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I know they (Bears runners) are similar in style, but the Bears rotated series with them. Maybe the Chiefs will use West and Ware as a thunder and lightning combo. West best fits the style of Charles.
Even though it is running a little counter to what my gut says in how this will play out, this is the one aspect that makes me lean towards Ware. I have never ever heard a football coach or GM that has ever said they don't want/need to be more physical. This is the one aspect of football, especially at this time of the season and with the weather, that allows teams who have it to really take control. It is what has made teams like the Seahawks and Packers and Giants so successful in recent years. They play some physical football at the right time of the year and teams like the Falcons and Saints, Colts, etc don't want any part of it.
No - it was germane to the point of the discussion: YPC becomes less relevant the smaller the sample sizes (plus you said he didn't have any big runs affecting his ypc):.JuniorNB said:
So out of 36 carries, you want to remove his longest two to figure out his yards per carry? That's 5.5% of his carries. Take away the longest 5.5% of Adrian Peterson's 237 carries. That would be his longest 13 carries. Then figure out his yards per carry for the rest. I bet it's lower than 4.3. It's only 4.9 with them all in there.
I understand that. Take away his longest run and he's still over 5.0 ypc. Take away his second longest too, and he's still at 4.3 ypc. For reference, West is at 3.8 ypc. And that's allowing him the privileged of keeping his longest runs in there.
Do you even read what you respond to or are you just looking to argue in order to argue?
I read just fine. Just because nothing I'm posting indicates West is nearly as good running the ball, doesn't mean I'm not paying attention. I know you only bolded the parts that fit your agenda, but right after that, I said he has 36 carries, not 10. If he had that 52 yarder and only ten carries, it would skew his ypc a great deal. I said if you remove the 52 yarder, he's still at 5.0 yards per carry. Which is higher than Peterson and Gurley are averaging. In other words, he's earned carries going forward. With or without West being healthy. And that's all I've been saying all along. Are you arguing that statement? Or do you think it's right back to West being the every down back all game long?
I posted these facts to refute your claim that "he doesn't have that super long run that skewing his stat line." That claim is factually incorrect.
I don't consider a 52 yard run with 36 carries to be misrepresenting his great yards per carry. That makes my statement factually correct. Without the 52 yarder, he's still averaging more per carry than Adrian Peterson, who is in the MVP talks.I posted these facts to refute your claim that "he doesn't have that super long run that skewing his stat line." That claim is factually incorrect.
ETA: If your point in posting that was really about West vs. Ware going forward, then make your points without posting incorrect statements.
A 52 yard run on only 36 carries increases his ypc almost 1.5 yards. This is significant. Where as an 80 yard run on 250 carries only increases ypc about a third of a yardI don't consider a 52 yard run with 36 carries to be misrepresenting his great yards per carry. That makes my statement factually correct. Without the 52 yarder, he's still averaging more per carry than Adrian Peterson, who is in the MVP talks.ETA: My point is that Andy Reid isn't blind to these numbers and has been present at the games (where they're 2-0 by the way). That is very relevant to the West vs. Ware discussion.I posted these facts to refute your claim that "he doesn't have that super long run that skewing his stat line." That claim is factually incorrect.
ETA: If your point in posting that was really about West vs. Ware going forward, then make your points without posting incorrect statements.
That is correct. And I've stated such about a half dozen times. WITHOUT THE 52 YARD RUN, Ware is still averaging more than Adrian Peterson this year. Let's take the run out. I'll petition the league. Forget he had that run. Let's pretend it was purely luck and every back in the league could have gained just as much on that carry. He's still more than a yard per attempt better than West.A 52 yard run on only 36 carries increases his ypc almost 1.5 yards. This is significant. Where as an 80 run on 250 carries only increases ypc about a third of a yardI don't consider a 52 yard run with 36 carries to be misrepresenting his great yards per carry. That makes my statement factually correct. Without the 52 yarder, he's still averaging more per carry than Adrian Peterson, who is in the MVP talks.ETA: My point is that Andy Reid isn't blind to these numbers and has been present at the games (where they're 2-0 by the way). That is very relevant to the West vs. Ware discussion.I posted these facts to refute your claim that "he doesn't have that super long run that skewing his stat line." That claim is factually incorrect.
ETA: If your point in posting that was really about West vs. Ware going forward, then make your points without posting incorrect statements.
I doubt we'll hear anything about West's status until Wednesday, but I anticipate him being good to go. There were reports that he was pushing hard to play on Sunday. As for usage, that's anyone's guess. My personal guess is that West will get the start. And then alternate series. Probably play on all the third and longs because of his receiving ability, with Ware getting the short yardage work. Again, that's 100% conjecture. I'll be watching with curiosity like the rest of us.
