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Star Wars The Last Jedi Episode 8 thread: this thread sucks, you should avoid it even after you've seen the movie (1 Viewer)

Everyone def won't agree but I'm with the group that likes Drivers Kylo Ren.  A new kind of villian.  He's been the one constant positive in both new movies imo.  And he was better in the the last Jedi.  Prob more due to the evolution of his character than his acting, but it's not his fault the director and writers have taken some questionable directions with what they are doing with the story.  He's been money.

 
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Surprised to read that. Kylo Ren the character I guess isn't for everyone, but Adam Driver I thought has killed the acting. If Driver had played Anakin in the prequels similarly to how he's playing Kylo I think a lot of us wouldn't have dismissed them so easily. 


much better than Force Awakens.  Not on Rogue One’s level.
Saw it this afternoon.  These two posts are a good approximation of where I'm at.

 
Pretty good summary by Drew Magary, imo

This is a not review. I’m not here to give you a thumbs up or thumbs down for the new Star Wars movie because, like me, you almost certainly don’t give a #### what some ####### critic has to say. No, I am at a level of Star Wars fanboyism that goes past mere evaluation, wherein I cherish the ritual of seeing these movies but also cherish, on a strange level, the opportunity to nitpick them to death. And in The Last Jedi, Rian Johnson has made probably the weakest of the Disney Star Wars movies, but he also made a movie that is also WORTH nitpicking. So let’s be fanboys and do that now. Please note this post is ALL SPOILERS. Don’t read the rest of this if you ain’t seen it.

EDITOR’S PICK

Culture

Star Wars: The Last Jedi: The Spoiler-Free Review

Got it?

You sure?

Are you POSITIVE?

Because I’m giving you a chance to leave now before you see anything you don’t wanna see.

Still here?

Okay, let’s do this.

GOOD: Porgs. Star Wars has an iffy track record when it comes to introducing characters intended strictly as kiddie bait. But the Porgs were funny and they also looked DELICIOUS. I would have eaten the #### out of a Porg in front of another Porg. No hesitation. I would smoke one of those bad boys and gnaw on it like a quail.

BAD: Poe Dameron. You want a hot take? Here it is: Poe sucks. I love Oscar Isaac and would watch him in anything, but the more you see of Poe Dameron out of a cockpit, the less interesting he becomes. They gave him one funny moment at the outset of the flick and then took away most of that hotshot charm after that. I only wanna see Poe executing deft skid turns in his X-wing, blowing crap up, and then giving me an Abrams one-liner as he speeds away.

GOOD: Snoke. Snoke was arguably the lamest part of The Force Awakens, especially since his name is so dumb. But when I finally got to see him resplendent in his gold bathrobe and nasty teeth, all my little fanboy fears went away. He was a proper sleazebag, so much so that I was kinda dismayed when he got chopped in half. Good villains are in short supply. Ask Justice League.

BAD: Leia somehow surviving getting sucked into deep space. The #### was that? That’s not how the Force works. If you’re gonna kill a character, kill them. Don’t have them miraculously Force Breathe their way into surviving the great black void. IT’S LIKE THE FORCE DOESN’T MEAN ANYTHING ANYMORE. Everyone knows that Carrie Fisher passed away prior to the film’s release, so toying with her demise seemed weird on a lot of levels.

GOOD: Yoda. I cannot overstate how badly the Prequels ####ed up Yoda, turning him into a somersaulting lightsaber monkey and having him backwards talk every ####### sentence. So they brought him back as a Force Ghost and made him more like the original Puppet Yoda, with the old man walk and weird stray hairs, and that was nice. I cried. I also cried when Luke saw R2-D2. Oh, and I cried whenever Rey's Theme kicked in. I cried many times. Shut up.

