St. Louis Police release cell phone video of Powell shooting (1 Viewer)

[msommer]

Death by cop is a form of suicide, no? This is pretty similar to something that happened on Snith St in Brooklyn 8-9 years ago.

Not sure anyone could think the cops had a choice here. Under the current rules of engagement that's a justified shooting. I guess you could make the argument that's not how they would do it in Denmark/Japan/UK and that's a worthy discussion. It doesn't change anything about this situation.

Why?

 

[jon_mx]

Interesting how a lot of young black men turn crazy and suicidal whenever they are approached by cops. It seems to be an epidemic...

First off, people don't just "turn crazy". Your statement displays gross ignorance about mental health.

Secondly, your post reeks of race-baiting. You may as well have said "Interesting how a lot of young black men like watermelon and fried chicken."

Pretty sure timbo was employing sarcasm there, Cochise.

Even recognizing the sarcasm, on the stupid scale that post still ranks really ####### stupid.

 

[jamny]

Yeah, I wish there was more consideration for a non-lethal, take them out at the knees, kind of response. I guess there are plenty of examples of that going wrong and the officer getting injured so they just go center mass to take them out. There has to be some middle ground though.

 

[msommer]

Yeah, I wish there was more consideration for a non-lethal, take them out at the knees, kind of response. I guess there are plenty of examples of that going wrong and the officer getting injured so they just go center mass to take them out. There has to be some middle ground though.

It would be interesting to see statistics on that: officer injury while using non lethal tactics vs lives saved by non lethal tactics. spot trends if any

 

[Otis]

Question and a sarcastic comment:

 

[Otis]

Why is it cops in these things always fire like a dozen shots. Seriously? Maybe just two puts him down and he's no longer a threat? Why fill the guy with a million bullets?

 

[Otis]

Have the locals started looting the Target yet as revenge for this?

 

[otello]

Based on the video, I can't say that the officers acted unreasonably in defending themselves.

 

[NJ]

lol, it seems like some people think that the way this should have gone down is 1) Dude comes at cops with knife screaming shoot me 2) First cop should pepper spray dude with knife 3) Coughing dude with knife stabs first cop in the eye 4) Then its ok for 2nd cop to shoot dude with knife.

 

[3C's]

lol, it seems like some people think that the way this should have gone down is 1) Dude comes at cops with knife screaming shoot me 2) First cop should pepper spray dude with knife 3) Coughing dude with knife stabs first cop in the eye 4) Then its ok for 2nd cop to shoot dude with knife.

But 2nd cop has to try to shoot him in the leg first. Then when he misses, he has to try again, and even if he gets one and the guy keeps coming he has to try for the other leg.

 

[Henry Ford]

Do I wish they had found a way to keep him alive? Sure. But I don't think you can make a case that they were obligated to. Guy has a weapon and is coming at them. Oops, bullets.

 

[=Smackdown=]

"Shoot me now !"

Good job stupid !

Looks like suicide by cops to me

 

[GroveDiesel]

Some of you watch way too many movies and have no clue about guns.

Lol at "shoot him in the legs" and "fire one bullet".

 

[jamny]

Looks like suicide by coos to me

What a way to go!

 

[msommer]

Some of you watch way too many movies and have no clue about guns.

Lol at "shoot him in the legs" and "fire one bullet".

Explain to me why what you lol at is possible outside the US.

Super cops?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Some of you watch way too many movies and have no clue about guns.

Lol at "shoot him in the legs" and "fire one bullet".

Explain to me why what you lol at is possible outside the US.Super cops?

Shooting at the legs with a pistol is a very low percentage shot. Especially when the suspect is charging you.

Citing one time where it was successful and acting like that's typical is silliness.

 

[tdoss]

If you shoot...you shoot to kill.

Guy with a knife comes at me...I'm blasting until he hits the ground.

They don't know what this guy is on...hell, they even cuff his carcass in efforts of keeping themselves and everyone else safe.

Much racial ado about nothing.

And I personally cannot stand cops.

 

[msommer]

Some of you watch way too many movies and have no clue about guns.