Why? West has been excellent at the GL.
No one wants to take away ANY of his runs. It was pointed out to you that ypc on such a small sample size (for both KC backs) doesn't mean all that much. You claimed that Ware didn't have any long runs to skew the ypc (the long run was only pointed out to correct this factual inaccuracy).
I'm not sure if anything is clear right now, but it wouldn't be surprising. Heck, Davis would get goal-line carries once in a while even when Charles was healthy. It could be Ware, getting them all or just a case of leaving whichever back was already out there in the game.
Ware is clearly the more powerful back, this isn't up for debate, I think. He has 25 pounds on West as well. 3rd and 1, I think Ware would obviously be the guy, no? Same from the 1 yard line...
I would say you'll have to wait until the practice reports come out. Oakland is a weird defense. They stopped Ivory (he had a couple back to back bad games), but got destroyed by DWill and ADP for 370+ yards in 2 games. I think the Chiefs can run on them, so I think Ware should be a decent play. If West doesn't practice much then I think Ware is a great play, but I think he is still a good play even if West practices in full. If Ware plays well against Oak, then I think outside of week 15, he will be a great play the rest of the season. Oak, SD, Bal (worst match up), Oak and Cle (I have him in one week 17 league).
I actually agree with this too. And whenever I've discussed what I think the split will be, I've said I imagine West will receive most of the third down work because of his pas catching advantage.
I don't like to argue, especially with certain people where it just doesn't seem fare. So I'll end this discussion that you can't seem to grasp.I actually agree with this too. And whenever I've discussed what I think the split will be, I've said I imagine West will receive most of the third down work because of his pas catching advantage.
Sounds like we agree on everything but you want to argue. Which is fine. If you haven't noticed, I enjoy that. As for comparing him to Peterson, I wasn't. I was using Peterson's ypc on the season to point out that Ware's is better even without the 52 yard run that you want to take away and are so obsessed about. For the record, I think Peterson is better.
You mean the argument where we seem to agree on everything? Ok. Let's call it a draw. Go West/Ware split!I don't like to argue, especially with certain people where it just doesn't seem fare. So I'll end this discussion that you can't seem to grasp.I actually agree with this too. And whenever I've discussed what I think the split will be, I've said I imagine West will receive most of the third down work because of his pas catching advantage.
Sounds like we agree on everything but you want to argue. Which is fine. If you haven't noticed, I enjoy that. As for comparing him to Peterson, I wasn't. I was using Peterson's ypc on the season to point out that Ware's is better even without the 52 yard run that you want to take away and are so obsessed about. For the record, I think Peterson is better.
Go Ware!!!!
What do you mean by excellent? I just took a quick look. Inside the 5 yard line, he's done this:
That would make Ware the more traditional (logical) candidate, but Charles wasn't really pulled at the goal-line and West is the same size as him.
Great research. I was wondering if West was good at short yardage. There used to be a website that have short yardage information in a nice table format. Can't remember what it was though.
So, 75% of drives within the 10 he's played, he's scored a TD. I'd call that excellent. Ware is 4/4 which is outstanding but it's not like West keeps getting denied or not even playing once it gets close. Again, we're back where we started.
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West has 40% success rate from inside the 5 (2 for 5)
Semantics. Sometimes it's takes him a try or two to get in but the fact is, he gets in.
If you're assuming you're always 1st and goal from the 3, I suppose you're right. The reality is, that's rarely the case.
Not true. He admitted that he only included the drives where Kansas City scored a touchdown inside the five. The ones where West came up short and the Chiefs settled for a field goal, aren't there.
Are there any? I honestly don't know. Or, what about when Charles was playing? Why wasn't Ware pounding them in when JC was starting? How about the opponent... 80% against SD and a Williams/Williams-less Buffalo front isn't exactly stiff opposition. Pittsburgh and Denver are considerably stouter.
I don't know the answer to whether there were instances where West had carries inside the five and the Chiefs had to settle for a field goal. The only way I'd know to find out is to go through every game log and look at each drive chart. I don't care enough to put that much effort into it.
Not quite, West was 3 for 6 (Poe scored after West didn't get in), Ware is 4 for 4. Also, West did lose GL/TD carries on drives to Poe, Ware and Thomas. I don't know all the game situations and again West has been fine in the red zone, no doubt about it. Ware has been money though, getting into the end zone on 1 attempt 3 times from the 3 or 4 yard line and in 2 attempts 1 time from the 4 yard line.
