Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Star Wars The Last Jedi Episode 8 thread: this thread sucks, you should avoid it even after you've seen the movie (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Capella
- Start date
Scoresman
Footballguy
Star Wars nerds in general are very jaded after years of being crapped on by George Lucas. Combine this with the fact that part of the definition of a nerd is that they get way too nitpicky/obsessive with stuff and that's why you have a low user rating. To normal people, this was a good-great movie with some minor flaws.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Scoresman
Footballguy
lol, i meant that in the "non-nerd" sense. Poor choice of words.at "normal people"
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
This speaks exactly to my point. If anyone is using an unbiased eye, they would readily admit that Return of the Jedi was full of garbage aimed at nothing more than selling young kids toys.
It cracks me up that people complain about the two minutes of screen time the Porgs got and then follow it up with how great Jedi was when the Ewoks dominated and ruined a significant portion of the movie.
Insein
Footballguy
Everything to do with the Ewoks and the forest moon assault yes. But jabbas palace, the space battles and the final showdown building for 3 films between Luke and Vader were friggin awesome.
As cool as some of the scenes in TLJ were, there was little emotional attachment to them. Who cares if Snoke is dead. Whoa Rey and Kylo fighting together, that's cool in a Tarantino fight scene kind of way. Hyperspace crash, that was awesome. Good thing no one I cared about was in it and none of it meant anything minutes later. They were scenes that looked cool but were all style over substance.
And who didn't cry when Romba stayed to mourn Nantas death from an AT-St blast in RoTJ? There was more emotion in that ewok scene than all of TLJ.
Last edited by a moderator:
-OZ-
Footballguy
In that case, yeah I can see watching repeatedly. Just like we watch some movies on Netflix a few times.
We'll probably go to the dollar theater and watch it at home, so 3x total before it gets on Showtime, then a few times.
Yep. My 14yo said the same. I think he's right. "Nobodies" that turn out to be old man Ben Kenobi and Mon Mothma.
Funny, I loved the ewoks. My sons can't stand them.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I cared. When I think of incredibly cool moments in the series, that scene is going to be near the top.
Insein
Footballguy
Why? Is it because of the emotional attachment to it or just because it was unexpected? I raised an eyebrow I'll admit because it intrigued me but then it just cemented home, well that was pointless. He was a plot device for Kylo to get higher up.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I loved them when I was a kid (which was exactly Lucas's point) but when rewatching today with an unbiased eye, it is almost cringe worthy at points.
But I have no issues with anyone who enjoys them. This is what makes Star Wars great, many different people can enjoy many different things for many different reasons.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
People keep bringing up RotJ, and I think a lot of people hold that one the lowest of the first 3, maybe below Ep 3 and the newest ones. I guess I don't see a ton of even SW nerds claiming the originals were perfect or that some of the new ones weren't good.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I loved Snoke. (I should admit that I am a big Serkis fan boy which may be coloring my view).
I thought he was fantastic in this movie. I actually hated that he was killed off.
I found him significantly more impressive and interesting after 2 movies than the Emperor after the first two, who of which no one really had any feeling for until Jedi and even then he gave you nothing more to "care" about than Snoke does IMO. Vader is the one who carries that emotion.
Using your own words, the Emperor was nothing more than a plot device to redeem Anakin.
Last edited by a moderator:
Scoresman
Footballguy
Because of the "holy ####" feeling of it all. There's nothing wrong with Snoke being a plot device to prop up Kylo. We didn't need any background on Snoke other than he's this mysterious badass who propped Kylo into being an even greater badass by killing him.
In fact, it's a great new direction for the series to take rather than having the all powerful Sith lord make it through all three movies.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Capella
Footballguy
every scene in every movie is a plot device.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
There have been a ton of people in this thread who consider the original trilogy untouchable and only barely will consider Rogue One as worthy of them.
Like you, I consider 6 well below the other two and don't think the trilogy should be all lumped together as an example of how the movie should be made today.
I am absolutely convinced if Ryan Johnson had just given us 1/3 of the movie where the Porg's dominated, many people would be screaming bloody murder even if the other 2/3rds were very good.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Yea I don't see Serkis when I view his characters. He's a great actor that's not the point. The point is, who is this guy? Why do I care? Oh he's dead now. Guess I don't need to worry.
And the emperor in RoTJ had a 1000x more screen presence and significance than Snoke. The slow build up of finally seeing the evil head of the Empire. So evil that even Vader bows down to him unconditionally. His taunting of Luke in the thrown room, that feeling of anger was swelling through the audience as well as look. We all wanted to strike him down. Then we get to see how helpless Luke is to this guy. Luke bested the big bad in Vader and he can't touch the emperor. Palpatine is so confident in his dominance that we see no way out till they show Vader thinking about it. Struggling within his mind to fight off decades of sith conditioning and do the one thing his son and the Galaxy needs! In one climactic decision that costs Vader his life, he saves the day! That scene was epic!
Snoke shows off to Rey. Smacks her on the head like a little girl. Then gets killed by his apprenctice (who we never see show any real allegience or devotion to Snoke). Dead. So ok that happened.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Wrong. I don't know much about the EU but a ton of background on the original characters was passed around when those first 3 movies came out.
