursuit as Rankins is not that this is a strength of either player. I did see one instance of Billings playing a middle zone off a zone blitz. This is where he looks very slow. I am a bit amazed they had him do this.

Billings is a player that is kind of popular with the Vikings but he does not strike me as a quick under tackle which is more what I think the Vikings are looking for than a nose tackle where I think they are pretty set with Linval Joseph. So perhaps his combativeness with other blockers is not as valued from my perspective as I am looking for a quicker player than this.

Billings seems to be unaware of where the ball is at times. Continuing to engage with players away from the flow of the play. Some of the run design seemed to work against his aggressiveness and lack of awareness of direction of the play at times as well.

If these two players were the only options available to me I think I would prefer Rankins based off of what I watched today. I didn't watch the Butler link yet.

 
I can truly say on Billings that I have no idea.  

My only thought is that he needs to go to a team that uses him in a very specific role.  I think he could work as a penetrating nose tackle, but I dunno how many teams use that any more.  I don't believe he's going to consistently penetrate as a pass rusher.  

 
Did anyone contact Ben and Jerrys? I did.

I know he was looking to trade down earlier but he wanted a bit too much for me to try to move up to 18.

The way things have fallen so far I am not seeing much need to move up, A couple picks could possibly change my mind though.

 
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I'd say everyone did a pretty good job drafting so far. Seen a few comments of "the real draft won't go like this" but really I don't see any bad picks that would make me think it wouldn't go like this. If anything the two moves that have actually taking place seem to be the things that we would say "that will never happen."

I say this with the common sense idea that we won't be close. But I think this might be closer than we think too. 

 
spider321 said:
At 1.17 the ATLANTA FALCONS sprint to the podium to get some speed, coverage ability, and pass rush ability in their linebacker Corp.

DARRON LEE OLB OHIO STATE
Click to expand...
Great pick. Not only do I think this is a good pick because of the player but I think that the fit with Dan Quinn is excellent. 

 
Borden said:
Unless they are thinking about giving the guy throwing the ball more time in the pocket. Or trying to keep him a bit more healthy. 

Beside Hilton, Dorsett, Moncreif, Allen should be serviceable. 
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imjackdupp was being sarcastic, due to the seemingly unnecessary Phillip Dorsett pick in the 1st last year.

 
Borden said:
I'd say everyone did a pretty good job drafting so far. Seen a few comments of "the real draft won't go like this" but really I don't see any bad picks that would make me think it wouldn't go like this. If anything the two moves that have actually taking place seem to be the things that we would say "that will never happen."

I say this with the common sense idea that we won't be close. But I think this might be closer than we think too. 
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The 'real" draft won't go like this is because some actual team will not pick the highest rated player at the highest thought to be "need".  go figure the published needs are not the same as what the actual team thinks and most teams have their own board that does not match our general ones. 

 
Biabreakable said:
Well I sent our benevolent host a message about the Bills being on the clock shortly after the Colts made their pick.

Anyone opposed to Borden or someone else making the pick? 
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Meh.

It's only been an hour.  Maybe he's out getting some strange on this Saturday night.  lol.

I do vote that we skip the picks of people who want to take trade offers while "in a meeting" for 2 hours, yet they posted 4 times in that same span. :D

 
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