BAD: The dialogue. Given that J.J. Abrams enlisted Lawrence Kasdan as his script wizard for The Force Awakens, it was surprising to see so much clumsy exposition in the follow up. I swear Rey told Luke that the Resistance needed his help, like, eight times. And the entire flashback stuff with Luke and Kylo Ren could have been shown in much greater detail, instead of just having both sides awkwardly narrate snippets of it. I need a whole movie out of Luke pulling an Obi-Wan and ####### it all up. That was where the gold was, and they whiffed on it.

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GOOD: Mark Hamill. Given that Hamill hasn’t been allowed to headline a major studio movie in over three decades, it wasn’t a guarantee that he’d be up for this. But not only was he pretty good, they also let Luke be funny! I like Sassy Luke, hucking lightsabers and what not. They should have made him sassier in the originals.

BAD: Luke’s weird death. When Luke fights Kylo Ren on the red salt planet and you realize he’s not actually there, I thought they were going the full Sixth Sense and make him a Force Ghost, meaning he’d been dead the whole movie. Which would have been cool! But that isn’t what happened. Instead, Luke wasn’t there because he could, like, Force-throw himself from eight solar systems away. And then he just disappeared into the beyond after that. I was sitting there like, “Wait, did he die?” That’s probably not the reaction you want when you kill off one of the most famous characters in movie history. I get giving Luke a peaceful ending, but no one told me a Jedi could up and die if he felt like it.

They also killed off General Ackbar in a strange, cursory moment where most of the audience was still reeling from Carrie Fisher’s trick death. In general, this was not a movie that handled big moments well.

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GOOD: Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley. How ####### great are these two? If anything, I approve of the greater message of The Last Jedi, which is that we’re moving on, and that this will probably be—spare a few obligatory fan service moments—the last of the new Star Wars movies to be about the old Star Wars movies. This series belongs to Ridley and Driver now, and that’s a good thing, because both of them are terrific. I wanted them to bone! How could I want that? HE KILLED HAN SOLO, MAN! Whenever those two were on screen, the movie kicked barrels of ###. The throne room scene alone justified the price of admission. The guards had, like, LIGHT AXES!

BAD: Most of the new, non-Porg characters. Laura Dern and Benicio Del Toro are both wonderful actors, and yet both of them were stuck in this movie essentially to act as needless roadblocks for everyone else. I swear I thought Del Toro’s character would reveal that he had also a red brooch thingie and was actually the master codebreaker that Finn and Rose were trying to find. But no. No, he was just his character in the Heineken ads for some reason.

GOOD: The milk. OH GOD THE ####### MILK! How gross was that? I am ready for all the alien milk memes to come outta that moment. I scouted this movie for my kids (mostly because I wanted to watch it alone) and I’m gonna have to cover the five-year-old’s eyes when the quad-nipple scene comes on.

BAD: Finn almost dying. I really thought they were gonna kill off John Boyega, and I would have been extremely mad about that, because I love Finn, and because they had already stranded him in a CASINO PLANET subplot that ended up being a red herring (which, on some level, is fine… every Star Wars movie features a scrappy band of rebels infiltrating an area they shouldn’t to go turn off something, so it’s okay to see them fail at that for once). Then they made his thing with Rose, who was otherwise delightfully spunky, into a love story even though nothing in the movie really foreshadowed that moment.

Also, every Star Wars movie also features characters surviving despite insane amounts of gunfire and ship crashes going on around them, but The Last Jedi really stretched it into absurdity. One second, we see Rose and Finn surrounded by an army of Stormtroopers. The next, ALL of them are dead while Rose and Finn are just groovy, leaving Finn to go one on one with Captain Phasma, who was wasted for the second straight movie. [nerdlinger voice] Am I simply to believe they avoided all that shrapnel?

GOOD: BB8. He ####### rules. You could make the whole movie out of BB-8 and Chewbacca and I’d be fine. Knowing Disney, that spinoff is already in the works.

BAD: Kylo’s helmet is gone! I know they had to get rid of the helmet because there’s no practical reason for Kylo Ren to wear it… but it was SO COOL, man. And it made his voice all deep and scary! I was hoping Ren would get mortally wounded in this movie and end up having to wear and even COOLER helmet with a voice thingie, but no.

GOOD: All the spaceship porn. I require very little to walk away from a Star Wars movie happy. Hit a few familiar beats with characters and sound effects and I’ll gladly fork over my dough. And gimme LOTS of ship porn. I cannot get enough of strange polygons suddenly appearing on screen from hyperspace. That’s my heroin.

And I needed it at times for this one. Like I said, The Last Jedi was clearly a movie about leaving the past behind and creating something new. That was not an easy trick for Johnson to pull off, and I wouldn’t say he was 100% successful. This wasn’t anywhere near as crisp a movie as The Force Awakens, and it was saddled with a great many subplots that only served to highlight the economy of The Empire Strikes Back, which remains the apex of Star Wars bridge movies and the franchise as a whole.

But this trilogy still has Driver, and it’s still got Ridley, and it’s still got the Porgs. So I’m still wrapped around Kathleen Kennedy’s finger for now, and likely forever. If I sound like I didn't like The Last Jedi, it's only because I love parsing every frame of these things, and I always will.

Unless they overdo it on the alien milk. That might be a dealbreaker one day.
 
Pretty good summary by Drew Magary, imo

This is a not review. I’m not here to give you a thumbs up or thumbs down for the new Star Wars movie because, like me, you almost certainly don’t give a #### what some ####### critic has to say. No, I am at a level of Star Wars fanboyism that goes past mere evaluation, wherein I cherish the ritual of seeing these movies but also cherish, on a strange level, the opportunity to nitpick them to death. And in The Last Jedi, Rian Johnson has made probably the weakest of the Disney Star Wars movies, but he also made a movie that is also WORTH nitpicking. So let’s be fanboys and do that now. Please note this post is ALL SPOILERS. Don’t read the rest of this if you ain’t seen it.

EDITOR’S PICK

Culture

Star Wars: The Last Jedi: The Spoiler-Free Review

Got it?

You sure?

Are you POSITIVE?

Because I’m giving you a chance to leave now before you see anything you don’t wanna see.

Still here?

Okay, let’s do this.

GOOD: Porgs. Star Wars has an iffy track record when it comes to introducing characters intended strictly as kiddie bait. But the Porgs were funny and they also looked DELICIOUS. I would have eaten the #### out of a Porg in front of another Porg. No hesitation. I would smoke one of those bad boys and gnaw on it like a quail.

BAD: Poe Dameron. You want a hot take? Here it is: Poe sucks. I love Oscar Isaac and would watch him in anything, but the more you see of Poe Dameron out of a cockpit, the less interesting he becomes. They gave him one funny moment at the outset of the flick and then took away most of that hotshot charm after that. I only wanna see Poe executing deft skid turns in his X-wing, blowing crap up, and then giving me an Abrams one-liner as he speeds away.

GOOD: Snoke. Snoke was arguably the lamest part of The Force Awakens, especially since his name is so dumb. But when I finally got to see him resplendent in his gold bathrobe and nasty teeth, all my little fanboy fears went away. He was a proper sleazebag, so much so that I was kinda dismayed when he got chopped in half. Good villains are in short supply. Ask Justice League.

BAD: Leia somehow surviving getting sucked into deep space. The #### was that? That’s not how the Force works. If you’re gonna kill a character, kill them. Don’t have them miraculously Force Breathe their way into surviving the great black void. IT’S LIKE THE FORCE DOESN’T MEAN ANYTHING ANYMORE. Everyone knows that Carrie Fisher passed away prior to the film’s release, so toying with her demise seemed weird on a lot of levels.

GOOD: Yoda. I cannot overstate how badly the Prequels ####ed up Yoda, turning him into a somersaulting lightsaber monkey and having him backwards talk every ####### sentence. So they brought him back as a Force Ghost and made him more like the original Puppet Yoda, with the old man walk and weird stray hairs, and that was nice. I cried. I also cried when Luke saw R2-D2. Oh, and I cried whenever Rey's Theme kicked in. I cried many times. Shut up.

BAD: The dialogue. Given that J.J. Abrams enlisted Lawrence Kasdan as his script wizard for The Force Awakens, it was surprising to see so much clumsy exposition in the follow up. I swear Rey told Luke that the Resistance needed his help, like, eight times. And the entire flashback stuff with Luke and Kylo Ren could have been shown in much greater detail, instead of just having both sides awkwardly narrate snippets of it. I need a whole movie out of Luke pulling an Obi-Wan and ####### it all up. That was where the gold was, and they whiffed on it.

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The Last Jedi's John Boyega Goes Undercover on Reddit, Twitter & Wikipedia

GOOD: Mark Hamill. Given that Hamill hasn’t been allowed to headline a major studio movie in over three decades, it wasn’t a guarantee that he’d be up for this. But not only was he pretty good, they also let Luke be funny! I like Sassy Luke, hucking lightsabers and what not. They should have made him sassier in the originals.

BAD: Luke’s weird death. When Luke fights Kylo Ren on the red salt planet and you realize he’s not actually there, I thought they were going the full Sixth Sense and make him a Force Ghost, meaning he’d been dead the whole movie. Which would have been cool! But that isn’t what happened. Instead, Luke wasn’t there because he could, like, Force-throw himself from eight solar systems away. And then he just disappeared into the beyond after that. I was sitting there like, “Wait, did he die?” That’s probably not the reaction you want when you kill off one of the most famous characters in movie history. I get giving Luke a peaceful ending, but no one told me a Jedi could up and die if he felt like it.

They also killed off General Ackbar in a strange, cursory moment where most of the audience was still reeling from Carrie Fisher’s trick death. In general, this was not a movie that handled big moments well.

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GOOD: Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley. How ####### great are these two? If anything, I approve of the greater message of The Last Jedi, which is that we’re moving on, and that this will probably be—spare a few obligatory fan service moments—the last of the new Star Wars movies to be about the old Star Wars movies. This series belongs to Ridley and Driver now, and that’s a good thing, because both of them are terrific. I wanted them to bone! How could I want that? HE KILLED HAN SOLO, MAN! Whenever those two were on screen, the movie kicked barrels of ###. The throne room scene alone justified the price of admission. The guards had, like, LIGHT AXES!

BAD: Most of the new, non-Porg characters. Laura Dern and Benicio Del Toro are both wonderful actors, and yet both of them were stuck in this movie essentially to act as needless roadblocks for everyone else. I swear I thought Del Toro’s character would reveal that he had also a red brooch thingie and was actually the master codebreaker that Finn and Rose were trying to find. But no. No, he was just his character in the Heineken ads for some reason.

GOOD: The milk. OH GOD THE ####### MILK! How gross was that? I am ready for all the alien milk memes to come outta that moment. I scouted this movie for my kids (mostly because I wanted to watch it alone) and I’m gonna have to cover the five-year-old’s eyes when the quad-nipple scene comes on.

BAD: Finn almost dying. I really thought they were gonna kill off John Boyega, and I would have been extremely mad about that, because I love Finn, and because they had already stranded him in a CASINO PLANET subplot that ended up being a red herring (which, on some level, is fine… every Star Wars movie features a scrappy band of rebels infiltrating an area they shouldn’t to go turn off something, so it’s okay to see them fail at that for once). Then they made his thing with Rose, who was otherwise delightfully spunky, into a love story even though nothing in the movie really foreshadowed that moment.

Also, every Star Wars movie also features characters surviving despite insane amounts of gunfire and ship crashes going on around them, but The Last Jedi really stretched it into absurdity. One second, we see Rose and Finn surrounded by an army of Stormtroopers. The next, ALL of them are dead while Rose and Finn are just groovy, leaving Finn to go one on one with Captain Phasma, who was wasted for the second straight movie. [nerdlinger voice] Am I simply to believe they avoided all that shrapnel?

GOOD: BB8. He ####### rules. You could make the whole movie out of BB-8 and Chewbacca and I’d be fine. Knowing Disney, that spinoff is already in the works.

BAD: Kylo’s helmet is gone! I know they had to get rid of the helmet because there’s no practical reason for Kylo Ren to wear it… but it was SO COOL, man. And it made his voice all deep and scary! I was hoping Ren would get mortally wounded in this movie and end up having to wear and even COOLER helmet with a voice thingie, but no.

GOOD: All the spaceship porn. I require very little to walk away from a Star Wars movie happy. Hit a few familiar beats with characters and sound effects and I’ll gladly fork over my dough. And gimme LOTS of ship porn. I cannot get enough of strange polygons suddenly appearing on screen from hyperspace. That’s my heroin.

And I needed it at times for this one. Like I said, The Last Jedi was clearly a movie about leaving the past behind and creating something new. That was not an easy trick for Johnson to pull off, and I wouldn’t say he was 100% successful. This wasn’t anywhere near as crisp a movie as The Force Awakens, and it was saddled with a great many subplots that only served to highlight the economy of The Empire Strikes Back, which remains the apex of Star Wars bridge movies and the franchise as a whole.

But this trilogy still has Driver, and it’s still got Ridley, and it’s still got the Porgs. So I’m still wrapped around Kathleen Kennedy’s finger for now, and likely forever. If I sound like I didn't like The Last Jedi, it's only because I love parsing every frame of these things, and I always will.

Unless they overdo it on the alien milk. That might be a dealbreaker one day.
Lol.  That #### was funny as hell and I agreed with almost all of it.

 
Good - Rey, Snoke, Leia, Luke, Poe

Bad - Kylo, Fin, 

Worst scene - Leia’s Space walk

Best scene - rebel cruiser colliding at light speed through the bad guys was bad a$$

 
Those of you who complain about Kylo Ren (and Snoke's death) and also complain about the new movies being too similar to the old ones are frauds.

 
Those of you who complain about Kylo Ren (and Snoke's death) and also complain about the new movies being too similar to the old ones are frauds.
a sucky actor is a sucky actor.  This movie is a better Kylo performance away from being really, really good.

 
This is going to sound way more condescending that it's meant, but I really feel like anyone who doesn't like Adam Driver as Kylo Ren doesn't really get Kylo Ren.  If you don't like the character Kylo Ren you're still wrong but I get it, but Driver has nailed that role.

 
Driver is awesome. Where I seem is get crosswise with the consensus is Mark Hammil. I just felt like he was trying to hard every time he was on screen. Like while he was reciting his lines, he had an internal monologue that went something like “I need to make this scene count. I need to make every scene count! I’ve been waiting 30 years for this. Make sure you convey anguish. Make your eyes well up Mark. You can do it!”

 
Driver is awesome. Where I seem is get crosswise with the consensus is Mark Hammil. I just felt like he was trying to hard every time he was on screen. Like while he was reciting his lines, he had an internal monologue that went something like “I need to make this scene count. I need to make every scene count! I’ve been waiting 30 years for this. Make sure you convey anguish. Make your eyes well up Mark. You can do it!”
It worked for me with his character.  Hammil's last stand = Luke's last stand.  

 
Kylo/driver Is the best part of this stuff and the glue holding ignore together 

one thought I’ve had is, are we presuming a trilogy here or is this just now an ongoing series. There’s not a lot of meat on the bone to sew up a trilogy.  But if we are just in ongoing serial mode now, I guess the loose end matter less

 
This is going to sound way more condescending that it's meant, but I really feel like anyone who doesn't like Adam Driver as Kylo Ren doesn't really get Kylo Ren.  If you don't like the character Kylo Ren you're still wrong but I get it, but Driver has nailed that role.
This is where I'm at. I get (but disagree with) how you could dislike the character Kylo Ren. But I don't get how you could actually think Driver's performance is bad. That's just objectively incorrect, even if you don't like what he brings to the movies. He's acting his ### off.

 
Driver is awesome. Where I seem is get crosswise with the consensus is Mark Hammil. I just felt like he was trying to hard every time he was on screen. Like while he was reciting his lines, he had an internal monologue that went something like “I need to make this scene count. I need to make every scene count! I’ve been waiting 30 years for this. Make sure you convey anguish. Make your eyes well up Mark. You can do it!”
One thing I’ll take from hamil,  and I think this is on Johnson and perhaps the studio undermining him, but the wardrobe did him no favors. He looked like a large midget with a short trunk and tiny arms. You could have worked with this with wardrobe, as there wasn’t much appearance of him being undersized in the first trilogy 

 
One thing I’ll take from hamil,  and I think this is on Johnson and perhaps the studio undermining him, but the wardrobe did him no favors. He looked like a large midget with a short trunk and tiny arms. You could have worked with this with wardrobe, as there wasn’t much appearance of him being undersized in the first trilogy 
He did look tiny.

 
This is going to sound way more condescending that it's meant, but I really feel like anyone who doesn't like Adam Driver as Kylo Ren doesn't really get Kylo Ren.  If you don't like the character Kylo Ren you're still wrong but I get it, but Driver has nailed that role.
what about him don’t i get?

 
This is where I'm at. I get (but disagree with) how you could dislike the character Kylo Ren. But I don't get how you could actually think Driver's performance is bad. That's just objectively incorrect, even if you don't like what he brings to the movies. He's acting his ### off.
objectively incorrect?  based on what?  it’s not possible for someone to be trying really hard but still be bad?

 
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Page 2 already??

Is this a reflection of the state of the core Star Wars franchise, the ffa, or the nfl?

 
Why is everyone so surprised by Luke's disappearing death?  Yoda died the same exact way and was equally a WTF? moment.  How does everyone forget that?

 
Was talking about this with my kids. I told them I knew something was up when Luke arrived on salt land because he appeared to have used just for men to get rid of his gray.

Did anyone else notice that or did I make that up.

** Not saying I knew what the jedi trick was, just that I thought something was different

 
Was talking about this with my kids. I told them I knew something was up when Luke arrived on salt land because he appeared to have used just for men to get rid of his gray.

Did anyone else notice that or did I make that up.

** Not saying I knew what the jedi trick was, just that I thought something was different
He was all cleaned up.  I thought his hair was shorter.

 
Was talking about this with my kids. I told them I knew something was up when Luke arrived on salt land because he appeared to have used just for men to get rid of his gray.

Did anyone else notice that or did I make that up.

** Not saying I knew what the jedi trick was, just that I thought something was different
Definitely noticed

 
What does everyone think of Rey's character and the acting?  I think she's great but I've seen a few comments on social media that say her acting is terrible.  Am I just blinded by her good looks?

 
What does everyone think of Rey's character and the acting?  I think she's great but I've seen a few comments on social media that say her acting is terrible.  Am I just blinded by her good looks?
She's ok.  Kinda reminds me of daenerys from got.  Great to look at.  A bit questionable acting ability.  

 
Saw it last night. Liked it okay I guess. Definitely didn't love it.

It has an awesome look to it but there are way too many plot conveniences and coincidences. 

The stuff with Rey/Ren/Luke I liked a lot (except for Luke being a quitter).

The stuff with the Resistance fleet under siege and the side mission to Monte Carlo was pretty dumb. 

 
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Hawkeye21 said:
Why is everyone so surprised by Luke's disappearing death?  Yoda died the same exact way and was equally a WTF? moment.  How does everyone forget that?
The WTF was the fact he died using the force.....not of old age. I actually liked the whole idea of what Luke did. Pure all powerful Jedi Master troll job on Kylo.

And the best line of the entire movie “See you around kid” was perfect. 

 
The WTF was the fact he died using the force.....not of old age. I actually liked the whole idea of what Luke did. Pure all powerful Jedi Master troll job on Kylo.

And the best line of the entire movie “See you around kid” was perfect. 
I can't remember off the top of my head but was there any reference to Yoda dying of old age other that us all knowing that he was old.  Even Family Guy made fun of that scene when they made their Star Wars episode.  How old is Luke in The Last Jedi?

 
bigbottom said:
Driver is awesome. Where I seem is get crosswise with the consensus is Mark Hammil. I just felt like he was trying to hard every time he was on screen. Like while he was reciting his lines, he had an internal monologue that went something like “I need to make this scene count. I need to make every scene count! I’ve been waiting 30 years for this. Make sure you convey anguish. Make your eyes well up Mark. You can do it!”
,seriously?

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Hmm...  I think she's been pretty good.  Much better than Mark Hamil's in A New Hope.
 Goodposting. I don't think she looks all that stunning. A little butch for my tastes. But she can act imo.

 
I can't remember off the top of my head but was there any reference to Yoda dying of old age other that us all knowing that he was old.  Even Family Guy made fun of that scene when they made their Star Wars episode.  How old is Luke in The Last Jedi?
It's implied in the conversation with Luke in ROTJ. 

Yoda: Soon will I rest, yes, forever sleep. Earned it I have. 

Luke: Master Yoda, you can't die. 

Yoda: Ah, strong am I with the Force, but not that strong. Twilight is upon me, and soon, night must fall. That is the way of things. The way of the Force.

 
I can't remember off the top of my head but was there any reference to Yoda dying of old age other that us all knowing that he was old.  Even Family Guy made fun of that scene when they made their Star Wars episode.  How old is Luke in The Last Jedi?
Luke's a different race from Yoda. You may have missed that... ;)

 
Luke's a different race from Yoda. You may have missed that... ;)
Yeah, I get that.  Was just curious how old Luke is suppose to be.  The combination of his age and the stunt he pulled is most likely the reason for him passing away.  To me it was very similar to when Yoda died so I don't see a need for all the complaining.

Also, if you are alright with things being implied in the original trilogy why are so many up in arms with so many things being implied with the new movies.  I see so many complaints with the new movies that could be complained about it the original movies yet the originals are untouchable.  It's like a double standard.

 
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Ok 2 new thoughts to kick around:

1. Did Kylo Ren decline to kill Leia early on because he had good in him, or did he realize that Snoke was in his head and wanted to set himself up to look weak in order to gain a strategic advantage over him?

2. Is this a parallel universe from the OT? Discarding the extensive EU cannon could support this theory and explain a lot of the idiosyncrasies that some people are hung up about. 

 
Wasnt there discussion in one of the movies about a jedi who had cheated death and learned how to live forever
Yeah. It was in ep3 I think. The Emperor tells Anakin the story of Darth Plageous.(sp?) The opera scene.

 
Ok 2 new thoughts to kick around:

1. Did Kylo Ren decline to kill Leia early on because he had good in him, or did he realize that Snoke was in his head and wanted to set himself up to look weak in order to gain a strategic advantage over him?

2. Is this a parallel universe from the OT? Discarding the extensive EU cannon could support this theory and explain a lot of the idiosyncrasies that some people are hung up about. 
1. There's still good in him. I think that's the whole point. Nobody is all Light or all Dark. It's our choices that make the difference as to which one is our stronger side. That's Luke's Force philosophy.

2. No, IMO

 
Also, if you are alright with things being implied in the original trilogy why are so many up in arms with so many things being implied with the new movies.  I see so many complaints with the new movies that could be complained about it the original movies yet the originals are untouchable.  It's like a double standard.
When most people saw the original trilogy - they were kids, and details were not important.  Now, details are serious businesstm.

Having said that, I find myself looking at things more critically - it was not until I asked my kids about the movie that I realized its still just a fun romp and worrying about details takes away from the fun. 

In 20+ years, my kids will probably be taking kids to see the 5th trilogy and wondering why those movies are not more like this trilogy.

 

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