I bet you know more about Luke's relationship with Biggs than you learned in ANH for example.
Capella
Footballguy
I don't even know who biggs is.
This movie is going to make a billion and a half. How many of those people have read the EU? Less than 1%?
Last edited by a moderator:
GregR
Footballguy
Wow, you guys advanced this thread 3 pages in the time it took to see it and drive home.
Enjoyed it. Lots of decent plot turns. I stayed away from reviews and commentary about it so I could just go there with nothing in mind but getting to watch an action movie with plenty of pew-pew and light saber noises.
Though I do wish someone would teach movie directors that in space things don't fall or follow ballistics arcs like we're used to happening on a planet.
Enjoyed it. Lots of decent plot turns. I stayed away from reviews and commentary about it so I could just go there with nothing in mind but getting to watch an action movie with plenty of pew-pew and light saber noises.
Though I do wish someone would teach movie directors that in space things don't fall or follow ballistics arcs like we're used to happening on a planet.
Last edited by a moderator:
Scoresman
Footballguy
Why do they need to repeat the original trilogy plotline of having a badass ancient sith lord be behind everything? Maybe Kylo is that baddass now that he killed off Snoke. They've really set him up to be a ******* in the next movie. I'm glad they went in a different direction.
Norman Paperman
Footballguy
Went and saw it a second time this morning. I think it ages well.
I still don't love it - but I like it a bit more than after the first viewing. I also tried to see it through the prism of new viewers watching their 2nd Star Wars movie in the theater. I asked my kids about it, and about what they liked, and what characters they liked. They enjoyed it very much, and liked characters with whom I had no connection - Finn, and to a lesser extent Poe. My older daughter liked Rey, Kylo Ren, Leia, Finn, and Poe. My younger daughter has an old soul, she likes Leia, Luke, Rey, BB8, Kylo Ren - they both still see the good in Kylo Ren I suppose...
As a stand alone movie, I think it ultimately tells a good story. Its not how I might tell it, or how I think the trilogy should flow, but it did a good job of moving us from point A to point B. Even the Casino trip did not bother me as much this time. I have a better understanding of the "Bomber" scene - in terms of Poe's evolution.
I think part of my initial reluctance stemmed from a couple of things - it got great reviews (and I did not think it lived up to that billing), and trying to fit it into the original trilogy template (and this trilogy is trying to be its own event, drawing in new fans on its own right).
I think Rey has been the best protagonist of the three trilogies - she is far more equipped to carry on the Jedi legacy than Luke was at this stage. I do wish they had dealt with Carrie Fischer's death in this movie - but she had two touching send-offs with Laura Dern and then with Mark Hamill. Even the Mary Poppins scene did not bother me - I knew it was coming, not sure how else they were supposed to rescue her - and it was important in showing that Kylo Ren could not pull the trigger. So, it was what it was.
I still don't love it - but I like it a bit more than after the first viewing. I also tried to see it through the prism of new viewers watching their 2nd Star Wars movie in the theater. I asked my kids about it, and about what they liked, and what characters they liked. They enjoyed it very much, and liked characters with whom I had no connection - Finn, and to a lesser extent Poe. My older daughter liked Rey, Kylo Ren, Leia, Finn, and Poe. My younger daughter has an old soul, she likes Leia, Luke, Rey, BB8, Kylo Ren - they both still see the good in Kylo Ren I suppose...
As a stand alone movie, I think it ultimately tells a good story. Its not how I might tell it, or how I think the trilogy should flow, but it did a good job of moving us from point A to point B. Even the Casino trip did not bother me as much this time. I have a better understanding of the "Bomber" scene - in terms of Poe's evolution.
I think part of my initial reluctance stemmed from a couple of things - it got great reviews (and I did not think it lived up to that billing), and trying to fit it into the original trilogy template (and this trilogy is trying to be its own event, drawing in new fans on its own right).
I think Rey has been the best protagonist of the three trilogies - she is far more equipped to carry on the Jedi legacy than Luke was at this stage. I do wish they had dealt with Carrie Fischer's death in this movie - but she had two touching send-offs with Laura Dern and then with Mark Hamill. Even the Mary Poppins scene did not bother me - I knew it was coming, not sure how else they were supposed to rescue her - and it was important in showing that Kylo Ren could not pull the trigger. So, it was what it was.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Capella
Footballguy
39. Just googled him. Not what I would consider an important character for me to remember.
Goes to my point though that most people seeing these movies aren't like you at all.
Norman Paperman
Footballguy
One of the things I still did not catch was how Benicio Del Toro's character knew about the plans to send the shuttles to the base - when would he have learned that to trade to the First Order?
need2know
Footballguy
need2know
Footballguy
i knew who biggs was but he had like 2 minutes of screen time in 8 star wars movies. not important at all
Insein
Footballguy
Didn't say they had to match it. Why would they copy it? That'd be dumb. I said they needed to build some emotion behind it. A reason to give a damn. I guess most people don't need that then.
