STAR WARS: EP 7 ***SPOILER ZONE*** - Go here if you've seen it (2 Viewers)

[netnalp]

Was it me, or did Rey not really have any recognition in her facial expression when she met Luke?

I think it would have been easier for her to recognize her dad than the opposite since she likely changed much more than he did in those years apart (assuming they are son and daughter).

If they are son and daughter this lack of recognition might also lend more credence to the mind wipe idea.

I'm almost certain she's a Solo. Han makes too many recognitions of her skills and similarities to him. He also isn't the best dad in the world hence his not even bothering with his son while he fell to the dark side. So him forgetting about her for years is believable.

You also have to explain why they'd dump Rey on a sand pit of a planet but not Ben, because they're close enough in age that he couldn't have turned to the dark side before she was left on Jakku.

They could be close in age, could be 10 years apart. I can't tell.

 

[netnalp]

Was it me, or did Rey not really have any recognition in her facial expression when she met Luke?

I think it would have been easier for her to recognize her dad than the opposite since she likely changed much more than he did in those years apart (assuming they are son and daughter).

If they are son and daughter this lack of recognition might also lend more credence to the mind wipe idea.

I'm almost certain she's a Solo. Han makes too many recognitions of her skills and similarities to him. He also isn't the best dad in the world hence his not even bothering with his son while he fell to the dark side. So him forgetting about her for years is believable.

How did Leia react to her when she landed with Han? I can't remember.

She didn't land with Han. She was captured. She meets Leia when they hug after Han's death.

 

[packersfan]

Was it me, or did Rey not really have any recognition in her facial expression when she met Luke?

I think it would have been easier for her to recognize her dad than the opposite since she likely changed much more than he did in those years apart (assuming they are son and daughter).

If they are son and daughter this lack of recognition might also lend more credence to the mind wipe idea.

I'm almost certain she's a Solo. Han makes too many recognitions of her skills and similarities to him. He also isn't the best dad in the world hence his not even bothering with his son while he fell to the dark side. So him forgetting about her for years is believable.

You also have to explain why they'd dump Rey on a sand pit of a planet but not Ben, because they're close enough in age that he couldn't have turned to the dark side before she was left on Jakku.

They could be close in age, could be 10 years apart. I can't tell.

He looks around 30 which makes sense if Han and Leia started boinking after Jedi.

Rey looks early 20s which would also fit since Luke didn't have a girl when we last saw him but could've met someone a few years or so after Jedi.

 

[Jobber]

I can't wait to see these story lines develop. Especially Rey/Luke.

 

[Tony Jabroni]

I still say we need to forget the term Sith. They are the Knights of Ren, the Sith are gone and they don't follow the same rules.

Maybe but I am not sure of that. I just think Ren hasn't completed his training.

This. I think he goes ballistic in the future.

 

[flysack]

My theory on how Kylo was turned to the dark side: Snope sent him dark visions/ dreams (like Vader had before his turn). His visions were of his grandfather, Vader, espousing on Kylo's destiny to rule the universe and assert order as Vader failed to do. enough of that on an impressionable, likely unbalanced kid...

Why was he 'likely unbalanced'?

He seem well adjusted to you?

The point is how did he get that way with Han and Leia as parents - were they child abusers?

Han ran off, Leia needed to lead the rebels. Luke might not have been the best teacher being that his training was pretty unconventional.

My buddy thinks Ren went bad because Han was a deadbeat dad who wasn't there for him. He assumes he owed on child support too.

Kylo's dad was a smuggler and his mother was the general of a losing faction in an 30+ year intergalactic war. Generals of real life wars don't have much time with their kids. Pretty sure the kid was raised by C3PO before he was sent off for Jedi training. That is enough to #### with any kid.

If we're really lucky, they'll address Ben Solo's turn to the dark side in a trilogy of disappointing prequels.

We can guess what happened.

Ben Solo's story is that he is weak with the force. He feels terrible shame from this. In his head he is going "How can the grandson and son of two great force users be so weak with the force?" I imagine him getting trained by Luke in group sessions with other kids and Ben is at or near the bottom of the class. He has some skill but not a lot. Snoke shows up and promises Ben that he will become a great force user like Vader if he uses the dark side. Ben's shame and pride do him in. This is why he says "thank you" to Han just before killing him. Ben thinks that killing his own father will bring him closer to the dark side and much more powerful. Only, it doesn't work. Rey was still able to wield the force more strongly than Ren. She willed Luke's lightsaber to her. She focused and overcame him with the force.

Episode 8 will probably send Ren on a mission to somehow meet Vader himself in order to go even darker in the hopes of gaining power. Rumor has it Hayden Christiansen has been cast in episode 8 and now it makes sense really.

Anakin turned back to good before he died. He will not become a guide for Kylo Ren.

Odds are, he contacts Rey in a vision. I'm tempted to say he becomes a ghostly guide like Ben was for Luke, but they're clearly setting Luke up as the Ben character for Rey, which means, following the template, Kylo kills Luke sometime in Ep VIII, probably via Luke willingly sacrificing himself to become 'one with the Force,' and thus becoming Rey's spirit guide.

 

[packersfan]

I hope they don't go Full Obi-Wan for Luke. We've seen that before. I'd like to see Luke become something different and more powerful than we've seen from a Jedi before. That certainly was his story arc in the first three films (Vader was convinced he and Luke alone could rule the empire; that's how powerful Luke could become). Be nice to see it fully realized now.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Was it me, or did Rey not really have any recognition in her facial expression when she met Luke?

I think it would have been easier for her to recognize her dad than the opposite since she likely changed much more than he did in those years apart (assuming they are son and daughter).

If they are son and daughter this lack of recognition might also lend more credence to the mind wipe idea.

I'm almost certain she's a Solo. Han makes too many recognitions of her skills and similarities to him. He also isn't the best dad in the world hence his not even bothering with his son while he fell to the dark side. So him forgetting about her for years is believable.

You also have to explain why they'd dump Rey on a sand pit of a planet but not Ben, because they're close enough in age that he couldn't have turned to the dark side before she was left on Jakku.

They could be close in age, could be 10 years apart. I can't tell.

He looks around 30 which makes sense if Han and Leia started boinking after Jedi.Rey looks early 20s which would also fit since Luke didn't have a girl when we last saw him but could've met someone a few years or so after Jedi.

That sounds reasonable. That is the age of the actors they cast in the rolls but that does not always match.

We probably won't find out for a while since it is typically non movie media (books, comics etc) are used to flesh out those type of details.

 

[flysack]

On 2nd viewing I liked Kylo Ren much better. Criticisms of him as juvenile are ridiculous. He's a great bad guy. Quite conflicted but awesome. I think he is going to become absolutely insane and fearsome in the next two movies.

My other complaint was how everyone seemed to be able to handle a lightsaber pretty damn easily. I can understand Rey since she has the force but Finn? That was too much for me given the importance of this weapon in connection with the Jedi and the Force. He shouldn't be able to just pick it up and kick ### with it. .

I figure he's a stormtrooper and been trained at a young age so he's had training in all kinds of weapons. While not specifically with a light saber, the techniques of the other weapons apply. Same with figuring out the weapons on the tie fighter and Falcon. People wouldn't even bring those up if he just jumped in and knew how to use them. It's just that he's unsure that causes people to bash it.Same with Ren fixing things. She salvages parts, so she'd know what things do and the systems in their operation. Also people bashing it aren't realizing that she's living in a culture where these machines aren't as complex to them as they are to us. Compare what is common knowledge to us today compared to people 2,000 years ago. That's the kind of technological separation between us and that in Star Wars. The people in Star Wars are just more knowledgeable about tech than us. Look at how little kids are able to operate tech today before they can even read or write. Our tech is like stone or bronze age in comparison to Star Wars.

The Trooper fighting him with the weapon that could deflect the saber was standing toe to toe with him showing they have been trained in close combat..

Yeah but a lightsaber is a special weapon. An almost magical one. Maybe I'm being stubborn and silly about it but it just seems that only someone with the Force should be able to handle it with ease. Now maybe that's something we'll find out about Finn later and if so then it would make sense. I do think his parentage will come to play. The line about being ripped from a family "I'll never know" seemed to be planted for a reason.

It is a sword. A sword made of light but still a sword.

This. He was fighting with it as a weapon, a sword, plain and simple.

Now if he would have been deflecting blasters with it, that would be using the Force to heighten his perceptions and guide his technique.

Luke: "The Force controls your actions?"

Ben: "Partially."

 

[netnalp]

Great movie. Here's a couple of my thought to address the plot holes that some have brought up.

I believe Fin has the force running through him as well which would explain his ability to use the guns in the Millenium Falcon and have skills in he light saber without any training we know of. Think about it of the 10s of thousands of storm troopers why was It Fin who has a conscious. I'm telling you this guy is touched with the force...perhaps a descendant of Samuel L Jackson's Jedi character (sorry don't remember his name)

I believe Rey is Solo and Leia's daughter so she has Skywalker blood in her. My theory is Han knocked Leia up right at the end of their marriage before he bailed and likely didn't even know the existence of Rey. Leia likely shipped her off for her protection, like they did Kylo, but just at a much younger age.

Anyway great movie probably 3rd on my list behind Empire and New Hope.

It's just a different form of blaster. It doesn't take special training. In fact the gun turrets are mass produced so they'd be designed to be easily useable. And a light saber is just a sword. Using it as a sword does not require any force ability. Now if he'd blocked a blaster shot or two, then there's some evidence for what you're claiming.Basic weapons training given to a storm trooper explains all this. Of course we're all used to storm troopers being unable to hit the broad side of the barn, so a trooper that can actually hit things is odd.

Eta: As for Rey being Han and Leia's kid, I'd be pretty damn odd for Leia to state regret over sending Ben away and nothing over sending her daughter away

Maybe Han took off. Leia maybe hasn't told him that they'd had a daughter. It would be odd to be talking about the son then blurt out, "BTW, we had a daughter I sent away."

 

[flysack]

I hope they don't go Full Obi-Wan for Luke. We've seen that before. I'd like to see Luke become something different and more powerful than we've seen from a Jedi before. That certainly was his story arc in the first three films (Vader was convinced he and Luke alone could rule the empire; that's how powerful Luke could become). Be nice to see it fully realized now.

Oh I agree. I hoping they deviant from the template.

If I have one early critique of The Force Awakens, it's that it didn't deviate from the template enough.

 

[Scoresman]

Here's hoping we eventually get a Rey slave bikini scene as a throwback to Leia in VI. Or maybe a yoga pants scene.

 

[flysack]

One thing I'm super duper happy about -

The young actors weren't all effing sparkly and Disney-coifed. The men weren't androgynous. The women weren't twats.

Finn, Rey, and Po were great characters.

 

[netnalp]

Kylo ren had potential but even with injury, no way Finn should have ever gotten a hit on him. And Rey never trained in her life. She wins?

People had some interesting speculation earlier in the thread that she was trained by Luke and then had her mind wiped and stashed on a out of the way planet, after Luke lost Ben to the dark side.

I don't know if it is true but it would match some of the "awakening" she had which fits in the title.

They will come back to this somehow I bet.

So maybe Luke suppressed her memories and powers out of fear that she'd go dark side too?

That makes sense. Also if Rey is Luke's daughter than something happened to Mom and it probably was something bad which would additionally explain why Luke split and appears rather beaten down when we see him. The guilt over his nephew turning to the Dark Side, potentially losing his daughter and possibly having lost his wife could all end up being too much for him to deal with.

I'd expect that Kylo kills Luke's wife if Rey is Luke's daughter.

 

[flysack]

Stupid Question:

It was Corsucont(sp) they blew up, right?

They only identify the planet as "the seat of the Republic."

 

[packersfan]

One thing I'm super duper happy about -

The young actors weren't all effing sparkly and Disney-coifed. The men weren't androgynous. The women weren't twats.

Finn, Rey, and Po were great characters.

Yup. Like the first film they hit the right notes with the new lead characters. Great casting.

 

[netnalp]

Kylo ren had potential but even with injury, no way Finn should have ever gotten a hit on him. And Rey never trained in her life. She wins?

People had some interesting speculation earlier in the thread that she was trained by Luke and then had her mind wiped and stashed on a out of the way planet, after Luke lost Ben to the dark side.

I don't know if it is true but it would match some of the "awakening" she had which fits in the title.

They will come back to this somehow I bet.

So maybe Luke suppressed her memories and powers out of fear that she'd go dark side too?

This is exactly what I think will be the case. She was already trained but Luke has blocked her memory of it.

Reminds me of the Fantastic Four's Reed and Sue Richards doing that to their son.

 

[netnalp]

My theory on how Kylo was turned to the dark side: Snope sent him dark visions/ dreams (like Vader had before his turn). His visions were of his grandfather, Vader, espousing on Kylo's destiny to rule the universe and assert order as Vader failed to do. enough of that on an impressionable, likely unbalanced kid...

Why was he 'likely unbalanced'?

He seem well adjusted to you?

The point is how did he get that way with Han and Leia as parents - were they child abusers?

Han ran off, Leia needed to lead the rebels. Luke might not have been the best teacher being that his training was pretty unconventional.

My buddy thinks Ren went bad because Han was a deadbeat dad who wasn't there for him. He assumes he owed on child support too.

Kylo's dad was a smuggler and his mother was the general of a losing faction in an 30+ year intergalactic war. Generals of real life wars don't have much time with their kids. Pretty sure the kid was raised by C3PO before he was sent off for Jedi training. That is enough to #### with any kid.

If we're really lucky, they'll address Ben Solo's turn to the dark side in a trilogy of disappointing prequels.

We can guess what happened.

Ben Solo's story is that he is weak with the force. He feels terrible shame from this. In his head he is going "How can the grandson and son of two great force users be so weak with the force?" I imagine him getting trained by Luke in group sessions with other kids and Ben is at or near the bottom of the class. He has some skill but not a lot. Snoke shows up and promises Ben that he will become a great force user like Vader if he uses the dark side. Ben's shame and pride do him in. This is why he says "thank you" to Han just before killing him. Ben thinks that killing his own father will bring him closer to the dark side and much more powerful. Only, it doesn't work. Rey was still able to wield the force more strongly than Ren. She willed Luke's lightsaber to her. She focused and overcame him with the force.

Episode 8 will probably send Ren on a mission to somehow meet Vader himself in order to go even darker in the hopes of gaining power. Rumor has it Hayden Christiansen has been cast in episode 8 and now it makes sense really.

Could be that he was more adept at tapping into the emotions that connect with the dark side and less so powerful with the light side.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Stupid Question:

It was Corsucont(sp) they blew up, right?

They only identify the planet as "the seat of the Republic."

That is how I took it as well.Did they name the planet Leia was on? Or Luke for that matter?

 

[Pipes]

On 2nd viewing I liked Kylo Ren much better. Criticisms of him as juvenile are ridiculous. He's a great bad guy. Quite conflicted but awesome. I think he is going to become absolutely insane and fearsome in the next two movies.

My other complaint was how everyone seemed to be able to handle a lightsaber pretty damn easily. I can understand Rey since she has the force but Finn? That was too much for me given the importance of this weapon in connection with the Jedi and the Force. He shouldn't be able to just pick it up and kick ### with it. .

I figure he's a stormtrooper and been trained at a young age so he's had training in all kinds of weapons. While not specifically with a light saber, the techniques of the other weapons apply. Same with figuring out the weapons on the tie fighter and Falcon. People wouldn't even bring those up if he just jumped in and knew how to use them. It's just that he's unsure that causes people to bash it.Same with Ren fixing things. She salvages parts, so she'd know what things do and the systems in their operation. Also people bashing it aren't realizing that she's living in a culture where these machines aren't as complex to them as they are to us. Compare what is common knowledge to us today compared to people 2,000 years ago. That's the kind of technological separation between us and that in Star Wars. The people in Star Wars are just more knowledgeable about tech than us. Look at how little kids are able to operate tech today before they can even read or write. Our tech is like stone or bronze age in comparison to Star Wars.

The Trooper fighting him with the weapon that could deflect the saber was standing toe to toe with him showing they have been trained in close combat..

Yeah but a lightsaber is a special weapon. An almost magical one. Maybe I'm being stubborn and silly about it but it just seems that only someone with the Force should be able to handle it with ease. Now maybe that's something we'll find out about Finn later and if so then it would make sense. I do think his parentage will come to play. The line about being ripped from a family "I'll never know" seemed to be planted for a reason.

It is a sword. A sword made of light but still a sword.

This. He was fighting with it as a weapon, a sword, plain and simple.

Now if he would have been deflecting blasters with it, that would be using the Force to heighten his perceptions and guide his technique.

Luke: "The Force controls your actions?"

Ben: "Partially."

So you're fine with a storm trooper picking up a light saber for the first time deflecting a number of attack attempts from someone with Kylo's ability? That's crazy if someone like you or me picked up a sword for the first time and went up against a skilled swordsman we'd be diced up in seconds. There is something special about this Fin character.

 

[NewlyRetired]

The final numbers are in for Thursday night and Ep 8 did an astounding $57m crushing the previous Thursday night preview record of $43.5m for Harry Potter 7 part 2.

The $57 million is also the highest all day Thursday total ever, interestingly beating it own brother Revenge of the Sith who previously held the all day Thursday record at $50m.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Keep thinking about the gripes of it being too derivative, and knowing the creative team, were we really expecting something brand new and original?? THIS is what JJ Abrams does in the theater for better or worse. Take a franchise that has gone off the rails a tad and lost some fan base. Make a movie a lot like the original while adding humor and make it look awesome on the big screen. It is exactly like what he did in the Star Trek movie, although that felt more like a Star Wars movie so I think he was better suited to make this movie. He did a similar thing in MI 3, and basically just took the best parts of Spielberg movies that we love and made Super 8. I think he succeeded with high marks for this movie.

NOW we have the set up, and need back story, so enter a director who has has some success with a bigger budget movie (Looper), but really came up from the independent movie scene with Brick. Put him in charge of writing the next two and go more for the story that we are interested in - ie Rey's heritage, what happened with Luke, etc.. (hopefully). Question is for me - will the next couple get the story right and take us where we hope it will, but fall short of how good this one looked and miss the magic in that regard?

 

[NewlyRetired]

On 2nd viewing I liked Kylo Ren much better. Criticisms of him as juvenile are ridiculous. He's a great bad guy. Quite conflicted but awesome. I think he is going to become absolutely insane and fearsome in the next two movies.

My other complaint was how everyone seemed to be able to handle a lightsaber pretty damn easily. I can understand Rey since she has the force but Finn? That was too much for me given the importance of this weapon in connection with the Jedi and the Force. He shouldn't be able to just pick it up and kick ### with it. .

I figure he's a stormtrooper and been trained at a young age so he's had training in all kinds of weapons. While not specifically with a light saber, the techniques of the other weapons apply. Same with figuring out the weapons on the tie fighter and Falcon. People wouldn't even bring those up if he just jumped in and knew how to use them. It's just that he's unsure that causes people to bash it.Same with Ren fixing things. She salvages parts, so she'd know what things do and the systems in their operation. Also people bashing it aren't realizing that she's living in a culture where these machines aren't as complex to them as they are to us. Compare what is common knowledge to us today compared to people 2,000 years ago. That's the kind of technological separation between us and that in Star Wars. The people in Star Wars are just more knowledgeable about tech than us. Look at how little kids are able to operate tech today before they can even read or write. Our tech is like stone or bronze age in comparison to Star Wars.

The Trooper fighting him with the weapon that could deflect the saber was standing toe to toe with him showing they have been trained in close combat..

Yeah but a lightsaber is a special weapon. An almost magical one. Maybe I'm being stubborn and silly about it but it just seems that only someone with the Force should be able to handle it with ease. Now maybe that's something we'll find out about Finn later and if so then it would make sense. I do think his parentage will come to play. The line about being ripped from a family "I'll never know" seemed to be planted for a reason.

It is a sword. A sword made of light but still a sword.

This. He was fighting with it as a weapon, a sword, plain and simple.

Now if he would have been deflecting blasters with it, that would be using the Force to heighten his perceptions and guide his technique.

Luke: "The Force controls your actions?"

Ben: "Partially."

So you're fine with a storm trooper picking up a light saber for the first time deflecting a number of attack attempts from someone with Kylo's ability? That's crazy if someone like you or me picked up a sword for the first time and went up against a skilled swordsman we'd be diced up in seconds. There is something special about this Fin character.

While I agree that there is more to find out about Fin, I don't think it is too outrageous to believe they were trained with numerous types of weapons as the soldiers of the first order including swords.

 

[Sabertooth]

So Captian Phasma has to go down as basically the worst military leader of all time right? Puts Finn back on active duty immediately after he freaks out on his first mission, letting him escape/rescue a top rebel... I mean resistance officer. Then it takes about 10 seconds of coercion to get her to drop the shields on the First Order's gigantic death weapon.

Who the heck was captain Phasma? The silver storm trooper?

 

[NewlyRetired]

They are obviously no longer using clones (at least exclusively) but did Kylo say something about clones once in the movie? I did not catch the exact connotation....

 

[packersfan]

So Captian Phasma has to go down as basically the worst military leader of all time right? Puts Finn back on active duty immediately after he freaks out on his first mission, letting him escape/rescue a top rebel... I mean resistance officer. Then it takes about 10 seconds of coercion to get her to drop the shields on the First Order's gigantic death weapon.

Who the heck was captain Phasma? The silver storm trooper?

Brienne of Tarth

 

[NewlyRetired]

So Captian Phasma has to go down as basically the worst military leader of all time right? Puts Finn back on active duty immediately after he freaks out on his first mission, letting him escape/rescue a top rebel... I mean resistance officer. Then it takes about 10 seconds of coercion to get her to drop the shields on the First Order's gigantic death weapon.

Who the heck was captain Phasma? The silver storm trooper?

The female storm trooper who talks to Fin about taking off his helmet.

 

[Sabertooth]

Gotcha. Ok. Yeah, she didn't make an impression.

 

[Insein]

So Captian Phasma has to go down as basically the worst military leader of all time right? Puts Finn back on active duty immediately after he freaks out on his first mission, letting him escape/rescue a top rebel... I mean resistance officer. Then it takes about 10 seconds of coercion to get her to drop the shields on the First Order's gigantic death weapon.

Who the heck was captain Phasma? The silver storm trooper?

Yes. She was built up as this bad ### before the movie and she's probably the most incompetent storm trooper of all time. That's saying a lot.

 

[netnalp]

I still say we need to forget the term Sith. They are the Knights of Ren, the Sith are gone and they don't follow the same rules.

Maybe but I am not sure of that. I just think Ren hasn't completed his training.

Knights of Ren an indication that the bad guys are going away from the rule of only 2 Sith at a time?

 

[Sabertooth]

So Captian Phasma has to go down as basically the worst military leader of all time right? Puts Finn back on active duty immediately after he freaks out on his first mission, letting him escape/rescue a top rebel... I mean resistance officer. Then it takes about 10 seconds of coercion to get her to drop the shields on the First Order's gigantic death weapon.

Who the heck was captain Phasma? The silver storm trooper?

Yes. She was built up as this bad ### before the movie and she's probably the most incompetent storm trooper of all time. That's saying a lot.

Ok. Yeah, the Troopers almost seem like a parody sometimes. I guess to be the best, you'd technically have to be the worst.

 

[GoFishTN]

Thought it was OK until Han's death. Really picked up after that.

Maybe it's been discussed, but my biggest gripe is Chewy walking right past Leia after they return.

 

[maxwelledison]

On 2nd viewing I liked Kylo Ren much better. Criticisms of him as juvenile are ridiculous. He's a great bad guy. Quite conflicted but awesome. I think he is going to become absolutely insane and fearsome in the next two movies.

My other complaint was how everyone seemed to be able to handle a lightsaber pretty damn easily. I can understand Rey since she has the force but Finn? That was too much for me given the importance of this weapon in connection with the Jedi and the Force. He shouldn't be able to just pick it up and kick ### with it. .

I figure he's a stormtrooper and been trained at a young age so he's had training in all kinds of weapons. While not specifically with a light saber, the techniques of the other weapons apply. Same with figuring out the weapons on the tie fighter and Falcon. People wouldn't even bring those up if he just jumped in and knew how to use them. It's just that he's unsure that causes people to bash it.Same with Ren fixing things. She salvages parts, so she'd know what things do and the systems in their operation. Also people bashing it aren't realizing that she's living in a culture where these machines aren't as complex to them as they are to us. Compare what is common knowledge to us today compared to people 2,000 years ago. That's the kind of technological separation between us and that in Star Wars. The people in Star Wars are just more knowledgeable about tech than us. Look at how little kids are able to operate tech today before they can even read or write. Our tech is like stone or bronze age in comparison to Star Wars.

The Trooper fighting him with the weapon that could deflect the saber was standing toe to toe with him showing they have been trained in close combat..

And with functionally similar weapons.

 

[flysack]

On 2nd viewing I liked Kylo Ren much better. Criticisms of him as juvenile are ridiculous. He's a great bad guy. Quite conflicted but awesome. I think he is going to become absolutely insane and fearsome in the next two movies.

My other complaint was how everyone seemed to be able to handle a lightsaber pretty damn easily. I can understand Rey since she has the force but Finn? That was too much for me given the importance of this weapon in connection with the Jedi and the Force. He shouldn't be able to just pick it up and kick ### with it. .

I figure he's a stormtrooper and been trained at a young age so he's had training in all kinds of weapons. While not specifically with a light saber, the techniques of the other weapons apply. Same with figuring out the weapons on the tie fighter and Falcon. People wouldn't even bring those up if he just jumped in and knew how to use them. It's just that he's unsure that causes people to bash it.Same with Ren fixing things. She salvages parts, so she'd know what things do and the systems in their operation. Also people bashing it aren't realizing that she's living in a culture where these machines aren't as complex to them as they are to us. Compare what is common knowledge to us today compared to people 2,000 years ago. That's the kind of technological separation between us and that in Star Wars. The people in Star Wars are just more knowledgeable about tech than us. Look at how little kids are able to operate tech today before they can even read or write. Our tech is like stone or bronze age in comparison to Star Wars.

The Trooper fighting him with the weapon that could deflect the saber was standing toe to toe with him showing they have been trained in close combat..

Yeah but a lightsaber is a special weapon. An almost magical one. Maybe I'm being stubborn and silly about it but it just seems that only someone with the Force should be able to handle it with ease. Now maybe that's something we'll find out about Finn later and if so then it would make sense. I do think his parentage will come to play. The line about being ripped from a family "I'll never know" seemed to be planted for a reason.

It is a sword. A sword made of light but still a sword.

This. He was fighting with it as a weapon, a sword, plain and simple.

Now if he would have been deflecting blasters with it, that would be using the Force to heighten his perceptions and guide his technique.

Luke: "The Force controls your actions?"

Ben: "Partially."

So you're fine with a storm trooper picking up a light saber for the first time deflecting a number of attack attempts from someone with Kylo's ability? That's crazy if someone like you or me picked up a sword for the first time and went up against a skilled swordsman we'd be diced up in seconds. There is something special about this Fin character.

I can't speak for you, but I have zero military training in hand-to-hand weapons.

Also, I think Kylo isn't the best swordsman around. His strengths lie elsewhere, in telekinesis and telepathy.

Even Vader couldn't use the force to read people's minds. At best, he could sense people's presence.

 

[Sabertooth]

Thought it was OK until Han's death. Really picked up after that.

Maybe it's been discussed, but my biggest gripe is Chewy walking right past Leia after they return.

Didn't even notice it. But yeah, that's weak. Dogs are nothing if not loyal.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

One thing I'm super duper happy about -

The young actors weren't all effing sparkly and Disney-coifed. The men weren't androgynous. The women weren't twats.

Finn, Rey, and Po were great characters.

I liked the parts that focused on the new characters more than the original cast.

 

[Sabertooth]

I expected Kylo to be more bad ### too. Especially once he stopped that moving laser. Cool effect either way. Just bam! #### you and your little "lasers."

 

[flysack]

One thing I'm super duper happy about -

The young actors weren't all effing sparkly and Disney-coifed. The men weren't androgynous. The women weren't twats.

Finn, Rey, and Po were great characters.

I liked the parts that focused on the new characters more than the original cast.

Harrison Ford was great though.

 

[Sabertooth]

They had a couple nice shots of Ren's backside as well, which was nice.

 

[netnalp]

Great that it was based on action and less politics but at times I felt lost.

Can you explain what you mean here? I get most of the complaints about the story not being new, about DeathStar 3.0, Rey being powerful quickly, etc. but I'm not sure what you mean by being lost - the story seemed to be right there in front you. Nothing confusing or convoluted which is another reason to like it IMO. They kept it simple and executed it very, very well.

I guess that was my problem. It was simple to the point that I was like, there's more to this right? It's not just rebels, empire, death Star, boom again right?

Yes. There are 3 groups. The Resistance, Senate and New Order. Resistance is the former Rebels. Senate is the political powers duped by the Sith and was part of The Empire. New Order appears to be the military forces that were part of The Empire, though minus the clones and robots.

Looks like the Resistance and the Senate might be allied, either way they are both enemies of the New Order.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

They had a couple nice shots of Ren's backside as well, which was nice.

Yeah, he's dreamy

 

[Pipes]

They had a couple nice shots of Ren's backside as well, which was nice.

Yeah, he's dreamy

Lol

 

[KarmaPolice]

Thought it was OK until Han's death. Really picked up after that.

Maybe it's been discussed, but my biggest gripe is Chewy walking right past Leia after they return.

Well, she did basically send him to get their son.

 

[netnalp]

I hope they don't go Full Obi-Wan for Luke. We've seen that before. I'd like to see Luke become something different and more powerful than we've seen from a Jedi before. That certainly was his story arc in the first three films (Vader was convinced he and Luke alone could rule the empire; that's how powerful Luke could become). Be nice to see it fully realized now.

Oh I agree. I hoping they deviant from the template.

If I have one early critique of The Force Awakens, it's that it didn't deviate from the template enough.

Maybe they go the route where she helps him as much as he helps her. Where Luke is the broken master, either giving up on the force or at risk of going over to the dark side. Rey convinces him that there is still hope and/or that he can't just sit on the sidelines, that Luke's part in this isn't over or that he can still fix things even though he fears he is just making it worse.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Great that it was based on action and less politics but at times I felt lost.

Can you explain what you mean here? I get most of the complaints about the story not being new, about DeathStar 3.0, Rey being powerful quickly, etc. but I'm not sure what you mean by being lost - the story seemed to be right there in front you. Nothing confusing or convoluted which is another reason to like it IMO. They kept it simple and executed it very, very well.

I guess that was my problem. It was simple to the point that I was like, there's more to this right? It's not just rebels, empire, death Star, boom again right?

Yes. There are 3 groups. The Resistance, Senate and New Order. Resistance is the former Rebels. Senate is the political powers duped by the Sith and was part of The Empire. New Order appears to be the military forces that were part of The Empire, though minus the clones and robots. Looks like the Resistance and the Senate might be allied, either way they are both enemies of the New Order.

They blew up Coruscant in this movie so there may be no senate left.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Thought it was OK until Han's death. Really picked up after that.

Maybe it's been discussed, but my biggest gripe is Chewy walking right past Leia after they return.

Well, she did basically send him to get their son.

Maybe he could not stomach facing her?

 

[Sabertooth]

Damn. Rey not Ren. Whatever they both had nice asses though.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Damn. Rey not Ren. Whatever they both had nice asses though.

In their prime, how do we rate in comparison Fisher, Portman and Ridley?

 

[netnalp]

On 2nd viewing I liked Kylo Ren much better. Criticisms of him as juvenile are ridiculous. He's a great bad guy. Quite conflicted but awesome. I think he is going to become absolutely insane and fearsome in the next two movies.

My other complaint was how everyone seemed to be able to handle a lightsaber pretty damn easily. I can understand Rey since she has the force but Finn? That was too much for me given the importance of this weapon in connection with the Jedi and the Force. He shouldn't be able to just pick it up and kick ### with it. .

I figure he's a stormtrooper and been trained at a young age so he's had training in all kinds of weapons. While not specifically with a light saber, the techniques of the other weapons apply. Same with figuring out the weapons on the tie fighter and Falcon. People wouldn't even bring those up if he just jumped in and knew how to use them. It's just that he's unsure that causes people to bash it.Same with Ren fixing things. She salvages parts, so she'd know what things do and the systems in their operation. Also people bashing it aren't realizing that she's living in a culture where these machines aren't as complex to them as they are to us. Compare what is common knowledge to us today compared to people 2,000 years ago. That's the kind of technological separation between us and that in Star Wars. The people in Star Wars are just more knowledgeable about tech than us. Look at how little kids are able to operate tech today before they can even read or write. Our tech is like stone or bronze age in comparison to Star Wars.

The Trooper fighting him with the weapon that could deflect the saber was standing toe to toe with him showing they have been trained in close combat..

Yeah but a lightsaber is a special weapon. An almost magical one. Maybe I'm being stubborn and silly about it but it just seems that only someone with the Force should be able to handle it with ease. Now maybe that's something we'll find out about Finn later and if so then it would make sense. I do think his parentage will come to play. The line about being ripped from a family "I'll never know" seemed to be planted for a reason.

It is a sword. A sword made of light but still a sword.

This. He was fighting with it as a weapon, a sword, plain and simple.

Now if he would have been deflecting blasters with it, that would be using the Force to heighten his perceptions and guide his technique.

Luke: "The Force controls your actions?"

Ben: "Partially."

So you're fine with a storm trooper picking up a light saber for the first time deflecting a number of attack attempts from someone with Kylo's ability? That's crazy if someone like you or me picked up a sword for the first time and went up against a skilled swordsman we'd be diced up in seconds. There is something special about this Fin character.

I can't speak for you, but I have zero military training in hand-to-hand weapons.

Also, I think Kylo isn't the best swordsman around. His strengths lie elsewhere, in telekinesis and telepathy.

Even Vader couldn't use the force to read people's minds. At best, he could sense people's presence.

I get then sense that Kylo either didn't get enough training or wasn't too interested in physical aspects and is more adept/puts more value in the powers the force can give.

 

[dparker713]

Damn. Rey not Ren. Whatever they both had nice asses though.

In their prime, how do we rate in comparison Fisher, Portman and Ridley?

Portman > Ridley >>> Fisher