Lol at "shoot him in the legs" and "fire one bullet".

Explain to me why what you lol at is possible outside the US.Super cops?

Shooting at the legs with a pistol is a very low percentage shot. Especially when the suspect is charging you.

Citing one time where it was successful and acting like that's typical is silliness.

Sorry to shock you but in the civilized world gunning down mentally ill people wielding knives is the exception, not the norm

 

[GroveDiesel]

I didn't see the knife either, but the cops told him to drop it, and others around him pleaded with him to drop it too. If he had the knife and came at the cops then there is an argument to be made. Has to be a non-lethal way to bring a guy guilty of robbing two sodas down.

In many other countries there are.Talk down, pepper spray, shoot in leg.

And these are not academic examples. All have happened in Denmark within the last seven years or so. IIRC the guy who was shot in the legs (I think it was twice) was wielding a katana (the long samurai sword).

So in one case we have an armed assailant cursing at police, telling them to kill him and charging them. In the other case we have a drunk armed man walking away from the police towards a group of other civilians. Yeah, almost the same scenario. I'd argue that shooting someone in the legs that is walking away from the police towards other civilians is a MORE reckless than shooting a charging suspect in the chest.

http://www.vice.com/en_dk/read/swedish-police-shooting-a-man-to-the-ground

 

[Sinn Fein]

I think this all comes down to better training on how to deal with volatile situations. Shooting a suspect who is threatening police officers, or others, is one solution to the problem, but it is not the only solution.

Yes, the person who threatens a police officer put his/her own life at risk - and they should accept that death may be a consequence of those actions - assuming they understand those consequences. But, as a society, it seems we should value all lives, and work towards how best to preserve them.

The other factor here, that I think favors the officers (at least because they don't have better training), is that they have to make a very quick decision. This guy, while probably not a real threat to anyone, could easily have gone back towards the people who had gathered, making it more difficult for the police officers to contain the situation, or even fire in that direction if necessary.

Bottom line, we should be providing our police officers with fewer tactical assault weapons, and COD-type training, and more incapacitation-type weapons, and training on how to defuse volatile situations - or contain them until help arrives.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Well, I guess I'm glad I didn't respond to this earlier.

• Where in the video is the scuffle at the car...
• ...and the reaching for the officer's gun?
• When is the eye socket broken?
• When is the police officer "charged"?
• When was the guy retreating?
• When was he shot in the back?
• When was he surrendering with his hands up?
• When was he surrendering by getting down?

Seems like no matter what side I could have taken I would be basing my opinion in large part on something simply not true.

Me thinks you're lost

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Some of you watch way too many movies and have no clue about guns.

Lol at "shoot him in the legs" and "fire one bullet".

Explain to me why what you lol at is possible outside the US.Super cops?

Shooting at the legs with a pistol is a very low percentage shot. Especially when the suspect is charging you.

Citing one time where it was successful and acting like that's typical is silliness.

Sorry to shock you but in the civilized world gunning down mentally ill people wielding knives is the exception, not the norm

The moral thing to do would be to abort them.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

<A bunch of wrong>

Me thinks you're lost

Yes, I crossed myself up.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Some of you watch way too many movies and have no clue about guns.

Lol at "shoot him in the legs" and "fire one bullet".

Should have shot the knife out of his hand

 

[Ilov80s]

Honestly the worst part, like many of the people in the video point out, is them flipping him and cuffing him while he is dead/dying. It leaves a really bad impression.

 

[comfortably numb]

Some of you watch way too many movies and have no clue about guns.

Lol at "shoot him in the legs" and "fire one bullet".

Should have shot the knife out of his hand

 

[AAABatteries]

Looks like suicide by coos to me

What a way to go!

 

[lod01]

I'm not sure why the cops wouldn't use their tasers. Can somone explain?

Wasn't like a standoff. This escalated immediately. He was screaming shoot me and was coming at the cops. Got within 5 feet.The "overhand grip" did not happen but I don't know what you would expect the cops to do in this instance.

I couldn't tell if he was holding a knife.

Subdue him without using deadly force.

You are welcome to try buddy and when that knife is sticking in your heart, don't expect pity from the rest of us.

 

[Courtjester]

Some of you watch way too many movies and have no clue about guns.

Lol at "shoot him in the legs" and "fire one bullet".

Should have shot the knife out of his hand

And here is correct answer.

Then one of them should have shot at his feet and told him to dance--while the other sang a whimsical tune.

 

[dgreen]

Honestly the worst part, like many of the people in the video point out, is them flipping him and cuffing him while he is dead/dying. It leaves a really bad impression.

Not sure how much they should care about impressions at that exact time.

 

[comfortably numb]

[or else]

 

[lod01]

at debating whether you see a knife or not. Like as if the cops mistook a hoagie sandwich for a knife. (Casino)

 

[Ilov80s]

Honestly the worst part, like many of the people in the video point out, is them flipping him and cuffing him while he is dead/dying. It leaves a really bad impression.

Not sure how much they should care about impressions at that exact time.

Were they still threatened by him? Also, when the cops shoot and kill someone, they should care about the impression it makes. It's very serious. Maybe I am missing something, but I just don't get why they flipped and cuffed a dying/dead guy?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Not seeing the problem here.

 

[dgreen]

Honestly the worst part, like many of the people in the video point out, is them flipping him and cuffing him while he is dead/dying. It leaves a really bad impression.

Not sure how much they should care about impressions at that exact time.

Were they still threatened by him? Also, when the cops shoot and kill someone, they should care about the impression it makes. It's very serious. Maybe I am missing something, but I just don't get why they flipped and cuffed a dying/dead guy?

I don't get it either, but I'm guessing they did it for a reason. My initial guess is that members of law enforcement would say, "Yeah, they're supposed to cuff him because of X, Y, and Z." But, of course, I could be totally wrong. It looks and feels wrong to an ignorant person like me. Just seems they were following some procedure and I'd think most of their procedures are in place for good reasons.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Not seeing the problem here.

Let me help you out then.

That is ####### insane. No wonder people have lost faith in the police force.

Those cops should do time.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Not seeing the problem here.

Let me help you out then.

That is ####### insane. No wonder people have lost faith in the police force.

Those cops should do time.

Yeah, but its well established Gunz is a crazy person.

You go towards the police with a knife while yelling like an idiot, you're going to die (and rightfully so).

 

[lod01]

Not seeing the problem here.

That's because there is none.

 

[Fat Nick]

I would agree that a tazer is more logical, but it was a man with a weapon, and I do think shooting is justified...but I don't understand why you've got to unload a clip into the guy. I feel like in a situation with a knife, the first shot should be to the leg or to wound. Just turning the guy into a sieve seems like overkill.

Is there some police code that basically states that when you make the decision to shoot, you should shoot to kill?

 

[Quez]

As soon as they thought the guy had a weapon they were probably sighted in on the area of greatest mass. Maybe they couldn't tell clearly if it was a gun in his hand since they are trained to keep in target?

I would of shot him in the leg, then again I was pretty good at FPS unlike these n00by cops

 

[Ilov80s]

Honestly the worst part, like many of the people in the video point out, is them flipping him and cuffing him while he is dead/dying. It leaves a really bad impression.

Not sure how much they should care about impressions at that exact time.

Were they still threatened by him? Also, when the cops shoot and kill someone, they should care about the impression it makes. It's very serious. Maybe I am missing something, but I just don't get why they flipped and cuffed a dying/dead guy?

I don't get it either, but I'm guessing they did it for a reason. My initial guess is that members of law enforcement would say, "Yeah, they're supposed to cuff him because of X, Y, and Z." But, of course, I could be totally wrong. It looks and feels wrong to an ignorant person like me. Just seems they were following some procedure and I'd think most of their procedures are in place for good reasons.

Right, I mean, I am sure it is to make sure he doesn't recover and pull a weapon. In the heat of the situation, you go with what your training says to do. It just looks really bad. The real issue isn't cops or guns or black men, it's that this country has some real ####ed up anger issues. The cops are on edge and quick to get violent because the people are on edge and quick to get violent. The people flip out on the cops because the cops are overly aggressive in their pursuit to get tough on crime. Politicians, judges and voters seem to support further escalation as we continue to militarize local police, increase special forces style no knock raids, use advanced spy techniques on citizens which only makes people feel more threatened and become more hostile. What's the end game here?

 

[msommer]

I didn't see the knife either, but the cops told him to drop it, and others around him pleaded with him to drop it too. If he had the knife and came at the cops then there is an argument to be made. Has to be a non-lethal way to bring a guy guilty of robbing two sodas down.

In many other countries there are.Talk down, pepper spray, shoot in leg.

And these are not academic examples. All have happened in Denmark within the last seven years or so. IIRC the guy who was shot in the legs (I think it was twice) was wielding a katana (the long samurai sword).

So in one case we have an armed assailant cursing at police, telling them to kill him and charging them. In the other case we have a drunk armed man walking away from the police towards a group of other civilians. Yeah, almost the same scenario.I'd argue that shooting someone in the legs that is walking away from the police towards other civilians is a MORE reckless than shooting a charging suspect in the chest.

http://www.vice.com/en_dk/read/swedish-police-shooting-a-man-to-the-ground

Dude, I know you are American, but do try to understand a little bit more about geography.

Denmark and Sweden are not the same, so just because Swedish police had a sword wielding drunkard, doesn't make it the cases I have spoken about.

 

[Quez]

Can anyone tell what the guys are saying? The Middle Eastern looking guy from the store, said "come on bro drop it bro" and one cop said drop the gun. Maybe the shooting officer was listening to people say it was a gun, if he wasn't the one who shot. Then at 2:05 it sounds like the witnesses were saying "yeah they had too, he was tripping"

 

[GroveDiesel]

I didn't see the knife either, but the cops told him to drop it, and others around him pleaded with him to drop it too. If he had the knife and came at the cops then there is an argument to be made. Has to be a non-lethal way to bring a guy guilty of robbing two sodas down.

In many other countries there are.Talk down, pepper spray, shoot in leg.

And these are not academic examples. All have happened in Denmark within the last seven years or so. IIRC the guy who was shot in the legs (I think it was twice) was wielding a katana (the long samurai sword).

So in one case we have an armed assailant cursing at police, telling them to kill him and charging them. In the other case we have a drunk armed man walking away from the police towards a group of other civilians. Yeah, almost the same scenario.I'd argue that shooting someone in the legs that is walking away from the police towards other civilians is a MORE reckless than shooting a charging suspect in the chest.

http://www.vice.com/en_dk/read/swedish-police-shooting-a-man-to-the-ground

Dude, I know you are American, but do try to understand a little bit more about geography.Denmark and Sweden are not the same, so just because Swedish police had a sword wielding drunkard, doesn't make it the cases I have spoken about.

I just figured you got confused since there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence that I can find that what you claimed actually happened in Denmark.

 

[msommer]

I didn't see the knife either, but the cops told him to drop it, and others around him pleaded with him to drop it too. If he had the knife and came at the cops then there is an argument to be made. Has to be a non-lethal way to bring a guy guilty of robbing two sodas down.

In many other countries there are.Talk down, pepper spray, shoot in leg.

And these are not academic examples. All have happened in Denmark within the last seven years or so. IIRC the guy who was shot in the legs (I think it was twice) was wielding a katana (the long samurai sword).

So in one case we have an armed assailant cursing at police, telling them to kill him and charging them. In the other case we have a drunk armed man walking away from the police towards a group of other civilians. Yeah, almost the same scenario.I'd argue that shooting someone in the legs that is walking away from the police towards other civilians is a MORE reckless than shooting a charging suspect in the chest.

http://www.vice.com/en_dk/read/swedish-police-shooting-a-man-to-the-ground

Dude, I know you are American, but do try to understand a little bit more about geography.Denmark and Sweden are not the same, so just because Swedish police had a sword wielding drunkard, doesn't make it the cases I have spoken about.

I just figured you got confused since there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence that I can find that what you claimed actually happened in Denmark.

How's your Danish?

http://www.bt.dk/krimi/skudt-af-politiet-nu-er-han-sigtet-for-drabsforsoeg

 

[msommer]

Different case:

http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/article4605104.ece

Not mentioned in this article but the police talked him down

 

[GroveDiesel]

I didn't see the knife either, but the cops told him to drop it, and others around him pleaded with him to drop it too. If he had the knife and came at the cops then there is an argument to be made. Has to be a non-lethal way to bring a guy guilty of robbing two sodas down.

In many other countries there are.Talk down, pepper spray, shoot in leg.

And these are not academic examples. All have happened in Denmark within the last seven years or so. IIRC the guy who was shot in the legs (I think it was twice) was wielding a katana (the long samurai sword).

So in one case we have an armed assailant cursing at police, telling them to kill him and charging them. In the other case we have a drunk armed man walking away from the police towards a group of other civilians. Yeah, almost the same scenario.I'd argue that shooting someone in the legs that is walking away from the police towards other civilians is a MORE reckless than shooting a charging suspect in the chest.http://www.vice.com/en_dk/read/swedish-police-shooting-a-man-to-the-ground

Dude, I know you are American, but do try to understand a little bit more about geography.Denmark and Sweden are not the same, so just because Swedish police had a sword wielding drunkard, doesn't make it the cases I have spoken about.

I just figured you got confused since there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence that I can find that what you claimed actually happened in Denmark.

How's your Danish?http://www.bt.dk/krimi/skudt-af-politiet-nu-er-han-sigtet-for-drabsforsoeg

Sounds like he was shot a bit higher than the legs to me. It also doesn't indicate the distance he was from the officers.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I would agree that a tazer is more logical, but it was a man with a weapon, and I do think shooting is justified...but I don't understand why you've got to unload a clip into the guy. I feel like in a situation with a knife, the first shot should be to the leg or to wound. Just turning the guy into a sieve seems like overkill.

Is there some police code that basically states that when you make the decision to shoot, you should shoot to kill?

Pretty much this. Using a firearm is using deadly force. You only use deadly force when necessary to counter potentially deadly force. In that situation there's no reason to "go for the leg," which is non-sense to anyone who has ever trained with a firearm. This isn't the movies, you don't aim to "clip" someone and try not to shoot them too much. If you've made the decision that using a firearm is necessary, you aim center mass.

 

[msommer]

I didn't see the knife either, but the cops told him to drop it, and others around him pleaded with him to drop it too. If he had the knife and came at the cops then there is an argument to be made. Has to be a non-lethal way to bring a guy guilty of robbing two sodas down.

In many other countries there are.Talk down, pepper spray, shoot in leg.

And these are not academic examples. All have happened in Denmark within the last seven years or so. IIRC the guy who was shot in the legs (I think it was twice) was wielding a katana (the long samurai sword).

So in one case we have an armed assailant cursing at police, telling them to kill him and charging them. In the other case we have a drunk armed man walking away from the police towards a group of other civilians. Yeah, almost the same scenario.I'd argue that shooting someone in the legs that is walking away from the police towards other civilians is a MORE reckless than shooting a charging suspect in the chest.http://www.vice.com/en_dk/read/swedish-police-shooting-a-man-to-the-ground

Dude, I know you are American, but do try to understand a little bit more about geography.Denmark and Sweden are not the same, so just because Swedish police had a sword wielding drunkard, doesn't make it the cases I have spoken about.

I just figured you got confused since there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence that I can find that what you claimed actually happened in Denmark.

How's your Danish?http://www.bt.dk/krimi/skudt-af-politiet-nu-er-han-sigtet-for-drabsforsoeg

Sounds like he was shot a bit higher than the legs to me. It also doesn't indicate the distance he was from the officers.

Hip

 

[Guest]

Maybe it's already been said, but I'm pretty sure tasers aren't to be used on someone with a weapon. You want to put voltage through someone holding a knife and then try to subdue them? What about someone with a gun?

Super Glue Cannon