To me Kylo is going to be a good guy at the end. He couldn't kill his mom. He's about 50/50 on wanting to go light to get some of Rey. And in general he's kind of bad at this whole supreme leader stuff. Like seriously he was what 17 when he trained with Luke and now he's like 25 and leading a supposed galactic spanning government while losing his #### over a hologram? He's in way over his head.
Insein
Footballguy
GregR
Footballguy
Poe threw his tantrum upon finding out and got removed from the bridge. He immediately told Finn and Rose over the radio as they were flying there in the ship with Del Toro.
Insein
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I don't think this movie did much in the way of making Kylo look any more like a badass. It's fine to have a bad guy conflicted, but it really seemed to go a lot on that direction. Maybe if he was manipulating Rey the whole time or I thought it was his master plan all along to take out Snoke, but that wasn't the case. I think it just became that way when Snoke told him he was a POS. I just didn't get much emotion from that scene in the way that maybe the end of Jedi handled a similar scene. It's not that Johnson went in a different direction, it's that I personally didn't feel any emotion to the scene. Then they just take out henchmen and then mind battle over the light saber. They do a great job with the big battles, but IMO they are whiffing a big on the one on one battles and the emotion needed for some of those battles to be great.
need2know
Footballguy
whats weird to me is there is no other bad guy left in the movie? i agree with you that it seems kylo could go back to the light but if he does who the hell is left to fight?
Hang 10
Footballguy
I think he's referring to people that have already seen it 4 times.
Scoresman
Footballguy
The end of Jedi was the end of a trilogy where I would expect much more emotion in a scene with the finality it had. This was just the second of a trilogy. I felt plenty of emotion in both Rey and Kylo struggling with their loyalties in that scene, and now it's setting up to be a pretty epic final scene between them in Ep. 9.
It's actually pretty cool when you think that Kylo has lost his master and has to deal with running an empire, while Ren also lost her master and has to deal with rebuilding the Jedi.
Norman Paperman
Footballguy
Not exactly - Kylo will likely be the primary bad guy, but there was almost a throw away line in the movie where Luke said Kylo took some of the kids training to be Jedi with him after he burned the temple.
Now, one certainly could have been Rey, and Kylo was simply stashing the kids around the galaxy.
But, its also possible that he has a secret training ground and it becomes a collective BG effort in 10-15 years against Rey and her new band of Jedi...
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I agree. Was not a fan of Hux's character. I think it was the actor they used for him. Just came off as a weak man.
need2know
Footballguy
he hates kylo. the looks he was giving kylo at the end kind of made me think he might turn his forces on him. but agree the hux character in general pretty much sucks
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
The fact that you don't remember him says as much as your age. We're not different because I've read up on the EU - I haven't. We're different because Star Wars holds a place in my life history that's much more central than it does in yours.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Amen...what if Snoke only appears as powerful as he does because Luke abdicated and there was no real resistance until Rey came along.
Kumerica
Footballguy
Personally, I love TLJ. I think it opened up the possibilities for every SW movie going forward.
Also, I love that the whacky, immature duo of Kylo and Hux will command the First Order. They'll run that empire right into the ground, with or without a rebellion. It'll be fun!
Also, I love that the whacky, immature duo of Kylo and Hux will command the First Order. They'll run that empire right into the ground, with or without a rebellion. It'll be fun!
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Cool, and there is the big difference in our reactions to the movie. To me some of the space battles were great, but I didn't feel much of their struggles or believed for a second that Rey was going to turn. Wanting to know who your parents are isn't a big enough motivator to turn to the Dark Side for me.
Todem
Footballguy
A few things. I had zero issues with the Porgs. They were cute and funny and not over done at all.
Return Of The Jedi depsite the Ewoks....and for the record as a 13 year old kid seeing that......I had zero issues with it. As you get older it get's kinda corny. But they still crack me up. One minute they were about to eat Han, Luke and Chewie like a pork roast and the next they were part of the tribe after C3PO told the rebel story to them.
But the entire Han rescue piece, the Vader/Luke/Confrontation, the final battle...even the battle on Endor and the speed bikes. So much great stuff in ROTJ. And yeah they were selling toys. But they were selling toys from day one. I bought (and still have all of them in great condition BTW) or should I say my parents bought me all the figures, ships, play sets etc. After Empire I stopped. But Star Wars has always been about merchandise from the moment they knew they had a franchise after the original film.
Using an unbiased eye......The original Trilogy smokes The Last Jedi on all fronts. Where as The Force Awakens and Rogue One to me are right there in the covnersation of great Star Wars films.
They made a sub par film here IMO. How anyone who adored The Force Awakens can like the story telling and complete lack of character development of Finn, Poe and to a lesser degree Rey in TLJ....puzzling. Even though I always go into these kinds of movies with little expectation and no pre-conceived notions, they really #### the bed on this one overall. I did not feel invested after feeling that way after TFA.
Just a strange direction IMO they took with the characters and the film just feels all over the place. Maybe after my second viewing I will find more to like.....but damn I was pumped and could hardly wait to see it again when I saw TFE and R1....like super wow....Star Wars kicks ### again.
Not so after this film.
Last edited by a moderator:
